Skip to comments.Hitler Baptized as a Mormon
Posted on 03/04/2012 7:48:55 PM PST by Ben Barrack
As the Nevada Republican Caucus returns were coming in last month, CNN's John King referred to Mitt Romney as Governor Mormon. Without correcting himself, he used the word Mormon four times in nine seconds. While some may argue it was an innocent slip, others will say it was Freudian in nature.
A short time later, King's network did a story on a bizarre Mormon practice that involves posthumously baptizing non-Mormons by proxy. In the report, the parents of Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal were identified as having been subjected to such a practice. Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel, who was interviewed for the CNN story, unhappily responded to revelations that he himself had been placed on such a list.
In its report, CNN cited Helen Radkey as the person who discovered these unusual baptisms. Radkey is a former Mormon who claims that, Jewish Holocaust names are regularly going into the Mormon database. The report concluded with a reference to Romney actually participating in such proxy baptisms. The message was clear but subtle; Romney is part of this.
Radkey is an extremely key figure, not so much for what she provided to CNN for that story but what she still has yet to provide.
About one week later, the Independent, MSNBC, and Yahoo News all reported that the iconic diarist and heroine, Nazi-era Anne Frank had been posthumously baptized nine times by the Mormon church. Yahoo News cleverly segued from this story to an unrelated story about a Romney comment during a Republican debate, in what appeared to be an attempt to subtly connect the two stories.
Comedy Central's Stephen Colbert went even further by inviting a Jewish intern onto his set during his program and asked him to hold a hot dog while Cobert cut off the tip with a...
(Excerpt) Read more at redcounty.com ...
OOPS!...must remember to read the thread before posting. Oh well, it doesn’t hurt to have a duplicate now and then.
I dont expect you to get the practice if you continue to mock it. Seek first to understand...
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Oh, I understand the practice just fine, which is exactly WHY I mock it. Been there done that.
Like many other of their doctrines, Mormons take one verse out of context from the Bible and build an entire unbiblical teaching on it.
Would you like to discuss the real point and context of 1 Cor 15:29?
Here is a link to get you started. And welcome to FR, perhaps you will be like some other Mormons here on FR who ended up leaving Mormonism and coming to the Christ of the Bible.
We dont seek after signs. In fact, there are warnings against it.
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You are correct that there are biblical warning against seeking signs. However, Mormons DO incessantly seek after signs. Moroni’s promise is a good example and it is also unbiblical.
There is nothing in the Bible that says we are to pray to know the truth.
Finally, Joseph Smith’s entire history is FULL of his seeking of signs.
Everyone read this link of Blue’s, it is article after article about how special lds are because they baptize dead people (no it is not the same as seeing dead people) (and no it is not Biblical either).
So one liberal columnist isn’t offended, while 90% of practicing Jews ARE offended and you believe the liberal? How Mormon of you.
And, did you notice the same old mormon ploy...blame the messenger..last paragraph about Helen Radkey.
The article on the baptism of Jews and the mormons excuses are all doing one good thing...they are keeping the ridiculous cultic dead-dunking front and center in the minds of voters!
I’m getting my rock and hat ready.
NOt SOME folks reading this thread may NOT know to what you refer....
"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."---Joseph Knight's journal.
"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.
"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.
In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:
"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."
"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)
In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:"When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12June 15, 1879, pp. 190-91.)
Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"("A New Witness for Christ in America,"Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)
"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.
Wait a minute. Does this mean if Anne Frank's rejected becoming a Mormon nine times, but Hitler accepted on his single offer, Hitler is "saved" Mormon-style but Anne Frank isn't?
And nine times? (Talk about overkill -- not a word far off the literal application here...given that Mormons believe those who accept "salvation" post death don't get to live forether with Heavenly Father.)
(So much for the Mormon heaven being actual heaven!)
Wait a minute, Ben. Why do you make the bad assumption that Romney's Mormonism -- baptism of the dead & all -- is somehow "unrelated" to his political run?
What? Are you trying to hermetically seal his other-worldly worldviews from public inspection? If so, why?
Mormon baptism of the dead is no obscure tucked-away belief or practice.
Here...allow yourself to become more educated on where Mormons see baptism of the dead ranking amongst all their other teachings:
Lds founding prophet Joseph Smith:
The GREATEST RESPONSIBILITY IN THIS WORLD that God has placed upon us is to SEEK AFTER OUR DEAD. (Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 356)
Lds prophet Wilford Woodruff, who had the Mormon power to begin turning off the valve of polygamy:
There is hardly any principle the Lord has revealed that I have rejoiced more in than in the redemption of our dead (Teachings of Presidents: Wilford Woodruff, pp. 192-193)
LDS scripture: It is the baptism for the dead. For we without them cannot be made perfect; neither can they without us be made perfect. (Lds doctrines & covenants 128:18)
And no "perfection" in the Mormon church, no celestial kingdom (highest degree of Mormon heaven). No celestial kingdom, no "family is forever"...NO Heavenly Father, either. And no godhood. And no own planet, either.
Why...that's going o-for-4 -- to use a common baseball phrase.
Yup. Romney might be DAILY ASKED all about his own involvement in baptizing dead people -- given that it's Mitt's "greatest responsibility" to perform in this life...and that he, like the "prophet" before him, is to "rejoice" in it!
These people are totally insane and when mainstream America finds out that Mittens is a fruitcake heretic and not only a member but a bishop we will be stuck with zero and women of ill repute will be getting all kinds of freebies on the backs of hard working Americans
What if a repeat baptism undoes the previous? But I guess as long as the dead-dunking stops on an odd number the dunkee is good to go.
Why would a god create such a "bureaucracy" of 9 proxy baptisms?
Is this what we can expect from a Mormon POTUS?
Bureaucracy = duplication...Bureaucracy, Mormon style, = bureaucracy times NINE!!!
That's NUTTIN', Honey!
MOST 'mormons' ain't gonna get to LIVE with the FATHER either!!!
"Now, it may be contended that a judgment, with some degree of salvation for all, encourages the sinner to pursue his dark ways. Not so. However generous the judgment, it is measured by our works. Our punishment will be the heavy regret that we might have received a greater reward, a higher kingdom, had our lives conformed more nearly to truth. Such remorse may yield keener pain than physical torture." (Understandable Religion, p. 89)
While Widtsoe is careful not to call a heavenly kingdom "hell", he is nonetheless certain that there will be a keen regret for lost opportunities:
"Humanity will be grouped according to their works in three main divisions: Celestial (like the sun), Telestial (like the moon), Terrestrial (like the earth). Within each group there will be many gradations and divisions, until from the lowest to the highest in all groups there will be a series of gradually ascending glories. There can be no talk of a hell, except for the few 'sons of Perdition,' but undoubtedly the regret for lost opportunities will be keen among those in the lower degrees of glory." (Program of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 226)
Joseph Fielding Smith, on the other hand, considers the tormenting regret experienced in the bottom two heavenly kingdoms and concludes "in that sense it will be hell":
"This earth will become a celestial kingdom when it is sanctified. Those who enter the terrestrial kingdom will have to go to some other sphere which will be prepared for them. Those who enter the telestial kingdom, likewise will have to go to some earth which is prepared for them, and there will be another place which is hell where the devil and those who are punished to go with him will dwell. Of course, those who enter the telestial kingdom, and those who enter the terrestrial kingdom will have the eternal punishment which will come to them in knowing that they might, if they had kept the commandments of the Lord, have returned to his presence as his sons and his daughters. This will be a torment to them, and in that sense it will be hell." (Answers to Gospel Questions, v. 2, p. 210)
This line of thinking is interesting in light of Joseph Smith's following teaching:
"A man is his own tormenter and his own condemner. Hence the saying, They shall go into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. The torment of disappointment in the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone" (TPJS, p. 357)
The entry in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism on "Damnation" essentially explains that the bottom two kingdoms of heaven are kingdoms of damnation:
"Just as there are varying degrees and types of salvation, coupled with eternal progression in some areas (D&C 76:96-98; 131:1-4), so are there varying degrees and types of damnation. In LDS doctrine, to be damned means to be stopped, blocked, or limited in one's progress. Individuals are damned whenever they are prevented from reaching their full potential as children of God. Damnation is falling short of what one might have enjoyed if one had received and been faithful to the whole law of the gospel. In this sense, all who do not achieve the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom are damned, even though they are saved in some degree of glory."
CELESTIAL KINGDOM: See Heaven.
EXALTATION: This is becoming a God in the highest level of the celestial kingdom.
ETERNAL PROGRESSION: The teaching that each of us has the potential to become a God just like God the Father did. He was once a man capable of physical death, was resurrected and progressed to become a God. We can take a similar path and get all the power, glory, dominion, and knowledge the Father and Jesus Christ has. We then will be able to procreate spirit children who will worship us as we do God the Father.
HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):
HELL: A place of torment from which the worst of sinners are resurrected (if they repent) into the Telestial kingdom; only a limited number remain in hell forever, - the devil and the demons and apostates who consciously reject and work against Mormonism.
SALVATION: A word that Mormons qualify in one of three ways: unconditional or general salvation is simply resurrection from the dead, granted to all through Christ's atonement; conditional or individual salvation involves entering the celestial kingdom through works of Mormonism; full salvation means exaltation to become a God as a result of temple ceremonies and other works. The word 'salvation' can have a two-fold meaning: a) forgiveness of sins and b) universal resurrection:
The Mormons have several different levels of "salvation".
WHO’ll be on their backs?
I really wish people with an opinion would clearly state their opinion and then marshal supporting facts and data. These long cut-and-paste jobs are what I expect from a high school sophomore in their first English Essay class.
I meant taxpayers who have to pay for obamacare and welfare for lazy or loose people
I really wish that those who see "mormon" in the thread title would just skip the thread if their only contribution is a complaint when sourced comments regarding mormonism are posted.
There are many, many arcane beliefs in mormon doctrine that need exposure when you have a guy who believes he will become god of his own planet is running for POTUS. Romney and the mormon church would be happy to see these beliefs hid away in the darkness again.
So let me see if I get this ‘84, you want an opinion with supporting sources (facts and data) YET you are complaining about the supporting sources (facts and data) to opinion, as cut and paste.
Yep, apparently so.
I'll just bet you do!
If you can be THIS judgemental when presented with RAW FACTS; I can only imagine what you could do with some juicy opinion!
Now that you have expressed your low opinion about the MESSENGER; got any comments about the MESSAGE he delivered?
I have it from REALLY good sources; that SOME high school sophomores are SLUTS!
...REALLY good sources...
I’ll bet some of them graduate an go on to college!
Those cut and pastes are providing data and facts. Yet you complain about the very thing you say you want.
How about trying to come up with the counter? Oh yeah...you can’t.
“These long cut-and-paste jobs are what I expect from a high school sophomore in their first English Essay class.”
If they are not provided, the “mormon victims” accuse posters of lying. They are provided as a courtesy.
I do not read cut-and-paste rants. The time wasted will never be recovered.
You should read them, at least once. You will learn a lot. They aren’t rants, they are SOURCES (which you asked for in your post above).
Or are you a Morgbot?
And yet here you are; replying to me.
Perhaps your Practice/Preach gene needs a bit of alignment.