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Catholic Church: We need comprehensive immigration reform, not 'Secure Communities' program
Baltimore Sun ^ | March 5, 2012 | Mitchell T. Rozanski, bishop of the Archdiocese of Baltimore

Posted on 03/05/2012 11:12:02 AM PST by moonshinner_09

The recent article about the expansion into Baltimore of the Department of Homeland Security's program to crackdown on illegal immigrants ("Immigrants, city fear divide over status checks," Feb. 26) makes clear the need for real immigration reform. Programs such as Secure Communities, regardless of aim, are succeeding in spreading fear and division and in threatening the stability of the family. Moreover, the program is altering the relationship between federal immigration enforcement and local law enforcement.

The Catholic Church's concern for the welfare of migrants stems from its belief that immigration is ultimately a humanitarian issue because it impacts the basic human rights and dignity of the human person. The Church believes this dignity is undermined by this program's alleged channeling of immigrants into the criminal justice system through racial profiling and pre-textual arrests for the purpose of vetting them for their immigration status. Because Secure Communities is operated at the point of arrest, rather than post-conviction, it casts a wide net over virtually any immigrant who has come into contact with the criminal justice system.

In other parts of the country where Secure Communities is being operated, some law enforcement officers have denounced the program because it creates a lack of trust between immigrant communities and local police, affecting their ability to investigate crime, assist crime victims and ensure the safety of those communities

(Excerpt) Read more at baltimoresun.com ...


TOPICS: Politics; Religion
KEYWORDS: aliens; catholic; immigration; immigrationiam; religion
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To: ArrogantBustard
All legislation is imopsing one set of desires and beliefs on others.
Legislation can't remove your natural rights.
21 posted on 03/05/2012 2:13:06 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Those miserable, worthless papists should just STFU about womens' choice, and reproductive rights, and gays' civil right to marry ...

I attended Mass at four different Parishes in 3 Dioceses in 2008, and heard implicit calls for Parishioners to vote for Obama. Keep out of politics.

22 posted on 03/05/2012 2:42:25 PM PST by South Hawthorne (In Memory of my dear Friend Henry Lee II)
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To: philman_36; ArrogantBustard; Dr. Sivana
philman_36:

You may PREFER a federal and/or state policy of vigorously enforcing the border and keeping undocumented Latinos and others out of the USA. Your PREFERENCE as to public policy does not begin to rise to the level of an asserted "natural right" of yours. Arrogant Bustard is right (as is quite customary) and you are not.

Also, in response to your #18: Leaders of the Roman Catholic Church or any other church for that matter do not check their personal rights at the door when assuming ecclesiastical responsibilities. They have the same right to freedom of speech, press and assembly as you or me. If you would access Thomas Jefferson's very famous letter to the Baptist Congregation at Danbury, CT (1811) on the subject of the rights of churches under the First Amendment, you will find Jefferson's opinion that the amendment exists to get government off the back of churches while scrupulously preserving the right of the churches and their leaders to give unshirted hell to political leaders and to hold them morally responsible. When the letter was written, Connecticut was an exclusively Congregationalist state and denied to anyone not Congregationalist the right to vote or to own real property. Connecticut gave up that position in 1818 proving Jefferson right and the Congregationalist previous position wrong in the eyes of history if not law (until the 14th Amendment was enacted and became effective).

Giving the morally slimy politicians like Obozo and his supporters unshirted hell is precisely what the Catholic hierarchy is doing on the subject of forced provisions for abortion and contraception in "health" insurance policies under Obozocare. They do not have to trade their free speech rights in to get freedom of worship. Like the rest of American mankind, they have both as a matter of right.

23 posted on 03/05/2012 3:51:04 PM PST by BlackElk ( Dean of Discipline ,Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society. Burn 'em Bright!)
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To: BlackElk; ArrogantBustard
Your PREFERENCE as to public policy does not begin to rise to the level of an asserted "natural right" of yours. Arrogant Bustard is right (as is quite customary) and you are not.
I made note of the irony of the two positions.
On the one hand you have the Church saying that forcing the Church and its followers to follow the government's health care mandates is wrong as it violates their religious beliefs.
Yet at the same time this same Church wants to force Americans to follow their religious beliefs and have their idea of "social justice" mandated on others despite their religious and moral objections to such actions. The natural rights of many Americans will be abrogated if such legislation is passed at the whim of a minority.

Attempting to push through immigration reform legislation is not a true first amendment issue. It's political activism and that's a separate, distinct issue. Once the Church takes step to force the issue upon the rest of America through legislative dictate or fiat the whole game changes.
Such activism is forcing their beliefs upon others, just like it was with abortion, DADT and gay marriage. The Church is being hypocritical on this issue.

...there's a real irony in American citizens objecting to the US Government violating their constitutional right to religious liberty, while at the same time exercising their constitutional right to free speech.

You can believe that ArrogantBustard is right all you want...I really don't care. I disagree with the premise he is presenting.

They do not have to trade their free speech rights in to get freedom of worship. Like the rest of American mankind, they have both as a matter of right.
So what gives the Catholic Church the authority to tell me, Congress and the rest of America that we all have to conform and accept their vision of "social justice" via legislative fiat?

24 posted on 03/05/2012 5:38:59 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: philman_36; BlackElk
Attempting to push through immigration reform legislation is not a true first amendment issue.

That is complete and unmitigated nonsense. Speech in favour (or against) some government policy or proposed policy is most definite protected by the first amendment.

25 posted on 03/05/2012 6:29:43 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: philman_36; BlackElk
So what gives the Catholic Church the authority to tell me, Congress and the rest of America that we all have to conform and accept their vision of "social justice" via legislative fiat?

Members of the Catholic Church, even bishops, enjoy the same God given and Constitutionally protected rights to freedom of speech and freedom of the press as you do.

Tell me, philman: What other American Citizens to you wish to silence?

I read your posts and smell the sulfrous stench of totalitarianism.

26 posted on 03/05/2012 6:33:38 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Speech in favour (or against) some government policy or proposed policy is most definite protected by the first amendment.
The freedom of speech in the First Amendment is the protection from government retaliation on Citizens for speaking out against policy that is enacted or elected officials. Simply put...the government can't throw you in jail for protesting or speaking out against the health car act or telling an elected official that they're wrong in what they're doing.
To put it another way...the King can't throw you in jail simply for pointing out to him that he has no clothes on.

Political activism is not freedom of speech...it's political activism.
Freedom of speech is the counter to enacted legislation derived from political activism.

27 posted on 03/05/2012 8:34:34 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Members of the Catholic Church, even bishops, enjoy the same God given and Constitutionally protected rights to freedom of speech and freedom of the press as you do.
I'm not denying them those rights. And that reply doesn't answer my question in any way! What I want to know is this...

What gives the Catholic Church the authority to tell me, Congress and the rest of America that we all have to conform and accept their vision of "social justice" via legislative fiat?

You're willing to grant some people (members of the Catholic Church) their rights while denying others (those who oppose the forced implementation of "social justice") their rights.

28 posted on 03/05/2012 8:43:05 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: philman_36; BlackElk
Sir, your post is complete and utter nonsense, from beginning to end.

You should be embarrassed to have posted it.

29 posted on 03/05/2012 8:51:53 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: moonshinner_09

very one of them ios a criminal, capture and deport every last one of them.

Make it illegal to hire them with heavy fines for the employer.


30 posted on 03/05/2012 8:55:34 PM PST by dalereed
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To: philman_36; BlackElk
Again, sir, you post nonsense.

What gives any human person the right to express his opinion?

That right is God given and Constitutionally protected.

So, you don't like the way somebody else is exercising his rights.

Tough.

That's your problem ... in this (still, more or less) free country, you'll just have to learn to live with people disagreeing with you.

That, or you can continue to look stupid.

31 posted on 03/05/2012 8:56:44 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: dalereed
very one of them ios a criminal, capture and deport every last one of them. Make it illegal to hire them with heavy fines for the employer.

That's "Step Two".

Step One is cutting them off from welfare and public schools, driver licenses, and any other government benefit.

Some businesses are bad offenders, but government is far worse.

32 posted on 03/05/2012 9:02:26 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
What gives any human person the right to express his opinion?
They aren't wanting to simply "express their opinion"!
What do you not get about that?

They're wanting to force upon others their vision of "social justice" through political activism, not the freedom of speech, and legislative fiat without the consent of those others!

Some cynically minded people might even go so far as to say that they're blackmailing the political parties into enacting this BS for nothing more than votes in the upcoming elections.

33 posted on 03/05/2012 9:13:22 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: philman_36
They're wanting to force upon others their vision

BFD.

That's what anybody who advocates for or against any legislation or policy is doing. And yes, our freedom to do so is God given and Constitutionally protected.

If you can't handle that ... if you can't handle people who disagree with you exercising their freedom of speech ...

You might find North Korea more to your liking.

Some cynically minded people need to get their heads out of their asses.

34 posted on 03/05/2012 9:16:44 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
They're wanting to force upon others their vision of "social justice" through political activism, not the freedom of speech, and legislative fiat without the consent of those others!
BFD.
That's it? Big f'ing deal?

That's what anybody who advocates for or against any legislation or policy is doing. And yes, our freedom to do so is God given and Constitutionally protected.
But that "freedom" is not derived from the First Amendment.
It's not that hard to get a bill presented and it doesn't even have to be written by Congressional members.

...if you can't handle people who disagree with you exercising their freedom of speech ...
Are you being intentionally obtuse? I don't have a problem with people exercising their freedom of speech.

I can't handle people using the heavy hand of government through the enactment of legislation garnered by nothing more than political activism to force their personal religious beliefs on me against my will.

You might find North Korea more to your liking.
It sounds as if you might find it more to your liking than I.

Some cynically minded people need to get their heads out of their asses.
It's a good thing I'm not a cynically minded person.

35 posted on 03/05/2012 9:30:22 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Those miserable, worthless papists should just STFU about womens' choice, and reproductive rights, and gays' civil right to marry ...

I attended Mass at four different Parishes in 3 Diocees in 2008, and heard implicit calls for Parishiners to vote for Obama in each one. Keep out of politics.

36 posted on 03/06/2012 1:18:27 AM PST by South Hawthorne (In Memory of my dear Friend Henry Lee II)
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To: moonshinner_09
They're at it again...! From 2 year ago...

Tucson Bishop Kicanas Testifies Before Congress, Urges Federal Action on Immigration Reform (USCCB)

37 posted on 03/06/2012 4:11:05 AM PST by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Those miserable, worthless papists should just STFU about womens' choice, and reproductive rights, and gays' civil right to marry ...

First thing you posted right. They SHOULD shut up about that vis-a-vis the law/govt. They SHOULD enforce the Church's law in their own purview - the congregation.

They give communion to people who publicly support abortion. They are hypocrites. They are doing this (illegal immigration support) because the peasants from south of the border go to their churches and give them money.

38 posted on 03/06/2012 4:47:32 AM PST by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: raybbr

Nice ... thanks for the honesty.

What OTHER American Citizens would you like to silence?

Your attitude is disgraceful.


39 posted on 03/06/2012 5:59:54 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: philman_36
I don't have a problem with people exercising their freedom of speech.

Baloney. Your entire presence on this thread has been a bitchfest against people you don't like exercising their freedom of speech.

40 posted on 03/06/2012 6:02:51 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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