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China, Marx, USA or Scandinavia?
03/24/2012 | WesternCulture

Posted on 03/24/2012 6:40:20 AM PDT by WesternCulture

Everyone knows the US today is the single most powerful nation on Earth and corners of Europe like Switzerland, Scandinavia and Luxemburg are the richest (yes, Qatar is pretty rich too).

But what part, if any, will lead the World in say 200 years from now?

Marxists claim the US is heading for a fall. Perhaps it is, but don't expect North Korea or Cuba to take its place.

Hundreds of times, I've been telling members of this forum what is right about Scandinavia.

We dare to stand up for freedom of speech, we dare to fight Islamofascism, we dare to go to work each day (unlike the Greeks) and we dare to give our full support to America (unlike the French, although Sarkozy has convinced a lot of his fellow countrymen to rethink)!

We Vikings have a reputation of being uneducated brutes, but please tell me what we have done wrong (except for letting too many Muslims in) the last two decades or so.

Norway boasts the highest numbers of US dollar millionaires per capita - and no, this is not only because of North Sea oil.

Tiny Sweden (where I'm from), despite its puny population of a mere 9.5 million is home to success stories like Volvo, Electrolux, SKF, ABB (Swedish-Swiss), Skype, Astra-Zeneca (Swedish-British), Koenigsegg, Ericsson, H&M, IKEA, Atlas Copco, Absolut Vodka, Scania etc., etc.

Danes earn the highest wages on Earth (despite having no big oil companies and despite being fully cooperative in terms of financial transparency unlike nations like Lichtenstein).

Will China or India ever catch up with countries like Switzerland and the Scandinavian ones?

China still manages to display yearly GDP growth rates of 8-10%.

But what will the World look like in, say, 200 years?

Will Iran become a true democracy? Will China? Will the EU project of peace and prosperity result in Western Civilization anew gaining a leading position in global affairs?

I consider it safe to say the qualities my nation has, qualities like a strong tradition of engineering, entrepreneurship and doing foreign trade, will continue to place us among the most successful countries on Earth for years to come.

Recently, Sweden has produced GDP growth figures at an 'Asian' level - much thanks to our competence in areas like the automotive and IT sector. I wouldn't be surprised if we soon beat China in the domain of annual GDP growth. We recently hit 7.3%.

Innovation can compete with implementation.

Today, China and India are growing even faster than we are, but this basically has to do with a 'catching up' effect. These nations are rapidly employing technologies that we have been using over a long stretch of years.

Will the rising superpower of India join forces with the West and put an end to Islamofascist tendencies in Pakistan?

I've been to India and talked to a lot of people down there. You can't imagine the anger they feel against Islam..

Today, my corner of the World, clearly demonstrates what Humanity is capable of and not.

I've learned it's possible to adapt Muslims to Civilization, at least to a certain degree; many Muslims originating from the Third World have found work in Sweden and have learned about democracy and the benefits of the values we nurture.

However, the most advanced Christian nations of today like Switzerland, Sweden and Norway etc. can't change the Muslim World all around through yearly allowing thousands and thousands of Muslim immigrants in.

We Europeans have to put an end to the Muslim invasion.

In Sweden of today, birth statistics defy the widespread notion of Muslims breeding more than ethnic Europeans. Native Swedish women (and their respective husbands) have in fact developed a 'third child' trend, while Muslim women in Sweden seldom give birth to more than two children.

Still, we as a nation, as well as all other Europeans must do more to preserve our own identity.

Patriotism is not a bad word, but Multiculturalism is a failed ideology.

We must get rid of ideas like Socialism, Liberalism and Fascism.

Read a book about European history and you'll soon discover what harm these ideas have brought to our soil.

Along with the two devastating wars of the 1900s, Socialism, Fascism, unions and Liberalism have hindered European progress.

Conservative values is the only ideology that could resurrect our continent and Western Civilization as a whole.

Lately, several European nations like France, Germany, Britain and Sweden have enjoyed Conservative leadership.

The result; restored economic growth and increased levels of consumption.

A nation like Germany still is far too indebted and unlike the situation here in Sweden the German unions refuse to accept reality, but I could tell you that driving down the Autobahn in the Western parts of the country you still see lots of luxury BMWs, Porsches, Audis and MBs on the road.

There definitely is hope for Western companies, our bank accounts and our economical assets at large, but we also need to make lasting improvements regarding the ways in which we educate our children, the methods we employ in dealing with crime and the policies we use fighting the enemies of freedom.

To begin with, let's forget about what the media is telling us about the alleged schism between Europe and America.

Ask any 10-year old school child over here in Europe and they'll tell you about how America saved Europe twice last century.

God bless America, Europe, Capitalist spirit and our friends everywhere on this planet!

If Karl Marx could stand up from the dead (and actually disposed of some intelligence), he probably would admit Socialism had failed.

We Westerners can not be defeated, clowns like Chavez and Ahmadinejad will soon be forgotten and the idea of freedom shall not perish from Earth.

TOPICS: Business/Economy; Society
KEYWORDS: capitalism; china; denmark; economicgrowth; europe; finland; france; gdpgrowth; germany; iceland; india; marxism; norway; scandinavia; socialism; statistics; stats; sweden

1 posted on 03/24/2012 6:40:26 AM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture
Now you guys have a good Fimbul Winter and that'll be a game changing event.

Did you notice how close you came this year? 40 below in Serbia!

This can happen again and you won't have a summer NEXT YEAR!

I"m sure most the native Scandinavians will survive but the immigrants from the ME will be out of business.

2 posted on 03/24/2012 6:48:48 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

“This can happen again and you won’t have a summer NEXT YEAR!”

- I humbly bow down to the greatest meteorologist of this forum.

3 posted on 03/24/2012 6:59:00 AM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

YOu jest, but you know it’s true. Two double bangers in a row and next thing you know summer just doesn’t show up. We had one of those in 1821

4 posted on 03/24/2012 7:15:55 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Well, here in the Northeast of the USA we had a snow storm on Oct 31 and nothing since. This last month of winter it has been as high as 80F. We are enjoying a warmer than usual spring. That said, check out Svensmarks “The Chilling Stars,” if you haven’t already. I think he one of you fellow Scandanavians

5 posted on 03/24/2012 8:43:56 AM PDT by RichardMoore (There is only one issue- Life: dump TV and follow a plant based diet)
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To: RichardMoore

“Well, here in the Northeast of the USA we had a snow storm on Oct 31”

- Better turn to your Weather Ombudsman.

6 posted on 03/24/2012 9:34:47 AM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

Great post again as usual. :)

7 posted on 03/24/2012 9:35:10 AM PDT by marron
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To: marron

Great post again as usual. :)

- Sincere thanks.

Hope it shines through how much I love the world of which I am a part.

One fine day, each child growing up in this world up will enjoy the blessings of freedom and Capitalism.

Evil ideologies that challenge Christianity must be stopped. We should not make a habit of using violence, but violence sometimes is called for.

8 posted on 03/24/2012 10:10:25 AM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

After spending some time in your country, I would say that you you can not lump Sweden with ALL of Scandinavia. Sweden is by far the most “Americanized” country in Europe. Spending time in other Scandinavian countries, I could not WAIT to get back to Sweden were things were more affordable (crazy as it sounds) and less stifling. I would say Sweden is freer than most of the northeastern United States and California. Probably due to reform. You have been where we are hell bent on heading.

9 posted on 03/24/2012 10:16:36 AM PDT by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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To: riri

Thank you for your appreciative words about my country.

Let’s look at things from this angle:

- Out of love, God gave Man freedom (already Renaissance thinkers realized this)

- Man is at the center of creation, although God encompasses all of it.

- Other religions from Christianity have faled to discover this act of God.

10 posted on 03/24/2012 10:30:57 AM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

“have failed to discover this (..)”

- Sorry for not spelling properly.

11 posted on 03/24/2012 10:36:42 AM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture
China, Marx, USA or Scandinavia

"Name three countries and a comedian."

12 posted on 03/24/2012 10:43:02 AM PDT by Larry Lucido (My doctor told me to curtail my Walpoling activities.)
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To: riri

Thanks for spending some time here.

Welcome back!

We like having visitors who come here and learn how to eat proper food and drink like they’re not little children.

13 posted on 03/24/2012 10:51:21 AM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture
As I Chinese American, I don't find your perspective offensive. Though, I don't entirely agree with it.

While the US and Northern Europe will likely be the wealthiest per capita for the remainder of the century, projecting beyond that is anyone's guess. And China will likely struggle for another 25 years just to get to the UK's per capita GDP. However, as far as leading the world, you need to keep in mind, that China is probably only 20 years away from having an economy larger than the entire European Union. China's GDP is already larger than Germany and France combined and by the end of the decade Germany, France, UK, and Italy.

So, realistically, in terms of who will lead the world 200 years from now, its a stretch to say Northern Europe. Let alone 25 years from now. Over the next 25 years, Chinese investment dollars will continue to climb higher in Europe and even places like Sweden. The Chinese already own Volvo and if it were not for the intervention of GM, they would already own Saab.

Once again, I respect your point of view and don't find Scandinavian pride offensive (I worked with a guy once who was from Sweden, so I understand this perspective).

But we also need to keep in mind certain realities, and that is, the combined population of the Nordic countries would be equal to one large Chinese city. And while the average wealth of the Scandinavians will remain higher than the Chinese for the remainder of the century, we need to keep in mind, that China, and not Northern Europe, will move the world. And I'm not talking 200 years from now, I'm talking about 25-30 years from now.

14 posted on 03/24/2012 11:11:12 AM PDT by ponder life
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To: ponder life

Thank you for commenting.

I believe Sweden and China could work together.

China is not foreign to the idea of innovation, but you have not yet made it a lifestyle.

15 posted on 03/24/2012 4:32:22 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture
I believe its okay for China not to be entirely there yet. To go from 19th century into the 21st century in a couple of generations will require some copying. And copying isn't entirely bad. One thing that gets lost, is that all ideas that have the patents run out is okay to copy. And many patents typically run out in 17 years.

So, what China needs to do, is a combination of developing new ideas and bringing their base industry up to par. Once China catches up, then I believe a culture of innovation will permeate China.

16 posted on 03/24/2012 9:08:06 PM PDT by ponder life
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To: ponder life
China has made a great deal of success lately.

The great nation of China has begun to learn about Western engineering. So far, so good.

But probably, China will never be able to compete with a European nation like Germany in this respect. The overall IQ level of the Chinese is far too weak, worker skills are at a very low level and the business life lacks flexibility as well as competent leadership. Corruption is also very high in China.

These factors compose major threats to continued economic growth.

Still, it is a good thing China is willing to re-orientate its present strategical direction from one of quantity to goals of quality.

China has a lot to learn from Western Europe when it comes to branding and manufacturing skills and it better act very humbly in its onward progression if it wishes to compete with the nations presently viewed as leaders of marketing luxury consumption goods.

Sweden can come up with updated versions of Koenigsegg performance cars month after month. China can not.

Again, my Sweden is an ‘innovation economy’, while China and India presently are in the process of catching up with technologies and science we Westerners have been using for decades.

17 posted on 03/26/2012 4:33:04 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture
You're right in a sense that China's business life is not as flexible as the West. And corruption is higher than in the West. But I believe China will change in this area as she faces a do or die situation as she integrates her economy closer with the West. But you are right, corruption and how she liberates her economy is a test on how well she will move ahead.

As far as IQ, not sure if workforce, Western or Chinese are measured in that. One thing that is measured, are math scores from students, grade school through college, and consistently Asian countries top Western countries in general. And this includes China. And these tests are typically developed by the West.

I would say, China has alot to learn from the West in general, both North America and the European Union. The US has the upper hand between Europe and itself when it comes to technology, globalization, etc. But Europe, as a whole, does come in at a close second. But in the near term, i.e., the next decade, she will likely gleen more from Europe than the US. For the simple reason that Europe doesn't view China as much of a threat as the US. But also, Europe is going through economic upheaval at this moment. And Europe will be more open for Chinese involvement in technology. We already see that in that Europe has helped China in satellite technology.

There are two roads for China, she will either get caught in what is commonly referred to as the "Middle Income Trap", in which most developing countries get themselves in. And this is due to many of the things you talk about, corruptions, liberalization of the economy, etc. But also, the inability to adapt the latest technologies. However, I believe China will escape this trap and forge ahead.

The Koenigsegg looks like an impressive car. But one thing we need to keep in mind, as innovative as the Sweden and the other Scandanavian countries are, they still are only 25 million people. Meaning, most of the innovations that have been developed by the West were done outside of Scandanavia. I'm sure Sweden have contributed beyond her proportion, of course, but still a smaller pie, than compared with the US, UK, Germany, etc. And just as Sweden can thrive as a first world nation using technology developed by other countries, so too can China. In China's case, of course, she will need to be the most innovative if she wants to achieve first world status. A larger country simply needs to develop more marketable patents than a smaller one.

Once again, to re-affirm your belief about Scandanavia, I agree, that China, for most of the rest of the 21st century, will unlikely have a higher per capita than Norway, Sweden, Finland, etc. But as a whole, as she adapts Western technology, will likely have a larger economy than the 27 nation EU before 2030.

As I had mentioned earlier, most technology, once the patent expires, can be copied and sold legally on the global market place. That's how Lexus got its start. Toyota bought two Mercedes vehicle, took it completely apart. Then created something that was close. But over the course of the last 20+ years, upgraded so that, that for the same amount of money, many choose the Lexus over the Mercedes.

This access to Western markets, while using technology that are no longer protected by patents, is how China will step her way up towards an equalvalent to the Western world. And doing her own R&D in parallel of the latest with the West. An example, researching graphite reactor design while still trying to catch up on traditional reactor designs.

In the long run, I do believe China, as a whole, will be a peer to the entire European continent from Portugal to Ural Mountains (which includes the European portion Russia) before 2040.

18 posted on 03/27/2012 1:08:12 PM PDT by ponder life
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To: WesternCulture
Here's an interesting article. Its about China's eagerness to buy up foreign companies:

19 posted on 04/03/2012 10:41:20 PM PDT by ponder life
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To: WesternCulture
Just another one of WesternCulture's 'America Sucks! Europe is Better!' threads. Thread #15.
20 posted on 09/11/2014 10:06:38 PM PDT by CodeToad (Romney is a raisin cookie looking for chocolate chip cookie votes.)
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