Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Real Sin of Sodom
Town Hall ^ | March 28, 2012 | reasonmclucus

Posted on 03/28/2012 8:52:15 AM PDT by kathsua

I recently watched an old episode of my mom's favorite television show, the "Billy Graham Crusades". Dr. Graham surprised me with some of his comments about the Biblical city of Sodom. He said that greed was one of the sins of the people of Sodom. According to Ezekiel 16:49 - "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."

Many members of the Republican Party have a problem with this same sin. So why do Christians in the Republican Party encourage this sin by supporting low taxes for those with high incomes? Why do Christians support Republicans who don't believe in helping the poor?

Sodom isn't the only Biblical location whose residents were punished by God for mistreating the poor. The Israeli prophets warned the leaders of Israel about the consequences of mistreating the poor before wealthy Israelites were taken into captivity and the land left to the poor.

Ezekiel 22:12 - "you take interest and make a profit from the poor. You extort unjust gain from your neighbors. And you have forgotten me, declares the Sovereign LORD."

Amos 4:1 - "Hear this word, you cows of Bashan on Mount Samaria, you women who oppress the poor and crush the needy and say to your husbands, “Bring us some drinks!”

Amos 5:11 - "You levy a straw tax on the poor and impose a tax on their grain. Therefore, though you have built stone mansions, you will not live in them; though you have planted lush vineyards, you will not drink their wine."

Luke and other gospels carry a statement by Jesus about the problem facing the rich. " Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God." Luke 18:24-5

Preachers often suggest the camel analogy is about something large going through a tight opening. The analogy is more likely a camel saying like the "straw that broke the camel's back" or what happens if someone lets a camel get its head inside a tent. People of that era likely used the task of getting a camel through the eye of a needle as a way to determine how difficult the task was.

The problem with getting a camel through the eye of a needle is the shape of the animal and its sometimes uncooperative nature. The long neck, legs and hump means the task isn't simple even with a very large needle. Keep in mind that a needle has a long portion connected to the eye.

Christian Republicans need to recognize that abortion and sexual morality aren't the only moral issues in politics. Mistreatment of the poor and how the rich acquire wealth are at least as important. Christians need to move away from the greedy Republicans who believe the rich should escape the taxes needed to fund government.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; Politics; Religion
KEYWORDS: christians; sin; sodom; taxes
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-67 next last
And I always thought sex was the problem in Sodom. This is something for Christian Republicans to think about. Obviously we can't support the abortion politicians in the Democratic party. We need to get some Republicans to change their serve the rich mentality.
1 posted on 03/28/2012 8:52:22 AM PDT by kathsua
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: kathsua

Apples and oranges. Giving more money to the government has nothing to do with helping the poor.

Confusing the two issues is how Dems stay in power.

If you’ll check, Repubs give far more of their personal income to charity than Dems, because Repubs understand their responsibility to help the poor is personal. Dems think someone else should do it.


2 posted on 03/28/2012 9:00:23 AM PDT by marron
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

I am unaware of any plank or position in the Republican party platform which victimizes the poor.

Capitalism helps all people, including the poor.

Welfare hurts them; I’d make an exception for one-time “welfare” if you want to call it that for disaster relief.

The best thing you can do for a poor man is have a good economy going and get him a good job. The absolutely best thing.

So why does this article presuppose that Republicans have anti-poor attitudes? A socialistic welfare state impoverishes EVERYBODY.


3 posted on 03/28/2012 9:01:29 AM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua
arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy

I deny this assumption.
Everything else falls apart from there.

Many may be arrogant or prideful about their status, sure. Overfed? They eat well, that's for sure, but I doubt they're all obese. Many of the rich have their own nutrionists and workout instructors to maintain an image. Unconcerned? The poor don't start and fund foundations and endowments.

From Donald Trump to Bill and Melinda Gates to "American Idol", they all give back.

Romney was criticized for his 15% effective tax rate. His charitable contributions were even higher.

Don't paint with a broad brush.

4 posted on 03/28/2012 9:02:16 AM PDT by Tanniker Smith (I didn't know she was a liberal when I married her.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

While I don’t disagree that these were sins of Sodom I vehemetly disagree that conservatives don’t care about the poor. In fact time and time again I have seen surveys that indicate it is the dems that fail to commit personal resources to assist others, not conservatives or repubs.

The truth is that the Dems just want the state to do it for them so they don’t have to be “personally involved” in the transaction - which just further indicates they don’t really care about the action, but merely feel it is a disdainful task that requires performance.

In addition, they gain the benefit of exercising power to determine to whom and for what activities the assistance is provided. Power is why they put up with it. Its the arrogant rich (as opposed to all rich) mentality that as long as they get something for it they are willing to have their “people” hand out checks to the underlings.


5 posted on 03/28/2012 9:03:47 AM PDT by reed13k (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

So if a republican doesn’t cheerfully hand over confiscatory taxes to the GOVERNMENT, somehow they’re anti-poor?

That’s a crock.


6 posted on 03/28/2012 9:03:57 AM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua
Why do Christians support Republicans who don't believe in helping the poor?

Helping the poor is the job of the individual Christian and the church.

Government help to the poor creates dependence and generational misery.

Christians shouldn't support Republicans who believe in helping the poor.

So you may as well ask "Why do Democrats want to help the poor?" The simple and short answer is votes.

7 posted on 03/28/2012 9:04:39 AM PDT by Tao Yin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

Are you joking? I thought this had to be satire while reading it, but there isn’t anything in there suggesting you intended it as such.

As I understand it, you’re suggesting that it is sinful if we fail to support politicians who will use the demonstrably inefficient mechanism of state funded wealth redistribution to create programs that nominally support the poor.

That’s wrong on so many levels, I barely know where to begin.

Let’s start with the idea that the state actually supports the poor. Every piece of evidence on the federal government’s “war on poverty” shows that the only results of state intervention is to create a permanent underclass of poor people. State interventions breed poverty like mouldy sandwiches breed cockroaches. The federal war on poverty breaks up families, destroys independent work ethics, and removes any need for the impoverished to take responsibility for their condition. It promotes the murder of the unborn under the mantra of providing “health” services to the poor. It destroys American business and the ability to generate wealth.

Most importantly from a Christian perspective, the modern practice of pretending to support the poor by voting for pols who will create an unending list of entitlements destroys the meaning of charity. Charity is a personal decision and a recognition by the individual that everything we have comes from God and that we owe it back to him. It is a personal responsibility for the well-being of our neighbors. It is not the lazy feel-good garbage that leftists and statists feel when they take wealth from those who create it and distribute part of it (after taking their cut first) to programs they like.

Personal charity also ensures responsibility for the person receiving the charity. If I give a neighbor a hand up, and that person uses that help irresponsibly, I have satisfied my duty to God and it is in fact a sin to continue to enable sinful behavior through more giving. Statist redistribution, however, is premised on the idea that wealth redistribution should be amoral. In supporting the irresponsibility of recipients of wealth redistribution and failing to hold them accountable, the state is immoral.

Your post is wrong.


8 posted on 03/28/2012 9:07:20 AM PDT by FateAmenableToChange
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

Maybe your shouldn’t cherrypick scripture. Try reading Proverbs, which talks a lot about the folly of the lazy and foolish.

Then there is “He who will not worked, will not eat.”

Your don’t do the poor a service by making it easy to be poor. Their difficulties might teach them to think about their life choices, like letting that boy impregnate them.


9 posted on 03/28/2012 9:08:55 AM PDT by LevinFan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

Oh, please. I trust people to spend their own hard-earned money FAR more than I trust the government. “Funding government” is NOT a worthy goal when it’s like our current government.

I don’t think you’re on the right website. We believe in personal responsibility here, not the glory of government.


10 posted on 03/28/2012 9:09:04 AM PDT by Politicalmom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua
You mistake corrupt government giveaways with charity. Charity can only come from the heart of the individual. Republican candidates who fight to keep government out of our wallets and our lives are serving Freedom which, in turn, allows people to be charitable by not sanctioning the stealing of their wealth.

"You get no moral credit for forcing other people to do what you think is right." - noted atheist Penn Jillette.

11 posted on 03/28/2012 9:09:08 AM PDT by Dr. Thorne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

Genesis 19:5,
They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

I’ll agree to bump taxes on the rich when you agree to make homosexuality illegal.


12 posted on 03/28/2012 9:09:35 AM PDT by bramps (Newt is the one)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua
"Many members of the Republican Party have a problem with this same sin. So why do Christians in the Republican Party encourage this sin by supporting low taxes for those with high incomes?"

Objecting to feeding the greedy government is certainly not a sin. What makes government greed not a sin? Further, the old testament made it clear that when it came to taxing and justice the rich were to be treated the same as the poor. When God instituted the census tax it was the exact same (one half sheckle) for rich and poor. The tithe was also 10% for everyone, rich or poor. A Christian can use his wealth for the benefit of the poor much better than the government ever could.

13 posted on 03/28/2012 9:10:07 AM PDT by circlecity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua
We need to get some Republicans to change their serve the rich mentality.

with all due respect - I believe your thinking about left/right, rich/poor are a cliche.

Leftists everywhere claim to help the poor, yet everywhere, they hurt them, and create more poor people. In some places its extreme, like China - where the Communists created a first-ever nationwide famine in the early 1960s.

In the United States, leftists have simply made more poor - and destroyed their morals and families. How many people do we have on food stamps now? How many poor children are born without fathers compared to 50 years ago? How many more abortions are "the poor" having now vs. 50 years ago? Its clear Obama loves the poor so much, he wants to create many more of them.

Again, with all due respect, please do your own thinking, and stop swallowing the leftist propoganda whole.

14 posted on 03/28/2012 9:11:01 AM PDT by PGR88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua
So why do Christians in the Republican Party encourage this sin by supporting low taxes for those with high incomes?

Seriously? Idiot.

15 posted on 03/28/2012 9:11:29 AM PDT by Larry Lucido (My doctor told me to curtail my Walpoling activities.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Persevero

Judaism teaches that one of the greatest “mitzvahs”, or good deeds one can perform is to show and encourage a poor person how they can lift themselves out of poverty and do for themselves. This goes right along with Jesus’ teaching, Give a man a fish, he’s fed for a day. Teach him how to fish, he’s fed for life. But then, ex-poor people may become ex-democrats.


16 posted on 03/28/2012 9:12:43 AM PDT by Impala64ssa (You call me an islamophobe like it's a bad thing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: kathsua
This is the great sin of the Democrat Party, that according to their dogma the only real measure of demonstrating compassion is to surrender ever increasing amounts of money and power to government.

No matter how much liberals proclaim, compassion for the poor is not measured by how much of my labor is handed over to a wasteful government.

While there are some poor people in this country, I do not consider a lack of cable TV and the latest iPhone as being "poor".

17 posted on 03/28/2012 9:14:04 AM PDT by Obadiah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua
We need to get some Republicans to change their serve the rich mentality.

You are SO on the wrong board, hon!

18 posted on 03/28/2012 9:14:08 AM PDT by Larry Lucido (My doctor told me to curtail my Walpoling activities.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

Generosity toward the poor must remain the province of the individual, the churches and local government. Federal and state government help for the poor will turn into a great mess every time.


19 posted on 03/28/2012 9:14:40 AM PDT by lurk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Persevero

Judaism teaches that one of the greatest “mitzvahs”, or good deeds one can perform is to show and encourage a poor person how they can lift themselves out of poverty and do for themselves. This goes right along with Jesus’ teaching, Give a man a fish, he’s fed for a day. Teach him how to fish, he’s fed for life. But then, ex-poor people may become ex-democrats.


20 posted on 03/28/2012 9:16:22 AM PDT by Impala64ssa (You call me an islamophobe like it's a bad thing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

Big Government takes over what Christians should do. Then, the Christians no longer have to be Christians. I don’t think God wanted it that way.


21 posted on 03/28/2012 9:16:57 AM PDT by jonrick46 (Countdown to 11-06-2012)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: reed13k

Not sure how taking more and more money from others, who have already given far more by their own free than you would personally even consider, is virtuous. I guess I’ll never learn to think like a Democrat.


22 posted on 03/28/2012 9:18:04 AM PDT by katana (Just my opinions)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: kathsua
There are 6 or 8 sins listed relating to the destruction of Sodom, Gomorrah and a third city that I can't remember. This nit picker chose one little element and draws a major conclusion for the whole destruction. This is kinda like watching a leaf fall and use it for the total description of a tornado. We are so simple minded that we can not understand but little elements of God!
23 posted on 03/28/2012 9:26:36 AM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua
Sodom is the root of the word SODOMY. The whole area and other towns were lost as well as Sodom. Lot went to ZOAR as a special favor to Lot, to save him and his daughters. Genesis 19. There are many sins of man causing Gods chastisement.

Wickedness had reached a peak. One of the great things about the Bible in reading and studying is there are many, many instances of it referencing earlier happenings that sheds new light on them. Layers upon layers of understanding are there to be discovered with deeper study. MO.

24 posted on 03/28/2012 9:27:49 AM PDT by geologist (The only answer to the troubles of this life is Jesus. A decision we all must make.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: katana

exactly my point - perhaps I didn’t communicate it as well


25 posted on 03/28/2012 9:28:04 AM PDT by reed13k (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

In any case, your whole case is bogus. People with high incomes already pay the lion’s share of the taxes. Half the people pay effectively no income tax at all.

The highest income people are business people. Increase taxes on businesses, and you increase the price of the product. You may think the rich are paying it, but actually you pay it when you buy the milk at the store. There is no way to insulate yourself from the effects of high taxes. Tax the oil companies: you pay the tax at the gas pump. When they raised diesel taxes, groceries went up because everything moves by diesel.

You can’t raise taxes on the rich without raising costs for the poor. It can’t be done.

The best defense against poverty ever invented is a family and a job. Everything you do that encourages those two, reduces poverty. Everything you do that undercuts those two, spreads poverty and increases the intensity of it.


26 posted on 03/28/2012 9:31:10 AM PDT by marron
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua
Actually, when I studied The Bible, one of the biggest evils practiced by the residents of Sodom was their treatment of strangers and travelers.

Regarding Christian Republicans not "caring" about the poor, I would say that they realize it's not the responsibility of government to do it. There's no such things as coerced charity. And leftists see government as a tool to relieve them of the responsibility to be charitable, and as has been shown over and over again, leftists tend to be less charitable as individuals.

For too long, government, big business (GE anyone?), and "big finance" (GS anyone?) have had a corrupt relationship. That can be fixed, but unfortunately, it can be laid at the footsteps of everyone in politics. People really should be seeing some serious prison time for what they've done to the country, but the problem is that the people who make and enforce the laws are in bed with the law breakers.

Mark

27 posted on 03/28/2012 9:31:28 AM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua
We need to get some Republicans to change their serve the rich mentality.

Why limit this to Republicans? Democrats are just as bad in terms of crony capitalism.

28 posted on 03/28/2012 9:34:45 AM PDT by Wissa (Gone Galt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

Jude 1:7

Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them, having in like manner with these given themselves over to fornication and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.


29 posted on 03/28/2012 9:36:04 AM PDT by DManA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

Jude 1:7

Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them, having in like manner with these given themselves over to fornication and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.


30 posted on 03/28/2012 9:36:47 AM PDT by DManA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua
All of the homo-theologians use this scripture to justify their behavior. By no means are we a society that "serves the rich". If anything we are a society that favors the poor!

Progressive Taxation
Entitlements
Affirmative Action
etc.

In fact, the Word of God forbids the "favoring of the poor" (Exodus 23:3).

Having said that, the democrats, by dispensing America's wealth to the poor through the violent taxation confiscation, only "enable the poor". It keeps them in servitude. Welfare begets welfare.

It is the "placate the mob" mentality for their own political ends. Why else do we only see rampant homosexual in non-conservative societies????
31 posted on 03/28/2012 9:37:41 AM PDT by Jan_Sobieski (Sanctification)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

On what basis does the writer deem that Republicans mistreat the poor? Our government is almost 15 TRILLION dollars in debt. We have had Republican Presidents and Congresses. Seems they have not shorted the poor on other people money!


32 posted on 03/28/2012 9:43:29 AM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I sign up for the New American Revolution and the Crusades 2012?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua
“Why do Christians support Republicans who don't believe in helping the poor?”

That's total nonsense. Statistics show that conservatives are much more generous to charitable causes than are liberals.

Unlike liberals, we just don't believe in letting the government take the money by force and apply, steal it or waste it as they see fit. Nowhere in the Bible does God suggest that taxing your neighbor is charity. Charity is a freewill choice and therein lies the rub. Libs are all about their own free choice but contemptuous of granting the same to their neighbors.

And please do some study, regarding Sodom. The shallow attempts to reboot God's moral view is tiresome. Read the text (Genesis 18 - 19) then read Leviticus 18 and 20.

This is not to say that Sodom's ONLY offenses were sexual but to try to hand-wave them away is sophistry.

33 posted on 03/28/2012 9:44:10 AM PDT by GlenRoss ("I've now been in 57 states -- I think one left to go.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

First, thanks for posting this. I consider it a kind of review question for life’s final exam.

I will answer that my becoming a Republican was based on my realization that allowing people to flourish and enjoy the fruit of their labor encouraged more labor, and this in turn produced greater innovation, wealth, comfort and happiness for everyone— especially the poor.

I would rather be the poorest of the poor in this country than a ‘wealthy’ person in some other countries.

This is a pragmatic position, but I think it’s a wise and benevolent one. It’s said that Adam Smith tackled this problem in the last major effort of his life. He died before he could complete it and much of this work was destroyed in accordance with his wishes. It’s a shame we don’t have more of his thoughts on this.

We are obliged to others, and embattled as we are, are prone to resort to less able thinkers — Ayn Rand for example— for our replies to our critics.


34 posted on 03/28/2012 9:50:52 AM PDT by tsomer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

“Ezekiel 16:49-50 declares, “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me...” The Hebrew word translated “detestable” refers to something that is morally disgusting and is the exact same word used in Leviticus 18:22 that refers to homosexuality as an “abomination.” Similarly, Jude 7 declares, “...Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion.” So, again, while homosexuality was not the only sin in which the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah indulged, it does appear to be the primary reason for the destruction of the cities.”

http://www.gotquestions.org/Sodom-and-Gomorrah.html

As others have pointed out, the problem with Democrats is they want to tell God, “We are good people. We gave OTHER PEOPLE’S money to the poor...”


35 posted on 03/28/2012 9:54:08 AM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

What?Are you out of your mind, Christian Republicans? Why don’t you examine yourself and get the log out of your eye, you sanctimonious ass.


36 posted on 03/28/2012 9:54:38 AM PDT by richardtavor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

The Christian message is clear: you should freely give to the poor. But when the government does it, it is not “freely given”.

If you think that you should give to the poor, do it. I agree. But the bottom line is this:

The conservative thinks he should give to the poor, so he does.

A liberal thinks he should give to the poor, so he creates welfare and FORCES tax payers, via the power of the gun, to give to the poor.

See the difference?


37 posted on 03/28/2012 9:55:04 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

Wow are you ever confused!

It is a Christian duty to care for the poor.

Do you generally feel that the Government can and should fulfill your Christian duty on your behalf?

Did the Jesus you believe in say “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s - and Caesar will render unto the Lord on your behalf.”?


38 posted on 03/28/2012 9:57:55 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to DC to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

“How should God approve of the taking from Peter, and giving this robbery to Paul, in the name of Christ?”


39 posted on 03/28/2012 10:00:38 AM PDT by sima_yi ( Reporting live from the People's Republic of Boulder)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua; marron
I see in scripture a mandate to individuals, churches, AND governments to help the poor and needy. There has to be balance though as you need to maintain a strong economy in order to be in a position to help the poor.

Some in the GOP, especially libertarians, hate government so much that they refuse to recognize the scriptural mandate to governments to help the poor. Marron's post #2 is an example.

The same characters typically also hate taxes so much that they refer to it as "theft at the point of a gun", instead of recognizing the scriptural mandate to pay taxes to those whom taxes are due.

40 posted on 03/28/2012 10:04:14 AM PDT by DannyTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

There were many sins in Sodom, but there can be no doubt that sexual perversion was a big part:

Jude 1:7
“just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.”

2Peter 2:7-8
“and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds)”


41 posted on 03/28/2012 10:16:20 AM PDT by Shelayne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

Oh please Republican give more to charity than anyone else it is the forced taking of things we are against.


42 posted on 03/28/2012 10:23:54 AM PDT by chris_bdba
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN

Sleight of hand. Government wants to raise taxes because it wants to increase the reach of government. Repubs oppose the increase of taxes because they seek to limit the reach of government. Since explaining the whole notion of classic liberalism and limited government is complicated, the whole argument winds up being about tax cuts.

I’ve often made the comment myself that Repubs have to make the whole limited-government argument, they have to make the whole classic liberal case again and again, they can’t rely on some kind of short-hand argument about tax cuts, because half the people in America don’t pay income tax anyway, and aren’t going to get it.

Dems want to extend the reach of government into every aspect of your life, and keep jacking tax rates to pay for it even though raising taxes (and micromanaging the economy) suffocates the economy and pushes people out of work thus creating more poor people as you well should know.

If we push back on taxes, they say, what, you don’t like poor people? Or they’ll add program after program and if you push back on taxes they’ll threaten to lay off police and teachers. What, you don’t like teachers? No, we want to roll back the other programs that have extended the reach of government where it doesn’t belong.

Sleight of hand. You oppose running a $4 trillion dollar budget with $2 trillion in income. What, you don’t like poor people? What, are you a radical libertarian who doesn’t pay his taxes? We oppose looting social security and Dems accuse us of hating old people. Its a con game.


43 posted on 03/28/2012 10:30:37 AM PDT by marron
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN
"We the People" are the rulers of this land. If we wish to continue, we better observe the following:

Pro 29:14 The king that faithfully judgeth the poor, his throne shall be established for ever.

Dan 4:27 Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.

Jer 22:15 Shalt thou reign, because thou closest [thyself] in cedar? did not thy father eat and drink, and do judgment and justice, [and] then [it was] well with him?Jer 22:16 He judged the cause of the poor and needy; then [it was] well [with him: was] not this to know me? saith the LORD.

Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil. Rom 13:5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. Rom 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Rom 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute [is due]; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

While rulers can be evil and such rulers have to be dealt with. Generally scripture clear supports rulers and tells us to pay tributes and dues. It does not say that such taxes are theft.

When such taxes are duly voted upon by the elected representatives of "We the People", how do people accuse those whom scripture calls God's ministers of theft?

44 posted on 03/28/2012 10:32:58 AM PDT by DannyTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN
"We the People" are the rulers of this land. If we wish to continue, we better observe the following:

Pro 29:14 The king that faithfully judgeth the poor, his throne shall be established for ever.

Dan 4:27 Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.

Jer 22:15 Shalt thou reign, because thou closest [thyself] in cedar? did not thy father eat and drink, and do judgment and justice, [and] then [it was] well with him?Jer 22:16 He judged the cause of the poor and needy; then [it was] well [with him: was] not this to know me? saith the LORD.

Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil. Rom 13:5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. Rom 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Rom 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute [is due]; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

While rulers can be evil and such rulers have to be dealt with. Generally scripture clear supports rulers and tells us to pay tributes and dues. It does not say that such taxes are theft.

When such taxes are duly voted upon by the elected representatives of "We the People", how do people accuse those whom scripture calls God's ministers of theft?

45 posted on 03/28/2012 10:33:12 AM PDT by DannyTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: marron
"Sleight of hand."

I agree with you that there is a constant battle for balance, with the left trying to use the poor to overextend government, and the right trying to restore balance.

But there is some in the GOP, which I believe the article was addressing which claim that government has no business helping the poor. The scriptures in the article and the scriptures I posted indicate that is indeed a proper governmental role. It does not negate the mandate for individuals to help the poor. The mandate to government is in addition to the individual mandate and the church mandate.

46 posted on 03/28/2012 10:36:52 AM PDT by DannyTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: kathsua
Many members of the Republican Party have a problem with this same sin. So why do Christians in the Republican Party encourage this sin by supporting low taxes for those with high incomes? Why do Christians support Republicans who don't believe in helping the poor?
 
 
~SNIP~
 

Christian Republicans need to recognize that abortion and sexual morality aren't the only moral issues in politics. Mistreatment of the poor and how the rich acquire wealth are at least as important. Christians need to move away from the greedy Republicans who believe the rich should escape the taxes needed to fund government.


 
I can't believe this garbage was blogged at Townhall. And I can't believe you fell for it.
 
IBTZ 

47 posted on 03/28/2012 10:43:06 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua
"Many members of the Republican Party have a problem with this same sin. So why do Christians in the Republican Party encourage this sin by supporting low taxes for those with high incomes? Why do Christians support Republicans who don't believe in helping the poor?"

Unlike the author of those words, Christian Republicans can separate out the role that we might expect from society as a whole, in all its elements, and the role of government.

The politicized benevolence of government is not Christian charity, and its not even about giving. Its about taking; that is taking from your neighbors what you think they don't deserve to fund the benevolence that is of your choosing.

Being a democracy does not take away the fact that it - government benevolence - is a taking. It's still 51 out of 100 telling the other 49 what will be done whether they like it or not. Nothing Christian or charitable about that.

Luke and other gospels carry a statement by Jesus about the problem facing the rich. " Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God." Luke 18:24-5

The moral lesson in those verses is not that the problem is the fact that the rich man is rich, or even that he should not have become so rich. The moral lesson is that the wealth of the rich man can be a moral hazard for the rich man. He can buy immunity from the law from corrupt officials. He can try to buy love. He can betray love, using his wealth escaping into depravity. He can act, throug his wealth, in dozens of ways where with his wealth he may behave as if he is "getting away" with things that morally even he knows are wrong; things a man of low means would not even think of attempting. The moral lesson about the rich man is that his riches can tempt him in ways that only riches can. The rich man has more temptations put in front of him. His life is filled with many more opportunities for temptation to steer him to do wrong. It is harder for the rich man to get into heaven NOT because he is rich but because the opportunity to give into temptation is greater in his life. That's what those verses are about.

Ignorant Liberals preach about some "lower tax" not taking enough from someone, someone they think "deserves" to pay more.

They are ignorant, because if the effort is for greater revenue, for whatever purpose, they would learn the lessons from economists who demonstrate that "higher" taxes most often do not generate higher revenue (no matter how much "more" they think they're taxing someone) and "lower" taxes quite often do generate more revenue.

48 posted on 03/28/2012 10:49:21 AM PDT by Wuli
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua

> Why do Christians support Republicans who don’t believe in helping the poor?

What an IDJIT!

Helping the poor must be done by GIVING, NOT BY GOVERNMENT CONFISCATION BY THREAT OF FORCE!!!

What is it about the difference between Charity and Theft that these LOSERS just don’t understand?

“Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.”
~ 2nd Corinthians 2:9


49 posted on 03/28/2012 10:52:59 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kathsua
Says Ezk. 16:50:

“And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw [good].”

It was their moral abominations that caused Sodom's demise.

50 posted on 03/28/2012 10:54:50 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-67 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson