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Can Obama's Relection be a Good Thing for Conservatives?
Red County ^ | 3/30/12 | Ben Barrack

Posted on 03/30/2012 2:25:10 PM PDT by Ben Barrack

Conservatives are disheartened. It's becoming increasingly apparent that Mitt Romney will be the Republican nominee in the fight to defeat Barack Obama. If four years of Jimmy Carter so awakened Republican voters that they nominated Ronald Reagan, why has nearly four years of Jimmy Carter on steroids so sedated Republican voters that they've decided to nominate the equivalent of Gerald Ford as the best option for defeating him?

In large part, the establishment insists on it and, like Obama, seems disinterested in the will of the people. This establishment is so invested in Romney that it is overlooking the potential consequences of one very real possibility.

What if he loses? The establishment's credibility will have been torpedoed. Yes, at great expense, but torpedoed nonetheless.

If you thought the Tea Party was angry in 2009, just wait until 2013 if Barack Obama is sworn in for a second term after defeating Mitt Romney. For starters, conservative voters will be outraged at any Republican Senator, Congressman or Governor who helped shove Romney down their throats. Accountability could take on an entirely new meaning and those elected leaders will have their feet held to the fire like never before. Romney's name will be added to the long list of liberal Republicans who couldn't seal the deal. Any attempt by establishment elitists to point to Goldwater as evidence that conservatism can't win will be met with sardonic laughter that hopefully drives a stake through the heart of the argument.

Consider the example Fast and Furious, an operation that is not only being revealed as something akin to Watergate with murder but could very likely implicate the heads of nearly every major department and agency in the Obama Administration, to include DHS, DOJ, the FBI, and the State Department. There have been multiple reports that House Speaker John Boehner has asked Oversight Committee chairman Darrell Issa (R-CA) to back off of his investigation, ostensibly because of how high it could go.

While appearing on the Fox News Channel, Judson Phillips, the founder of Tea Party Nation was visibly frustrated at the lack of interest on the part of Republican Party leadership relative to being more aggressive with Attorney General Eric Holder. Judson went on to say the following:

“What my friends in Washington tell me is that Boehner says what he learned from the 1995 government shutdown is ‘you never pick a fight with the president.’”

If Romney loses to Obama, Boehner will be forced to pick that fight.

If Judson is correct, it points to Boehner being more interested in running out the clock – with the November election representing the final whistle – than in a dogged pursuit of justice, regardless of where it leads. Avoiding a showdown could conceivably allow Attorney General Eric Holder, FBI Director Robert Mueller, DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano, and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to skate – depending on their respective levels of involvement – instead of facing impeachment and removal from office for high crimes and misdemeanors.

Boehner has most certainly come across as disinterested in commenting on the scandal publicly and won't deviate from a short statement of support for what Issa's committee is doing. It would seem that Issa is wrestling with quite the Executive Branch behemoth and could use a greater show of public support from the House Speaker.

If there are any stories the establishment wants to see go away after the election, the ones about Obama's Birth Certificate, Social Security number, and Selective Service registration are at the top of the list. Such concerns are irrelevant, they say. Besides, the election is less than one year away and it's pointless to entertain the notion. The implication is that Joe Arpaio's investigation, even if it yields anything of substance, will be anti-climactic because Obama will be out of office and everyone will have moved on.

That is, unless he wins. Then what? If you thought the Birthers were loud before, just wait and see what happens if Obama is reelected.

Not only will the Birthers – who generally don't come across as avid Romney supporters – have four more years to continue their incessant drumbeat of demands for answers to their eligibility questions but the establishment that has made every attempt to ignore them will have been roundly defeated and, consequently, forced into a position of having to listen. With the wind knocked out of the establishment, its members will also be barraged with demands that they reconcile with their base (not the other way around) for supporting yet another in a long line of incredibly pathetic candidates. As much as the elites won't want to admit it, the Republican Party agenda could be set by conservative voters who were ignored by an establishment that still doesn't get it.

Tolerance will be in very short supply.

The sad prospect of Romney as the nominee is seemingly trumped only by the prospect that Obama could get a second term, which is made more likely, some believe, if Romney is nominated. Establishment, general election Republican losers like John McCain and Bob Dole have endorsed Romney, as have Governors Chris Christie and Nikki Haley. Tea Party favorites Marco Rubio and Christine O'Donnell have as well. A dangerous type of groupthink seems to have set in among Republican politicians that has generated a bizzare coalescence around a liberal candidate when the time is ripe for a conservative one.

For crying out loud, serial liar Howard Dean said the Democrats fear a face-off with Romney most over all the Republican candidates. Those of us who understand liberal tactics know that Dean means the exact opposite; that's why he said it. It'd be like a head coach proclaiming that his team fears facing his opponent's back up quarterback in an attempt to fool the other coach into starting him. Republican elites aren't as smart, apparently. They've been told by Howard Dean that their third string quaterback gives them their best chance and, by gum, they believe it.

Something else almost certain to happen after Romney's nomination; his religion will be thoroughly vetted by the liberal media. Most Americans know little to nothing about Mormonism but that is all going to change with Romney's nomination. According to a Gallup poll, 22% of Americans are hesitant about voting for a Mormon. Some argue that Mormonism is antithetical to Chrisitianity; some argue that it isn't; still others don't much care. One thing is certain. Everyone will know more about it with Romney as the Republican nominee for president. That, too, should be a good thing no matter what side you're on.

Don't lose heart, conservatives. Instead, check out Romans 8:28, which says:

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

In 2013, the Republican elites could find themselves at the intersection of 'be careful what you wish for' and 'sleeping in the bed you made.'

I hope they're preparing for both.

Ben Barrack is a talk show host on KTEM 1400 in Texas benbarrack.com


TOPICS: Government; History; Politics; Religion
KEYWORDS: barackobama; blogwhore; election; mittromney; republicanparty
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To: LS; sickoflibs; stephenjohnbanker; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
Purist conservatives, the holier than thous, better figure out that we will have ONE chance to stop Obama, but many, many chances to slow down or stop Romney.

get over yerself...we HAD a chance, actually several of them since the 90s to stop bambam, and each was pissed away by the brokers in the early run-up to the elections, resulting in the inevitable *lesser of evils* and guilt trip rhetoric...

just by the 'holier than thous' and '*purist* conservatives' language, you admit that you KNOW that your 'lesser than' advocacy somehow is superior to us less enlightened and undeserving proles...your condescending tone is noted, and rejected...

for that, you can simply kiss my 'holier than thou' ass and enroll in an English 101 course, and maybe you'll realize that theres no box on the ballot to vote *against* a candidate, and that a vote *for* someone indicates the voters approval of said candidate...

since i physically cant vote against bambam, and i intellectually/morally cant vote for any of the losers being pushed to *REPRESENT* me, my family or my country, you might need to prepare for the worst, because *WE* arent playin that game this time...

if you want to live in FEAR and cower to the dictates of the rin-o-p and rnc,fine... Im done with the flying circus that is fed politics.../rant

101 posted on 04/01/2012 1:14:10 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: stephenjohnbanker
We can’t allow Obama back in without a fight. Civil War would become ontological certitude.

nobody wants/wanted a cival war...too bad nobody listened when we voiced opinions to change course 10, 20 , 30 or 50 + yrs ago...now its inevitable, and id rather do it, than make my kids do it for me...

THAT, my FRiend, is UNacceptable...

102 posted on 04/01/2012 1:18:03 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

You are really scaring me sjb...we are on the same side of this argument.

No matter what one thinks of Repubs in general, four more years of Obama will be unimaginably bad.


103 posted on 04/01/2012 1:38:43 PM PDT by A.Hun (Common sense is no longer common.)
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To: Gilbo_3

” THAT, my FRiend, is UNacceptable...”

None of this is acceptable.


104 posted on 04/01/2012 2:02:09 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker; LS; Gilbo_3; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
RE :”SOL....do you know a FReeper more conservative than me?
Please name him. 60,000 posts of despising RINOS, and pounding on the House & Senate as gutless, spineless whores. We can’t allow Obama back in without a fight. Civil War would become ontological certitude. HORRIBLE $hit would transpire!!

...and you are a good guy too. I am not telling you what to do, that is your conscience.

However those Republicans who give Romney a blank check to promote any liberal policy he wants under the guise that only he can save America (and they are lining up in droves just as Gilbo and I said they would), they are looking for lots of self induced pain.

I see the past week or so Romney ALREADY said that man-induced global warming is a serious problem. He didn't even wait till he wrapped up the primary.

He says he is for raising the Federal minimum wage. Seems like that is something states can do on their own.

105 posted on 04/01/2012 4:34:33 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : "I will just make insurance companies give you health care for 'free, What Mandates??' ")
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To: sickoflibs; stephenjohnbanker; LS; Gilbo_3; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas

” I am not telling you what to do, that is your conscience.”

I don’t have one anymore.

If we had had any leadership at ALL, Obama would be in the 30’s. The blood is on the GOPe for this outrage, should it come to blood. I can understand that the Dims have moved hard left, as I could see that coming 20+ years ago. I NEVER thought I would see the D.C. Republicans 50% weaker than Trent Lott. It is almost unbearable to watch these cowards hide in a cave, afraid of offending a black man.


106 posted on 04/01/2012 5:06:07 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker; LS; Gilbo_3; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas

As I have said before, I will be watching closely to see what Romney does after he feels he has safely won the nomination, assuming that happens.

Will he flip his positions back to his liberal ones ?

Will he sound convincing?

Will he attack Obama?

It is possible he could surprise me.


107 posted on 04/01/2012 6:53:02 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : "I will just make insurance companies give you health care for 'free, What Mandates??' ")
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To: sickoflibs

Yeah, it will be interesting.


108 posted on 04/01/2012 7:04:33 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: sickoflibs

Yeah, it will be interesting.


109 posted on 04/01/2012 7:04:50 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: Ben Barrack

The real question is: Would Obama’s re-election be good for the country?

The answer: No.


110 posted on 04/01/2012 7:05:51 PM PDT by bootless (Never Forget. Never Again. (PursuingLiberty.com))
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To: Gilbo_3
RE :”if you want to live in FEAR and cower to the dictates of the rin-o-p and rnc,fine... Im done with the flying circus that is fed politics.../rant

I can always count on you :)

You know they are terrified when the tell us they would vote for Stalin to beat Obama.

111 posted on 04/01/2012 7:44:57 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : "I will just make insurance companies give you health care for 'free, What Mandates??' ")
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To: Impy; Ben Barrack; cripplecreek; sickoflibs; AuH2ORepublican; fieldmarshaldj; LS; BillyBoy; ...
I think your post is thoughtful and balanced. I think you might agree with me that Romney has left us lots of hints that he might do outrageous things (from a conservative point of view).

Well you know there are distinct advantages to losing despite the obvious extreme drawbacks. The Supreme Court is by far the biggest drawback.

Assuming Romney beat Obama in 2012. Then

Case 1: Scalia or Kennedy, or both, retire or die before 2017 (would turn 80 in 2016). I would guess that Romney would appoint people who are not as far left as O's would be, but "moderates" on the SCOTUS could do a lot of damage. The left has plenty of support in the bureaucracies, just waiting for any excuse. It's possible that he would appoint conservatives, but who knows.

Case 2: Scalia and Kennedy survive until 2017. Romney might be a 1-termer, followed by a leftist monster. Or Romney is reelected, and Scalia and Kennedy, age 84 in 2020, could retire and we go back to case 1.

Obama wins reelection:

Case 1: Scalia or Kennedy, or both, retire or die before 2017. I think it's almost certain that Obama appoints a very far left stooge or 2, and the GOP goes through the motions of asking questions, but does not block the nomination.

Case 2: Scalia and Kennedy survive 4 years. Either a GOP candidate (could be Romney) or a Dem will be the new POTUS. Good chance of electing a R in 2016, perhaps better than Romney, but far less likely it would be Coolidge, Eisenhower, or Reagan. We might lose the chance for a GOP POTUS better than Romney to replace conservative justices who left between 2013-2016.

Ginsberg, Breyer, and Thomas could leave the court too. This is an extremely complex probability problem, not a logic problem.

The midterm election is the biggest plus. Obama wiped out Bush fatigue and 2 elections of solid rat gain in 2 short years.

Another plus is not having a GWB "see you at the signing," paving the way for another Obama. If Romney wins, I hope that does not occur, but Romney's past is not very reassuring.

If the court overturns Obamacare that would take a lot of the sting out of it. But if they court upholds it and Obama wins then socialist medicine is here to stay forever and ever.

That ugly possibility worries me too.

So I don’t think it’s worth the risk, God help me I’d take a flyer on a RINO and hope they aren’t as big a disaster as the last RINO. If Romney wins as is as big a RINO as most of us think then we can’t win either way.

As I said, the possibilities are extremely complex. I have not decided whether to vote or not (of course I won't vote for O.), because Romney might be worse than Obama, e. g. he might flip again on amnesty and take the GOP down the way GWB did. My wife has already declared she won't vote for POTUS this time.

112 posted on 04/01/2012 7:58:05 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas

Man, the whole situation is as ugly as ugly gets.

But this much is clear...if Obama wins, nothing will stop him from destroying America.


113 posted on 04/01/2012 8:02:53 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Impy; stephenjohnbanker; Gilbo_3
RE :”Scalia or Kennedy, or both, retire or die before 2017

Scalia will never voluntarily retire while Obama is POTUS. I suspect Kennedy feels similarly.
That means there is little chance that the court will change the next 4 years. I wouldn't make their retirement the basis for my decision.

Suppose Kennedy or Scalia retires in 2017 due to health problems after a Romney POTUS is such a disaster that Dems take the WH and Senate again?

See?? It's not so easy to forcast.

114 posted on 04/01/2012 8:27:20 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : "I will just make insurance companies give you health care for 'free, What Mandates??' ")
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To: sickoflibs
hehehe...I cannot tolerate the same old fearmongering this time...i had enuff with the run-up to mcqueeg, and only backed off because SP was mostly unknown, and started out tough with her first speech...

that was about all the hope&change i had left for reach around the aisle politics, or worse, utter capitulation by our *reps*...

rand paul is about the only vote ive ever made that i dont regret...wish we had 100 like him, and just one for POTUS...NOT his daddy tho...hehehehe...

I will NOT compromise my principles again...

115 posted on 04/01/2012 8:28:06 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Gilbo_3
I cannot tolerate the same old fearmongering this time

Codespeak Alert

116 posted on 04/01/2012 8:30:37 PM PDT by Chunga (Ron Paul is a fruitcakey jackass.)
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To: Ben Barrack
Can Obama's Relection be a Good Thing for Conservatives?

That's possible ONLY if the conservative justices on the Supreme Court survive four more years. In fact, I hope they're immortal, especially if Massachusetts Mittens somehow gets elected, because Mittens is the next David Souter appointment waiting to happen.

117 posted on 04/01/2012 8:35:05 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Ben Barrack
If obama is elected conservatives will be the equivalent of Jews under Hitler!
118 posted on 04/01/2012 8:42:36 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: Gilbo_3
RE :”I will NOT compromise my principles again..

You HAVE TO. Vote for the RINO or the puppy gets it.

It could save us a whole 2 or 3 years before the country implodes.

119 posted on 04/01/2012 8:43:17 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : "I will just make insurance companies give you health care for 'free, What Mandates??' ")
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To: sickoflibs
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2866117/posts?page=116#116

you got a pic of the 'not this $h!t again' guy ???

120 posted on 04/01/2012 10:59:50 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: sickoflibs; Impy; stephenjohnbanker; Gilbo_3
Scalia will never voluntarily retire while Obama is POTUS. I suspect Kennedy feels similarly. That means there is little chance that the court will change the next 4 years. I wouldn't make their retirement the basis for my decision.

No, I would hardly say "little chance." Either could become incapacitated, or die in 4 years. You are aware that Scalia and Kennedy would be 80 in 2016? I wish them very good health!

Life expectancy:

Suppose Kennedy or Scalia retires in 2017 due to health problems after a Romney POTUS is such a disaster that Dems take the WH and Senate again? See?? It's not so easy to forcast.

Good point. I did think of such possibilities too. In my post I accidentally put "We might lose the chance for a GOP POTUS better than Romney to replace conservative justices who left between 2013-2016" in the wrong place. I meant to say that if Romney wins in 2012 and they retire in his second term, we might get mediocre justices or worse from Romney, but if Obama won in 2012 and we elected a conservative POTUS in 2016 (the years that would have been Romney's 2nd term), that might work out better. Or Romney might appoint better judges than we think, who knows.

But I never said anything to lead anyone to believe that it's easy to predict the future, and certainly not that we elect a GOP POTUS and we live happily ever after. One of the major points of my post was that it is NOT easy to forecast what will happen. For example, I wrote, "This is an extremely complex probability problem, not a logic problem."

It's not just Scalia and Kennedy. Have to think About Thomas, Ginsberg, Souter (who is a reminder of what kind of appointments a "compassionate conservative" might make, but Bush 1 also appointed Thomas).

I could try to think of a lot more possibilities and include them, but nobody would want to read the extremely long post that might result.

Bottom line, even if Romney beats Obama, the SCOTUS could still turn out badly. I won't vote for O, but I don't know if Romney would be good either. Sometimes I wonder if the GOP aristocrats even suspect how deeply I resent what GWB did.

121 posted on 04/02/2012 1:06:45 AM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: sickoflibs; stephenjohnbanker; LS; Gilbo_3; DoughtyOne; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Impy
I see the past week or so Romney ALREADY said that man-induced global warming is a serious problem. He didn't even wait till he wrapped up the primary.

I can't find any recent PUBLIC Romney pro-global-warming statements. However, his staff has some sleazy characters:

Link: Among the advisors to the Romney campaign on these issues today is James Connaughton, formerly head of the Bush White House Council of Environmental Quality, and a long time ardent supporter of cap and trade. Another is Jeff Holmstead, Bush EPA Air Chief who promoted global warming hysteria, and an interstate clean air rule providing the precedent for Obama's job and economy destroying Cross State Air Pollution Rule. Still another is Edward Krenick, another former Bush EPA supporter of cap and trade. No wonder highly active global warming skeptic James Taylor says that Romney's people on global warming are as bad as Obama's people.

And remember Holdren, Obama's science czar who wanted to "de-develop" the USA? As gov of Mass., Romney used him as a high level advisor. AFAIK he is not on Romney's staff now.

122 posted on 04/02/2012 4:25:00 AM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Impy; stephenjohnbanker; Gilbo_3
RE :”Scalia will never voluntarily retire while Obama is POTUS. I suspect Kennedy feels similarly. That means there is little chance that the court will change the next 4 years. I wouldn't make their retirement the basis for my decision.......
No, I would hardly say “little chance.” Either could become incapacitated, or die in 4 years. You are aware that Scalia and Kennedy would be 80 in 2016? I wish them very good health!

Again, putting all your chips on the bet that they will die or be incapactitated in the next four years and not any time after that is like betting on the lotto with a large part of your life savings.

That life expectancy curve you shown is completely meaningless to this discussion showing 76/81 as the (Average ???) life expectance without knowing how it was generated or who the samples were.
Try a life expectancy curve based on actual SCOTUS justices, not a sample that includes those on welfare with high blood pressure and diabetes.

123 posted on 04/02/2012 5:22:45 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : "I will just make insurance companies give you health care for 'free, What Mandates??' ")
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To: Gilbo_3

What is he selling now? It was Palin before.


124 posted on 04/02/2012 6:07:49 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : "I will just make insurance companies give you health care for 'free, What Mandates??' ")
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To: sickoflibs
That means there is little chance that the court will change the next 4 years. I wouldn't make their retirement the basis for my decision.

For conservatives, the makeup of the Supreme Court is always a consideration when voting for president, and this time it's a more important consideration than ever. The Constitution is under full assault by this administration. We need constructionists nominated to every federal judicial position in the country.

125 posted on 04/02/2012 6:42:35 AM PDT by Chunga (Ron Paul is a fruitcakey jackass.)
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To: Chunga; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Impy; stephenjohnbanker; Gilbo_3
RE :”For conservatives, the makeup of the Supreme Court is always a consideration when voting for president, and this time it's a more important consideration than ever. The Constitution is under full assault by this administration. We need constructionists nominated to every federal judicial position in the country.

That really doesn't tell me anything.

Betting on both:

1) Scalia and/or Kennedy will retire/die in the next four years and not any time after that.
2) Liberal Romney would appoint anything like a Scalia

is a very risky bet.

Yes, GWB re-election did eventually result in two very good justices, but it also resulting in Republicans being so despised and untrusted that Dems were able to take the WH with two major congressional victories :2006 and 2008 to get much of their agenda accomplished.

That resulted in two terrible justices that Obama got with little resistance.

I can easily imagine the liberal Romney POTUS being so bad that Dems win again big in 2016. It's pretty easy to do.

126 posted on 04/02/2012 6:56:14 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : "I will just make insurance companies give you health care for 'free, What Mandates??' ")
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To: Chunga
We need constructionists nominated to every federal judicial position in the country

Mitt Romney was a student of a real Constitutional scholar, Cleon Skousen. It is at least partly on this basis that some Republican intelligentsia can claim he is a 'conservative'. But it's very clear the Romney knows and rejects 'constructionist' views of the Constitution.

Think more Souters on the Supreme Court...

127 posted on 04/02/2012 6:56:35 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: sickoflibs; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Impy; stephenjohnbanker; Gilbo_3

“1) Scalia and/or Kennedy will retire/die in the next four years and not any time after that.
2) Liberal Romney would appoint anything like a Scalia

is a very risky bet.”

With Obama, think Sotomayor and the Bulldyke. We KNOW what vermin HE will appoint.


128 posted on 04/02/2012 8:16:38 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: sickoflibs; stephenjohnbanker; Gilbo_3; Chunga; Impy; jjotto; DoughtyOne
Again, putting all your chips on the bet that they will die or be incapacitated in the next four years and not any time after that is like betting on the lotto with a large part of your life savings.

I am assuming that you used the word "you" in that sentence as you would use the word "one" as in "Putting all one's chips....," because I am not assuming either outcome. But in a sense, we have to bet our chips on Romney, or bet against him (by not voting at all -- I assume nobody here is voting for O). I am saying that the possibility that Scalia and Kennedy will not be able to serve is real, not certain. They really do get old.

My earlier post in this dialogue discussed cases in which they could serve longer than 2016. I noted that in some of those cases, a Romney presidency could result in worse justices than an Obama presidency.

It may come to pass that both of them do fine and live to the age of 100. I hope they do. But nobody knows.

That life expectancy curve you shown is completely meaningless to this discussion showing 76/81 as the (Average ???) life expectance without knowing how it was generated or who the samples were.

I don't think it is "completely meaningless." In any case, it is based on real numbers, but I put it there to illustrate that men near the age of 80 are more likely to have health problems than 50 year olds. That is why all the justices in the last 30 years except Ginsburg were in their 50s when they were appointed. I think you really do understand that the probability that either of the two justices either dies or becomes incapacitated is greater than the probability of one dying.

Try a life expectancy curve based on actual SCOTUS justices, not a sample that includes those on welfare with high blood pressure and diabetes.

I think you know that the sample would be too small, and extremely inaccurate, including 18th century justices. But maybe there is a more accurate way to estimate what their odds are. I do not pretend to know what the exact numbers are, but I know they are not zero, and they could be greater than you think.

In my opinion, Obama appointing a replacement for Scalia or Kennedy would be a defilement of this nation. But a failed Romney presidency, followed by a new leftist swine POTUS replacing those justices, would be just as painful and shameful. And our votes make one or the other of those outcomes possible.

I believe that electing Romney is such a gamble, at least at this point, that I don't know whether it is possible to make a rational decision to vote for him or not vote for him in the general election.

129 posted on 04/02/2012 8:37:01 AM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: sickoflibs

dont know, and dont care what *it* has to sell...rabble-rousers are irritating and are either statists or too fearful to be of any help...


130 posted on 04/02/2012 8:51:05 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: sickoflibs; Chunga; Impy; stephenjohnbanker; Gilbo_3
Yes, GWB re-election did eventually result in two very good justices, but it also resulting in Republicans being so despised and untrusted that Dems were able to take the WH with two major congressional victories :2006 and 2008 to get much of their agenda accomplished. That resulted in two terrible justices that Obama got with little resistance.

And it is quite possible that, in case R had to replace conservatives on the scotus, he would appoint "moderates." But the next leftist in the WH would appoint leftist demons to replace Ginsburg and Breyer (Clinton appointees, would not voluntarily retire with a GOP POTUS in charge). Not a good trade.

I can easily imagine the liberal Romney POTUS being so bad that Dems win again big in 2016. It's pretty easy to do.

Agree.

131 posted on 04/02/2012 8:55:17 AM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; Gilbo_3; Chunga; Impy; jjotto; DoughtyOne
RE:”In my opinion, Obama appointing a replacement for Scalia or Kennedy would be a defilement of this nation. But a failed Romney presidency, followed by a new leftist swine POTUS replacing those justices, would be just as painful and shameful. And our votes make one or the other of those outcomes possible.
I believe that electing Romney is such a gamble, at least at this point, that I don't know whether it is possible to make a rational decision to vote for him or not vote for him in the general election.

Exactly ! And those comments are not personally directed at you.

I suggest we all follow our conscience in this terrible decision but those that pretend to know with absolute certainty that this country will be better off after 4 years of a Romney POTUS (considering the next election after that) , or that know that Kennedy or Scalia will retire in the next 4 years, or that Romney would appoint a justice that we will find acceptable, or that they even know what a Romney POTUS would really do, are just making it up.

Let's watch the race develop.

BTW : If Romney is really our last hope then maybe Newt and RS should not have spent so much time attacking him, Newt used the OWS ‘envy the rich’ attacks against him, and RS just said Obama would be a better POTUS than Romney, I didn't find those helpful. Romney's polling way below Obama now.

132 posted on 04/02/2012 9:02:33 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : "I will just make insurance companies give you health care for 'free, What Mandates??' ")
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; sickoflibs
enjoying the 'what ifs' about SCOTUS...but lets be realistic...

theres NO guarantee that any of em live or die, nor any of us beyond the next keystroke...

that said, even with a marginally 'conservative' court [cough, spit], we only got a 5-4 on Heller and mcDonald, two cases directly bearing on a simple phrase "Shall NOT be infringed"...

the court, even when/if it gets a correct 'interpretation' then diminishes the Rights further by watering down the upheld Right with drivel that becomes future weighted opinion...

even further, whats [who] to stop bambam from simply EOing anything, or even doubling the number of justices and appointing them whenever he decides he needs to ???

SCOTUS *should* be an important factor...but its hit or miss how any 'conservative' justice acts once tenuured for life...

again, our issues come back to how our *reps* have acted the last 40+ yrs in allowing socialists to be rubberstamped into SCOTUS while simultaneously cowing to pressure in support of decent jurists...

NOT my fault/problem now...

133 posted on 04/02/2012 9:04:18 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: sickoflibs; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; Gilbo_3; Chunga; Impy; jjotto; ...

I own a business. I must pick a CEO to run it.

My only choices are Romney and Obama

1) Romney, I cannot trust at all, but he has an MBA, and doesn’t hate the business. He could be lousy, and hurt the business.

@) Obama despises all private businesses, despises the free enterprise system, despises our products, and will hire only those who think as he does. He will certainly destroy, bankrupt the business in 4 years.

There you are.

Which one do I choose to run it?


134 posted on 04/02/2012 9:13:15 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: Gilbo_3; sickoflibs
that said, even with a marginally 'conservative' court [cough, spit], we only got a 5-4 on Heller and mcDonald, two cases directly bearing on a simple phrase "Shall NOT be infringed"..

Here's another one (Commonwealth of Massachusetts et al. v. Environmental Protection Agency), Roberts, Alito, Scalia and Thomas vote co2 is not a "pollutant," Kennedy votes with the 4 demons that it is:

The Natural Resources Defense Council said in a statement that the ruling "repudiates the Bush administration's do-nothing policy on global warming," undermining the government's refusal to view carbon dioxide as an air pollutant subject to EPA regulation.

135 posted on 04/02/2012 9:20:59 AM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

Well put. I would say it’s a ‘no-brainer’ - but the brainless around here can’t wait to broadcast how they would rather pick Peter Pan or some other fantasy third choice instead.


136 posted on 04/02/2012 9:23:00 AM PDT by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: stephenjohnbanker; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Gilbo_3; Chunga; Impy
RE :”I own a business. I must pick a CEO to run it.
My only choices are Romney and Obama

Except :

1) You don't personally own the US
2) You don't get to personally determine the POTUS this year.
3) You don't get to determine the POTUS in 2016 either.

How about this?

You have three choices :

1) Choose Obama and be responsible legally and financially for everything he does, if he cheats you go to jail with all personal assets forfeited.

2) Choose Romney and be responsible legally and financially for everything he does, if he cheats you go to jail with all personal assets forfeited.

3) Disown them both, the decision is made by someone else who is responsible legally and financially for everything he does.

Would you be willing to defend every position Romney takes? I already know the answer.

137 posted on 04/02/2012 9:27:38 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : "I will just make insurance companies give you health care for 'free, What Mandates??' ")
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Gilbo_3; stephenjohnbanker; Impy
I disagree with Gilbo on this one, Alito and Roberts have made a huge difference for the positive.

I remember the O Conner court and that was like flipping a coin. She had NO consistent judicial philosophy and stuck her finger in the wind for decisions. The MSM called her ‘moderate’ because she had no consistent princples

138 posted on 04/02/2012 10:03:41 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : "I will just make insurance companies give you health care for 'free, What Mandates??' ")
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To: sickoflibs; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Gilbo_3; Chunga; Impy

“3) Disown them both, the decision is made by someone else who is responsible legally and financially for everything he does.”

No POTUS? Youze changing the rules.....and I know you know what I think of the Romulan : )

Here it is. If Obama gets back in, he will either take down our country, or we will stop him, via uprising. The uprising would be brutal(not going to go into the gory details). Maybe there IS no choice, but be forewarned....if the uprising DOES NOT happen, I believe the country is finished. We don’t know how much pain the citizens of America will take. Will they fight, or roll over. Nobody knows for sure. FReeper Travis McGee is one of the very brightest we have. He doesn’t know either. Ask him. And HE has been in combat.

Now, I will be the first one to tell you I’m flummoxed. The choices are unbearable. If Obama gets back in would I defend our country? Yes. Would YOU? I would bet yes. The average FReeper? Probably. The average American? Aye.....there’s the rub! This is not a chess game here.
This is our country.


139 posted on 04/02/2012 10:03:48 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Gilbo_3; Chunga; Impy
RE :”Here it is. If Obama gets back in, he will either take down our country, or we will stop him, via uprising. The uprising would be brutal(not going to go into the gory details). Maybe there IS no choice, but be forewarned....if the uprising DOES NOT happen, I believe the country is finished.

Except as we have learned from 2007 to 2008, then 2009 to 2010 that it is possible that Republicans will rally and protest in mass against socialism, but only if the POTUS is a Democrat not a Republican.

If Romney is POTUS he has the loaded gun against the puppies head. His blank check to make us swallow anything he does his first term : amnesty, cap-and trade, same sex marriage is that if we oppose him we hurt him and we help Dems defeat him, and they will destroy the country. And he will have Dems protesting him from the other side.

Romney : “Support me or the puppy gets it, the country dies if I lose”

With Bush it was : "Support me or the terrorists will kill you"

140 posted on 04/02/2012 10:33:45 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : "I will just make insurance companies give you health care for 'free, What Mandates??' ")
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To: stephenjohnbanker

A lot of people misunderstand the situation. This isn’t about running the federal government, this is about a civil war over slavery.


141 posted on 04/02/2012 10:40:48 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: sickoflibs

Bush is not Obama...In 2012 it is the whore vs. the communist muslim dictator.

Here is a bit of inside info.

I did not vote for Bush the second time, as I was furious at him. My fury proved to be reasonable.

I did not vote for McCain.....my feelings toward him are well-documented here.

McCain was more dangerous than Romney. McCain hates conservatives....it is the driving force in his miserable life.

I had hoped against hope that the Republicans in the House & Senate would fight Obama the traitor, but they have done NOTHING. It is clear that they never will.

Obama sees this, and is beyond emboldened by their cowardice. If he gets a second term, he will destroy us.

I don’t even know what to do, but rest assured, Obama will destroy this country, save for a civil war.

Some choice, eh ?


142 posted on 04/02/2012 10:52:13 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: jjotto

” A lot of people misunderstand the situation. This isn’t about running the federal government, this is about a civil war over slavery.”

FReepers on the whole, can stomach a CW. Does the avg American? We may find out.


143 posted on 04/02/2012 10:57:44 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: jjotto

” “All the extravagance and incompetence of our present Government is due, in the main, to lawyers, and, in part at least, to good ones. They are responsible for nine-tenths of the useless and vicious laws that now clutter the statute-books, and for all the evils that go with the vain attempt to enforce them. Every Federal judge is a lawyer. So are most Congressmen. Every invasion of the plain rights of the citizens has a lawyer behind it. If all lawyers were hanged tomorrow, and their bones sold to a mah jong factory, we’d be freer and safer, and our taxes would be reduced by almost a half.”
—H.L. Mencken (1880-1956), “Breathing Space”, The Baltimore Evening Sun, 1924-08-04. Reprinted in A Carnival of Buncombe. -—————————————————————

If H.L. were to come back alive today, he would die of a heart attack very quickly.


144 posted on 04/02/2012 11:01:44 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: hlmencken3

hehe


145 posted on 04/02/2012 11:23:29 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: stephenjohnbanker
RE:”Bush is not Obama...

Obviously not but some things that Obama did and vRepublicans opposed that they defended when Bush was POTUS.
I mean defending like :”This was good for the country” not like they say now :”Obama forced me to do it”:

146 posted on 04/02/2012 11:26:41 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : "I will just make insurance companies give you health care for 'free, What Mandates??' ")
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To: stephenjohnbanker; sickoflibs; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; NFHale; Travis McGee
I’m flummoxed. The choices are unbearable. If Obama gets back in would I defend our country? Yes. Would YOU? I would bet yes. The average FReeper? Probably. The average American? Aye.....there’s the rub!

besides Faith in The Lord, and His ability to perform His Will on earth, the only real *faith* i have in man is that the III% who are meant to be the *action* wing of the body of people, can and will be sufficient to do the job of protecting our childrens FReedom...

sorry, but im all out of optimism in the political solutions as too little, too late...

maybe if our *reps* wouldve been chosen on PRINCIPLE during the last 40-100 yrs, I wouldnt have to choose the lesser of evil today...

147 posted on 04/02/2012 12:00:12 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Gilbo_3; sickoflibs; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; NFHale; Travis McGee

” sorry, but im all out of optimism in the political solutions as too little, too late...”

Who is optomistic? No reason to be.

“maybe if our *reps* wouldve been chosen on PRINCIPLE during the last 40-100 yrs, I wouldnt have to choose the lesser of evil today...”

The GOP House & Senate, taken as a whole, is completely corrupt, and completely self serving. They will do nothing to stop Obama. They have already proven this.

Like I said, Romney is a POS...Obama is our DEVIL.
I am certain Obama will destroy the country, shy a war.
We’ll then see how many have the guts to stop him. Will Americans roll over, or go EFAD?


148 posted on 04/02/2012 12:17:31 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker; Gilbo_3; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; NFHale; Travis McGee

Gilbo is my favorite, he distrusts Republicans even more than I do.


149 posted on 04/02/2012 1:45:32 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : "I will just make insurance companies give you health care for 'free, What Mandates??' ")
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To: sickoflibs; Gilbo_3; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; NFHale; Travis McGee

” Gilbo is my favorite, he distrusts Republicans even more than I do.”

Who DOES?


150 posted on 04/02/2012 5:51:01 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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