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Union says average teacher with a master's degree makes less than $12k a year after deductions
Capitol Confidential ^ | 4/9/2012 | Tom Gantert

Posted on 04/09/2012 4:56:17 PM PDT by MichCapCon

The Michigan Education Association’s newest strategy is to portray their teachers as underpaid while hoping no one is paying attention to the figures they are using to make their case, says one education policy expert.

“Clearly, their facts are not straight,” said Michael Van Beek, education policy director at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy.

It started when Steve Cook, the MEA’s president, said in a Detroit News op-ed that one teacher who contacted him was in his second year of teaching with a master’s degree and made $31,000 a year.

Michigan Capitol Confidential looked at the contracts of the lowest-paying school districts in the state and couldn’t find a contract that paid a second-year teacher with a master’s degree $31,000 a year.

However, in an interview with another newspaper, Doug Pratt, the MEA's spokesman, took what Cook described as the salary of one teacher and turned that $31,000 into the “average salary” of a second-year teacher with a master’s degree.

It’s hard to imagine any second-year teacher with a master’s degree earning $31,000 a year in Michigan, much less it being the statewide average. Consider that Eau Claire has the lowest average teacher’s salary in the state. The Eau Claire teachers’ contract states a second-year teacher with a master’s degree made $34,385 a year in 2010-11. And districts like the Troy School District pay a second-year teacher with a master’s degree $49,132 in 2011-12.

Neither Pratt nor Cook responded to an email seeking comment.

Pratt told the Livingston Daily News that “the average second-year Michigan teacher with a master's degree currently takes home $500 every two weeks after taxes and employee health care and pension deductions, and if he or she opts for a deduction toward child care.”

In the article, Pratt is attributed with saying that current school employees pay 3.9 percent of their salary toward retirement benefits. James Hohman, a fiscal policy analyst at the Mackinac Center, said teachers contribute on a sliding scale; up to 6.4 percent of their salary to the state pension plan and are paying another 3 percent of their salary for retiree health care. They also can pay up to 20 percent for health care costs under the new state law, but many districts negotiated contracts with lower cost-sharing. For example, that Eau Claire teacher would pay 10 percent of health care costs, or about $1,769 a year for the MESSA family plan.

Van Beek questioned Pratt’s logic of including child care costs and pension contributions when talking about how much after tax money a teacher has in discretionary income.

“It (child care costs) is like adding your grocery bill,” Van Beek said. “It’s a cost that you incur if you have children and decide to work outside the home. It’s a cost everyone incurs one way or another. If you have kids you have to take on costs to take care of them. Just like you have to eat to live, you have to buy food.”

Van Beek said that pension contribution will generate a yearly pension of about $30,000 to $40,000 during retirement and shouldn’t be considered a cost, but a savings.

“They can retire when they are 55 and have subsidized post-retirement health care benefits and have a defined-benefit pension that grows by 3 percent every year,” Van Beek said.


TOPICS: Education
KEYWORDS: nea; school; teacherpay; teachers; unions

1 posted on 04/09/2012 4:56:25 PM PDT by MichCapCon
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To: MichCapCon

Those are probably “Net” earnings, after Union Dues are deducted.....


2 posted on 04/09/2012 4:59:17 PM PDT by traditional1 (Don't gotsta worry 'bout no mo'gage, don't gotsta worry 'bout no gas; Obama gonna take care o' me!)
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To: MichCapCon

Typical school year is 180 days.


3 posted on 04/09/2012 5:01:41 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Anybody but Obama, because it's not always about me. Thank God McCain/Palin lost! - Right?)
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To: traditional1

Add back union dues before we talk.


4 posted on 04/09/2012 5:02:00 PM PDT by codder too
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To: NoLibZone

In MI it’s 175 days for a school year.


5 posted on 04/09/2012 5:03:41 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Anybody but Obama, because it's not always about me. Thank God McCain/Palin lost! - Right?)
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To: MichCapCon

Lies....


6 posted on 04/09/2012 5:04:37 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: MichCapCon

BS....Our teachers are making $40,000 and up.


7 posted on 04/09/2012 5:05:46 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: MichCapCon

The average full-time public school teacher will see his or her annual MEA membership dues increased by $111.90, from $457.40 to $569.30 annually, a 25 percent increase.

These dues amounts are in addition to National Education Association (NEA) and local association dues.

http://www.mackinac.org/5181


8 posted on 04/09/2012 5:07:42 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Anybody but Obama, because it's not always about me. Thank God McCain/Palin lost! - Right?)
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To: MichCapCon

http://www.teacherportal.com/district/new-york/rochester-city-school-district


9 posted on 04/09/2012 5:08:10 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: MichCapCon

12 grand and all the underage sex you can grab.


10 posted on 04/09/2012 5:09:13 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (I think in about 5 - no, 4 - years I'll have had enough.)
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To: MichCapCon

So, the main point I gathered was: Taxes are too dang high.

But....

What a load of horse dung those numbers are. He should move here to AR, a masters in Conway will bring you $52k +, and it is a right to work state.


11 posted on 04/09/2012 5:18:03 PM PDT by RobertClark ("Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed")
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To: MichCapCon

Even with the union numbers, they’re still overpaid.


12 posted on 04/09/2012 5:19:55 PM PDT by surely_you_jest
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To: MichCapCon

You keep your nose clean, you work hard and do a decent job, and you’ll make more money as you gain experience and (hopefully) wisdom......are teachers immune to this rule as they are to paying for their own health care and pensions? A 2nd year teacher is still a puppy, Masters or no.


13 posted on 04/09/2012 5:20:26 PM PDT by Some Fat Guy in L.A. (Hope springs eternal - maybe the Bucs will break .500 this year)
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To: MichCapCon

When was the last time that you met a union leader who was not a liar?


14 posted on 04/09/2012 5:23:33 PM PDT by forgotten man (forgotten man)
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To: MichCapCon

Maybe they shouldnt be paying union dues.

I started as a bachelors at 28K a year and bought a house and supported a stay at home wife and a daughter in a new house that I paid for.

It’s called a budget.


15 posted on 04/09/2012 5:30:37 PM PDT by struggle (http://killthegovernment.wordpress.com/)
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To: MichCapCon
“They can retire when they are 55 and have subsidized post-retirement health care benefits and have a defined-benefit pension that grows by 3 percent every year,” Van Beek said

I don't know about the accuracy of that statement either since I know a gal who retired at the age of 48 and a guy who retired at 50........the gal was from the Waterford school district and the guy from the Detroit school system.

16 posted on 04/09/2012 5:30:49 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco
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To: RobertClark

Conway, Arkansas, hometown of Joey Lauren Adams. I lived there 1079-1981. Loved it.


17 posted on 04/09/2012 5:43:11 PM PDT by Terry Mross ("It happened. And we let it happen." - Peter Griffin, Family Guy)
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To: MichCapCon

And many teachers can’t speak English.


18 posted on 04/09/2012 5:44:50 PM PDT by Terry Mross ("It happened. And we let it happen." - Peter Griffin, Family Guy)
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Oh bull-f'ing-shit....

I bet this is some "teachers aide" getting a sweet paid intern gig.

Look, personally, I think good teachers should be paid A LOT! But, the current system simply won't reward those teachers and places the shitbirds on equal terms with the stellar ones. Its the Union way.

I would love to see merit pay / bonus pay for good teachers; but they need to be judged individually based on performance against other peers and the "product" they are turning out; namely our next generation.

I truly loathe unions; they are parasitic.

19 posted on 04/09/2012 5:51:50 PM PDT by Michael Barnes (Obamaa+ Downgrade)
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To: Hot Tabasco

Can’t blame someone working as a teacher in detroit for taking early retirement...


20 posted on 04/09/2012 5:52:10 PM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

I see teachers’ salaries every day in North Carolina. $60,000 is not extraordinary for a teacher with about 15 years service.


21 posted on 04/09/2012 5:56:56 PM PDT by cymbeline
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To: MichCapCon

That’s 6k more than they are worth.


22 posted on 04/09/2012 5:59:25 PM PDT by mamelukesabre (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line)
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To: MichCapCon
It's easy to understand the education machine..telling the population..we need "masters prepared" teachers, therapists, nurses, etc.....It's about $$$$

An MS doesn't mean you are any better..or smarter. I've seen this over an over...first hand. It just means you've jumped thru the hoops...and have different letters behind your name.

I could place 12 letters behind my name...if I wanted to. Doesn't mean I know @#%#$!!

FWIW...folks thinking they want to be "teachers" ought to be researching what they can make. Of course that requires some thinking......................

23 posted on 04/09/2012 6:03:20 PM PDT by Osage Orange (The MSM is the most dangerous entity in the United States of America.)
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To: MichCapCon

You’ve got to forgive goverment educators.

Math isn’t their strong point...or English..or History..or Science...or....


24 posted on 04/09/2012 6:03:20 PM PDT by WeatherGuy
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To: MichCapCon
It's easy to understand the education machine..telling the population..we need "masters prepared" teachers, therapists, nurses, etc.....It's about $$$$

An MS doesn't mean you are any better..or smarter. I've seen this over an over...first hand. It just means you've jumped thru the hoops...and have different letters behind your name.

I could place 12 letters behind my name...if I wanted to. Doesn't mean I know @#%#$!!

FWIW...folks thinking they want to be "teachers" ought to be researching what they can make. Of course that requires some thinking......................

25 posted on 04/09/2012 6:03:45 PM PDT by Osage Orange (The MSM is the most dangerous entity in the United States of America.)
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To: MichCapCon

“Union Says”

Union lies!


26 posted on 04/09/2012 6:07:47 PM PDT by Randy Larsen (No Romney or Santorum vote from my family!)
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To: MichCapCon
Education Association’s newest strategy is to portray their teachers as underpaid

That line is so cut from all the lefts previous advertising that it shows just how stupid the electorate is. They will buy what ever the teachers union says and not think about it for a half a second.

All teachers in the Education Association are living far better than the average parent of the kids they teach. Terrible to have a job that only requires you to work such a grueling work year, and get off EVERY holiday and other day they can on any excuse.

Worse is that work year that is only 9 months long. Then there are sabbaticals and monthly "in-service" days and full education advancement assistance... and more.

And the EA is probably one of the largest and most consistent Dem donors on the political stage.
27 posted on 04/09/2012 6:28:16 PM PDT by JSteff ((((It was ALL about SCOTUS. Most forget about that and HAVE DOOMED us for a generation or more.))))
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To: Randy Larsen
Union says average teacher with a master's degree makes less than $12k a year after deductions

I know someone who is a teacher's aid and she's making over $30K/year.
28 posted on 04/09/2012 6:28:45 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: cymbeline

“... $60,000 is not extraordinary for a teacher with about 15 years...”

In our county, teachers make close to six figures after 9 years. It must depend on the state/county.


29 posted on 04/09/2012 6:29:20 PM PDT by momtothree
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To: MichCapCon

...and the dirty little secret is that if you do report $31k, you get a HUGE windfall from the IRS in the form of the ‘Earned’ Income Credit.


30 posted on 04/09/2012 6:29:38 PM PDT by BobL
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To: MichCapCon

Below is a hundred or so salaries from my daughters school district. The only salaries I found below 40k were janitors, lunch ladies, bus drivers and first year grads were at 34k to 40k. seems that in year two of teaching you get a large raise. These union people are full of it. i removed the names and the name of the school as well. Just note this is a small county I live in. Very rural area. I’m sure when you get close to larger cities the salaries are increased.

http://www.open.georgia.gov/sta/entryPoint.aud

SUPERINTENDENT $118,055.98
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $102,844.56
SPECIAL EDUCATION INTERRELATED $102,713.70
PRINCIPAL $102,228.98
PRINCIPAL $100,108.12
PRINCIPAL $99,523.00
ELEMENTARY COUNSELOR $98,427.14
GRADE 7 TEACHER $97,813.64
FINANCE/BUSINESS SERVICE MGR $97,154.98
SPECIAL EDUCATION INTERRELATED $95,951.00
PRINCIPAL $95,505.91
SPECIAL EDUCATION INTERRELATED $93,531.79
DEPUTY/ASSOC/ASSISTANT SUPT $92,642.04
PRINCIPAL $91,416.04
GRADE 6 TEACHER $90,011.26
PRINCIPAL $88,550.25
DEPUTY/ASSOC/ASSISTANT SUPT $88,129.98
DEPUTY/ASSOC/ASSISTANT SUPT $88,129.98
TECHNOLOGY SPECIALIST $88,129.98
ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL $87,950.41
INSTRUCTIONAL SPECIALIST P-8 $87,730.54
ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL $87,424.03
SPECIAL EDUCATION DIRECTOR $85,740.99
GRADE 5 TEACHER $84,794.88
PRINCIPAL $84,510.38
PRINCIPAL $83,786.05
PRINCIPAL $83,633.16
ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL $83,031.68
EIP 4TH AND 5TH GRADE TEACHER $82,813.64
LITERACY COACH $82,185.80
GRADE 6 TEACHER $82,185.80
HIGH SCHOOL COUNSELOR $80,915.00
KINDERGARTEN TEACHER $80,411.76
EIP 4TH AND 5TH GRADE TEACHER $80,348.00
VOCATIONAL $79,923.00
ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL $79,365.05
GRADE 2 TEACHER $79,093.84
ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL $78,580.50
ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL $78,256.40
HIGH SCHOOL COUNSELOR $77,503.52
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $76,772.80
ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL $76,124.13
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $75,928.05
YOUNG FARMER TEACHER $75,869.02
LIBRARIAN/MEDIA SPECIALIST $75,272.80
GRADE 8 TEACHER $75,272.80
PRINCIPAL $75,048.37
MIDDLE SCHOOL COUNSELOR $75,038.64
GRADE 1 TEACHER $75,011.26
ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL $74,413.45
VOCATIONAL $74,193.46
ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL $73,955.19
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $72,825.82
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $72,732.29
FOOD SERVICE ADMINISTRATOR $72,530.04
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $72,474.54
LITERACY COACH $72,400.64
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $72,283.96
VOCATIONAL $71,875.61
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $71,230.34
LITERACY COACH $71,225.55
INSTRUCTIONAL SPECIALIST P-8 $71,017.34
INSTRUCTIONAL SPECIALIST P-8 $70,856.60
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $70,513.64
ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL $69,734.00
GRADE 6 TEACHER $69,402.59
GIFTED ELEMENTARY TEACHER P-5 $69,220.08
VOCATIONAL $69,090.84
GRADE 5 TEACHER $68,976.14
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $68,932.66
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $68,897.14
MIDDLE SCHOOL EXPLOR TEACHER $68,813.80
GRADE 8 TEACHER $68,813.60
SCHOOL PSYCHOLOGIST $68,765.54
GRADE 2 TEACHER $68,701.14
GRADE 3 TEACHER $68,581.39
GIFTED ELEMENTARY TEACHER P-5 $68,496.00
MIDDLE SCHOOL COUNSELOR $68,475.30
INSTRUCTIONAL SPECIALIST P-8 $68,388.18
KINDERGARTEN TEACHER $68,351.14
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $68,313.68
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $68,258.64
KINDERGARTEN TEACHER $68,138.64
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $68,054.28
GRADE 5 TEACHER $67,963.64
VOCATIONAL $67,813.84
INSTRUCTIONAL SPECIALIST P-8 $67,813.84
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $67,813.64
GRADE 2 TEACHER $67,813.64
GRADE 1 TEACHER $67,813.64
GRADE 6 TEACHER $67,813.64
GRADE 2 TEACHER $67,813.64
GRADE 4 TEACHER $67,813.64
KINDERGARTEN TEACHER $67,813.64
GRADE 2 TEACHER $67,813.64
INSTRUCTIONAL SPECIALIST P-8 $67,813.64
GRADE 6 TEACHER $67,813.64
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $67,813.48
INSTRUCTIONAL SPECIALIST P-8 $67,750.56
GRADE 5 TEACHER $67,599.30
GRADE 3 TEACHER $67,549.30
GIFTED ELEMENTARY TEACHER P-5 $67,474.30
GRADE 2 TEACHER $67,474.30
GIFTED ELEMENTARY TEACHER P-5 $67,474.30
GRADE 2 TEACHER $67,474.30
KINDERGARTEN TEACHER $67,261.67
MIDDLE SCHOOL EXPLOR TEACHER $66,725.52
SPECIAL EDUCATION INTERRELATED $66,577.96
ELEMENTARY COUNSELOR $66,569.22
LITERACY COACH $66,528.10
LITERACY COACH $66,003.10
LITERACY COACH $66,002.98
SPECIAL EDUCATION INTERRELATED $65,936.18
INSTRUCTIONAL SPECIALIST P-8 $65,838.68
GRADE 4 TEACHER $65,838.50
GRADE 4 TEACHER $65,758.99
KINDERGARTEN TEACHER $65,683.84
GIFTED ELEMENTARY TEACHER P-5 $65,508.84
KINDERGARTEN TEACHER $65,508.84
GRADE 4 TEACHER $65,508.66
LITERACY COACH $65,276.56
HIGH SCHOOL COUNSELOR $65,232.24
EARLY INTERVENTION PRIMARY TEACHER $64,945.17
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $64,704.98
VOCATIONAL $64,379.21
SPECIAL EDUCATION INTERRELATED $64,138.60
SPECIAL EDUCATION INTERRELATED $64,109.19
INSTRUCTIONAL SPECIALIST P-8 $63,920.64
ELEMENTARY COUNSELOR $63,920.44
GRADE 7 TEACHER $63,920.44
GRADE 4 TEACHER $63,920.44
GRADE 8 TEACHER $63,920.44
ESOL TEACHER $63,920.44
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $63,818.80
TEACHER OF SEVERE INTELLECTUAL $63,783.28
GRADE 3 TEACHER $63,750.60
GRADE 6 TEACHER $63,600.60
KINDERGARTEN TEACHER $63,600.60
GRADE 4 TEACHER $63,600.60
KINDERGARTEN TEACHER $63,600.60
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $63,592.96
VOCATIONAL $63,348.12
LITERACY COACH $63,190.00
GRADE 5 TEACHER $63,133.16
LITERACY COACH $63,124.60
GRADE 3 TEACHER $63,118.36
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $62,957.84
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $62,919.60
GRADE 4 TEACHER $62,884.00
GRADE 2 TEACHER $62,437.71
SPECIAL EDUCATION INTERRELATED $62,411.26
GRADE 7 TEACHER $62,401.68
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $62,386.32
INSTRUCTIONAL SPECIALIST P-8 $62,383.22
SPECIAL EDUCATION INTERRELATED $62,373.34
LITERACY COACH $62,182.78
SPECIAL EDUCATION INTERRELATED $62,073.34
GRADE 4 TEACHER $62,059.00
KINDERGARTEN TEACHER $62,059.00
VOCATIONAL $62,059.00
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $62,059.00
VOCATIONAL $61,998.34
GRADE 2 TEACHER $61,748.34
TEACHER OF HEARING IMPAIRED STUDENT $61,748.34
GRADE 4 TEACHER $61,748.34
TEACHER OF ORTHOPEDIC IMPAIRED $61,748.34
LIBRARIAN/MEDIA SPECIALIST $61,638.05
GRADE 5 TEACHER $61,606.62
GRADE 2 TEACHER $61,509.32
GRADE 8 TEACHER $61,461.26
SPECIAL EDUCATION INTERRELATED $61,461.14
EIP 4TH AND 5TH GRADE TEACHER $61,176.64
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $61,076.96
VOCATIONAL $61,038.90
GRADE 2 TEACHER $60,943.46
LIBRARIAN/MEDIA SPECIALIST $60,710.90
GRADES 9-12 TEACHER $60,663.54
GRADE 4 TEACHER $60,504.01
GRADE 7 TEACHER $60,261.26


31 posted on 04/09/2012 7:00:17 PM PDT by barmag25
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To: MichCapCon

Master’s degrees are getting pretty common out there these days.


32 posted on 04/09/2012 7:00:34 PM PDT by AndrewB (FUBO)
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To: MichCapCon

Where I come from, this is called “bullcrap”.


33 posted on 04/09/2012 7:02:05 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (Draft Palin VP!)
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To: MichCapCon

Elementary ed. teachers get over $40,000 per year in my area, and this is the middle of nowhere.


34 posted on 04/09/2012 7:04:36 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Randy Larsen
“Union Says”

Union lies!

It's time to stop giving teachers' unions the respect of listening to them as if they ever were sincere in starting a dialog with us the taxpayers. How many more times are they going to lie to us and push phony "statistics" at us.

I'll cut right to the chase for them: "give us more money and your children will get our version of education". Can't we see that their interest is not our interest? Our interests can't be realized until we first squash teachers unions. Then and only then we can genuinely educate our children.

35 posted on 04/09/2012 7:07:58 PM PDT by Sir_Humphrey (Is it too late to save the country?)
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To: forgotten man
When was the last time that you met a union leader who was not a liar?

I never even had a first time in my 40 + years including 3 years as a local Union Stewart (the worst 3 years of my life).

Not only does the top union leadership lie like a rug, every one of the grievances I had to fight from the members was based on lies.

I was young and stupid, but could also walk and chew gum at the same time and was talked into running for the local stewards position. All I can say is in that three years, every 'grievance' I was forced to file other than one, the company was 100% correct. In a couple of instances, if it were my company I would have fired the SOBs on the spot.

In most instances, it was idiots who thought that just because they were in the union, they could get everything without doing anything. I just doesn't work that way.

It was hell at the time for me, but ended up being a good experience overall. I got to see how it works, but I was damn glad when my time in the barrel was over. :~))

And the 80% rule applies. 80% of the problems came from 20% of the people. It was probably more like 95-5 in my experience.

36 posted on 04/09/2012 7:13:21 PM PDT by Ditto (Nov 2, 2010 -- Partial cleaning accomplished. More trash to remove in 2012)
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To: Terry Mross

“I lived there 1079-1981.”

And yet you don’t look a day over 300!


37 posted on 04/09/2012 7:20:20 PM PDT by Nik Naym (It's not my fault... I have compulsive smartass disorder.)
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To: cymbeline

They might get that if they teach in Charlotte-Mecklenburg or some similar place. The rest of us don’t:

http://www.ncpublicschools.org/docs/fbs/finance/salary/schedules/2011-12schedules.pdf


38 posted on 04/09/2012 7:26:00 PM PDT by GenXteacher (He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
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To: NoLibZone

Nothing like getting an MA for taking courses in bulletin board design, pop psychology, and political correctness.

At $1 they are overpaid. They aren’t even competent babysitters.


39 posted on 04/09/2012 7:26:48 PM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: Terry Mross

902 years is too long to live anywhere in Arkansas.


40 posted on 04/09/2012 7:47:30 PM PDT by X-spurt (Its time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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To: Terry Mross

“I lived there 1079-1981. Loved it.”

That’s a mighty long time....


41 posted on 04/09/2012 8:03:03 PM PDT by GenXteacher (He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
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To: GenXteacher

Like I said, I love it. That’s why I stayed so long.


42 posted on 04/09/2012 9:11:58 PM PDT by Terry Mross ("It happened. And we let it happen." - Peter Griffin, Family Guy)
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To: surely_you_jest
Even with the union numbers, they’re still overpaid.

Surely you jest! There isn't enough money in MI for me to be a teacher...there or anywhere else! It wouldn't take long for me to be on death row for murder!

43 posted on 04/09/2012 9:17:33 PM PDT by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
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To: achilles2000
What are you overpaid for doing?

No, I'm not nor have I ever been a teacher. I just think it's funny that people bad-mouth teachers when a lot are probably no more competent in what they they are paid for doing than are teachers.

44 posted on 04/09/2012 10:11:01 PM PDT by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
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To: GenXteacher

Your table of NC teacher pay.

First here are some data points from your table:
with NBPTS certification:
0-2 years: $34,080
10 years: $42,240
15 years: $45,000
20 years: $47,390
25 years: $51,300

Someone I looked at yesterday has 27 years and makes $62,800. She might have taken some learning programs that boosted her pay but she doesn’t get additional pay for coaching or some other above-and-beyond activity. She’s just a teacher. She’s in the Wake County system.


45 posted on 04/10/2012 4:44:22 AM PDT by cymbeline
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To: cymbeline

Not my table, the state’s. Wake is one of the big systems in the state anyway (local governments are allowed to add to teacher pay, and the big localities usually do so) and most teachers don’t have National Board Certification. My point being is that most teachers in NC don’t make the top end salary you indicated, and the only reason I wished to make that point, was that in your earlier post you cited a teacher of 15 years making that much, and in my experience that would be unlikely unless you lived in certain areas. Just striving for accuracy- no bitching meant.


46 posted on 04/10/2012 6:36:05 AM PDT by GenXteacher (He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
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To: GenXteacher

teacher pay

My statement was distorted. I look at state employee salaries continuously and tend to remember the high teacher pays. We non-teacher employees are envious of the teachers that get raises even though the rest of us haven’t gotten one for several years.


47 posted on 04/10/2012 7:18:48 AM PDT by cymbeline
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To: cymbeline

Well, be less envious- we haven’t moved on the chart in 4 years- in other words, no raises for experience, and none on the horizon. And if you really want to see a NC state employee that makes an unjustified salary, go look at what the ABC store folks make. Some of them make a great deal more than any teacher (or indeed, a great many other people, state employees or not, and with no special training or qualifications otherwise, save to be well-connected..)


48 posted on 04/10/2012 7:37:20 AM PDT by GenXteacher (He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
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To: MichCapCon

I know some Michigan teachers.

Salary in lower 40s (in a cost of living area way above NC or GA) for teachers without tenure and with ten years of experience.

Their pay has gone down three years in row as train wrecks of union / legislature / district budgets are avoided.

It now takes ten years to get tenure if you didn’t have it before last year due legislature and district in-fighting for cost. That means you are working for NO retirement as it is all cliff vesting.

These include people with triple majors, highly educated in the sciences but without advanced degrees.

One I know pays for one dependent child healthcare coverage at about $200 per month which puts a lie to the legend that they get monster coverage for free.

I will grant that there are areas elsewhere where the salaries and benefits are criminal, but I don’t think Michigan in general outside of the big Detroit suburbs and urban core are going to serve as examples of such if you do the research.


49 posted on 04/10/2012 8:13:57 AM PDT by KC Burke (Newton's New First Law, Repeal and Restore!)
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To: lonestar

I work in the private sector. Teachers are unionized (mostly) government workers. The point is that they work for an institution that now produces negative added value.


50 posted on 04/10/2012 11:51:18 AM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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