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“Dear Abby” Gets it Dead Wrong on the Bible and Homosexuality
scottfactor.com Blog ^ | 05/08/12 | Gina Miller

Posted on 05/03/2012 6:53:54 AM PDT by scottfactor

We do not subscribe to our local newspaper, but I occasionally read one of the copies that comes to the radio station where I work. This past Monday, I read the advice columns that used to be written by identical twin sisters, Pauline Phillips and Esther “Eppie” Lederer, known to us by their pen names as Abigail VanBuren—“Dear Abby”—and Ann Landers.

The columns are no longer written by these ladies. Eppie Lederer—Ann Landers—passed away in 2002, and her column, now called “Annie’s Mailbox,” is written by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar who were two former editors of her column. Pauline Phillips’ daughter, Jeanne Phillips, has been writing the “Dear Abby” column exclusively since her mother retired ten years ago, due to health problems. Jeanne Phillips now owns the pen name, Abigail VanBuren.

I have noticed that for many years the writers of both columns are fully on-board the Left’s program of trying to cast homosexuality in a positive light. The writers of both columns have nothing but pro-homosexual things to say to homosexuals and their co-workers, friends and family members who write in for advice. The writers of both columns are in the camp that believes homosexuality is an innate characteristic, like skin color, even though the world of “science,” trying as hard as it can, has found no proof of this.

It was a letter in the “Dear Abby” column on Monday that compelled me to address this issue in today’s Christian Patriot Politicast (of which this column is a transcript). A mother wrote a letter explaining that her son had revealed to her and her husband that he is a homosexual. She said they love their son, as do their other sons and daughters, and then she writes,

“My husband and I are now struggling because we're not sure how God really views gays and lesbians. To listen to some religious people, my son will go to hell. I can't believe that God would create a person to be this way, then turn His back on him.

I tried reading the Bible, but the wording was hard to understand. I don't want to talk to my pastor about it because, even though I have accepted my son for who he is, I still have trouble talking to people about it because I'm not sure how they'll react. Do you believe a gay person will go to heaven? -- SOMEWHERE IN THE U.S.A.”

How sad it is that this woman has a pastor who should be able to help her, yet apparently she still has little understanding of the Bible. This would be a great opportunity to explain God’s clear position on homosexuality and His powerful redemption of us sinners through His Son, Jesus, but that does not happen in the “Dear Abby” column. Instead, here is what Jeanne Phillips wrote in reply,

“DEAR SOMEWHERE: I believe that entrance to heaven is based upon a person's character, not his or her sexual orientation. Today, because of modern scientific studies, we know more about homosexuality than was known when the Bible was written, and that sexual orientation is not a ‘choice.’”

Not a word of what she said is true.

Entrance to heaven—or salvation—is not based on our character. It is based on God’s grace alone. As Paul, through inspiration of God’s Holy Spirit, wrote in his letter to the Ephesians,

“But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

There is no amount of “good works” that we can do to ever “earn” our way into heaven. Neither can our “character” ever be good enough to gain us entry into God’s Kingdom. The world’s major, false religions—which include some so-called “Christian” ones—emphasize works to earn one’s place in heaven, which only serves to nullify Jesus’ redemptive work on the cross. True Christianity is based, not on our pitiful “good works,” but on God’s grace alone. As Paul wrote, we receive salvation by faith in God the Father through Jesus the Son, and even the very faith we have is given to us by God. Every bit of it is God’s doing.

Then, Ms. Phillips says that due to modern science, we know more about homosexuality than was known when the Bible was written. If this were not such a serious subject, I would laugh out loud at the lunacy of that statement. It matters not a whit what Ms. Phillips believes about the Bible, because her belief—or unbelief, rather—will not change the truth of it.

The Bible was written by men who were guided by the Spirit of God—God wrote the Bible. And God, Who made us, knows all there is to know. He most certainly knows everything about homosexuality—more than a billion scientists could ever fathom, and He is quite clear on what He thinks of it.

In Leviticus, God details a number of different sexual sins and the penalties for them under the Old Covenant. Of all the various sexual sins, homosexuality is the one sexual sin that God describes as an abomination. In the first chapter of the book of Romans, the sin of homosexuality is listed together with “all ungodliness and wickedness of men” who hold the truth in contempt.

God’s plain thoughts on homosexuality are in direct conflict with the message of the radical homosexual Left. Desperate to justify their wicked behavior, they claim they were “born that way.” God says otherwise. These conflicting messages cause confusion in the minds of people who do not have a working knowledge of the Bible. The mother who wrote the letter to “Dear Abby” expressed that confusion when she said,

“I can't believe that God would create a person to be this way, then turn His back on him.”

That is because God does not create anyone to be homosexual. What an awful thing it would be for the Lord to command that we not behave in a homosexual manner and then create homosexual people! There is no contradiction in God, and He never changes. Ms. Phillips is dead wrong in her claim that homosexuals do not have a choice in the matter.

As for the mother’s question about whether homosexuals can get into heaven, the answer to that is the same as for any other people. Those who accept God’s free gift of salvation through Jesus’ willing sacrifice on the cross will be saved. Those who reject it will not. Those who accept Christ and receive His Spirit will be able to resist sin’s tyrannical hold. Through Christ living in us, we are able to be free from sin, and that includes the sin of homosexuality. This does not mean it is easy. Getting free from any sinful addiction—and homosexuality is a powerful addiction—is a hard process, but through the Lord it can be done. The Lord loves homosexuals just as He loves all sinners, and He wants them to be free from their sins through Him.

Just because we get saved does not mean we are “perfect.” Perfection will never happen in this world, and we will always struggle and stumble, but we continue to strive toward the goal of the Kingdom of Heaven set before us, confessing our sins to each other and to God, Who forgives us. We will ever be fighting our flesh, which is sinful by nature, but we are no longer slaves to sin, because God gives us the strength to avoid sin as He helps us grow in Him by His Spirit living in us.

Meanwhile, I hope that mother who wrote the letter to “Dear Abby” gets a second opinion, one that actually contains the truth.


TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: gay; homosexual; homosexualagenda; media
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 05/03/2012 6:53:56 AM PDT by scottfactor
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To: scottfactor
"For all* have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".

*Except homosexuals.

2 posted on 05/03/2012 6:58:26 AM PDT by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: scottfactor

Dear Abby is dead. Dan Savage is now ghostwriting her column.


3 posted on 05/03/2012 7:00:46 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: scottfactor

“As for the mother’s question about whether homosexuals can get into heaven, the answer to that is the same as for any other people. “

Let’s make it a bit more clear.

No. There will be no homosexuals in heaven.

Only ex-homosexuals.


4 posted on 05/03/2012 7:02:37 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: scottfactor
That column is nothing more than the Doprah Winfrey/Dr. Phil-type thinking.

The fact that male homosexuality reduces their average life-span to 39-41 years is totally ignored, whereas a obese people and smokers (who get harassed constantly) will live to their 70s.

These people are pathetic. I stopped reading this column years ago when they offered a "heart-wrenching" excuse to encourage abortions.

5 posted on 05/03/2012 7:06:47 AM PDT by laweeks
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To: scottfactor

For all this gay stuff we’ve heard in recent years, there is one fact which gets in the way. And that fact is, that we just don’t know what causes homosexuality.

Up until 1973, homosexuality was officially considered a mental condition by the psychiatric community. Then, it was normalized by the psychiatric profession.

But that normalization by mental health professionals does not mean that we know what causes it.

Today’s culture celebrates homosexuality. But we still don’t know for sure what causes it.

We do know that there is a cabal of homosexual activists, who have sought to portray homosexuality as “cool” and “normal” and “harmless” in recent years. They work in the media, working to ensure that movies and TV shows portray homosexuality in a positive way. I’m sure the same is true with columns such as “Dear Abby”.


6 posted on 05/03/2012 7:10:26 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: scottfactor

Actually, a portion of what she said is true, at least within a specific context. Homosexuality, at least in males, is very rarely a “choice,” any more than any other dysfunctional compulsion. The scientific evidence is pretty consistent on it being a product of the emotional environment. It eventually becomes a choice when the person recognizes the compulsion within themselves and makes a decision whether to embrace it or combat it.


7 posted on 05/03/2012 7:14:14 AM PDT by william clark (Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: scottfactor

I stopped paying any attention to them, especially Ann, after 2000. She published a letter from some distraught couple who could no longer stand to be lifelong friends with some others because the other couple voted for Bush.

Ann gave them some conciliatory rubbish and sympathized with them.

What a POS.


8 posted on 05/03/2012 7:14:49 AM PDT by treetopsandroofs (Had FDR been GOP, there would have been no World Wars, just "The Great War" and "Roosevelt's Wars".)
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To: scottfactor
“My husband and I are now struggling because we're not sure how God really views gays and lesbians. To listen to some religious people, my son will go to hell.

Obviously, this woman doesn't read the Bible, or go to church, or have a minister who teaches from the Bible. God isn't turning His back on their son; her son turned his back on God.

I also suspect that this religiously-stupid jackass is what Rush would call a "seminar" caller ("writer" in this case), if you know what I mean. Probably the authors of this daily trash have to run with pro-abortion and pro-homosexuality propaganda on a schedule.

9 posted on 05/03/2012 7:18:31 AM PDT by laweeks
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To: scottfactor
I view the “homosexuals were born that way” argument as akin to the argument that “Native Americans are predisposed to alcoholism.”

Both statements contain a kernel of truth, but both can be taken to distorted and illogical conclusions.

Native Americans do not have the thousands of years of experience in brewing and drinking alcohol that our counterparts of other races do. As such, most of us will readily admit that we cannot consume alcohol in the same quantities as our white brothers without severe consequences which you see on reservations where alcohol is a primary driver of poverty, spousal abuse and broken families.

Those of us who stay sober manage to do so with a variety of techniques. Some of us choose to give up alcohol completely, a path I eventually chose, as have many others. Still others choose to limit themselves to three beers or one small glass of hard liquor over a certain time period or only for certain occasions. Some of the more responsible reservation leaders make it difficult, inconvenient or even downright illegal to sell alcohol on reservations.

But none that I know of, save the most corrupt tribal leaders and hardcore Democrats (but I repeat myself) proclaim "accept us as a bunch of drunkards and winos and just keep giving us money to reinforce the habit."

Contrast this situation to the gay mafia. Whether through nature or nurture, I will not argue, but I will admit that some people are predisposed to homosexuality.

Like alcohol, if consumed in moderation, it can be relatively harmless or even relaxing to those so inclined. Some people can limit themselves to staring, touching or pornography. Many cannot and would be wise to chose the path of total abstinence or celibacy before it grows into a full-blown destructive addiction which, like alcoholism, will eventually kill.

The sewer pipe from Hollywood and the gay culture, however, takes the position that nobody but idiots would take with Native Americans and alcohol. They demand that society accept the most extreme forms of homosexuality, avoid even counseling much less legislating limits and that taxpayers pick up the tab for enabling it in its most destructive forms.

10 posted on 05/03/2012 7:18:52 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: scottfactor
That is because God does not create anyone to be homosexual

Doesn't matter if he did. He created the rest of us heterosexual, and still has moral standards he expects us to follow. Even so much as lusting after a woman is considered a sin, so how many of us have room to judge.

I think the real problem, from society's viewpoint anyway, is when we try to justify such behavior. Doing it is one thing; demanding everyone else respect you for it is another.

11 posted on 05/03/2012 7:22:02 AM PDT by chesley (Eat what you want, and die like a man. Never trust anyone who hasn't been punched in the face)
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To: Dilbert San Diego
Up until 1973, homosexuality was officially considered a mental condition character and behavior disorder by the psychiatric community. Then, it was normalized by the psychiatric profession.

Horse-hockey! The psychiatric community was HARASSED into taking this disgusting behavior off their perversion list. And the idiots caved. It is a choice, every bit as much as drugs, booze, voting for Obambi, bestiality, etc. Just plain and simple . . . a choice . . . a very bad choice, but a choice.

12 posted on 05/03/2012 7:23:11 AM PDT by laweeks
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To: scottfactor

There is a distinction between “inclination” and action. One man may desire sex with other men. Another man may desire sex with per-adolescent girls. Neither sins as long as they do not ACT on their inclinations.


13 posted on 05/03/2012 7:23:40 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)
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To: Vigilanteman

Speaking of FAKEs, I always thought it was hilarious that that the muslim word for magical religious wonder-maker is FAKIR.

And we call Hussein’s incoherent babbling “nuances”.


14 posted on 05/03/2012 7:24:03 AM PDT by treetopsandroofs (Had FDR been GOP, there would have been no World Wars, just "The Great War" and "Roosevelt's Wars".)
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To: scottfactor
It seems to me that people are born, or shaped very very early in life, to have certain tendencies that are sinful if indulged.

One person may be given to fits of anger, another may become an alcoholic with the first drink. Others will find it far harder not to stray in marriage than most. Some may be given to depression (despair.)

That is because God does not create anyone to be homosexual. What an awful thing it would be for the Lord to command that we not behave in a homosexual manner and then create homosexual people! There is no contradiction in God, and He never changes. Ms. Phillips is dead wrong in her claim that homosexuals do not have a choice in the matter.

Romans chapter 9 would seem to be in contradiction to this:

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

15 posted on 05/03/2012 7:25:52 AM PDT by heartwood
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To: scottfactor

“Meanwhile, I hope that mother who wrote the letter to “Dear Abby” gets a second opinion, one that actually contains the truth.”

I doubt it, since the warm and fuzzy answer she got was probably what she wanted to hear. Also, I’m assuming Jeanne Phillips, like her mother and aunt, is Jewish - so don’t hold your breath waiting for any Christian messages there.

These columns, whenever God comes up, take the feel-good, Joel Osteen type of “faith” minus any references to Jesus.


16 posted on 05/03/2012 7:29:58 AM PDT by llandres (Forget the "New America" - restore the original one!!!)
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To: PapaBear3625

“Neither sins as long as they do not ACT on their inclinations.”

Actually, Jesus would not agree with that. Matthew 5:28 sets it on the HEART and not the ACT.


17 posted on 05/03/2012 7:33:42 AM PDT by sigzero
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To: scottfactor
The world’s major, false religions—which include some so-called “Christian” ones...

Sad that the author chose to take a cheap shot at other Christians here to soil an otherwise worthwhile article.

18 posted on 05/03/2012 7:34:31 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: Vigilanteman

Outstanding post. Thank you.


19 posted on 05/03/2012 7:35:15 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (A conservative can't please a liberal unless he jumps in front of a bus or off of a cliff)
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To: All

Dear Abby, Dear Abby...
You won’t believe this
But my stomach makes noises whenever I kiss
My girlfriend she tells me It’s all in my head
But my stomach it tells me to write you instead
Signed Noise-maker


20 posted on 05/03/2012 7:35:21 AM PDT by freedomlover (Make sure you're in love - before you move in the heavy stuff)
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To: scottfactor
Today, because of modern scientific studies, we know more about homosexuality than was known when the Bible was written, and that sexual orientation is not a ‘choice.’”

Many ex homosexuals will disagree.
21 posted on 05/03/2012 7:36:25 AM PDT by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: scottfactor

Dear Abby is politically correct to a fault; not worth reading.

The woman who wrote in says she has a pastor, but seems never to have cracked open a Bible before, to the point it’s a foreign object to her. Something is very wrong there.


22 posted on 05/03/2012 7:41:04 AM PDT by CatherineofAragon (Time for a write-in campaign...Darryl Dixon for President)
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To: Vigilanteman
Like alcohol, if consumed in moderation, it can be relatively harmless or even relaxing to those so inclined. Some people can limit themselves to staring, touching or pornography.

I agreed with you up to that point. Practicing homosexuality "in moderation" is like playing with a loaded gun or driving as close to the edge of the cliff as you can without falling over. If you're predisposed to alcoholism, stay away from booze. If you're predisposed to homosexuality, stay away from it completely and seek help.

23 posted on 05/03/2012 7:57:40 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

We do know. The Bible states that when we abandon the Truth, we open ourselves to all kinds of deviation, and especially homosexuality. As a medical professional, this is not a medical condition. And, statistics still show that the vast majority of homosexual men (and women, for that matter) were abused sexually as a child by another male, usually one in their own family or a close friend. Now, with it being taught as normal in the classroom, it is no wonder that kids are confused about sexuality and believe that it is possible. This is a manufactured disorder, made possible by the Fall, when men rejected the Truth, God. And, for those homosexuals who claim to be of faith, if your faith is not leading you to repent of this, then you may not have a saving faith. If your conscience doesn’t bother you about it, I am sure you do not. The HS would not allow us to go on in sin and not convict you it was wrong.


24 posted on 05/03/2012 8:00:10 AM PDT by Shery (in APO Land)
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To: sigzero; PapaBear3625
Actually, Jesus would not agree with that. Matthew 5:28 sets it on the HEART and not the ACT.

Precisely, thank you. That statement by Jesus shows just how far below His standards we really are. It also shows just how impossible it is to get into Heaven on our own.

25 posted on 05/03/2012 8:02:46 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: sigzero

You posted, in part: Actually, Jesus would not agree with that. Matthew 5:28 sets it on the HEART and not the ACT.
***

I agree with you, with the caveat that being inclined to commit a certain sin (and resisting) is different than lusting or actively hating. That is, it isn’t that the sin popped into your head, but activley wanting to commit the sin, or surrendering to it even without actually physically committing it that violates Christ’s teachings.


26 posted on 05/03/2012 8:11:31 AM PDT by NCLaw441
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To: Mr Rogers

Outstanding post. Thank you.

_______________________________________________________________

I’m sorry, but I found very little “outstanding” words written in this article. I sometimes wish I had gone to siminary in any church so that I could speak with some authority but, alas, I have not. My words are only my words, my beliefs and what I have learned after many years with the scriptures in front of me. If you believe different than me fine. If you and God are good with each other then who am I to judge. But these words represent many years of time on this earth and just may contain some wisdom.

Did God create Homosexuals? Of course He did. Did God create wife abusers? Of Course He did. Did God create bank robbers, gang bangers, rapists or any other vile despicable sinner? Of course He did. We all have the desire for sin built into us. When we find Christ, for His sake we deny ourselves that sin which so horribly wants to come out of us. Can we be vile sinners and know The Lord? Yes of course we can. Knowing the Lord though and following Him and being His are possibly two different things.

We are ALL sinners. None of us are perfect and none of us become perfect in this life. We will all continue to sin. The Bible teaches that no imperfect thing can abide with God. In Christ we can be made perfect. The opportunity to live with God is indeed a gift but it is not given against our will. Not only must we want it we must qualify for it. Does that mean we earn it? No, of course not, nobody can earn the wonderful gift The Lord has given us except he pay what The Lord paid for it and we, not being God, don’t qualify for being able to pay the price.

Jesus paid the price and gives us the gift if we want it and are willing to pay the price He sets. There is a price, it is not a free gift. The gift only applies if we bring our own sacrifices to The Lord. What is the sacrifice? It is simply to give up our sins, to give up the natural man and try our best to become like The Lord. We are told to be like Christ, to in fact be one with Him just like He is one with His Father, even God.

Can a homosexual give up his sin and qualify for the grace that The Lord gives? Yes he and the rest of us can also qualify if we are willing to bring our own gift of sacrifice to The Lord. Does that mean the homosexual stops being a homosexual? No. It does mean though that he does his best to stop the practice. If after bringing his sacrifice he slips and sins again does that mean he no longer qualifies for the gift? Maybe. But because we are all sinners and The Lord knows us he gave us the possibility of repenting of our sins. It is possible to repent even after we have repented for the same sin in the past. The anguish may be much worse the second, third, forth etc, time but the gift is still available. It is a simple thing to do but simple does not mean easy.

The gate is narrow and few there be that find it because sometimes people enjoy their sin more than they enjoy The Lord.


27 posted on 05/03/2012 8:36:06 AM PDT by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: Future Snake Eater
If you're predisposed to alcoholism, stay away from booze. If you're predisposed to homosexuality, stay away from it completely and seek help.

I happen to agree with you 100%. But there are a lot of Freepers out there who think driving as close as you can to the edge of a cliff without going over it is perfectly OK.

We had a thread here sometime back on Dr. James Dobson's interview with Ted Bundy the day before his execution. I got railed on big time for actually stating my opinion that Bundy had a point on the vile mixture of sadistic violence and hard core porn.

You would've thought I was out to get their Playboy centerfolds with soft porn, shadows and pubic hair.

That's why I tried to make a distinction here. But, in hindsight, those who choose to be offended would be offended anyway.

28 posted on 05/03/2012 8:42:50 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: All; scottfactor
Of all the various sexual sins, homosexuality is the one sexual sin that God describes as an abomination.

Who's lying now, Gina Miller ?

Check out Leviticus 18:26-30 and you'll see the whole list is classed abomination unless, mystifyingly, "all these" and "any of these" and "any one of these" somehow reference only one item.

(I used the KJV for reference.)

In her zeal to offer a scope of severity, I notice she does not address equal punishment--put to death, even by fire--for the other sexual sins listed (adultery, incest, bestiality, etc.). Such punishments are listed in Leviticus Ch 20 which parallels the listing in Ch 18.

Miller's cherry-picking, a common mote in the eye of some of the loudest on this subject, is every bit as deceptive as the "advice" columnist. At least the columnist doesn't claim to speak authoritatively for God.

29 posted on 05/03/2012 8:54:29 AM PDT by newzjunkey (I advocate separation of school and sport)
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To: JAKraig
I have no problem with the Grace of Christ, the claim that the Gift of Jesus Christ on the cross paid for all sin, nor even the statement that no amount of good works will get us into heaven because we are all imperfect and sin at some time.

My problem is with the extreme Gracers who think and even declare that as long as you utter the right words of belief, you are guaranteed a reserved seat in heaven even if you go on to murder, pillage, lie and commit any combination of reprehensible acts.

IOW, God expects you to do what you reasonably can do even if your good works are only 0.0001% of the equation. James 2:14-20 is every much as part of the Bible as John 3:16.

Accordingly, people who blame God for the sins of a sinner are copping out, just as much as the so-called Christians who used their faith as an excuse to kill Native Americans, justify slavery or expel or marginalize believers who didn't buy into their particular brand of Christianity. Rev. Wright and the Taliban Gracers are prime examples of the later.

30 posted on 05/03/2012 8:59:57 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: freedomlover

Noise maker, noise maker
You have no complaint
You are what you are
And you ain’t what you ain’t
So listen up, buster
And listen up good
Stop wishin’ for back luck
And knockin’ on wood

Signed,
Dear Abby


31 posted on 05/03/2012 9:48:25 AM PDT by Road Glide
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To: treetopsandroofs

And they both were big supporters of Planned Parenthood.


32 posted on 05/03/2012 9:54:16 AM PDT by murron (Proud Mom of a Marine Vet)
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To: sigzero

I went to Catholic school all my life. I remember one particular nun when I was in grade school giving us an example. Say I want to steal Jane’s purse which she has left unattended upstairs in an empty classroom. I go upstairs to do the deed, but there is a teacher in the classroom and I do not get to steal the purse. Have I committed a sin, even though I didn’t actually steal the purse? According to my teacher, she says yes I did. The only thing that stopped me was the opportunity, not the desire not to commit the crime.


33 posted on 05/03/2012 9:59:31 AM PDT by murron (Proud Mom of a Marine Vet)
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To: Vigilanteman

“I view the “homosexuals were born that way” argument as akin to the argument that “Native Americans are predisposed to alcoholism.”
Both statements contain a kernel of truth, but both can be taken to distorted and illogical conclusions.”

Anecdotal evidence follows, which can be taken any way you wish.

This morning, as usual, I stopped in the local Dunkin’ Donuts for coffee.

In line ahead was an obviously gay male. His orientation was far MORE than just “obvious” — mannerisms, voice, hair, he even had bare feet with painted toenails in flip-flops. This guy was on fire - a real FLAMER, as they say. There is no way anyone of any sexual persuasion could overlook or mistake that.

And as obvious was his orientation, it was also clear that this guy could never have previously been a “normal, heterosexual” man who at some point freely decided he was going to stop being hetero to become who he is now.

He is what he is, from his beginning. For him to have “changed” into who he is makes as much sense as a male making a conscious decision to stop being a male and become a female. Which is to say, to believe that makes no rational sense at all.

Like John Prine’s refrain in “Dear Abby” (thanks to freedomlover who posted the “noisemaker” verse in post #20), “you are what you are, and you ain’t what you ain’t”.


34 posted on 05/03/2012 10:04:59 AM PDT by Road Glide
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To: newzjunkey

Hello, Newzjunkey.

I was not “lying” about Leviticus. When you look at each “itemized” sexual sin, various descriptions are used. In the KJV, only the sexual sin of homosexuality is described as an abomination in that list. You are correct about the blanket abomination statements at the end of the chapter, but that does not diminish my point—which is not a lie—that the listing of each sin describes each in various ways and only uses the word ‘abomination’ for homosexuality.

I am not “cherry-picking’ anything. As for the punishments—ALL sins are punishable by death—eternal separation from God, if we do not accept the free grace of salvation through Christ. The ultimate death penalty for sin has always been the case and continues to be the case, apart from salvation.


35 posted on 05/03/2012 10:07:01 AM PDT by WXRGina (Further up and further in!)
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To: Road Glide
Maybe so.

But then again, maybe he/she/it just craves the attention.

If I see a guy in a Brooks Brothers suit, I do not automatically assume he is a Dandy or has a job requiring such dress. Maybe he just likes dressing up.

By the same token, I prefer wearing a factory type work uniform whenever possible. Not because I'm a beer-swilling blue collar type. I'm actually a professional with an advanced degree. I just find such clothing most comfortable to work in.

If you could only know what other people thought about you, you'd be genuinely shocked about just how little.

36 posted on 05/03/2012 10:49:36 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: murron

Did you mean to answer me? Because that was my point.


37 posted on 05/03/2012 11:39:14 AM PDT by sigzero
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To: JAKraig; Vigilanteman

I was replying to post #10 by Vigilanteman. I thought he had an excellent response. In particular, I like these sentences:

“But none that I know of, save the most corrupt tribal leaders and hardcore Democrats (but I repeat myself) proclaim “accept us as a bunch of drunkards and winos and just keep giving us money to reinforce the habit.”...

...The sewer pipe from Hollywood and the gay culture, however, takes the position that nobody but idiots would take with Native Americans and alcohol. They demand that society accept the most extreme forms of homosexuality, avoid even counseling much less legislating limits and that taxpayers pick up the tab for enabling it in its most destructive forms.”

Everyone has some sins that are extra tempting. Some gamble. I have zero temptation there, but I’m weaker in others. That cannot become an excuse for sin, however. A big guy is probably tempted to bully more than a runt, but that doesn’t excuse bullying.


38 posted on 05/03/2012 12:41:41 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (A conservative can't please a liberal unless he jumps in front of a bus or off of a cliff)
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To: Vigilanteman; Road Glide

I was born with a hot temper, but that doesn’t mean it is OK for me to explode at other people.


39 posted on 05/03/2012 12:44:16 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (A conservative can't please a liberal unless he jumps in front of a bus or off of a cliff)
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To: laweeks

It’s sad that many who claim to be Christian are so ignorant of what the Bible actually says.


40 posted on 05/03/2012 1:15:20 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: Road Glide

Um,you realize that not all gays are that easy to notice and many don’t act female. Ever heard of Rob Halford of Judas Priest? He’s gay and he is the most masculine person there is.


41 posted on 05/03/2012 2:27:57 PM PDT by Rockerwolf
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To: Buckeye McFrog; 185JHP; 230FMJ; AFA-Michigan; AKA Elena; APatientMan; Abathar; Absolutely Nobama; ..
Homosexual Agenda and Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the homosexual agenda or moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic homosexual agenda keyword search
[ Add keyword homosexual agenda to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

What Buckeye McFrog said. Savage but controlling his mouth a bit more.

42 posted on 05/03/2012 3:10:24 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: sigzero

Yes, I was just agreeing with your point through an anecdote.


43 posted on 05/03/2012 3:18:53 PM PDT by murron (Proud Mom of a Marine Vet)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

Actually a great deal is known about the causes of homosexuality, but of course those pushing the homo agenda and the MSM (but I repeat myself) refuse to acknowledge the facts. If you click the link and read, there is much information and links with more.

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2879554/posts

Not born this way: The facts, plus help available
Save California ^ | Various authors

Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 7:48:09 AM by scripter

Without any reputable evidence, the entertainment culture, uneducated media, and sexual activists have seduced today’s teenagers, in particular, to believe that people are born homosexual.

However, science has found no biological basis for homosexuality, bisexuality, or transsexuality.

Study after study has found the “LGBT” lifestyle to be unhealthy, with the highest rate of sexually-transmitted diseases, and higher cancer rates and earlier deaths.

While all people are worthy and valuable, the fact is people are not “born this way,” as a popular song insists.

On this page you will find:

1. The facts on homosexuality
2. Resources to overcome homosexual behavior and gender identity disorder
3. An important video message titled “Does God Love Gay People?”
4. Some personal stories from people who used to live a homosexual lifestyle


44 posted on 05/03/2012 3:21:23 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: scottfactor

Jeanne Phillips is, in fact, a Lesbian. No kidding. This came out about five years ago. You’d think she’d avoid the topic, but hey.

I read it too. The column is just creepy now.


45 posted on 05/03/2012 3:23:22 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs (Does beheading qualify as 'breaking my back', in the Jeffersonian sense of the expression?)
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To: Road Glide

ACtually, no one is born homosexual. I just posted a link to a very informative thread on FR, please read it if you’d like to be better informed.

Your example doesn’t fly. There are wackos covered with tattoos, implanted horns and the like and they weren’t born wackos who wanted to mutliate their bodies.

Homosexuals are made, not born.


46 posted on 05/03/2012 3:29:11 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: little jeremiah
Just FYI:

The URL provided in post 44 is incorrect and points to the following article: Russia threatens to strike NATO missile defense sites.

Here's the correct link to the post you mentioned: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2730140/posts

47 posted on 05/03/2012 3:39:26 PM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: scripter

OOOPSSS!!

Thank you, good think you’re checking up on me...

Will ping the two I replied to.

(Red faced...)


48 posted on 05/03/2012 5:37:27 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: Road Glide; Dilbert San Diego

Oops - here’s the correct link, sorry:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2730140/posts

Not born this way: The facts, plus help available
Save California ^ | Various authors


49 posted on 05/03/2012 5:40:16 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: newzjunkey
Miller's cherry-picking, a common mote in the eye of some of the loudest on this subject, is every bit as deceptive as the "advice" columnist. At least the columnist doesn't claim to speak authoritatively for God.

Your post is as well deceptive as it "cherry-picks" Old Testament Leviticus penalties while not mentioning the sin remaining sin regardless the Leviticus physical penalties being abolished yet spiritually fulfilled in the New Testament.

...an exclusive focus on Leviticus as a premise for normalizing homosexual sex is a common mote in the eye of the loudest homosexual agenda promoters who often only pretend to speak truth while in essence promoting evil...

50 posted on 05/03/2012 6:09:31 PM PDT by DBeers (†)
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