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Worst Case Scenario: The Trayvon Martin Case
Guns and Ammo Handguns ^ | May 4, 2012 | James Tarr

Posted on 05/05/2012 1:14:35 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

At the request of my online editor, I am very hesitantly going to discuss the Trayvon Martin case, only because it has huge teachable potential to anyone thinking about carrying a gun for self defense.

The Trayvon Martin case is just about the ultimate Worst Case Scenario, a “Perfect Storm” if you will when it comes to a concealed carry confrontation (one where the shooter survives). I am not talking about the actual physical confrontation, but rather the aftermath.

I don’t know what happened that night in Florida, and neither does anyone else. The only person who knows exactly what happened is George Zimmerman, and even he might be fuzzy on a few things from the photos I’ve seen of his bloody head. That fact, however, has apparently been lost on everyone who is screaming about race or gun control or Castle Doctrine. It’s not that I don’t have strong opinions on what I think is going on with this case, it’s that I recognize that’s what they are—opinions. Let’s look at some facts.

If you carry a gun for self-defense, and get involved in a shooting, odds are you will be sued, either by the person you’ve shot, or their surviving family members. You should also assume that, no matter how clear cut a case of self-defense it was, that you will be put in handcuffs at the scene, arrested, and treated by the authorities like a criminal.

I am not mentioning these items to dissuade anyone from carrying a gun for self-defense—it’s far better to be on trial for shooting someone than to be dead—but rather to make sure nobody has any false illusions about how the justice system in our country can and often does work.

Once done defending yourself in court (post bail costs and attorney fees), if you find yourself a free man or woman, there is a good chance you will be sued in civil court. Even if you win, you will have more attorney fees. No matter what the verdict in George Zimmerman’s criminal trial, I would not be surprised if he gets sued by family members of Trayvon Martin. I predicted to friends that Zimmerman would be charged with civil rights violations by Eric Holder’s Justice Department if he wasn’t charged by local authorities, and that still may happen. Again, Zimmerman is living through the Worst Case Scenario of a shooting aftermath, and while it is unlikely that most people who get involved in a self-defense shooting will suffer the same kind of attention, everyone who carries a gun needs to know that it is possible.

It may turn out that a number of people who have leaked information about this case to the press have straight-out lied. People lie in court all the time. You cannot control what other people do, only what you do. Get some documented training, call 9-1-1 either during or as soon as practical after a confrontation, and when the authorities show up, just remember that anything you say can and most likely will be used against you in a court of law.

Protect yourself, protect your loved ones, and if you ever find yourself facing a media lynching or being accused in the press of all sorts of things that just aren’t true, maybe your only recourse will be knowing you did the right thing when the time came.


TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: banglist; georgezimmerman; trayvonmartin; zimmerman

1 posted on 05/05/2012 1:14:46 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“If you carry a gun for self-defense, and get involved in a shooting, odds are you will be sued, either by the person you’ve shot, or their surviving family members. You should also assume that, no matter how clear cut a case of self-defense it was, that you will be put in handcuffs at the scene, arrested, and treated by the authorities like a criminal.”

Not in Texas.


2 posted on 05/05/2012 1:19:07 AM PDT by BigCinBigD
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
>"it’s far better to be on trial for shooting someone than to be dead"

Judged by 12 or carried by 6.

Thank you skiddles!

3 posted on 05/05/2012 1:27:10 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: BigCinBigD

Amen to that. Some parts of the country you just don’t want to live in, any act of defense will get you jail time.


4 posted on 05/05/2012 1:45:53 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Liberals need not reply.)
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To: Eye of Unk

The writer is probably from the North East, and has little knowledge of Free America.


5 posted on 05/05/2012 1:54:25 AM PDT by BigCinBigD
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Dows anyone really think that he shot the kid because he just wanted to??

And so he called 9-11 to make sure they would know who did it??

And we ABSOLUTELY KNOW there was a battle.

And where did the guys who did the voice printing and saying it was Tray screaming...despite the fact that they had no comparable print of either party. Those guys should go to jail.

6 posted on 05/05/2012 2:33:12 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Why didn’t Trayvon call 911?


7 posted on 05/05/2012 3:12:41 AM PDT by Rearden (Deo Vindice)
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To: Rearden
"Why didn’t Trayvon call 911?"

Good question!!!

8 posted on 05/05/2012 3:28:32 AM PDT by OldEagle
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“no matter how clear cut a case of self-defense it was, that you will be put in handcuffs at the scene, arrested, and treated by the authorities like a criminal.”

I would not call Zimmerman’s case a “clear cut case of self-defense.” It’s only “clear cut” is you take his word on everything, which the criminal justice system will not do in the case where there is someone who’s dead.


9 posted on 05/05/2012 4:09:44 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Sounds like the writer of this article is a whiner. Antbody with the vestige of a brain knows that there will be serious ramifications if they have to shoot somebody. People who have served in the combat arms know this fact of life intimately.

Freedom always has a price. If you love your life and your family's lives and you are committed to defending them, don't hesitate just because the police are going to put you in handcuffs or your adversary's family might sue you.

Do your duty and don't whine.

10 posted on 05/05/2012 4:22:45 AM PDT by Chainmail
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Once done defending yourself in court (post bail costs and attorney fees), if you find yourself a free man or woman, there is a good chance you will be sued in civil court.

It is my understanding that some states provide immunity from civil lawsuits in cases involving justified self defense shootings.

11 posted on 05/05/2012 4:43:41 AM PDT by varon (The Patriots stand watch!)
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To: OldEagle

Super good question


12 posted on 05/05/2012 4:50:23 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Brilliant

It’s pretty hard not to take his word...he’s on the phone with 9-11, got smashed up from the fight. This is hardly someone looking to shoot someone.


13 posted on 05/05/2012 4:56:23 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Sacajaweau
"anyone really think"

That was how the media and the race-hustlers originally protrayed the case. From reading comments about the shooting in many different papers and on-line forums, I'd say a great percentage of Black people and libs still believe that narrative: Zimmerman saw an innocent black kid walking through his neighborhood and simply ran up to him and shot him down in cold blood. These people don't want to believe any other narrative. Even when confronted with facts. The "black kid gets shot down in cold blood by an evil white guy" narrative fits their image of how they see the Black experience. They don't want to be bothered with truth and reality.

14 posted on 05/05/2012 5:16:33 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: BigCinBigD
Not in Texas.

Nor in Michigan.

15 posted on 05/05/2012 5:19:18 AM PDT by Yo-Yo
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
.....and say, "officer, I fully intend to help with your investigation and would like to talk with you, but I am really shook up at being attacked and thought I would die tonight. In fact I'm having trouble breathing. Please call an ambulance for me". ....

.and speed dial your atty to meet you there! What?! You carry a gun and DON'T have a knowledgable criminal defense atty on your speed dial?! Get with it! Take an atty to lunch and put on retainer....... Might be the best money ever spent. If you can't afford one, I foresee a lot of people illegally ( but justifiably) carrying "drop guns" in the post railroading Zimmerman fiasco.

16 posted on 05/05/2012 5:28:03 AM PDT by DCBryan1 (Tagline removed at the request of someone who doesn't "get" Monty Python or Shakespeare.)
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To: BigCinBigD

Not in PA either. Got Castle Doctrine last year.


17 posted on 05/05/2012 5:40:41 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Read SCOTUS Castle Rock vs Gonzales before dialing 911!)
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To: BigCinBigD

Or Maryland.


18 posted on 05/05/2012 6:00:59 AM PDT by Salamander (Hey blood brother, you're one of our own. You're as sharp as a razor and as hard as a stone.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I see comments above about not in my state. Don’t think that it can’t happen. Anyone who is involved in a shooting should be prepared for anything. The first rule should be to not try to defend yourself to the responding officers. It is not their job to determine your guilt or innocence.

Just show them the victim and the gun and GET A LAWYER before saying anything. There is a druggist sitting in prison here in Oklahoma that although I believe that is guilty after seeing the evidence, made his case much harder to defend by talking to the police without a lawyer. I also believe that in his mind he thought what he did was justified.


19 posted on 05/05/2012 6:01:38 AM PDT by Okieshooter
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To: Sacajaweau

If he just shot some guy dead, you would not expect him to try to color his story to his favor?


20 posted on 05/05/2012 6:13:32 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Brilliant
"color his story"....that's no different than saying he would NATURALLY lie.

So everyone who shoots someone is NATURALLY a liar.

Brilliant!!

21 posted on 05/05/2012 6:20:39 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Sacajaweau

Certainly if I were the detective investigating someone who just shot someone dead, I would not assume he wouldn’t lie. Most killers don’t come out and admit that they are guilty right off the bat.


22 posted on 05/05/2012 6:23:21 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Brilliant

“......I would not assume he wouldn’t lie.....”
**********************************************************
You may be “Brilliant” but you clearly have not been following this case closely. And, by closely, I mean going to the available source documentation (e.g., listening to the audio of the various 911 calls) and not listening solely to what you read and listen to in by the agendanistas in the mainstream media. Zimmerman was questioned for over 5 hours the night of the incident—the police didn’t assume ANYTHING.


23 posted on 05/05/2012 6:39:03 AM PDT by House Atreides
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To: BigCinBigD

Actually in my CHL renewal class last year, we were informed that we still can be sued, even though Texas passed the law that states we cannot be sued in Civil Court. The CHL instructor stated the Courts determined people have a right to sue. We all thought it was a BS decision.


24 posted on 05/05/2012 6:48:09 AM PDT by johngalt42 ("Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever" - • Mahatma Gandhi)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

bump for later


25 posted on 05/05/2012 6:55:27 AM PDT by Ditter
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To: Rearden
Why didn't Trayvon call 911?

What, seek help from the racist white folks' police?

He may have been on drugs, or he may not have wanted to be questioned about why he was standing around in the rain looking into the homes where no one was home. Of course he didn't know that the guy looking at him had called the dispatcher.

26 posted on 05/05/2012 7:27:48 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Later
(2ndMarDiv?)


27 posted on 05/05/2012 8:08:17 AM PDT by Tahoe3002
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To: House Atreides

“the police didn’t assume ANYTHING.”

I did not say they did. In fact, that was precisely my point. The authorities aren’t going to simply take your word for it that you were acting in self-defense when you shoot someone dead.


28 posted on 05/05/2012 9:46:09 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Rearden

Why didn’t Zimmerman stay in his truck?


29 posted on 05/05/2012 11:28:59 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel - Horace Walpole)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Here is an excellent analysis of the leftist-racist disinformation campaign in this case: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/05/trayvon_and_zimmerman_the_structure_and_elements_of_a_disinformation_campaign.html


30 posted on 05/05/2012 12:58:02 PM PDT by zot
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To: Oztrich Boy
Why didn’t Zimmerman stay in his truck?

Because he wanted to see where the suspicious person was going?

One could as easily ask, Why didn't Martin go home?

Both people had a legal right to be where there were, and do what they did until the physical altercation started.

31 posted on 05/05/2012 6:12:40 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

there were should be they were


32 posted on 05/05/2012 7:38:53 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: varon
Florida Code. 776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

33 posted on 05/05/2012 7:43:39 PM PDT by ironman
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To: Oztrich Boy

He is , or was , the Neighborhood Watch Capt. and he was in communication with 911 reporting on Trevon’s suspicious activity.

From what I have been able to gather from maps of the neighborhood and the 911 recordings, Zimmerman lost visual contact when Martin went between two townhouse buildings. He left his truck, because there was no way to drive on a street to see between those buildings, and walked a very short distance, according to the maps, in order to see where Martin went. It was there that Zimmerman was surprised and assaulted by Martin, who had doubled back. There is at least one witness to that assault.

Zimmerman will be acquitted. He will undoubtedly be a very wealthy man too, as soon as he is through suing the various media outlets, the special prosecutor, the State of Fla., Martin’s family, Martin’s family’s lawyer, and everyone else that I have not included here.


34 posted on 05/06/2012 2:51:32 AM PDT by Rearden (Deo Vindice)
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To: johngalt42

For good or ill, I think it is considered a breech of separation of powers if the legislature tries to or does pass a law saying somebody can’t sue.

It’s not up to the legislature to decide who does or does not have access to the courts.


35 posted on 05/06/2012 3:05:37 AM PDT by djf (Life's a play, we're actors not authors, and nobody even cared to give us the script!)
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To: djf

Good point.


36 posted on 05/07/2012 3:43:58 AM PDT by johngalt42 ("Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever" - • Mahatma Gandhi)
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