Posted on 05/10/2012 6:30:13 AM PDT by Reaganite Republican
That’s a sales call gone bad. The Russians essentially killed all of the decision-makers.
Hello, Boeing?
Seriously, I don’t mean to make light of such a tragedy, condolences to the families.
Reminds me of the time a few years ago when Bill Gates was showing off a new version of Windows and the computer Blue Screened. Of course a bunch of people didn’t die during the sales demo.
I don’t think I’d remain in the potential buyer pool.
Killing potential clients isn’t exactly a solid business plan.
And if they find no flaws they will go ahead with purchases? But it does sound like pilot error/bad weather.
Very sorry to hear of such a tragedy.We all (most of us?) travel by air.
How ridiculous to request permission to fly at 6000 feet when you are near a 7000 foot mountain. What was the air traffic controller thinking? What a tragedy of errors. Wasn’t there a flight plan? Didn’t they know where they were going? This is ridiculous.
I hate to LOL about something so messed up, but...LOL!
SalesGeek: ".... and HERE, we have the remaining metal fragments of the sleek, impressive looking frame. What a beauty she would have been!....."
SalesGeek: ".... and over HERE, there are bits of glass and wiring that was once the worlds Technological leader in 3D integrated LCD avionics.... sir, please don't step on that arm... thank you........"
SalesGeek: ".... and way over HERE, we have ....."
And so on.
“Seemed like a good idea at the time.”
Unless there was a problem with the navigation system this wouldn't be the plane's fault.Just about any plane would have problem when hitting a mountain at 450mph.Mind you,I never have flown...and never will fly...in a Soviet made aircraft.I'll walk first.
All air traffic flies near volcanos. It's part of the normal condition. They have air charts. The pilot should have known.
proves my point, what sort of moron would request flying permission for 6000 feet when near a 7000 foot mountain? What air traffic controller would say ok?
unless the pilot was a mohammedan, then the whole thing becomes easier to explain
As I said yesterday...I have some experience in that part of the world and two things that can be said are 1) it's a *very* mountainous part of the world...2) incredible thunderstorms are numerous there and they pop up out of nowhere on a moment's notice.I think I read that the weather had turned bad in that area at the time of the flight.
Or an FSB agent working for Putin. Passenger list might be interesting.
When I got picked up at the Perth, Australia airport, my buddy told me about a couple of years ago when a Garuda 747 tried to land on Route 1 outside the airport......that's the highway leading in to the airport, not a runway.
Given same operational environment Soviet commercial aircraft are safer than Western counterpart. Statistics proves that.
What,Soviet statistics? The University of East Anglia's statistics proved that we're all gonna burn up in 20 years.
“How ridiculous to request permission to fly at 6000 feet when you are near a 7000 foot mountain. What was the air traffic controller thinking? What a tragedy of errors. Wasn’t there a flight plan? Didn’t they know where they were going? This is ridiculous.”
“Pilot, do you mind if we drop down a bit so I can get some pictures of the volcano?”
Pilot to co-pilot: “You know this isn’t ending well.”
“Hey, what’s a mountain goat doing on a cloud bank?”
you are probably right
Potential buyers will scrutinize the crash investigation for signs of flaws in the plane.
Unless there was a problem with the navigation system this wouldn’t be the plane’s fault.Just about any plane would have problem when hitting a mountain at 450mph.Mind you,I never have flown...and never will fly...in a Soviet made aircraft.I’ll walk first.
I don’t know,But if I had the money and the Opportunity I would love to fly a Mig 29 of my own.
That thing could really haul.
“Given same operational environment Soviet commercial aircraft are safer than Western counterpart. Statistics proves that.”
Laughable.
“Wasn’t there a flight plan? Didn’t they know where they were going? This is ridiculous.”
Being a short sales demo flight, I doubt they were on an instrument flight plan. More likely they were showing off the plane under visual flight rules, making the crew entirely responsible for traffic and terrain avoidance.
If they were attempting to remain clear of clouds with the descent to 6000, it suggests that the mountain tops were obscured.
Really easy to smack into something at 480 mph, when you’re flying in a mountainous area and you can’t see what’s in front.
Only the guys on the flight deck know what happened for sure. And they’re no longer talking. Sad.
They are not Soviets who counts statistics for air crashes.
Russian civilian airliners are built military way with a lot of structural integrity and most systems dubbed.
For that reason if Tupolev airliner force lands on an abandoned WWII airsrip and ploughs a few hundred yards into thick forrest all passengers are just walking away from that crash. So does an aircraft itself taking off from that same place a week later after some repair.
A lot are still flying in Asia and Africa after 40 years where Boeing will fall apart lacking any proper maintenance.
Hmmm...I don't know.I get a little queasy pulling g's in my 4 door sedan.I think I'd take a rain check on that *regardless* of who made the aircraft.However,while in Australia a few years ago,I saw all sorts of ads for rides in supersonic fighter jets.I don't recall the type of aircraft having been specified but I gave it a miss. ;-)
(sadly, I couldn't find the Lord John Whorfin "Come on, feet, do your stuff!" moment on Youtube)
Not such a “super” jet now is it?
>>>>>>>“Given same operational environment Soviet commercial aircraft are safer than Western counterpart. Statistics proves that.”
Laughable.>>>>>>>>
What exactly is laughable? Soviet aircraft are often flown by careless carriers. That is a reason behing most crashes.
Not really on the controller...pilot had crap for brains.
FYI.
"Yet after numerous delays, only a handful have been produced, engine certification being a major snag."
Only time will tell what the problem was.
Now, tell me, where you going to land a plane without worrying about a volcano?
NOTE: Java has 44 major volcanoes, 20 of which have been active in modern times. Imagine Alabama or Mississippi with 44 major volcanic peaks. Fly a plane through there in your mind's eye. In the dark. When it's rainy.
You really don't know what you are writing about. Any commercial or military aircraft requires “proper” maintenance to remain airworthy. There are ancient Boeing 707s still in service as freighters and I think a few are still in passenger service with foreign airlines.
You can try to define “operational environment” in a way that will give you whatever result you want, but there is no way I would ever willingly fly in a TU-154 or an IL-76.
I forget what the MEA (minimum enroute altitude) is supposed to be over obstructions on the ground.
Yes, for example, Aeroflot. If Russian-built commercial aircraft were so superior, then I assure you that Western airlines would buy them. They don't. (The one exception I know about is a regional Italian airline that flies a few Su-100s.)
Think about the reaction from the drivers on the ground. And what the pilot and co-pilot thought when they noticed those cars!
I flew Garuda once many years ago. Not a good rep at the time, and I could see why.
Listening to the news all morning and didn’t see anything about this. Wonder why?
The Left has to sanitize failures of the Left in order to make collectivism appealing.
Interestingly, a Boeing office was on my site the last 18 hrs straight, downloading everything
I was on this story from the start two days ago because I found it particularly interesting the Russians were planning export offensives in the civil aircraft industry.
But their industry under Putin is one Soviet-style 5-year-plans BUT also forced unions withing the Russian Federation’s aircraft companies... when the only good thing about that business in Soviet times was often fierce competition between the ‘design bureaus’, such as Mig, Ilyushin, Sukhoi, Yak, et al.... that was what brought-about some of their best designs, actually
*** PING ***
“And if they find no flaws they will go ahead with purchases?”
That would be the $6M question, but obviously a very touchy subject, given the spotty Soviet safety record w/ Tu-154 and such
I would now expect Kremlinbucks to flow in the direction of Indonesian crash investigators...
“what sort of moron would request flying permission for 6000 feet when near a 7000 foot mountain? What air traffic controller would say ok?”
He asked permission but it was not actually ever granted, the Russians fell of radar and lost radio contact seconds after making the request.
Mind you,I never have flown...and never will fly...in a Soviet made aircraft.I’ll walk first... I, regrettably, have, and your decision is sound.
FOX early report on this says it may have been a fly by wire problem but not certain yet.
ok, I am duly impressed with your knowledge of Indonesia.
However, I thought this plane took off from Russia?
Yes, for example, Aeroflot. If Russian-built commercial aircraft were so superior, then I assure you that Western airlines would buy them. They don't. (The one exception I know about is a regional Italian airline that flies a few Su-100s.)
Maybe to Kamchatka ~
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