Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Did We Just Bail-Out GM with $80B Only to For Them to Move Most of the Company to Communist China?
Reaganite Republican ^ | May 30, 2012 | Reaganite Republican

Posted on 05/30/2012 9:31:18 AM PDT by Reaganite Republican



Regardless of how much of your money Obama throws at them, Government Motors clearly has NO interest in working with his UAW pals over the long-run- and why should they? 
GM executives were left to do pretty much as they please...




You can be forgiven for thinking that the serially-incompetent Obama Administration might have placed some restraints upon the $80B TARP bailout- but they didn't. 

The result?



Yet Trump -who screams about China ripping us off day-in-and-day-out while Detroit circles around the drain- is just a kook, 
right Barry the Volt-dolt?



Even you die-hard Obammunist union guys ought to realize by know we're getting raped here... one of our largest corporations took our $80B, then turned-around and invested heavily with a daunting political and military adversary... with money borrowed from the frickin Chinese in the first place! 


They're getting stronger every day... so why the hell are we helping them to conquer us all?


My Bay City   Wikipedia   Say Anything   YouTube   h/t Speedunque


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Conspiracy; Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: china; communist; gm; outsourcing

1 posted on 05/30/2012 9:31:31 AM PDT by Reaganite Republican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: ken5050

*** PING ***


2 posted on 05/30/2012 9:35:02 AM PDT by Reaganite Republican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican

If you let your wife-beater T shirt husband beat the hell out of you everytime the police aren’t there, why would you expect anything different? Because the police paid his bail last time and let him and his buddies out too? What do you expect?


3 posted on 05/30/2012 9:36:26 AM PDT by Gaffer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gaffer

SUPERB analogy

This stuff makes me cry, much of my family worked in the auto industry and I was a die-hard Pontiac guy back in the days... until the brand only produced hideous junk and then vanished from the face of the Earth completely


4 posted on 05/30/2012 9:38:30 AM PDT by Reaganite Republican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican

It’s a damned shame. I guess we’re gonna have to start breaking things down for the Democrat voter to understand in terms they know.


5 posted on 05/30/2012 9:43:46 AM PDT by Gaffer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican
Here in Mish all we hear about is the "great comeback"...yada yada...of course all the past "concerns" are being whitewashed/ignored(pensions/healthcare liabilities, viable business model, foreign competition, etc).

Like the rest of the U.S. economy, it's like the Titanic, the front part of the ship breaks off and sinks, those in the back part think they're safe...then.....

Trillions in borrowing can paint a nice faux finish...eventually reality bites you in the ass.

6 posted on 05/30/2012 9:45:35 AM PDT by RckyRaCoCo (I prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery, IXNAY THE TSA!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican
...now owns the famed WWII 'Arsenal of Democracy' Willow Run plant in Saginaw, Michigan.

That former bomber plant (Willow Run) is NOT IN Saginaw, Michigan. it is in Ypsilanti, MI. Also, there is hiring going on at several plants, Toledo, Ohio being one. Manufacturing in the US will never be the way it was, how can it? This administration is determined to destroy the middle class.

7 posted on 05/30/2012 9:55:03 AM PDT by madison10 (The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. TJ)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gaffer

“I guess we’re gonna have to start breaking things down for the Democrat voter to understand in terms they know”

What you referring to, bribery or force?

lol


8 posted on 05/30/2012 9:56:43 AM PDT by Reaganite Republican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: RckyRaCoCo

Michigan is never coming back imho


9 posted on 05/30/2012 9:58:16 AM PDT by Reaganite Republican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican

IT is all consistent with Obama’s plans/actions to quietly create a post America world. Its about dismantling, diminishing, and destroying American ability.

Its that overwhelming bitterness at work.

We need a American in that office.

FUBO


10 posted on 05/30/2012 9:59:13 AM PDT by himno hero (UQ)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: madison10

Thanks Madison, I should have known that... been by both before, and worked in MI

Conflicting articles called them both the “Arsenal of Democracy” plant, but the one the Chinese bought is Saginaw... not Willow Run.

Corrected on my site, much obliged sir

And what does GM have in Toodly-do? I only know of the Jeep plant


11 posted on 05/30/2012 10:03:27 AM PDT by Reaganite Republican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican
Due to this, Communist, totalitarian China's AVIC now owns the famed WWII 'Arsenal of Democracy' Willow Run plant in Saginaw, Michigan.

The Willow Run plan wasn't anywhere near Saginaw. It's in the eastern part of Ypsilanti Township, about 100 miles from Saginaw.

12 posted on 05/30/2012 10:04:44 AM PDT by Darren McCarty (The Republican Party is bigger than the presidency.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican

I should mention that China definitely is pushing hard with GM. Hummer was sold to the Chinese.


13 posted on 05/30/2012 10:07:30 AM PDT by Darren McCarty (The Republican Party is bigger than the presidency.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican

Toledo has a GM PowerTrain Plant—Transmissions. They took the work from the Willow Run plant, which has now been closed, and moved it to Toledo. The two plants were always in competition with each other and Willow was rather old. Sad.

Problem with the Willow Run plant-any transmission plant actually—is the supposed demise of the combustion engine.

(PS I’m a ma’am. LOL)


14 posted on 05/30/2012 10:10:46 AM PDT by madison10 (The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. TJ)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican

Regarding hiring at ANY auto plant in US: about as much chance of obtaining a job as winning the MegaMillions Jackpot. The odds are probably worse for the job.


15 posted on 05/30/2012 10:15:41 AM PDT by madison10 (The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. TJ)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican

Did We Just Bail-Out GM with $80B Only to For Them to Move Most of the Company to Communist China?.

Wonder if unions have played any part in it?.

Either way all thank you cards should be sent to Obama&Co.


16 posted on 05/30/2012 10:17:51 AM PDT by Vaduz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican

Yes, GM and the regime ripped off pretty much everyone. I’ll certainly never do business with them.

That said, going forward, how would you suggest GM deal with the largest auto market in the world?

Build cars in the USA, ship them to China, and lose money?

Sit on the sidelines and watch other companies make money?

Build cars in China, sell them in China, and make a profit?


17 posted on 05/30/2012 10:19:26 AM PDT by Darth Reardon (No offense to drunken sailors)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: madison10

OK Ma’am

My dad worked at Ford’s Cleveland Casting Plant, built in WWII and also essential in the war effort

And recently razed to the ground, although a new engine assembly plant and other older facilities remain there on Brookpark Rd next to Cleveland Hopkins Airport


18 posted on 05/30/2012 10:24:55 AM PDT by Reaganite Republican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Darren McCarty

Conflicting articles called them both the “Arsenal of Democracy” plant, but the one the Chinese bought is Saginaw... not Willow Run, as noted above.

As for Hummer... the Chinese have already developed their own clones of the car as well. Private companies can do as they please, and I understand building cars there for the Chinese mkt.

Where we run into trouble is $80B TARP bailouts with NO concern by the Obama administration for US jobs. They seemed to focus on aiding the UAW, so only incompetence and naivete could explain allowing GM to run off to China... and with R&D too, you know the Chinese demanded that in the deals.

Problem, thy name is OBAMA


19 posted on 05/30/2012 10:30:03 AM PDT by Reaganite Republican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican

An example of why Marx promoted ‘free trade’ (the unfettered movement of capital, freed from all political, national and religious shackles) to speed up the onset of global communism.


20 posted on 05/30/2012 10:49:49 AM PDT by khelus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican
Ha ha.....I guess I was referring (in hope) that it would be in the non-violent, non criminal way that all these Democrats bleat constantly about their behavior....
21 posted on 05/30/2012 11:43:15 AM PDT by Gaffer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican

I bet the union workers are happy!


22 posted on 05/30/2012 11:44:07 AM PDT by Mr. K (If Romney wins the primary, I am writing-in Palin/Gingrich)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican
I saw a commercial on TV the other day about LEASING a new Chevy for $39 a MONTH

( I recorded it )

They cannot possibly make money on that

I said it right from the start- Obambi did not need to take over the entire auto industry, only one company- they use the power of the tax dollars to drive the others out of business

who can compete with a $39 a month lease?

23 posted on 05/30/2012 12:02:19 PM PDT by Mr. K (If Romney wins the primary, I am writing-in Palin/Gingrich)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican

My husband and I were just talking last night about the cars that are gone..Pontiac,etc. and why Buick was left unscathed....and here’s your post...there it is... :)


24 posted on 05/30/2012 2:32:21 PM PDT by libertarian27 (Check my profile page for the FReeper Online Cookbook 2011)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Darth Reardon
Build cars in China, sell them in China, and make a profit?

That's far too sensible to ever fly here.

25 posted on 05/30/2012 3:10:27 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: khelus
An example of why Marx promoted ‘free trade’ (the unfettered movement of capital, freed from all political, national and religious shackles) to speed up the onset of global communism.

That quote, the unfettered movement of capital, freed from all political, national and religious shackles was used by Marx in an 1852 American newspaper article to describe a political movement in England, the "Manchester School" of economists who stood for freedom of trade and non-interference by the government with private enterprise.

It was written long before Das Kapital and neither the phrase nor the sentiment ever appears in Marx's eventual writings on his new, "economic" philosophy.

The quote is often used wrongly to smear those of us who also believe in the citizens' right to conduct their economic lives without the prior restraint of the government. To claim that Marx endorsed free trade is a serious misunderstanding of history -- or perhaps just an easy and dishonest way to insult that which every freedom-loving American should endorse.

I'm sick of it.

26 posted on 05/30/2012 3:36:48 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican
That would be AFFIRMATIVE. Hey, UAW, will GM be relocating you socialist slugs to Red China? You'll fit right in, but you will have to learn to work for a living there. They don't have welfare in China. They have an incentive plan: Work or starve, comrade.
27 posted on 05/30/2012 11:48:01 PM PDT by MasterGunner01 (11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BfloGuy

Ah, another citizen of the world heard from. Marx would be so proud of you. So would the global communists in business suits that he inspired.

It was capitalism (private ownership) infused with patriotism, morals, and a work ethic (an honest days work for an honest days pay) that made a large wealthy middle class in the US.

Adam Smith, so liberally quoted by free traders, assumed that individuals would prefer “support of domestic to that of foreign industry” and supported tariffs under certain circumstances. Smith’s world was one of small local businesses and their employees, precisely the people who are being destroyed by ‘free trade’ and globalists in their unending quest for CHEAP LABOR. [These same global corporations have no problem with using onerous regulation to squash competition from small local business.]

David Ricard, another icon of free traders, assumed in his theory of comparative advantage that there was a natural inclination to be patriotic when investing. In fact he admitted that comparative advantage did not exist if capital, labor, and technology freely moved across national boundaries.


28 posted on 05/31/2012 5:28:45 AM PDT by khelus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: MasterGunner01

A thought: only one hope for Michigan- make it a RIGHT TO WORK state. There is NO other answer but cutting-off the UAW labor-racket mob.

Other than that, forget it


29 posted on 05/31/2012 5:42:46 AM PDT by Reaganite Republican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Reaganite Republican

That should apply to IL and other heavily unionized states too!


30 posted on 05/31/2012 10:39:59 AM PDT by MasterGunner01 (11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: khelus
Ah, another citizen of the world heard from. Marx would be so proud of you. So would the global communists in business suits that he inspired.

Ah, so you have completely ignored the content of my post which was that Marx nor the Marxists ever endorsed free trade. How convenient it must be to post something without addressing the issues. It is obviously a belief of yours that free trade is Marxist (or communist,) but you are wrong. If you have some sources to refute that, please pass them along. But make them original sources and not second-hand crap from jingoists.

It was capitalism (private ownership) infused with patriotism, morals, and a work ethic (an honest days work for an honest days pay) that made a large wealthy middle class in the US.

Of course, it was. There is nothing in that statement I could possibly disagree with.

Adam Smith, so liberally quoted by free traders, assumed that individuals would prefer “support of domestic to that of foreign industry” and supported tariffs under certain circumstances.

Smith wrote at a time when an entrepreneur engaged in foreign trade would commit his capital to an endeavor that might take years to complete. Sailing a ship to the Americas, selling its cargo, and awaiting its return was a lengthy process and one, given the lack of communications at the time, meant that a British entrepreneur had no idea what was happening to his investment. It's only natural he would prefer a domestic placement of his funds if one could be found. None of that applies today.

Smith’s world was one of small local businesses and their employees, precisely the people who are being destroyed by ‘free trade’ and globalists in their unending quest for CHEAP LABOR.

You protectionists, or as I prefer to call you, advocates of more government control, always retreat to the "cheap labor" shibboleth. The reason why labor is more expensive, say, in the United States or other industrialized countries, is that other American industries have bid up these labor costs. These industries are therefore more efficient than the industry suffering from competition, and hence the latter should cut back or shut down and allow resources to shift to more efficient and productive fields.

You wish to live in a dream land where America can have its high labor costs, heavy government regulation, fiscal debt, inflationary monetary policy and still, somehow -- inexplicably -- all the jobs.

[These same global corporations have no problem with using onerous regulation to squash competition from small local business.]

You are correct -- it's called crony capitalism and Smith wrote about that, too.

"“People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.”

David Ricard[o], another icon of free traders, assumed in his theory of comparative advantage that there was a natural inclination to be patriotic when investing. In fact he admitted that comparative advantage did not exist if capital, labor, and technology freely moved across national boundaries.

He was wrong. Germany, Japan, and the United States disprove him. Germany and Japan remain exporting juggernauts and the U.S. still creates 19% of all the wealth created in the world. When I was in second grade (1962,) the U.S. created some 25% of the wealth. Given the explosive growth of Europe; South America; and Asia since then, it's quite remarkable that we still do so well.

That said, we could do better. But limiting Americans' ability to do business with the rest of the world is not the answer. Americans can only prosper if they are left free to conduct their business as they choose. Some will make mistakes, most will not.

In the end, it is you who would limit our opportunities by allowing the government to dictate -- under some half-wit notion of misguided nationalism -- whom we may sell our property to or buy our property from. It's really none of your business unless we're at war. That is the exception Adam Smith spoke of and I agree with him.

31 posted on 05/31/2012 4:05:22 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: BfloGuy; All
My my BfloGuy ... lots of words, assertions, and yet the following fact was conveniently ignored both in posts #26 and #31: FYI CHEAP LABOR is not a shibboleth except in your mind. It is the main reason global corporations move work overseas. Globalists do this under the cover of 'harmonizing' standards of living globally while in actuality they are pushing the standard of living down to the lowest global level.

"You wish to live in a dream land where America can have its high labor costs, heavy government regulation, fiscal debt, inflationary monetary policy and still, somehow -- inexplicably -- all the jobs."

Trying to get me to defend something I NEVER said or implied that eh?. Good Luck on that!

Since you claim you are against crony capitalism and government interference, I find it very interesting that your are not ranting on against GATT, NAFTA, CAFTA, the WTO, and the plenitude of 'free trade' agreements that define free trade in today's world. Again something you have conveniently ignored.
32 posted on 06/01/2012 6:01:46 AM PDT by khelus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: khelus
"...It [free trade] breaks up old nationalities and pushes the antagonism of the proletariat and the bourgeoisie to the extreme point. In a word, the free trade system hastens the social revolution. It is in this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, that I vote in favor of free trade.

I certainly stand corrected on that. His view does not, however, make free trade a Marxist policy. It pre-existed Marx, but he evidently found something [false] to endorse it. Allowing a free citizen of the United States to trade with whomever he wants in another country seems completely uncontroversial to me.

I call the excuse of "high wages" a shibboleth not because our wages aren't higher than, say, China's (they're lower than Germany's, though, for example,) but because labor costs are the largest expense that a company can control. It cannot change the tax laws, the environmental regulations, the safety rules, or unionized labor laws.

Since you claim you are against crony capitalism and government interference, I find it very interesting that your are not ranting on against GATT, NAFTA, CAFTA, the WTO,

I could certainly rant against those because they are anything but "free" trade. They are typical, big-government negotiated trade deals that are anything but free. The politicians refer to them as "free trade" deals, but that's smoke.

Free trade would mean simply that the citizens of any two countries can buy whatever they wish from each other. No negotiations, loopholes, hold-backs, WTO, or International Courts needed.

Our economic problems are not a result of free trade. They come from heavy corporate and capital taxation, massive federal deficit-spending, over-regulation of business, and the Fed's half-century policy of inflation.

Absent those burdens, American business would be competitive.

33 posted on 06/01/2012 2:53:19 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: BfloGuy

Hmm ... You dismiss what Smith and Ricardo have written about patriotism, dismiss what Marx has written about free trade, dismiss free trade as currently defined, discussed, and promoted by many politicians, economists, and academics, admit off-shoring is all about CHEAP labor, and promote your version of free trade that does not exist, has never existed, and will never exist as long as there are national boundaries and human nature. It is suspiciously like Marx’s unfettered movement of capital. Chasing after cheap labor will inevitably result in the standard of living being pushed down to the lowest global level.

While our economic problems are partially the result of heavy corporate and capital taxation, massive federal deficit-spending, over-regulation of business, and the Fed’s half-century policy of inflation, they are also the result of free trade as currently described and practiced. Note this includes flooding the country with illegals and guest workers.

Boy was Yuri correct!


34 posted on 06/03/2012 9:28:47 AM PDT by khelus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: khelus
Hmm ... You dismiss what Smith and Ricardo have written about patriotism

I do. I was not born an economic slave to my countrymen.

, dismiss what Marx has written about free trade,

Of course, I do. It's untrue. His prediction didn't happen did it.

dismiss free trade as currently defined, discussed, and promoted by many politicians, economists, and academics,

You're getting ridiculous. Free trade is free trade. It's a simple concept. People can trade with anyone they wish.

Tell me what you would implement in its place. Instead of picking apart my arguments, let me have a go at yours -- if you have any.

35 posted on 06/03/2012 3:51:22 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: BfloGuy

Good luck fighting a war with China and Russia when all the U.S. can produce is french fries and sitcoms.


36 posted on 06/03/2012 3:58:11 PM PDT by Sirius Lee (Goode or Evil, that's the choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson