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WILL STATE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTIONS CONVENE IN 2013 OR 2014 ?
Graewoulf | June 28, 2012 | Graewoulf

Posted on 06/28/2012 10:20:56 AM PDT by Graewoulf

Now that Chief Justice John Roberts has destroyed the boundary between the Judiciary and the Legislative Branches of the US Federal Government by changing a legally approved fine into a tax with no vote from the Legislature, there is no limit to what laws the SCOTUS can now reinterpret to their benefit.

The Backdoor conversion of a fine in Obama"care" into a tax by Justice Roberts requires that the people convert the other Rogue rulings of the SOCTUS into rulings consistent with the US Constitution. Obviously this cannot be done by lawyers, as lawyers do not obey rules, they just reinterpret laws to suit themselves.

"When" the States hold their Constitutional Conventions is the question addressed in this thread. The "IF" was eliminated today by Chief Justice John Roberts.


TOPICS: Government; Health/Medicine; History; Politics
KEYWORDS: congress; scotus; socialism; tax
Obama"care" is the Death Knell for America, and this horrific law was upheld today by our SCOTUS. The People must rewrite the US Constitution so as to restore the System of Checks and Balances between our co-equal branches of Government, first with the Judiciary, and then a severe reduction in the authority of the President.

What say all of you?

1 posted on 06/28/2012 10:21:02 AM PDT by Graewoulf
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To: Graewoulf

Sure, why not. I cant wait for Madison, Franklin, and Monroe to show up. Dead guys will totally offset the delegates from Chicago, NYC, L.A. and Detroit.


2 posted on 06/28/2012 10:24:58 AM PDT by VanDeKoik
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To: Graewoulf

“The People must rewrite the US Constitution “

Our Constitution is just fine as it is.

We just need to water a few trees.


3 posted on 06/28/2012 10:25:36 AM PDT by Gadsden1st
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To: Graewoulf

The Poor Peoples Party shall win the day.


4 posted on 06/28/2012 10:30:35 AM PDT by Drill Thrawl (Another day. Another small provocation. Another step closer.)
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To: Graewoulf

State constitutional convention(S)? I haven’t heard that anyone in various state governments has proposed various constitutional conventions (in the plural). Who has?

The Constitutional Convention, which created our constitution of the 1780s was held by all the states, as one convention.

Leading Conservatives have always opposed another (universal/all state) constitutional convention because it would be very easy for one group (liberals, or even moderates) to commandeer it—and turn the USA into a totally socialist country overnight....in a bloodless revolution.

Just imagine if the current congress (House & Senate) had the power to re-write the entire constitution...I wouldn’t trust them at all!

We’d be a fascist nightmare parody of America within days, with a new constitutional convention.

Even the most conservative Republicans do not have the depth of insight of the Founders about limited government...let alone the moderates and liberals—who would likely overpower real conservatives. The last thing we want is a constitutional convention.


5 posted on 06/28/2012 10:34:05 AM PDT by AnalogReigns (reality is analog, not digital...)
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To: Graewoulf

“Chief Justice John Roberts has destroyed the boundary between the Judiciary and the Legislative Branches of the US Federal Government by changing a legally approved fine into a tax with no vote from the Legislature ...”
///
best summary i’ve seen today,
of the constitutional disaster.
-
but, i want to know WHY Roberts suddenly changed,
from a constitutionalist, to an activist?
certainly, he must know what he’s done?
-
and i think a convention would make things much worse.
the Constitution is fine, as written!
...we only have problems, when activists like Roberts,
don’t follow it.


6 posted on 06/28/2012 10:36:23 AM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Graewoulf

You try that, and we will have marxism in no time.


7 posted on 06/28/2012 10:42:25 AM PDT by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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To: Graewoulf

The Constitution spells out four paths for an amendment:

Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state conventions (never used)
Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state legislatures (never used)
Proposal by Congress, ratification by state conventions (used once 21st amendment)
Proposal by Congress, ratification by state legislatures (used all other times)

At no point does the President have a role in the formal amendment process

Biggest hurdle...we don’t have the right people in congress to make any amendment possible...a bill has to pass both houses of the legislature, by a two-thirds majority in each.


8 posted on 06/28/2012 10:46:33 AM PDT by An American! (Proud To Be An American!)
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To: Graewoulf

I did not know this:
http://www.usconstitution.net/constamprop.html

In every session of Congress, hundreds of constitutional amendments are proposed. Almost never do any of them become actual Amendments. In fact, almost never do any of them even get out of committee.
Number of amendments proposed in each of the sessions of Congress in the 1990’s:

105th (1997-98): 103
104th (1995-96): 158
103rd (1993-94): 156
102nd (1991-92): 165
101st (1989-90): 214

Here are a few of them...
103rd Congress (1993-1994)

- To allow a Presidential pardon of an individual only after said individual has been tried and convicted of a crime
- To allow Congress to pass legislation to allow the Supreme Court to remove federal judges from office
- To provide for the reconfirmation of federal judges every 10 years
- To provide for the recall of Representatives and Senators
- To remove automatic citizenship of children born in the U.S. to non-resident parents
- To enable or repeal laws by popular vote
- To define a process to allow amendments to the Constitution be proposed by a popular (”grass-roots”) effort
- To force a three-fifths vote for any bill that raises taxes
- To prohibit retroactive taxation
- To provide for run-off Presidential elections if no one candidate receives more than 50% of the vote
- To prohibit abortion
- To bar imposition on the States of unfunded federal mandates


9 posted on 06/28/2012 10:51:11 AM PDT by An American! (Proud To Be An American!)
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To: Graewoulf

No to a constitutional convention, until after a successful military campaign to remove the leftists from the nation. To do so now would be the same as allowing the British into the 1787 Philadelphia convention. Then it would be safe to have one.


10 posted on 06/28/2012 10:52:08 AM PDT by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: Graewoulf
The People must rewrite the US Constitution so as to restore the System of Checks and Balances between our co-equal branches of Government...

If they are ignoring or destroying the greatest Constitution, produced by the greatest minds the world has known... what could be produced NOW, that would bear more weight?

Have you ever watched a dog chase it's tail?

11 posted on 06/28/2012 10:58:09 AM PDT by loboinok (Gun control is hitting what you aim at!)
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To: GenXteacher

What is to lose in having one now: the government can now seize property at will; the government now has the power to tax anything into being, bypassing the commerce clause entirely, Search and seizure, ever taken a look at the forfeiture statutes and warrantless actions now condoned, the second amendment is hanging by one vote and will be gone with any change of the guard, birthright citizenship for illegal alien offsprings on and on. Oh, let’s not forget the progressive income tax.

No sir, the best thing that could happen is we start over: alt control delete this government as it now stands. Best part is all those asshat black caucus members will lose their seniority. What worked in 1800 is not working now probably because we have a professional government now, not citizen representatives.


12 posted on 06/28/2012 11:15:09 AM PDT by Mouton (Voting is an opiate of the electorate. Nothing changes no matter who wins..)
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To: AnalogReigns

” - - - and turn the USA into a totally socialist country overnight....in a bloodless revolution. - - - “

Isn’t that what Chief Justice John Roberts just did a few hours ago?


13 posted on 06/28/2012 11:17:10 AM PDT by Graewoulf ((Dictator Baby-Doc Barack's obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Graewoulf

As a practical endeavor, a new Constitutional Convention would be a real mess.

The THREAT of the states launching one, however, could be an effective tactic in reigning government back in. Like how FDR wasn’t able to pack the Court but his effort to do so bought about a rapid change of heart in Justice Owen Roberts; the switch in time that saved nine.

Recall that in 1994 Republican governors proposed a “Convention of the States” to propose ideas for fixing things like unfunded mandates. The concept scared the heck out of people ... To the point where the idea was dropped after the elections. No one wants a Const Convention: there’s no way of determining where it would go (like how the original Constitutional Convention was called in order to do a quick cleanup of the Articles of Confederation.)


14 posted on 06/28/2012 11:17:55 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: Defiant

” - - - You try that, and we will have marxism in no time. - - - “

How does that differ from what Chief Justice John Roberts accomplished today?


15 posted on 06/28/2012 11:20:44 AM PDT by Graewoulf ((Dictator Baby-Doc Barack's obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Graewoulf

Nothing, but the Constitution is still formally the law. Get rid of it, and then look out below. It’s like a Roman idol that the late emperors paid false homage to. If you get rid of it, and replace it with Lucifer, then it lets all kinds of evil be unleashed.


16 posted on 06/28/2012 11:26:07 AM PDT by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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To: tanknetter

” - - - Recall that in 1994 Republican governors proposed a “Convention of the States” - - - “

Good! Let’s work with that idea and see where it leads us. Congress did that with Obama”care” and the SCOTUS bailed them out.

To paraphrase Nancy Pelosi: “You never know what is going to happen until you do it!”


17 posted on 06/28/2012 11:28:52 AM PDT by Graewoulf ((Dictator Baby-Doc Barack's obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND U.S. Constitution.))
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To: tanknetter

A more realistic threat is to simply have certain states refuse to follow the feds unconstitutional usurpation of their citizens’ liberties. Instead of seceding to perpetuate slavery, the states will leave the union to prevent their citizens from becoming slaves. I can support that.


18 posted on 06/28/2012 11:30:14 AM PDT by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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To: Defiant

” - - - If you get rid of it, and replace it with Lucifer, then it lets all kinds of evil be unleashed. - - - “

Well, I wouldn’t call Obama Lucifer, but I agree that what you describe is what we have now.

Since the water is near boiling now, do you want to jump out and put out the fire, or just be a good little froggie and float with the flow?


19 posted on 06/28/2012 11:37:07 AM PDT by Graewoulf ((Dictator Baby-Doc Barack's obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Elendur
but, i want to know WHY Roberts suddenly changed

I've read the opinions.

It's obvious that the Scalia opinion was the majority opinion, and the Ginsburg opinion was the dissent.

Roberts chose to re-interpret the fine as a tax because he could not approve the mandate but was afraid for the whole law to go down 5-4.

20 posted on 06/28/2012 11:40:45 AM PDT by Jim Noble (Anna Wintour makes Teresa Heinz Kerry look like Dolly Parton.)
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To: Graewoulf

I wouldn’t NOT call Obama Lucifer.


21 posted on 06/28/2012 11:49:37 AM PDT by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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To: GenXteacher

No to violence! We tried that in our horrific Civil War and ended up with an even more powerful Central Government.

Just hold peaceful individual State Constitutional Conventions, split the former USA into multi-State Republics, and let the people vote with their feet to seek out the Republic that has the level of Liberty that they want.

The Great Experiment to force the USA back into the Feudalism/Socialism of Europe was begun by FDR’s Social Security System, and ended today with SCOTUS approval of Obama”care.”

Life goes on. What 60 % of American’s want did not matter to Chief John Roberts and Dictator “You Lie” Obama.

Is it time to hop out of the near boiling water, or just keep on hoping for change?


22 posted on 06/28/2012 11:51:17 AM PDT by Graewoulf ((Dictator Baby-Doc Barack's obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Graewoulf

You are mad. A constitutional convention is the LAST thing you want. It would usher in more Leftward changes than you could possibly fathom.


23 posted on 06/28/2012 11:56:09 AM PDT by newzjunkey
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To: Jim Noble

Well, that makes no sense, because I and anyone who appreciates the Constitution would be more afraid of seeing the whole law upheld 5-4.


24 posted on 06/28/2012 11:59:48 AM PDT by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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To: Jim Noble

” - - - but was afraid for the whole law to go down 5-4. “

And so History will record, on this “day of infamy” that a cowardly Chief Justice John Roberts, choked by fear, pushed the United States of America over the financial cliff into the rat’s nest of European Socialism. Thereby dooming all future generations of Americans to be subservient to the owners of pre-2013 US Treasury Bonds.

” Oh, - - - the humanity - - - ! “


25 posted on 06/28/2012 12:02:53 PM PDT by Graewoulf ((Dictator Baby-Doc Barack's obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND U.S. Constitution.))
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To: newzjunkey

” - - - It would usher in more Leftward changes than you could possibly fathom.”

Believe me, this is not America anymore.

Keep hoping for change, ‘cause you never know!


26 posted on 06/28/2012 12:08:01 PM PDT by Graewoulf ((Dictator Baby-Doc Barack's obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Elendur

Thanks.

The US Constitution as written is just fine.

The US Constitution as implemented is where the problem is.

The Check and Balance of last resort on Rogue Branches of Governments are the States in the Union.

Each State is to hold a State Constitutional Convention to compile enough States of like interests to reach the minimum number of States to rewrite the US Constitution.

This is a tedious process, and would take years, but no bloodshed.

Meanwhile, the financial markets will soon absorb the financial entity that once was the US Federal Government, due to the collapse of the Federal Debt Bubble.

This Federal Debt Bubble will pop as quickly as a major country, say China, stops buying US Treasury Bonds.

When the FHA went bankrupt in September 2008, 30 % of the wealth in the world was destroyed in a few months. The Federal Debt Bubble will have a much bigger decline.

So do we can sit here for years and watch spoiled brat, fat cat politicians sling mud at each other, or spend our time rewriting the rules for their sorry little behinds?

Roberts could not see himself an an upholder of the Ideals of our Founding Fathers. He should resign.

Roberts is a compromiser. He wanted to vote against the individual mandate as a jack-boot instrument of Government Cruelty, but found a way to support it by illegally converting a fine into a tax. For this he should be IMPEACHED.

People in DC love to compromise-away their most deeply held values. The reason is simple: there are no penalties for doing so.


27 posted on 06/28/2012 12:37:58 PM PDT by Graewoulf ((Dictator Baby-Doc Barack's obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND U.S. Constitution.))
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To: newzjunkey

No. The last thing I want is what happened today: there no longer is a difference between two branches of our Federal Government.

It is time to call State Constitutional Conventions to put some teeth in our US Constitution, and remove a LOT of teeth from The Administration Branch of our Federal Government.


28 posted on 06/28/2012 1:56:08 PM PDT by Graewoulf ((Dictator Baby-Doc Barack's obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Gadsden1st
Our Constitution is just fine as it is.

No, it isn't we need to get rid of the 16th amendment, the 17th amendment, the 14th amendment and enact amendments prohibiting: variable taxes, over-spending/borrowing (say, no debt assumed which makes total debt > 110% of actual money in treasury), repealing/restricting the commerce clause.

We just need to water a few trees.

Aye, watering.

29 posted on 06/28/2012 2:04:28 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Graewoulf

“No to violence! We tried that in our horrific Civil War and ended up with an even more powerful Central Government.

Just hold peaceful individual State Constitutional Conventions, split the former USA into multi-State Republics, and let the people vote with their feet to seek out the Republic that has the level of Liberty that they want.”

Fedzilla will not allow the states to leave the Union, nor will it allow the states to rearrange the structure of said union peacefully.


30 posted on 06/28/2012 3:25:14 PM PDT by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: OneWingedShark

I stand corrected. My main concern is that all branches of the Federal Government ignore the US Constitution. I would like to see some teeth put in it.

There are lots of parts that have nothing to do with the original intent of the US Constitution. Thank you for reminding me of them.


31 posted on 06/28/2012 8:39:45 PM PDT by Graewoulf ((Dictator Baby-Doc Barack's obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Graewoulf
I stand corrected. My main concern is that all branches of the Federal Government ignore the US Constitution. I would like to see some teeth put in it.
There are lots of parts that have nothing to do with the original intent of the US Constitution. Thank you for reminding me of them.

You're welcome; it is sometimes all too easy to forget. But then again there is that portions about what evils we become accustomed to in the Declaration of Independence... I think the signers would completely understand.

And yes; the main problem with the Constitution is that there is [generally] no penalty for disregarding it. Especially with respect to the heads of the three branches.

32 posted on 06/28/2012 10:23:51 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark; smoothsailing; AllAmericanGirl44; Absolutely Nobama; kara2008; kiltie65; ...

Thanks for clearing up my “fog of posting.” If only politics could be so easy!

Make a list of things that have strayed from our original US Constitution, and think about other matters that need to be revised or strengthened in each of our now inevitable State Constitutional Conventions.

In my HUMBLE, but usually correct opinion, here is how I see us FReepers fitting to the various flows of potential History:

1.) IF Romney is not DUMPED in Tampa by an ABSTAIN vote by the Convention Delegates on the first ballot, then Obama will beat Romney by 10 % of the popular vote in November. We are a big city Nation, and love our “free” entitlements, no FIT for 49 % of the working age voters, usually believe what the Socialist re-education TV channels and their polls tell us how we should vote, AND Obama is an Incumbent this time, which is usually good for a 40 % base vote.

2.) On the outside chance that Romney is Nominated and beats Obama by the 3-4 % poll margin of error, we get Romney”care” and a whole lot of Bipartisan “stimulus” spending. ( Sound familiar)?

3.) With # 1, or # 2, the Total National Debt will increase, the economy will continue to shrink to adjust to the National Debt, increased punitive regulations, and a sharp increase in taxation of the productive people and businesses in Amerika.

If Obama is re-elected then the ruined National Economy will assure that even a Socialist Republican like Romney will beat Dem. Nominee Hilly of the Hilly and Billy Show.

If Romney is elected in 2012, then the nearly ruined National Economy will assure that Hilly will win in a LANDSLIDE! WOW! What a dual Presidency they will make! “On the left is Hilly, Obama’s former Secretary of Statements, and on the right is IMPEACHED Zipper-Boy, who did not go to Jail for telling a Lie to a Federal Judge! Give it up folks for the dueling Democrats that just can’t get enough of that White House Silverware. 8 full years! 8 full YEARS!! 8 FULL YEARS!!!”

4.) If neither Romney or Obama win in November, that is a REAL Republican beats Obama, someone of the integrity of Sen. Jim DeMint, then Entitlements can be privatized, total baseline spending can be cut, Dodd-Frank and other Bolshevik laws and regulations can be abolished, and singing “The Star Spangled Banner” will once again bring lumps to our throats.

As I see it, the only good case is # 4, and it has the lowest probability of success. Voter Mental Inertia being what it is, the RINOs will once again choose their most Liberal guy to lose in a “surprising” loss to a Democrat.

5.) To break this cycle of Insanity, ( the Einstein”s definition), here is my Plan:

* Do our best to Dump Romney in Tampa.

* Work very hard to take over the Republican Party before the 2014 Federal Election: attend GOP meetings, get elected to their local power seats, build networks of anti-RINOs, vocally and financially support men and women who are anti-RINO and pro-Conservative, etc.

* Work very hard to replace as many RINOs as possible in Congress.

My assumption is that RINOs are an essential part of the problem, and have only a trivial influence on the solution.

My second assumption is that it will be a lot quicker to take over the Republican Party that to start a third political party. Besides, what has the RINO Party done for us lately?

* After our victory in the 2014 Federal Election, we will have a strong base to support a President that can CONSERVE WHAT IS THE BEST OF AMERICA.

Right now Amerika is on the path of least resistance, which throughout History has always been to sell oneself into slavery.

Can we stop in the middle of this on-rushing flow of Socialist sewage?

Can we make it to the shore of the Conservative ‘Plymouth Rock’ that gives us the hope of a better life for our descendants?

Or do we just float with the flow, and allow those who hold our pre-2013 Treasury Bonds to care for us from cradle to grave?

What say all of you?


33 posted on 06/29/2012 7:59:28 AM PDT by Graewoulf ((Dictator Baby-Doc Barack's obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Graewoulf
About "CONSERVE WHAT IS THE BEST OF AMERICA" .. I really don't think that is what the electorate want, or need, to hear.

My second assumption is that it will be a lot quicker to take over the Republican Party that to start a third political party. Besides, what has the RINO Party done for us lately?

I'm dubious about this assumption.
In all honesty, we need to leave "conservative" behind; precisely because 'conservative principals' would, at this point, demand a huge change in our government, and therefore conserve very little. Given that, I think third-party is the only way to leave the miasma of "go along to get along" defeat and "we say things but don't do them" -- repeal of Roe v. Wade has been officially a Republican Party plank since at least the mid 80s; when was the last time you heard about actual action on that done by any of the branches of government? -- and, above all, we need a psychological break from "our party"... we need to realize that the Republican Party is the enemy and build a real us vs them mentality.

This third party needs to be something that's all about Truth, Justice, and Integrity first and foremost... even above the Constitution. (Remember, the Constitution is utterly useless when not applied to a moral people.) Then it needs to be about the Constitution. -- The reasoning here is simple: the USSC has determined what "constitutional" means to such a point that the legal "constitutional" and unjust are fair synonyms: Wickard, Raich, Kelo, Roe, US v AZ, ObamaCare. Unless we put Justice ahead of "legal" or "constitutional" this trend cannot and will not be corrected.

Now, this doesn't mean we need to make a third party; we could all 'defect' to, say, the Constitution party.

I suppose that it is possible to do it staying within the Republican Party; but I want you to take a good look at the 2010 "Tea Party" republicans and answer this: Have they been effective, or have they [as a whole] "joined the party" at the political Republican table?

34 posted on 06/29/2012 8:39:58 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Graewoulf

Some great questions. I am quoting someone from another string, but he said (paraphrasing) that depending on elections to favor the constitution today makes as much sense as depending on winning the lottery to pay your bills.

I believe that the only constitutional solution left that will have any effect is to hold a constitutional convention. Our government is supposed to protect our rights and liberties, and my feeling is that the government does not fear the People enough do that anymore.


35 posted on 06/29/2012 9:12:16 AM PDT by C.O. Correspondence (The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time...)
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