Posted on 06/28/2012 10:20:56 AM PDT by Graewoulf
Now that Chief Justice John Roberts has destroyed the boundary between the Judiciary and the Legislative Branches of the US Federal Government by changing a legally approved fine into a tax with no vote from the Legislature, there is no limit to what laws the SCOTUS can now reinterpret to their benefit.
The Backdoor conversion of a fine in Obama"care" into a tax by Justice Roberts requires that the people convert the other Rogue rulings of the SOCTUS into rulings consistent with the US Constitution. Obviously this cannot be done by lawyers, as lawyers do not obey rules, they just reinterpret laws to suit themselves.
"When" the States hold their Constitutional Conventions is the question addressed in this thread. The "IF" was eliminated today by Chief Justice John Roberts.
What say all of you?
Sure, why not. I cant wait for Madison, Franklin, and Monroe to show up. Dead guys will totally offset the delegates from Chicago, NYC, L.A. and Detroit.
“The People must rewrite the US Constitution “
Our Constitution is just fine as it is.
We just need to water a few trees.
The Poor Peoples Party shall win the day.
State constitutional convention(S)? I haven’t heard that anyone in various state governments has proposed various constitutional conventions (in the plural). Who has?
The Constitutional Convention, which created our constitution of the 1780s was held by all the states, as one convention.
Leading Conservatives have always opposed another (universal/all state) constitutional convention because it would be very easy for one group (liberals, or even moderates) to commandeer it—and turn the USA into a totally socialist country overnight....in a bloodless revolution.
Just imagine if the current congress (House & Senate) had the power to re-write the entire constitution...I wouldn’t trust them at all!
We’d be a fascist nightmare parody of America within days, with a new constitutional convention.
Even the most conservative Republicans do not have the depth of insight of the Founders about limited government...let alone the moderates and liberals—who would likely overpower real conservatives. The last thing we want is a constitutional convention.
“Chief Justice John Roberts has destroyed the boundary between the Judiciary and the Legislative Branches of the US Federal Government by changing a legally approved fine into a tax with no vote from the Legislature ...”
///
best summary i’ve seen today,
of the constitutional disaster.
-
but, i want to know WHY Roberts suddenly changed,
from a constitutionalist, to an activist?
certainly, he must know what he’s done?
-
and i think a convention would make things much worse.
the Constitution is fine, as written!
...we only have problems, when activists like Roberts,
don’t follow it.
You try that, and we will have marxism in no time.
The Constitution spells out four paths for an amendment:
Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state conventions (never used)
Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state legislatures (never used)
Proposal by Congress, ratification by state conventions (used once 21st amendment)
Proposal by Congress, ratification by state legislatures (used all other times)
At no point does the President have a role in the formal amendment process
Biggest hurdle...we don’t have the right people in congress to make any amendment possible...a bill has to pass both houses of the legislature, by a two-thirds majority in each.
I did not know this:
http://www.usconstitution.net/constamprop.html
In every session of Congress, hundreds of constitutional amendments are proposed. Almost never do any of them become actual Amendments. In fact, almost never do any of them even get out of committee.
Number of amendments proposed in each of the sessions of Congress in the 1990’s:
105th (1997-98): 103
104th (1995-96): 158
103rd (1993-94): 156
102nd (1991-92): 165
101st (1989-90): 214
Here are a few of them...
103rd Congress (1993-1994)
- To allow a Presidential pardon of an individual only after said individual has been tried and convicted of a crime
- To allow Congress to pass legislation to allow the Supreme Court to remove federal judges from office
- To provide for the reconfirmation of federal judges every 10 years
- To provide for the recall of Representatives and Senators
- To remove automatic citizenship of children born in the U.S. to non-resident parents
- To enable or repeal laws by popular vote
- To define a process to allow amendments to the Constitution be proposed by a popular (”grass-roots”) effort
- To force a three-fifths vote for any bill that raises taxes
- To prohibit retroactive taxation
- To provide for run-off Presidential elections if no one candidate receives more than 50% of the vote
- To prohibit abortion
- To bar imposition on the States of unfunded federal mandates
No to a constitutional convention, until after a successful military campaign to remove the leftists from the nation. To do so now would be the same as allowing the British into the 1787 Philadelphia convention. Then it would be safe to have one.
If they are ignoring or destroying the greatest Constitution, produced by the greatest minds the world has known... what could be produced NOW, that would bear more weight?
Have you ever watched a dog chase it's tail?
What is to lose in having one now: the government can now seize property at will; the government now has the power to tax anything into being, bypassing the commerce clause entirely, Search and seizure, ever taken a look at the forfeiture statutes and warrantless actions now condoned, the second amendment is hanging by one vote and will be gone with any change of the guard, birthright citizenship for illegal alien offsprings on and on. Oh, let’s not forget the progressive income tax.
No sir, the best thing that could happen is we start over: alt control delete this government as it now stands. Best part is all those asshat black caucus members will lose their seniority. What worked in 1800 is not working now probably because we have a professional government now, not citizen representatives.
” - - - and turn the USA into a totally socialist country overnight....in a bloodless revolution. - - - “
Isn’t that what Chief Justice John Roberts just did a few hours ago?
As a practical endeavor, a new Constitutional Convention would be a real mess.
The THREAT of the states launching one, however, could be an effective tactic in reigning government back in. Like how FDR wasn’t able to pack the Court but his effort to do so bought about a rapid change of heart in Justice Owen Roberts; the switch in time that saved nine.
Recall that in 1994 Republican governors proposed a “Convention of the States” to propose ideas for fixing things like unfunded mandates. The concept scared the heck out of people ... To the point where the idea was dropped after the elections. No one wants a Const Convention: there’s no way of determining where it would go (like how the original Constitutional Convention was called in order to do a quick cleanup of the Articles of Confederation.)
” - - - You try that, and we will have marxism in no time. - - - “
How does that differ from what Chief Justice John Roberts accomplished today?
Nothing, but the Constitution is still formally the law. Get rid of it, and then look out below. It’s like a Roman idol that the late emperors paid false homage to. If you get rid of it, and replace it with Lucifer, then it lets all kinds of evil be unleashed.
” - - - Recall that in 1994 Republican governors proposed a “Convention of the States” - - - “
Good! Let’s work with that idea and see where it leads us. Congress did that with Obama”care” and the SCOTUS bailed them out.
To paraphrase Nancy Pelosi: “You never know what is going to happen until you do it!”
A more realistic threat is to simply have certain states refuse to follow the feds unconstitutional usurpation of their citizens’ liberties. Instead of seceding to perpetuate slavery, the states will leave the union to prevent their citizens from becoming slaves. I can support that.
” - - - If you get rid of it, and replace it with Lucifer, then it lets all kinds of evil be unleashed. - - - “
Well, I wouldn’t call Obama Lucifer, but I agree that what you describe is what we have now.
Since the water is near boiling now, do you want to jump out and put out the fire, or just be a good little froggie and float with the flow?
I've read the opinions.
It's obvious that the Scalia opinion was the majority opinion, and the Ginsburg opinion was the dissent.
Roberts chose to re-interpret the fine as a tax because he could not approve the mandate but was afraid for the whole law to go down 5-4.
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