Skip to comments.What John Roberts really did for us
Posted on 06/30/2012 11:52:15 AM PDT by Starman417
Pyrrhus was king of the Hellenistic kingdom of Epirus whose costly military successes against Macedonia and Rome gave rise to the phrase' Pyrrhic victory'.
In 281 BC Tarentum, a Greek colony in southern Italy, asked his assisstance against Rome. Pyrrhus crossed to Italy with 25,000 men and 20 elephants. He won a complete, but costly, victory over a Roman army at Heraclea. In 279 Pyrrhus, again suffering heavy casualties, defeated the Romans at Asculum.
His remark 'Another such victory and I shall be ruined' gave name to the term 'Pyrrhic victory' for a victory obtained at to great a cost. Later he tried to create a kdm of Sicily, but his harsh methods provoked a revolt of the Greek Sicilians and he returned to Italy. In 275 the Romans defeated him at Beneventum.
The dust blasted into the air from the impact of the Obamacare decision hitting Washington has yet to settle but it's recriminations all around. SCOTUS Chief Justice John Roberts is getting toasted by the right. Mark Levin calls the decision "lawless" and the NY Times and Michael Savage questions Roberts' mental health status. But hold on- I think Roberts did us a favor.
Roberts struck down the mandate as it pertained to the Commerce Clause and ruled that Obamacare is a tax. A lot of taxes, actually- on families and small businesses.
And that recalls Barack Obama's words to Americans. Candidate Obama and President Obama, that is. They each promised us different things.
Candidate Obama was against the personal mandate.
[VIDEO AT SITE] or HERE
For more fun, watch this
[VIDEO AT SITE or HERE
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) said that Obamacare represented a big middle class tax increase.
President Obama swore that Obamacare was not a tax.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You were against the individual mandate
STEPHANOPOULOS: during the campaign. Under this mandate, the government is forcing people to spend money, fining you if you dont. How is that not a tax?
OBAMA: Well, hold on a second, George. Here heres whats happening. You and I are both paying $900, on average our families in higher premiums because of uncompensated care. Now what Ive said is that if you cant afford health insurance, you certainly shouldnt be punished for that. Thats just piling on. If, on the other hand, were giving tax credits, weve set up an exchange, you are now part of a big pool, weve driven down the costs, weve done everything we can and you actually can afford health insurance, but youve just decided, you know what, I want to take my chances. And then you get hit by a bus and you and I have to pay for the emergency room care, thats
STEPHANOPOULOS: That may be, but its still a tax increase.
OBAMA: No. Thats not true, George. The for us to say that youve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase. What its saying is, is that were not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase. People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that Im not covering all the costs.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But it may be fair, it may be good public policy
OBAMA: No, but but, George, you you cant just make up that language and decide that thats called a tax increase. Any
STEPHANOPOULOS: Heres the
OBAMA: What what if I if I say that right now your premiums are going to be going up by 5 or 8 or 10 percent next year and you say well, thats not a tax increase; but, on the other hand, if I say that I dont want to have to pay for you not carrying coverage even after I give you tax credits that make it affordable, then
STEPHANOPOULOS: I I dont think Im making it up. Merriam Websters Dictionary: Tax a charge, usually of money, imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes.
OBAMA: George, the fact that you looked up Merriams Dictionary, the definition of tax increase, indicates to me that youre stretching a little bit right now. Otherwise, you wouldnt have gone to the dictionary to check on the definition. I mean what
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, no, but
OBAMA: what youre saying is
STEPHANOPOULOS: I wanted to check for myself. But your critics say it is a tax increase.
OBAMA: My critics say everything is a tax increase. My critics say that Im taking over every sector of the economy. You know that. Look, we can have a legitimate debate about whether or not were going to have an individual mandate or not, but
STEPHANOPOULOS: But you reject that its a tax increase?
OBAMA: I absolutely reject that notion.
Roberts ruled that it is a tax. The biggest tax increase on the middle class in history.
Candidate Obama said health care should never be purchased with tax increases on middle class families:
(Excerpt) Read more at floppingaces.net...
Can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.
This guy is a dumbass. Had Robert’s voted to invalidate the entire thing, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
More turd polishing.
Roberts is a big Federal gov’t statist.
Our Forefathers NEVER intended for a hostile government's THEFT of our personal lives. THEY RISKED THEIR LIVES AND CREATED THIS COUNTRY BECAUSE OF BRITISH BULLYING. If the British had forced BritishCare on Americans, this ALONE would've triggered the American Revolution. Roberts failed to consider that the INTENT of this Law violates the INTENT of our Constitution!
Consider the below examples I came up with now totally legitimate under Roberts treasonous decision. This does not even scratch the surface of the congress new powers:
Apple lobbies obama and the congress to force people to buy an ipad as part of an education law or face a tax penalty - legal
Ruger lobbies Romney to force Americans to buy firearms and take self defense classes under anti-Crime law or face a tax - legal
Chevy wants to recoup its losses from the bailout by lobbying congress to force us to buy a volt or face a tax - legal
Solyndra lobbies obama to force americans to buy its solar panels under new Environmental Law or face a tax - legal
NYSC lobbies Romney to force people to buy gym memberships under new Anti-Obesity law or face a tax - legal
Monsanto lobbies Obama to force american to buy tomatos, salads, etc under new Safe Food law or face a tax - legal
Trek lobbies the congress and president to force people to by a mountain bike as part of anti-obesity law or face a tax - legal
Valvoline lobbies president and congress to mandate proof of oil changes in your car every 4,000 miles as part of transportation law or face a tax - legal
American Standard lobbies president and congress to by new toilet bowl w new tech as part of safe water act or face a tax - legal
Johnson and Johnson lobbies congress to force women to use green tampons as part of a environmental law or face a tax, legal
National Assoc. of Realtors lobbies Romney and the Congress as part of a Economic Growth Law to force Homeowners to purchase mandatory home warranty for 5 years - Legal
See where this is going folks? Roberts is a traitor as he almost single handidly made us slaves this week to literally anything these thugs in the congress want to compel us into.
I think a lot of people give Roberts way too much credit. I think that more thought and discussion has been put into interpreting Roberts decision, than Roberts did making it.
Not true, the polls have consistently shown the law is not popular. The poll that really mattered i.e. the 2010 election proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt. Now dungbeetlecare is back as a campaign issue, and in the forefront. The dems will very likely lose the senate and the prez because of it.
As to whether that will mean a damn thing to get the law repealed, well that is truly up in the air. I don't trust Romney to keep his promise at all, but we will see. We will know in January, because Romney can immediately give everyone waivers and has said that he would. If he does not do that the first day, then we will know he has NO intention of repealing the law.
Selfishness has replaced Principle. FDR fomented this mindset with Social Security. The chicken is coming home to roost. If anyone doubts a financial collapse, Obamacare will ENSURE it.
Roberts thinks he’s slick and pulled a fast one. Nope, at least for those whose opinion he cares about.
Ginsburg now knows Roberts is a punk and Thomas knows Roberts is a traitor to the constitution.
Is it just me or does this seem like a coordinated spin campaign?
I think Roberts did us a favor.
It is more not like what he did for us as much as what he did to us. He bent us over a pickle barrel and mounted us like a stallion. You cannot put a high shine on a turd. You can polish and polish and polish and it remains a turd. It smells like a turd. Now Mr. Roberts forces the American people to take a taste, or have your property taken from you and possibly arrange for a little down time at Ft. Levenworth. That is what he did to us.
Is anybody curious as to the media attacks on roberts before the decision rather than on kennedy? Kennedy is usually the question mark but a barrage of negative media was thrown at roberts. Ya think after the first vote with roberts siding 5-4 majority, that obviously it was leaked and then he became the isolated target. Rumors say a vote was again taken in mid-May and that is when roberts switched.
Thereby pointing the way to Constitutional circumvention on limitations of powers. You need no longer try to mandate an action. You just put a punitive tax on nonaction.
It is actually Medieval. You are not compelled to spend 1/3 of your days working on your liege lord's estate. You can opt out by paying half your goods and chattal, and having your comely wife spend a few nights entertaining your lord and master. It's just a tax.
Roberts did not care what the men who put together the Constitution intended. Roberts decided that Obamacare was the direction he was going and tossed everything else. He just violated the Constitution and our freedoms. He is the biggest assault on this country and its laws that have ever attacked it. The man is gutter scum. We should move to have him impeached. “Its a tax”? No, its a penalty!
|GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach|
Thanks Starman417, this is almost a GGG topic, and it would be just like me to make it one. It'll be under "Longer Perspectives" in next weekend's Digest.Pyrrhus was king of the Hellenistic kingdom of Epirus whose costly military successes against Macedonia and Rome gave rise to the phrase' Pyrrhic victory'.The difference is Zero doesn't have the character to admit to reality. Plus, I'm pretty sure Pyrrhus wasn't an asshole.
Once I got over the initial shock of the decision Thursday, it became apparent on further reflection that what Chief Justice Roberts had done was not only very patriotic, but personally one of the most courageous political actions I have witnessed in my more than seventy years, or have read about in my personal study of history.
His action in this case rank with those of our founding fathers, St. Paul’s voyage to Rome, and the signing of the MagnaCarta.
It is my fervent hope that before my ultimate passing, that I will see that this will be recognized, and his rightful place in the history of this country assured!
The bottom line is this. The United States now has a governing body that holds itself to be above the will of the American People, the Constitution and the Rule of Law.
This governing body has declared war on the American People and our independence for all intents and purposes.
The only real question that remains is this: Are we going to allow this current Regime to stand?
On what possible grounds could you interpret this gigantic expansion of federal power as patriotic?
How is the government going to force people with no money buy insurance?
Robert’s first love is history.
I happen to also agree with your thinking on this. ;-)
One of the points the four dissenters made was to complain that the Court did not sufficiently deliberate the legality of Roberts’ tax analysis, in particular under the direct tax clause of the Constitution.
All of the examples you give, as well as the new Roberts Tax under Obamacare, are in fact a direct (or “capitation” tax) combined with a class exemption.
The tax is assessed on everyone for simply existing, for simply breathing in and out, and then there is an exemption for people who do the specified thing (buy an ipad, buy health insurance, etc). Such a tax is known as a direct or capitation tax, in this case with an exemption. Such a tax may only be imposed by Congress if it is apportioned under the census.
I don’t believe under established and proper canons of statutory construction that the government can lawfully assess a capitation tax that is otherwise unconstitutional simply by tacking on an exemption for a portion of the population from the capitation tax based on their behavior. They cannot transform an unlawful capitation tax into a lawful tax simply by attaching a category of exemption.
Roberts was too busy being too clever by half to do a proper legal analysis under the direct tax of the Constitution and the dissent was right to claim that the analysis was rushed out the door without sufficient deliberation.
I’d be interested in reading your explanation for your praise of Robert’s decision.
I was initially shocked and puzzled by Roberts’ decision also, but now wonder if it’s strategy.
This sounds like it was written by some party committee member...Or Communist block captain out of Chicago.
We continually get gang raped by government, then some roll in and tell us it's really love.
If Chief Justice Roberts thought the mandate was OK under the governments taxing power he should have said so and told them to go back and rewrite it as tax law. But no..in a classic case of judicial activism, he rewrote the law himself. In the process he opened the door to unlimited taxes levied as punitive measures or in an attempt to coerce certain behaviors. One example that comes to mind is a “Natural Disaster Insurance”. The federal government spends billions of dollars every year on disaster relief in the wake of fires, floods, earthquakes,hurricaines, tornados, etc. Just think of the money they could save if every property owner was forced to buy “National Disaster Insurance” to cover any damage from such events. If an owner declined to participate in the program, he could simply be punished with a tax disguised as a fine. The insurance companies could even be directed to pay a portion of any claims to the government to help pay for cleanups that aren’t covered by an owners policy. Surely no one could object to such a policy; after all, it is all in the interest of the greater good of all Americans.
This 48-hours-plus old article somehow never got posted to FR. But it was near the top of Drudge's page for a long time.
You’re so right.
If Roberts just would have thrown the thing out as it was based on the commerce clause we wouldn’t have all this turd polishing going on.
I don’t think Roberts is any kind of hero, I think he’s a slacker that didn’t do his job, a man scared to take a stand.
One thing Roberts did was cause me to think the whole notion of a Supreme Court might be a dumb one. The system, as originally envisioned by the founders, might have been a good one. But over and over the SC’s been mis-used by the principles.
There’s some understanding that the people given this prestigious position would be honored and would do their job.
I get fired I don’t do my job.
We’re stuck with Roberts and that gang for Lord knows how long.
A start would be to have these so-called wise pundits STOP giving Roberts pretty names.
He’s a slacker.
Talk about the emperor wearing no clothes.
It’s on us, not those elite political pundits, to tell the emporer he’s naked.
CJR crying out: "Don't taze me Bro'!"
So the government seizing all kinds of new powers is a big victory for conservatism??????????????????????????????????
On what planet????????
We all lost on Thursday.
It’s only going to get worse.
There is NO silver lining here. There is NO victory here.
Yes, we’ve feared the liberal, activist judges & this mess is what we got from ours. While it might be to our benefit to call it a tax, in the near future, I fail to see how it will help in the long run. If he did this to just wake us up & get out the vote, it was a cynical, political move. It would be nice to believe he did us a favor but I just really can’t quite see it yet......
All the boards I’m on I’m arguing with people who don’t get it: the US Congress can now make us buy ******ANYTHING****** and it’s legal as long as they call it a “tax”.
I can’t BELIEVE the arguments I’m getting from “conservatives” who don’t understand how their government now has COMPLETELY LIMITLESS power!
I feel like I’m losing my mind!
Are there only 5 or 6 of us who get it?
The Republic (as most people understand it) is GONE. We are now a neo-feudal society living at the whims of our government.
So what if we win in Nov? In 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 years the libs will be back and they’ll be able to use this ruling to do anything they want. :(
Well the only thing I think that may come of this now is that Obama’s call for a new tax hikes and repeal of the Bush tax cuts is a goner.
Send those morons my list and ask them how those are any different than Roberts’ tax ruling now.
and be so kind as to remind those jerks that the Big Drug Companies were the ones who lobbied the hardest for Obamacare in the first place.
Damn there is so much ammunition that can be used against him
Probably going to be up to the PACS to do it
Yes but people won’t even see them for another year...
obama gets everything he wants. Even the Clintons bow down to him.
I’ve seen some of the same arguments posted here. I want to believe, but I’m not convinced yet.
One thing is for certain, Robert’s decision was unexpected on many levels. I’m still in shock. But I’m still trying to see the “silver lining”. Maybe only time will tell.
Hopefully, I’ll be shocked at the Republican convention when a true conservative wins the nomination and steamrolls through the election with a majority in the House and the Senate.
The government imported tens of millions of foreigners, millions of illegals most of which have zip health insurance..This is not to mention there are now tens of millions of Americans who lost their jobs, heath insurance etc, who will see this as a good thing!
Obama is lobbied to force people to buy ill-fated long-term Treasury Bonds in their 401K’s. Five years later, interest rates go up from 2% to 4% and the bonds lose half their value.
Thank you for asking.
There are several reasons that come to mind, but I will offer a few for starters: 1) by declaring the mandate fines a tax, it makes it far easier for a new executive and a new congress to repeal. When, and it is now whether but when, the Republican party gets a majority, preferably cloture proof, in the senate, and the new President is inaugurated, it only takes a simple majority to totally repeal PPAC. If in the unlikely event that the Dems retain either the Senate majority, or the WH, the House can stall it forever by refusing to fund it.
2) It forces Obama to defend Obamacare AS A TAX, and the Democraps down-ballot to either distance themselves from the issue in order to save their own skins, or to stand with him in defendinding the indefesible and suffering the same fate as he earns.
3) This decision has energized the TEA parties like no other way could. What was the single greatest factor in the landslide of 2010? It was Obamacare’s riling a hornets nest of public sentiment. Further, a vast majority of libertarians (likely including Ron Paul himself), independants, and more than a few democrats will be happy to vote to remove Zero from office, which will also enhance the down ballot a bit.
Chief Justice John Roberts did, indeed act bravely at the peril of his own personal reputation and credibility. For that, he is to be commended, and in the future, hopefully honored.
My only criticism of him is that he voted politically rather than judicially, but his sacrafice of his queen likely enabled a checkmate of Obama and company.
It forces nothing on the lying little bastard commie. He is already lying to the liberal minions and has his staff doing it also. What the pirate Roberts did was follow orders. He cares not a whit that his action further denegrates our Constitution and further endentures millions to the leftist agenda which is to bring about a collpase of the insurnace system and usher in single payer healthcare under the globalist agenda to reduce population. Robrts is a traitorous creep. He even joked about the outrage he has caused, so we know he is amused rather than worried. He works for the globalist agenda.
Add me to your list of people who get it.
Even the election of Romney and the overturning of the Obamacare act will not change the fact that this legitimizes a tax for anything.
The Supreme Court decision must be overturned, as well as the act.
Robert could have called Obamacare a tax but still struck it down as Congress has no authority to tax inactivity.
Instead he just created a massive new power for Congress to abuse and it created it from whole cloth, out of nothing. There is not a single word about this new Congressional power to tax inactivity in the US Constitution, which is why the scum idiot commie libs have never tried to tax inactivity before in our 230 year history.