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Pam Bondi must sue again over Obamacare: SCOTUS rejected punishment tax!
6-30-12 | johnwk

Posted on 06/30/2012 2:50:44 PM PDT by JOHN W K

Justice Roberts` holding that Obamacare`s individual mandate is constitutional as a tax is not only an incoherent stretching of Congress` taxing authority, but defies the very limits of Congress` delegated powers which were carefully enumerated in our Constitution and subjoined to Art. I, § 8, cl.1 by our Founding Fathers ___ Obamacare being absent in the enumeration!

The Roberts ruling is immediately exposed for its absurdity when it is analyzed.

First, let us confirm beyond the shadow of doubt that Congress` taxing powers under imposts, duties, excises and direct taxes, whatever they may be, are limited by other provisions in our Constitution, e.g., the Court in the recent decision United States v. International Business Machines Corp. - 517 U.S. 843 (1996) struck down an excise tax as violating that part of our federal Constitution which declares: "No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State." U. S. Const., Art. I, § 9, cl. 5.

And in EISNER v. MACOMBER , 252 U.S. 189 (1920) [after the Sixteenth Amendment was adopted] the Supreme Court reminded Congress that it was not empowered by the Sixteenth Amendment to tax, as income of a stockholder and without “apportionment“, a stock dividend made lawfully and in good faith, U. S. Const., Art. I, § 2, cl. 3, and, Art. I, § 9, cl. 4.

And so, although Congress has been granted power to lay and collect various kinds of taxes, each kind of tax has limits beyond which Congress may not venture when laying these taxes. Additionally, we must keep in mind that Congress’ taxing powers were granted for specific enumerated functions subjoined to Art. I, § 8, cl.1 (Clauses 2 through 11), and that Justice Roberts acknowledged the individual mandate tax cannot be sustained under Congress’ power to “regulate commerce“, one of Congress‘ enumerated functions subjoined to Art. I, § 8, cl.1, (see clause 3).

And now that it is established that the kinds of taxes Congress may lay and collect have limits beyond which Congress may not venture, and that Congress is likewise bound to laying and collecting taxes for specific enumerated functions listed beneath Art. I, § 8, cl.1, and that the individual mandate tax cannot be sustained under Congress’ power to “regulate commerce” as announced by Justice Roberts, nor has he pointed to any other function subjoined to Art. I, § 8, cl.1 which can sustain the individual mandate tax, we turn to the interesting question asking Roberts, is Congress authorized to lay a tax for the sole purpose of punishing an identifiable group of Citizens which is exactly what the individual mandate tax does?

And in regard to a tax not being a true tax but a punishment, the case Department of Revenue of Montana v. Kurth Ranch, 511 U.S. 767, 114 S.Ct. 1937, 128 L.Ed.2d 767 (1994), is quite instructive because the tax there was found to not be a true tax but a punishment and thus violated the 5th Amendment of our federal Constitution.

Bottom line is, the 26 States which filed suite against the individual mandate must now re-file and argue __ since Justice Roberts has identified the individual mandate as a tax ___ they must now challenge the tax in question as not being within the definition of an impost, duty, or excise as historically used and understood by our founding fathers. And since the individual mandate tax is not apportioned, it violates the command that direct taxes shall be apportioned among the States. The following formula may be considered as our Constitution‘s fair share formula:

State`s pop.
----------------------- X SUM TO BE RAISED = STATE`S SHARE OF TAX
Total U.S. Pop.

In addition, the States must contend the tax goes far beyond the enumerated functions for which Congress may “Lay and collect Taxes” and are specifically listed beneath Art. I, § 8, cl.1, Obamacare not being included in that list of particulars!

And if there is any question as to the limited functions for which Congress may tax under Art. I, § 8, cl.1, let our founding fathers speak for themselves with reference to this provision and especially the phrase “general welfare” which appears in Art. I, § 8, cl.1:

In No. 83 Federalist, which is applicable to the meaning of “general welfare”, Hamilton, in crystal clear language refers to a “specification of particulars”which he goes on to say “evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority“. See Art. I, § 8, clauses 2 through 11, for the subjoined “specification of particulars”.

Hamilton writes:

"...the power of Congress...shall extend to certain enumerated cases. This specification of particulars evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority, because an affirmative grant of special powers would be absurd as well as useless if a general authority was intended..."

And, Madison, in No. 41 Federalist, explaining the meaning of the general welfare clause to gain the approval of the proposed constitution, states the following:

"It has been urged and echoed, that the power "to lay and collect taxes...to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and the general welfare of the United States amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare. No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor [the anti federalists] for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction...But what color can this objection have, when a specification of the object alluded to by these general terms immediately follows, and is not ever separated by a longer pause than a semicolon?...For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power...But the idea of an enumeration of particulars which neither explain nor qualify the general meaning...is an absurdity."

Likewise, in the Virginia ratification Convention Madison explains the general welfare phrase in the following manner so as to gain ratification of the constitution: "the powers of the federal government are enumerated; it can only operate in certain cases; it has legislative powers on defined and limited objects, beyond which it cannot extend its jurisdiction."[3 Elliots 95]

Also see Nicholas, 3 Elliot 443 regarding the general welfare clause, which he pointed out "was united, not to the general power of legislation, but to the particular power of laying and collecting taxes...."

Similarly , George Mason, in the Virginia ratification Convention informs the convention

"The Congress should have power to provide for the general welfare of the Union, I grant. But I wish a clause in the Constitution, with respect to all powers which are not granted, that they are retained by the states. Otherwise the power of providing for the general welfare may be perverted to its destruction.". [3 Elliots 442]

For this very reason the Tenth Amendment was quickly ratified to intentionally put to rest any question whatsoever regarding the general welfare clause as being a general legislative grant of power, and thereby cut off the pretext to allow Congress to extended its powers via the wording provide for the “general welfare“.

And so, although Justice Roberts has sustained the individual mandate as a tax, he has not established which taxing authority [impost, duty, excise or direct tax] is used, nor the function for which the tax is being laid, and if it is laid to fulfill a function within the list of particulars subjoined to Art. I, § 8, cl.1.which enumerate the constitutionally authorized functions for which Congress may tax.

Hopefully Florida’s AG, Pam Bondi, will take the lead and challenge the individual mandate tax for the above stated reasons and have our Constitution‘s clearly defined limitations and protections reaffirmed.

JWK

"If the Constitution was ratified under the belief, sedulously propagated on all sides, that such protection was afforded, would it not now be a fraud upon the whole people to give a different construction to its powers?"___ Justice Story


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; Health/Medicine; Politics
KEYWORDS: bondi; obamacare; scotus; sue

1 posted on 06/30/2012 2:50:53 PM PDT by JOHN W K
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To: JOHN W K

Bump


2 posted on 06/30/2012 2:56:50 PM PDT by Aurorales (I will not be ridiculed into silence)
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To: JOHN W K

IMHO, this is a far better analysis of the tax issue than we saw in the SC decision.

It certainly isn’t an income tax even though it will be administered by the IRS; hence the 16th amendment waiver of apportionment cannot apply) It isn’t an excise tax (and, by the way, the early Congressional rejection of a tax on luxury carriages cited by Roberts would today be implemented as an excise tax and paid by the seller thus making it an indirect tax).

If it is a tax, and I don’t believe it is, it is an unconstitutional direct tax.


3 posted on 06/30/2012 3:10:47 PM PDT by Vesparado (The American people know what they want and they deserve to get it good and hard --- HL Mencken)
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To: JOHN W K
"Otherwise, the power of providing for the general welfare may be perverted to its destruction."

Wow.

4 posted on 06/30/2012 3:12:04 PM PDT by GeorgeWashingtonsGhost
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To: JOHN W K

GO 4 IT!


5 posted on 06/30/2012 3:12:28 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: JOHN W K

By the way, I think you should send your write-up to Ms Bondi.

If another suit is filed we won’t see a result until after the election, I’m afraid. So, the closest even that can have an impact will be the election. However, it pays to have a “Plan B” with this crowd.


6 posted on 06/30/2012 3:14:05 PM PDT by Vesparado (The American people know what they want and they deserve to get it good and hard --- HL Mencken)
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To: JOHN W K

By the way, I think you should send your write-up to Ms Bondi.

If another suit is filed we won’t see a result until after the election, I’m afraid. So, the closest event that can have an impact will be the election. However, it pays to have a “Plan B” with this crowd.


7 posted on 06/30/2012 3:14:39 PM PDT by Vesparado (The American people know what they want and they deserve to get it good and hard --- HL Mencken)
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To: JOHN W K

bump


8 posted on 06/30/2012 3:15:00 PM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: JOHN W K

That is why I never thought it would be upheld, you can’t punish someone with a tax.


9 posted on 06/30/2012 3:30:10 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
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To: fortheDeclaration

The dread pirate, John Roberts, disagrees with you....


10 posted on 06/30/2012 3:37:04 PM PDT by newfreep (Breitbart sent me...)
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To: JOHN W K
Yes...power to tax is to raise revenues to run the government

It is not permissible for the government to use its power to tax and it taxing agencies to harasses, coercive, punish and destroy a citizens for any reason they see fit...we need to get this firmly established

...This is now not about Health Care anymore

The left, when in power, uses the power to tax as a weapon

Consider Obama's statement about coal power plans.."We will not stop you from building them...but we will tax them out of existence"

Consider the harassment of the Tea Party groups by the IRS

The original American revolution was keyed by Parliament using taxes as a coercive force and punishment on the American colonies (look up "Coercive Acts")

If we have to we need a new Constitution Amendment stated that the power granted to tax may NOT BE USE AS A coercive force or punishment on the people

...sometimes you have to spell out the obvious for the stupid like a Roberts

11 posted on 06/30/2012 3:45:34 PM PDT by tophat9000 (American is Barack Oaken)
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To: JOHN W K
Someone help me here. Does this mean that another challenge can be made to Obamacare that the mandate tax is unconstitutional?
12 posted on 06/30/2012 3:50:55 PM PDT by yellowhammer
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To: JOHN W K
Yes...power to tax is to raise revenues to run the government

It is not permissible for the government to use its power to tax and it taxing agencies to coerce, harass, punish or destroy a citizen, state or business for any reason they see fit via that taxing power...we need to get this firmly established

...This is now not about Health Care anymore

The left, when in power, uses the power to tax as a weapon

Consider Obama's statement about coal power plans.."We will not stop you from building them...but we will tax them out of existence"

Consider the harassment of the Tea Party groups by the IRS

The original American revolution was keyed by Parliament using taxes as a coercive force and punishment on the American colonies (look up "Coercive Acts")

If we have to we need a new Constitution Amendment stated that the power granted to tax may NOT BE USE AS A coercive force or punishment on the people

...sometimes you have to spell out the obvious for the stupid like a Roberts

13 posted on 06/30/2012 3:54:00 PM PDT by tophat9000 (American is Barack Oaken)
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To: JOHN W K

Bump


14 posted on 06/30/2012 4:21:29 PM PDT by voicereason (The RNC is the "One-night stand" you wish you could forget.)
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To: yellowhammer

Yes, I read that we(they) have 45 days to appeal directly to the Court and maybe it was a way for roberts to get past the election because something about this doesn’t smell right.Roberts does not seem to want the blood of obamacare on his hands(court).


15 posted on 06/30/2012 4:26:28 PM PDT by DCmarcher-976453
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To: yellowhammer
Someone help me here. Does this mean that another challenge can be made to Obamacare that the mandate tax is unconstitutional?

Not as I read it. Chief Justice Roberts' decision not only held that the mandate is a tax, it held it is a valid tax; the opinion discussed, and rejected, the argument that it is a direct tax which has to be apportioned and the argument that it is an unconstitutional penalty.

16 posted on 06/30/2012 4:26:47 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: Vesparado
I agree and the fact is, “direct taxes” are still required by the Constitution to be apportioned among the States as I documented at the top of the thread. Additionally, since direct taxes are required to be apportioned using the apportionment formula in our Constitution, and the individual mandate tax is not apportioned among the states under the ACA but rather is selectively imposed upon an identifiable group of citizens of the united States, Roberts has yet to establish which constitutionally authorized taxing authority is resorted to.

And what were our founders reasons for requiring direct taxes to be apportioned? Let our founding fathers once again speak for themselves:

Pinckney addressing the S.C. ratification convention with regard to the rule of apportionment says:

“With regard to the general government imposing internal taxes upon us, he contended that it was absolutely necessary they should have such a power: requisitions had been in vain tried every year since the ratification of the old Confederation, and not a single state had paid the quota required of her. The general government could not abuse this power, and favor one state and oppress another, as each state was to be taxed only in proportion to its representation“__ 4 Elliot‘s, S.C., 305-6

Also see: “The proportion of taxes are fixed by the number of inhabitants, and not regulated by the extent of the territory, or fertility of soil” 3 Elliot`s, 243, “Each state will know, from its population, its proportion of any general tax” ___ Mr. George Nicholas, during the ratification debates of our Constitution.

And, Mr. Madison goes on to remark about Congress’s “general power of taxation” that, "they will be limited to fix the proportion of each State, and they must raise it in the most convenient and satisfactory manner to the public." 3 Elliot‘s, 255

And if there is any confusion about the rule of apportionment intentionally designed to cure an evil of democracy, and insure that the people of those states contributing the lion’s share of any general tax laid among the States to fund the federal government are guaranteed a proportional vote in Congress equal to their contribution, Mr. PENDLETON says:

“The apportionment of representation and taxation by the same scale is just; it removes the objection, that, while Virginia paid one sixth part of the expenses of the Union [under the Articles of Confederation], she had no more weight in public counsels than Delaware, which paid but a very small portion” 3 Elliot‘s 41

JWK

The only ones who win under Obama/Roberts’care are thieves and parasites ___ all others pay cash!

17 posted on 06/30/2012 4:26:47 PM PDT by JOHN W K
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To: holdonnow

?ping?


18 posted on 06/30/2012 4:44:22 PM PDT by TornadoAlley3 (Obama is everything Oklahoma is not.)
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To: Lurking Libertarian
I'm hoping Mark Levin will have something good to report on Monday after he has a chance to thoroughly look over the ruling this weekend.
19 posted on 06/30/2012 4:46:16 PM PDT by yellowhammer
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To: Lurking Libertarian

Yes, but it wasn’t appealed to as a tax and so the issue of the 5th amendment was never raised.


20 posted on 06/30/2012 4:54:40 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
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To: JOHN W K
OK folks, here's the problem:

Regardless of penalties or apportionment, the SC has approved taxation as a means of sustaining Obamacare, that's all the room needed to weasel the application.

No one should expect that the majority of those who refuse to buy insurance, and are not covered by the hand full of employers who will continue to provide it, are outside of the 47% who pays no tax today.
(After all, that's a huge percentage of the dem's voter base...frequently more than once per election.)

The same income exemptions that leave them paying nothing and/or collecting a rebate for money they didn't pay into the system will assure that no government will actually charge them a tax for not being insured. The fed's already define them as exempt from taxes!

For now Obamacare is a reality, and it can be supported by new taxes; unless it's repealed, those taxes are going to be redirected to apply to you and me, the non-rich, not overly poor, taxpaying and insurance buying, middle class.

(Sorry, but it's only a mini-rant.)

21 posted on 06/30/2012 4:58:38 PM PDT by norton
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To: JOHN W K
I'm watching Huckabee and this subject came up. Pam Bondi and Cuccinelli both thought it might be a potential area for challenge.
22 posted on 06/30/2012 5:26:03 PM PDT by yellowhammer
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To: JOHN W K
I agree and the fact is, “direct taxes” are still required by the Constitution to be apportioned among the States as I documented at the top of the thread. Additionally, since direct taxes are required to be apportioned using the apportionment formula in our Constitution, and the individual mandate tax is not apportioned among the states under the ACA but rather is selectively imposed upon an identifiable group of citizens of the united States, Roberts has yet to establish which constitutionally authorized taxing authority is resorted to.

Maybe congress can help clarify the Robert's hellcare bill by passing a direct tax of it's own. All person's who don't vote for a Conservative candidate in the upcoming election will be taxed or some such rubbish.

Let the Dems take it to court.
23 posted on 06/30/2012 5:27:59 PM PDT by Electric Graffiti (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their Moonbats)
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To: JOHN W K

sfl


24 posted on 06/30/2012 6:41:48 PM PDT by phockthis (http://www.supremelaw.org/fedzone11/index.htm ...)
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To: JOHN W K
Look I think Roberts sucks...but one fact is he got the pro Obama care side of the court(who would rule and way needed to save it) to rule it is a tax ...

So is this a two part quiz?...

In that, once ALL the SCOTUS agrees it is a tax..

You then can challenge if it is a LEGAL tax under the powers granted under the Constitution?

Did this box it the courts left being able to save Obama care if it is challenge as a LEGAL tax in a 2nt round?

...Remember a tax can not be challenge till it is first levied...is this rulings a poison pill for months from now after the election?

25 posted on 06/30/2012 7:04:59 PM PDT by tophat9000 (American is Barack Oaken)
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To: JOHN W K

John, this a masterful dissection of CJ Roberts’ disastrous and insane ruling. Thank you for posting it. It clearly shows Roberts either misread or ignored the Constitution when rendering his majority opinion.

As was suggested upthread, please consider routing this write-up to Pam Bondi with all due haste. This is the Roberts Rule Killer.


26 posted on 06/30/2012 7:25:53 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier
For those interested in contacting Pam Bondi see http://myfloridalegal.com/contact

Mailing address

Office of Attorney General

State of Florida

The Capitol PL-01

Tallahassee, FL 32399-1050

Telephone numbers

Switchboard:850-414-3300

Citizens Services:850-414-3990

Or see:

http://myfloridalegal.com/contact.nsf/contact?Open&Section=Attorney_General for email

I think Pam needs all the encouragement we can give her!

Regards,

JWK

27 posted on 06/30/2012 7:54:03 PM PDT by JOHN W K
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To: JOHN W K
Because this decision grants the govt the unprecedented ability to tax citizens and businesses for not doing something, a new precedent of huge proportions has become law of the land. Obamacare is thusly a case of first impression (apparently given little thought of its far reaching idiotic ramifications by Roberts, who is not smarter than a 5th grader)

It should be attacked and litigated against from every conceivable position until it has a stake through its heart and Roberts is publicly shown to be a fool.

The thirteenth amendment should also be raised, as we are now coerced to work to pay a tax or be forced to work to pay for insurance. Unlike income tax where we are taxed on the fruits of our labor and investments, we are now able to be taxed for not laboring (minimum income notwithstanding)

Roberts has enslaved all of America...and killed John Galt

28 posted on 06/30/2012 8:33:25 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: JOHN W K

Interesting

While I found Cain’s 999 appealing, there is a roadblock in that sales tax is not really constitutional, and would require a constitutional amendment. As should Obama care


29 posted on 06/30/2012 9:14:41 PM PDT by cookcounty (Kagan and Sotomayor side with Joe Wilson: -------Obama DID lie!)
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To: rolling_stone
The question is, will Pam Bondi and the 26 States file an appeal? See Court Rules, Rule No.44, Rehearing, and the time period is 25 days!

JWK

30 posted on 06/30/2012 9:49:32 PM PDT by JOHN W K
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To: JOHN W K

Bump!


31 posted on 07/01/2012 12:50:42 AM PDT by Hetty_Fauxvert ( "Be Breitbart, baby!")
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To: JOHN W K
bump [bttt!] again (to bring this up for those here who use and review FR using the comments tag, as opposed to using the "articles" tag.
32 posted on 07/01/2012 10:18:16 AM PDT by BlueDragon (He's a stranger in a strange land...)
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To: BlueDragon
BlueDragon,

I see our so-call conservative talking heads on TV working their magic to befuddle and confuse the people, pretending that the Roberts’ opinion sets a "minefield" for our Washington Establishment pinko crowd.

Make no mistake! If the Roberts’ ruling is not appealed, and the assumed mandate’s taxing power exercised under the ruling is not questioned as being unconstitutional and overturned, it will set the stage for Congress to exercise a limitless direct taxing power to enforce whatever whim and fancy Congress may dream up, and it will be used to dwarf the suffering we have experienced for generations under the misapplication of Congress’ power to regulate commerce.

Regardless if Obamacare is actually repealed as proposed and promised by the Republican Party leadership, the Robert’s opinion regarding taxation opens the door to an unbridled direct taxing authority, and the ruling will constantly be pointed to in the future as a valid taxing authority of Congress. This taxing authority must not be allowed to stand!

Hopefully Pam Bondi and the 26 States will appeal the Roberts’ ruling and challenge it on the reasons regarding taxation which I summarized at the top of the thread. If it is not overturned then Representation with proportional financial obligation our founder’s check to deal with democracy, will have met its death and the larger populated states will use their greater representation in Congress to constantly plunder our national treasury. Always keep in mind when talking taxation and representation our Constitution’s fair share formulas:

State`s Pop.
_________ X House membership (435) = State`s No.of Reps
Pop. of U.S.

State`s Pop.
_________ X SUM TO BE RAISED = STATE`S FAIR SHARE
U.S. Pop.

And if there is any question as to why this rule of apportionment was adopted, keep in mind what Mr. PENDLETON stated during the ratification debates of our existing Constitution and with regard to the new rule of apportioning both direct taxes and representatives:

“The apportionment of representation and taxation by the same scale is just; it removes the objection, that, while Virginia paid one sixth part of the expenses of the Union, she had no more weight in public counsels than Delaware, which paid but a very small portion”3 Elliot’s 41 Also see Act laying a direct tax for $3 million in which the rule of apportionment is applied and each State’s Congressional Delegation returned home with a bill in hand for their State’s Governor and Legislature to deal with. And then see Section 7 of direct tax of 1813 allowing states to raise and pay their respective quotas in their own chosen way and be entitled to certain deductions in meeting their payment on time.

JWK

The only ones who win under Obama/Roberts’care are thieves and parasites ___ all others pay cash!

33 posted on 07/01/2012 12:38:52 PM PDT by JOHN W K
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