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Have Environmentalists/EPA Triggered Electric Power Outages To 3 Million Americans?
JoeClarke.Net ^ | 07/03/2012 | JoeClarke.Net

Posted on 07/03/2012 4:53:42 PM PDT by joeclarke

As many people fall down in the sweltering heat, because of the loss of power to air conditioners, there are others jumping up and down, because the excessively hot weather seems be to punishing those naughty Americans, known around the world to use more than their "fair share" of energy. Coupled with the severe storms knocking out power lines, to an environmentalist, it may, indeed, be a perfect storm.

In the past several years, American power generating companies have been diverted from upgrading their existing equipment, including coal generating plants, transmission lines, substations, etc. on the Grid, by the incessant hounding of the EPA, which has redirected power companies away from upgrades and planned maintenance, and toward - anything but coal. The EPA has induced hundreds of billions of dollars of expenses, and plan even more penalties,fines, and taxes. To me, a penalty levied by the federal government is a fine, and is a tax.
Justice Roberts doesn't like "quibbling over labels," but its all the same - mo money demanded by the government. BTW, In the Senate, Energy policy has been creeping into the tax code [Carbon Tax] at an exponential rate" Senator Orrin Hatch, June 12, 2012.

From the East Coast, past Illinois, up to 3 million people have been without electrical power, and so the first suspects to be considered responsible for the catastrophes are, of course, the Environmental Protection Agency and its environmentally ill allies like the Sierra Club, as well as President Obama.

Even at this late date, 2,000,000 citizens are without power, including those within Washington, D.C. Bureaucratic slowdowns happily expected.
Obama promised to "bankrupt coal," and in fact, coal companies have been either closing down in droves, or are in the midst of powering down, thus causing the closure of coal powered electric generating stations, as well as coal mines, while firing thousands of workers. This prophetic notice by the Electrical Worker Online Coal Plant Shutdowns Threaten Blackouts from April of 2012, predicts exactly that - America's electric transmission grid will be overly burdened as coal plants are powered down:

"As utility companies face new deadlines for coal-fired power plants to comply with tight new EPA clean air regulations, many energy suppliers have plans to shutter plants that employ thousands of IBEW members rather than invest in costly upgrades.

If thousands of megawatts are suddenly taken off-line, this could trigger massive electricity shortages, just as demand is expected to increase, according to a regional transmission organization report.

A report from PJM, a regional transmission organization covering 13 states and the District of Columbia, estimates that 18,000 megawatts of electricity will be lost to the power grid due to expected coal plant shutdowns. That's the loss of enough power to light and heat 18 million homes."

It is very difficult to research the direct relationship between this June-July power outage and the powering down/switching/closing of coal fired electric generating plants, because the media is very protective of everything the evironmentalists and Democrats pontificate, and will seldom do stories that give a black eye to the Greens. Even power companies are very beholding and sensitive to the federal government environment czars, and must constantly ingratiate themselves in the presence of Obama's regulatory czars.

Even if the recent power outages are more due to storm/mechanical damage to the electric grid, rather than the
unavailability of backup power due to decommissioning of generating plants, the fact is, that American power companies have been distracted by the EPA and federal government from upgrading the transmission stations and other infrastructure as they are forced to invest capital into ways of transferring from the traditional (and cheap) coal to other sources such as natural gas. Either way, Obama's big rear is still sitting on American energy production. And, don't think they won't be going after natural gas with a vengeance, as they have attacked oil and nuclear through the years.

Here are some alarming charts/graphs of what is planned by the EPA as it robs Americans of its choice to use plentiful coal for energy.
From The Business Insider:

'The Cross-State Air Pollution Rule has received nothing but negative feedback from the affected energy industry, which argues the stricter federal emission law will result in higher costs for electricity and massive loss of U.S. jobs. The plan will also require billions of dollars to retrofit power plants with clean coal technologies.

According to a study prepared by the National Economic Research Associates (NERA), the legislation is among the most expensive EPA rules ever imposed on coal-fueled power plants that will cause electric rates to skyrocket by as much as 23 percent and lead to nationwide employment losses totaling 1.4 million job-years by 2020.

Power-plant closures are expected to increase in the coming months, as utilities complete their cost analyses of complying with the Cross-State rule, according to Industrial Info Resources. The EPA rule has already forced coal facilities in Ohio, North Carolina, Georgia, and Texas to retire old units, rather than bare the expense of installing pollution-control equipment.

The coal industry maintains that the EPA doesn't seem to care about the economic damage new regulations will cause."


From The Institute For Energy Research:

IER Identifies Coal Fired Power Plants Likely to Close as Result of EPA Regulations:


TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: bankruptcoal; climatechange; environmental; epa; globalwarming; globalwarminghoax
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1 posted on 07/03/2012 4:53:56 PM PDT by joeclarke
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To: joeclarke
Have Environmentalists/EPA Triggered Electric Power Outages To 3 Million Americans?

Yes, without a doubt.

2 posted on 07/03/2012 4:58:48 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: joeclarke

We had two power outages in two days here in southern Michigan last week and didn’t even have storms.


3 posted on 07/03/2012 4:59:29 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: joeclarke
From the East Coast, past Illinois, up to 3 million people have been without electrical power, and so the first suspects to be considered responsible for the catastrophes are, of course, the Environmental Protection Agency and its environmentally ill allies like the Sierra Club, as well as President Obama.

Uh, no.

It was a big honkin' derecho. Look up the term and the news before making such an uniformed claim.

There will be brownouts and blackouts because of EPA policy regarding coal plants. This is not one of those.

4 posted on 07/03/2012 5:00:48 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: joeclarke

Er, uninformed claim.


5 posted on 07/03/2012 5:02:24 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Navy Patriot

It was inevitable.
And just what they wanted.


6 posted on 07/03/2012 5:05:32 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: joeclarke
This ain't the EPA:


7 posted on 07/03/2012 5:05:48 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Navy Patriot

Write or call your congressman and ask him to support H.R. 750 (Defending America’s Affordable Energy and Jobs Act). It was introduced by Tim Walberg of Michigan and now has 101 co sponsors but the more the merrier.

If passed it will strip the power to regulate away from the EPA and put it in the hands of congress (and by extension our hands)

Current co sponsors

Rep. Dan Burton [R-IN5] (joined Mar 02, 2011)
Rep. Steven “Steve” Chabot [R-OH1] (joined Mar 02, 2011)
Rep. Louis Gohmert [R-TX1] (joined Mar 02, 2011)
Rep. Jim Jordan [R-OH4] (joined Mar 02, 2011)
Rep. Jean Schmidt [R-OH2] (joined Mar 02, 2011)
Rep. Blake Farenthold [R-TX27] (joined Mar 03, 2011)
Rep. Robert Latta [R-OH5] (joined Mar 08, 2011)
Rep. Bill Huizenga [R-MI2] (joined Mar 09, 2011)
Rep. Michele Bachmann [R-MN6] (joined Mar 10, 2011)
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8 posted on 07/03/2012 5:06:49 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

You be right.


9 posted on 07/03/2012 5:08:48 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: cripplecreek

But of course these thugocracy regulators and their leadership must not be deposed if it means voting to elect Milt Rominy.


10 posted on 07/03/2012 5:09:16 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks; Navy Patriot
Could both of you please bother reading the news about the derecho that hit the region before commenting in such a manner?

This outage cannot be pinned on anything other than nature. I am sure we will see future outages from EPA anti-coal policies. But this was not from such.

11 posted on 07/03/2012 5:11:00 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: cripplecreek

Do you suppose Barry Obama will sign this or that Harry the undertaker Reid will allow it to pass through his senate?


12 posted on 07/03/2012 5:11:10 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: joeclarke
Have Environmentalists/EPA Triggered Electric Power Outages To 3 Million Americans?

It will help feed the anger and hatred of people before the elections just in case it looks like 0bama may lose and needs to order martial law and stifle the 22 amendment to stay in the Oval Office.

13 posted on 07/03/2012 5:11:26 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: joeclarke

The EPA is a treasonous organization and must be abolished. Screw the enviro-wackos.


14 posted on 07/03/2012 5:15:10 PM PDT by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: dirtboy
Could both of you please bother reading the news about the derecho

Oooh scary hispanic word. It must be bad. It doesn't matter how many times you say it, it was still a strong thunderstorm.
15 posted on 07/03/2012 5:15:55 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: cripplecreek

Uh, read up on the event. It was nasty. People died from it.


16 posted on 07/03/2012 5:17:27 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy

Yep, thunderstorms can kill people.


17 posted on 07/03/2012 5:21:46 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: cripplecreek
Just in case you want to read up on the details of this storm (yeah, it's the Wash Post, but it is accurate reporting of the system):

Derecho: Behind Washington, D.C.’s destructive thunderstorm outbreak, June 29, 2012

BTW, derecho is a meterological term.

18 posted on 07/03/2012 5:22:07 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: cripplecreek

Why persist in wallowing in ignorance of this particular event? You’re smarter than that.


19 posted on 07/03/2012 5:23:18 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy

The article concentrates on the power plants shutting down, and I doubt that has exacerbated the fallout from the storms. But, if the EPA has been making grid maintenance difficult, then I’d happily toss some blame their way for the millions still w/o power.


20 posted on 07/03/2012 5:25:52 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: Cyber Liberty

As conservatives, our currency is supposed to be truth. The recent power outages from Illinois to DC were directly caused by bad weather. That is the truth and clearly documented. Trying to attribute them to something else is bad analysis and is a misplaced attack on bad liberal EPA policy.


21 posted on 07/03/2012 5:34:26 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: cripplecreek

Don’t see a single RAT on the list. Could it be they want us to die without electricity?


22 posted on 07/03/2012 5:38:38 PM PDT by anoldafvet
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To: dirtboy

There is a difference between “cause” and “exacerbate,” wouldn’t you agree?

I’m not picking a fight, but I’m trying to understand the phenomena here. I’ve seen bad weather in unexpected places cause all kinds of trouble.


23 posted on 07/03/2012 5:39:09 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: dirtboy

It was a big honkin’ “unexpected” derecho. Central planning fail.


24 posted on 07/03/2012 5:40:14 PM PDT by pingman ("Human history seems logical in afterthought, but a mystery in forethought." (Strauss & Howe))
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To: Cyber Liberty

Believe it was Valerie Jarrett who said “We’ll take it any way we can get it”!. Liberals never seem to care about whether their statements are rational or true. Turn about is fair play.


25 posted on 07/03/2012 5:41:17 PM PDT by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
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To: dirtboy

I’m sure the environmentalists and EPA have made sure the grid was maintained, upgraded, supplemented, added redundancy, and trees were properly trimmed over the last forty years, based on predicted population and economic growth, and have never obstructed any of the preparations for the surety of such a natural disaster.


26 posted on 07/03/2012 5:41:47 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Cyber Liberty
There is a difference between “cause” and “exacerbate,” wouldn’t you agree?

In this case, no.

I have provided links on this thread for you to read up on this weather event.

I am not sure how EPA-mandated cutbacks on coal power plants would impact someone whose power line to his house is lying on his front yard from a tree falling on it. Maybe you would be kind enough to elaborate on your theory in that regard.

27 posted on 07/03/2012 5:42:55 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Cyber Liberty
...if the EPA has been making grid maintenance difficult, then I’d happily toss some blame their way...

Sadly there is no "if".

28 posted on 07/03/2012 5:45:16 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot
I’m sure the environmentalists and EPA have made sure the grid was maintained, upgraded, supplemented, added redundancy, and trees were properly trimmed over the last forty years, based on predicted population and economic growth, and have never obstructed any of the preparations for the surety of such a natural disaster.

Except that is not the premise of this post.

Gawd, are you such a juvenile that you cannot face the basic fact that this was a major severe, sudden and unexpected weather event and that alone is sufficient to explain the outages?

29 posted on 07/03/2012 5:45:19 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy

Glad to see a “truth detector” on here.

There’s plenty of reasons to trash the Baraqqis.

The power outages due to this storm aren’t one of them.


30 posted on 07/03/2012 5:46:00 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: pingman
It was a big honkin’ “unexpected” derecho. Central planning fail.

How was this a central planning fail?

Do you even know what a derecho is? Have you even bothered to inform yourself what happened last week in the affected regions? Conservatives are supposed to craft informed opinions. Attributing this event to anything other than nature is not informed.

Oh, and BTW, I an a leading critic on FR of anti-fracking and anti-coal propaganda. And of DC bureaucrats. But I also believe in attacking liberal agendas where it is relevant. This is not such a case.

31 posted on 07/03/2012 5:49:27 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: nascarnation

Thanks. Conservatives should take a minute to gather the facts. I am sure we will see regional brownouts and blackouts from Obama’s EPA anti-coal policies. But a blackout due to downed power lines from severe weather has nothing to do with EPA anti-coal policies.


32 posted on 07/03/2012 5:55:41 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy
...and that alone is sufficient to explain...

I'm not in the business of controlling the information and language so that Marxist Rats and bureauRats can "explain" why they're not at fault.

That be the MSM arm of the Demorat party.

33 posted on 07/03/2012 5:57:00 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot
I'm not in the business of controlling the information and language so that Marxist Rats and bureauRats can "explain" why they're not at fault.

You should be in the business of making sure your opinions fit the basic facts on the ground. Otherwise, you are no better than the rats who twist the facts to suit their agenda.

34 posted on 07/03/2012 5:58:51 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy

I’m often reluctant to send friends/acquaintances to FR because so many factual errors go unquestioned.


35 posted on 07/03/2012 6:00:38 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: dirtboy

Do you know what the “grid” is? It’s basically power lines going to peoples’ houses. Specifically, it’s the part between the power stations and the neighborhood substations.

I already said I don’t think EPA cracking down on power plants caused or even exacerbated this mess. I don’t give a rat’s patootie about that here, it’s a discussion for another thread. But, if the EPA has been causing problems in maintenance of the *grid* (The lines eventually leading to peoples’ homes), then I blame them NOT for causing this (God did that), but for *making it worse.*

You can fix the lines laying in the yards all you want, but if the 65KV and 130KV lines are in ruins, they still don’t have any juice. We are seeing *massive* outages, which leads many to believe this is much more serious than power lines laying in yards under trees. You know, you get a lot of those when you get supercells full of tornadoes. Your weather event is not that unique.


36 posted on 07/03/2012 6:01:38 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: dirtboy
I reiterate: I don’t think EPA cracking down on power plants caused or even exacerbated this mess.
37 posted on 07/03/2012 6:04:17 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: Cyber Liberty
We are seeing *massive* outages, which leads many to believe this is much more serious than power lines laying in yards under trees. You know, you get a lot of those when you get supercells full of tornadoes. Your weather event is not that unique.

Well, if you bother reading up on this event, it is pretty much solely caused by high winds toppling trees and limbs that take out power lines.

People who have pretty trees in their front yards often resist having those trees severely pruned to prevent such damage. And trees are funny critters - they grow in abject disregard to the need for reliable power delivery.

Seriously, you have given no indication that you have bothered to read up on the specifics of this weather event. I expect better from you.

38 posted on 07/03/2012 6:06:19 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy

Sorry to raise your hackles, but my intention was to convey that man cannot plan society for every eventuality. To pretend to do so it sheer hubris. And yes, I not only know what a derecho is, I can pronounce it correctly as well.


39 posted on 07/03/2012 6:08:21 PM PDT by pingman ("Human history seems logical in afterthought, but a mystery in forethought." (Strauss & Howe))
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To: Cyber Liberty

Do you even have a clue about how massive trees in East Coast suburbs are like a Sword of Damocles over neighborood power lines?


40 posted on 07/03/2012 6:08:21 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: pingman
Sorry to raise your hackles, but my intention was to convey that man cannot plan society for every eventuality.

Do you realize that this blog post was trying to blame human idiocy - namely EPA anti-coal policies - for a weather-caused outage?

41 posted on 07/03/2012 6:10:28 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy

Knock it off.

Stating people who don’t agree with you 100% are ignorant of the facts is a logical fallacy. I’ve *studied* these phenomena for decades. To me the links provided (and read by me) were juvenile. I was hoping you could enlighten me about this particular one. I expected better from you, because I’ve “known” you for *years* on FR, and I thought you knew me better as well.


42 posted on 07/03/2012 6:13:00 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: joeclarke

When did AC become a necessity of living? It was non existent at one time and people lived comfortably. Why do they die from a lack of it now?


43 posted on 07/03/2012 6:15:24 PM PDT by Figment
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To: Cyber Liberty
Do you live on the East Coast? Have you seen what the trees we have here can wreak in a bad storm, be it thunderstorm or ice?

I have, and I have lived it. So I won't knock it off. You are clutching at straws here.

44 posted on 07/03/2012 6:16:03 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy

Yes I do. That’s why you won’t see an overhead residential line in my city (in the West). We don’t care about trees, because we bury the lines.

Chopping down the pretty trees is not the only long term solution to the picture you accurately portray.


45 posted on 07/03/2012 6:16:54 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: Figment
When did AC become a necessity of living? It was non existent at one time and people lived comfortably. Why do they die from a lack of it now?

Well, the persons who are now 95 years old and completely dependent upon modern technology to stay alive would not have lived that long back then.

46 posted on 07/03/2012 6:17:52 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Cyber Liberty
Yes I do. That’s why you won’t see an overhead residential line in my city (in the West). We don’t care about trees, because we bury the lines.

And does your Western suburb deal with decades-old infrastructure that is already above ground?

47 posted on 07/03/2012 6:19:29 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy

I have lived in the East. Stop thinking you are so damned special because you had a hurricane-sized patch of bad weather, which killed a lot of people. Do you think the people who live in hurricane ravaged areas have had it too easy or something, special guy?

You are starting to piss me off, and I came into this thread on your side.


48 posted on 07/03/2012 6:19:58 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: dirtboy
And does your Western suburb deal with decades-old infrastructure that is already above ground?

I guess he term "retrofit" has no purchase outside of Western suburbs.

49 posted on 07/03/2012 6:21:37 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: Cyber Liberty

Answer my post 47. It gets to the root of the issue. The costs of taking decades, if not century-plus infrastructure, and adapting it. Be it water lines, sewers, power lines and bridges.


50 posted on 07/03/2012 6:23:25 PM PDT by dirtboy
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