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Should Arizona secede?
Tenth Amendment Network ^ | 7/9/2012 | Marc Gindin

Posted on 07/09/2012 8:18:24 AM PDT by TenthAmendmentNetwork

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To: ilovesarah2012

“Independents can move to Canada.”

####

“Independents”???

Since they have no grounding, bedrock principles on ANY issue, and we can’t even define what they are are, they might just evaporate into thin air.....


51 posted on 07/09/2012 9:07:15 AM PDT by EyeGuy (Armed, judgmental, fiscally responsible heterosexual.)
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To: MNDude
There are truly massive waterworks throughout the nation, many of them on large rivers ~ both civilian and military.

You need to deduct those costs to come up with what part of what gets handled at all by a state.

52 posted on 07/09/2012 9:08:44 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: cripplecreek

I’m SO glad, Hispanic criminals find my Missouri so unattractive. Heck even Michigan’s Upper Penisula has a higher percentage of Illegals.


53 posted on 07/09/2012 9:09:53 AM PDT by EyeGuy (Armed, judgmental, fiscally responsible heterosexual.)
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To: moonshot925

Interesting reference.

However, let’s say a state (oh, let’s say California) decides to give away various ‘rights’ to illegal aliens, and thereby bankrupts itself. To make good on all the Gov’t largess it has promised it’s citizens (legal and illegal) it must recieve huge “dontations” from other states.

Realizing that financial responsibilty is a fool’s game; other states soon decide to grant themselves obscene ‘rights’ at the expense of the other states. For argument’s sake, let’s pretend these states are along the Eastern seaboard and Michigan.

Now, a few states have effectively created a case of indentured servitude (slavery) for every other state - and since no state can succeed; there only recorse is a violent and bloody revolution.

The seeds have been sown, and the Libtards are using ample fertilizer to reap a crop that no one wants.


54 posted on 07/09/2012 9:30:39 AM PDT by Hodar (A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame somebody else.- Burroughs)
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To: Arkansas Toothpick

Was not the constituion originally ratified, only on the condition that - as demanded by many states - they be able to secede from the union if it “became destructive of these ends?” (protecting our right)


55 posted on 07/09/2012 9:50:48 AM PDT by cld51860 (Oderint dum metuant)
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To: TenthAmendmentNetwork
Yes, I hope Arizona does succeed?
56 posted on 07/09/2012 9:56:13 AM PDT by ▀udda▀udd (>> F U B O << "What the hell kind of country is this if I can only hate a man if he's white?")
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To: Jane Long

If the ctizens of the State didn’t have to pay FIT they could better afford to pay more for their own services without the federal government’s mandates and redistribution.


57 posted on 07/09/2012 10:00:30 AM PDT by Rusty0604
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To: napscoordinator

Lots of states could survive. Secession would also include NOT sending money to the fed gov.


58 posted on 07/09/2012 10:20:42 AM PDT by Quickgun (Second Amendment. The only one you can put your hands on.)
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To: cripplecreek

If AZ chooses to do this, we will have to talk to Perry. maybe AZ wouldn’t have to be alone.


59 posted on 07/09/2012 10:22:35 AM PDT by Quickgun (Second Amendment. The only one you can put your hands on.)
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To: moonshot925
Secession is illegal and treasonous.

OF COURSE secession is illegal. You secede when you believe the sovereign power has gone outside of its authority to govern. No sovereign is going to allow secession to be a legal act.

60 posted on 07/09/2012 10:24:10 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: Nowhere Man

NO, I’m not willing to partner up with the likes of California, Oregon, Washington DC, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Ohio, New York et al......we don’t need these ‘citizens’.....


61 posted on 07/09/2012 10:25:07 AM PDT by Gaffer (NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: moonshot925

Anyone can claim anything is illegal and treasonous. If the state govt. decide to do so, then it will be up to the people to decide.


62 posted on 07/09/2012 10:25:57 AM PDT by Quickgun (Second Amendment. The only one you can put your hands on.)
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To: Ohioan

Very interesting approach.

Arizona can (rightfully) claim that it is being invaded and can Constitutionally engage in war.

Governor Brewer could suspend Federal court findings. Could require border agents to fight back.


63 posted on 07/09/2012 10:32:11 AM PDT by kidd
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To: TenthAmendmentNetwork

This “parent/child” nonsense is the issue. The Feds originally were intended as the servants of the interests of the States. Hence the “privilege” of statehood.

The latter 20th century has got it all backward....and the Federal Deficit is a guauge or measure of just how backward that really is!!


64 posted on 07/09/2012 10:36:26 AM PDT by mo (If you understand, no explanation is needed. If you don't understand, no explanation is possible.)
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To: moonshot925

Putting it another way: remember that your Founding Fathers broke the law when they seceded from Britain.

Secession is always, always going to be against the law. The question must not be “is it legal to secede?” but “is it right and necessary to secede?”. That is the question your Founding Fathers asked themselves.

The States must insist upon their sovereign status, and the days of “these United States” must return. Otherwise the US will become a top-heavy Soviet.


65 posted on 07/09/2012 10:36:26 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: agere_contra

And even some of the Soviet states had the courage to revolt.


66 posted on 07/09/2012 10:41:58 AM PDT by Quickgun (Second Amendment. The only one you can put your hands on.)
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To: Ratman83
When the federal government fails to provide this protection the states should sue for breach of contract and then secede from the union. The feds would have no ground to stand on in relation to the secession because they did not meet the requirements of the contract

Which is exactly right, and why all of this is happening.

The federal government was given specific mandates in their compact with the States. They cannot have it both ways: sole responsibility for a task, but abdicating their duty to perform that task.

It's a breach of contract.

Lincoln fabricated the whole "you can't get out of the contract" argument to legitimize his slaughter of Southern white males. But if we are all going to be held to it, then by God hold them to it.

The current federal government is engaging in behavior that is prohibited to even the lowliest police recruit: malfeasance. Worse, they are using force to prevent anyone from correcting that malfeasance.

Thus the "federal government" - people who swore an oath to uphold laws - is deligitimzed.

The States have every right at this point in history to shut down the existing federal union and re-negotiate (or not) the compact between themselves.

67 posted on 07/09/2012 10:42:07 AM PDT by Regulator
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To: Regulator

Yes, the Governors and State Legislatures need to make the feds do the job or end the feds.


68 posted on 07/09/2012 10:51:34 AM PDT by Ratman83
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To: Ohioan

You seem to be right bout the exception. They ARE being invaded.


69 posted on 07/09/2012 11:24:13 AM PDT by PghBaldy (I eagerly await the next news about the struggles of Elizabeth Sacheen Littlefeather Warren.)
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To: moonshot925
Sucecession is illegal and treasonous. Texas v. White (1869)

Tell that to the Framers.

70 posted on 07/09/2012 1:46:29 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: EyeGuy; Gaffer

Yeah, I’m through with most leftists, they are the most vile and mean creatures on the face of the Earth and would sell their own mother to screw America. Well, if all 50 should secede, we could shove all the libs in the Obama’s remaining 7 States. Seriously, we could give them the corridor from Boston to DC and east of the Appalachians and we keep the rest. Better yet, ship them to Europe. I’m to the point where I refuse to break bread with them.


71 posted on 07/09/2012 6:09:41 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (June 28th, 2012, the Day America Jumped The Shark.)
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To: Ohioan

Arizona does not have a state militia. There was an attempt to form one during the last legislative session, and it was cruising to an easy victory, but it was torpedoed at the last minute by the Speaker of the House, who refused to bring it up for a vote. Now that SCOTUS has torpedoed most of Senate Bill 1070 and Obama’s immigration department has refused to abide by the rest of it, there will be even more pressure to pass the militia bill. More information is here: http://azsdf.org/

There is a ballot measure in the works that allows state voters to reject federal actions. Signatures are still being counted. I would call this a guaranteed victory if it shows up on the ballot in November. We have had enough of the feds screwing around with our state. More information is here: http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Arizona_Federal_Action_Rejection_Initiative_(2012)


72 posted on 07/09/2012 6:19:17 PM PDT by Tarantulas ( Illegal immigration - the trojan horse that's treated like a sacred cow)
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To: ModelBreaker

My state of Wisconsin was a territory of the United States before it became a state in 1848. Why in the world would the United States create a separate “sovereign” state if it knew that state/country could legally secede any time it felt like it?


73 posted on 07/10/2012 7:03:26 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: muawiyah

How am I changing the subject? I’ve read the 10th amendment. Where does it say states can secede from the union? The states are sovereign only in the respect that the rights not specifically enumerated for the federal government are reserved for the states. That in no way means states are sovereign countries.


74 posted on 07/10/2012 7:09:08 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: cld51860
"secede"

Show us the section of the constitution that specifically provides for the right of the states to secede.

75 posted on 07/10/2012 7:11:17 AM PDT by driftless2
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