Skip to comments.Martial Law Questions Arise As Marines Create Law Enforcement Battalions
Posted on 07/22/2012 9:34:04 PM PDT by RichSrEdited on 07/22/2012 10:03:07 PM PDT by Sidebar Moderator. [history]
CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. (AP) -- The Marine Corps has created its first law enforcement battalions - a lean, specialized force of military police officers that it hopes can quickly deploy worldwide to help investigate crimes from terrorism to drug trafficking and train fledgling security forces in allied nations.
(Excerpt) Read more at nowtheendbegins.com ...
Reads to me that we are training the troops today to police for the U.N. tomorrow.
I am no longer worried about the Federal Government. I am scared $hitless of it.
The Marines are a Naval Force under Admiralty Law, and not subject to Posse Commitatus. We trained to suppress domestic riots all during the Vietnam war.
That was my first impression. The 'progressives' are and have been fully intent in putting America under the rule of the UN - which means OUR military would be commandeered and led by the UN and the UN could send UN Troops into the US to police us =
NO MORE SOVEREIGNTY. That is the goal. They have been working on this for decades.
They are now closer to their goals than ever before. They are panicked at losing power this election.
From now to election, we live in ever worsening danger. And if we beat them - from Nov to Jan 20th will be even worse.
WE need to pray we can get to Jan 20th with enough left of America to save it.
What Good Can a Handgun Do Against An Army?
anyone else having trouble opening the link?
As soon as the page loads - it “APPCRASHES” =
Gov’t watchdogs/scrubbers at work?
No offense to our highly competent Marine force, but if this country explodes in chaos there aren’t nearly enough of them to maintain control. You could drop a million troops around this country and you’d barely know they were there. There are simply severe logistical constraints to effective control in a country this size.
Late night reading?
And we may have to do more than that. God will help us if we try to help ourselves.
We may have to take a page out of “occupies” book
Dangit, ye beat me to it, but not by much...
These are not logistical dummies.
Seize control of gasoline production and distribution.
Seize control of major bridges.
Seize control of power distribution.
Seize control of transportation.
Seize control of communications.
Seize control of food production, storage and distribution.
Seize control of waterways, distribution and treatment of water.
Seize control of medical facilities.
Seize control of major urban areas by containment and establishment of overlooks at all interchanges and major intersections.
It will not be only Marines. They will have support from other branches and from LEO. Every Federal agency has armed SWAT teams. Many States have similar armed groups in select agencies.
To these ends, they already have the ability to shut down or curtail and control all of our national transportation infrastructure. Drones provide the intelligence they need. The drones can be armed and can communicate with ground forces. They can shut down much of the internet and cell service and with it, much of our communication ability and commerce. The rest follows from there.
They will not care if the urban areas explode, as long as they are contained. Some of the inner suburbs will be included in any cordon. They can allow the residents to eliminate each other and go in later to clean things up.
They can bring in those regional LEO teams to mop up the exurban and rural areas, which would be paralyzed anyway with no diesel, censored communications, limited power and limited water. Military takes over food production, storage and distribution and we are effectively controlled. There are already detailed plans in place in the rural areas designed to effect quarantines. There are already checkpoints all over the rural areas to control transport of firewood between counties and, in some instances, between townships. TSA VIPR teams would assist.
My fear is that it would take them less than a week. Everything is already centralized to the point where a few forces can have a large national effect. Sure, there could well be organized resistance. We already know that many such groups and individuals have been identified. Since they will also be the ones in motion, eradicating them will only take some more time. Individuals not yet identified will self-identify just by not being compliant.
After 9/11, they shut down air transport. If there is more than one incident on a bridge, they will shut down all bridges. If there are incidents on the highways, they will shut those down. This is the SOP and they will keep applying it until they do have total control.
We used to say that an armed America precluded a fascist takeover. We still have our guns and we also have a fascist takeover. I have few illusions about either our military commanders or most LEO. They can lose individuals and they still have force multipliers, many of which, like drones, have been disseminated to LEO.
Again, these forces are far from ignorant. If they are making the training public, they are confident they can complete the mission.
I think you seriously overestimate our govt’s ability to do such a thing. Yes they have plans, but plans and real world logistics are two different things. We’ve had localized disasters like Katrina and the response has been pathetic.
We have very very few combat forces like the Marines and the 10th to do serious warfare. Federal forces are SWAT trained and not ready for an organized counteroffensive not in a contained killzone. What you envision would require forces to be spread out so thin that the armed population would overwhelm them. Not to mention the supply logistics would be a nightmare. Drones, even armed ones have limitations and real actual air support would be kept to very high priority situations.
There are also the governors. If the states don’t play ball, it’s over. Citizen defense groups will be counterorganized and implemented. A couple of dozen federale rambo wannabes traveling down a road won’t have a prayer.
Not to mention that shutting down the country means that the govt has no revenue. They can print all the money they want, it doesn’t matter if no one will take it or there’s nothing to buy with it. Sure you can seize assets but troops are only going to stay so long without pay, particularly if their families are starving.
The only truly dangerous situation would be a bank run. That could shut it all down near instantly. If that happens people will starve, then maybe after that the govt would have more ability to control.
Lets see now. They can’t subjegate a bunch of illiterate 7th century barbarians with IQ of a brick but they are going to lock down 100 million well educated Americans armed with sophisticated weapons and the know how to create IED’s and other nasty explosive surprises that make the Taliban look like amateurs. I don’t think so.
Three battalions, 1,500 Marines total for martial law? No way. Couldn’t hold a medium sized town much less this entire country.
IMO, you are confusing the religious mania of the Taliban for an ability to win over dominant military forces within a milieu consisting of the same religious maniacs.
Look around. Unless you live in a military base town, just what percentage of the local US population would put up a fight to the death against overwhelming odds?
Sure, we have retired military w/demolition and tactical experience plus some armament. Just like the Taliban, they can be taken out (or their families), w/targeted drone strikes. Do Americans accept losing limbs and senses? Who will control the medical facilities in the event of a rebellion?
How many .50cal machine guns & ammo does your community have? If jamming is employed, can the rebels still communicate effectively? If our side takes out a bridge, who is hurt the most: local population or those with other means for crossing water? IED detection has become quite sophisticated and IED emplacement works both ways. Which side has the most effective access to surveillance, detection? NVD is expensive and not that widely available, for example. Who gets to and holds the high points first and for the longest time?
A battalion is 300-1000 troops. I would guess my local area, which is high in retired military and hunters could field roughly the same number as one battalion. Next question is for how long? What is the effect on the rebels of taking out the leadership or on the non-combatants of losing their family members? How many average Americans can deal with killing another person, rather than a deer?
I know a couple of former Special Forces. Privately, they do not think a homegrown rebellion could do more than make subjugation a bit more expensive and time consuming.
Don’t forget that we also have at least 20% of the population in favor of socialism. Can we identify them all? Can we prevent them from betrayal? We probably have another 20% who don’t care and who will do whatever pays them the most, including supporting tyranny.
Now, I do hope you are right. But I also think we will be fighting people with no compunction against collateral damage and whose ROE will be more lethal than the ones in place in the Stans. These people will also have logistic, legal and political means available to them. So, we hold out for awhile and cost them something and the next Spring they overspray our fields w/some herbicide while distributing food in their internment camps.
I’m not saying do nothing, but I have few illusions. Maybe I’m just too old.
As I said to GeorgiaGirl2, I pray you are correct.
If they could shut the country down w/a bank run, but not by interdiction, why would they be concentrating on physical means?
Do you really believe they wouldn’t arrest and imprison the Governors, if necessary, or worse? In WI, AZ and FL, they would have the support of at least 30% of the civilian population.
Natural disaster response isn’t the same as tight centralized control over commodities, transport and infrastructure. We are talking here about people who have openly said they want total power and control and that the population needs to be reduced. After saying this, writing EOs, passing horrid laws and even worse regulations, zer0 still has 49%-50% who somewhat approve of his administration.
I do not think a rebel force would be superior in organization or have even equal strength in arms. Logistics? Cargo air and parachute drops beat local roads, especially with checkpoints, aerial surveillance and control of manufacturing. The Feds and the States have caches already positioned. Do the same, be detected and you are imprisoned or perhaps killed in the process.
I think our rulers have commodities of all sorts and would sell US land assets and mineral rights to foreigners in a nanosecond. I think it would be like Syria writ large and not one other nation would help us. In fact, they would line up to be paid off to help destroy us. Guarantee a military force food and medicine for themselves and their dependents and they will take that in lieu of pay, if necessary.
A couple of dozen federale wanna-be rambos?? Against how many well-trained, supplied and supported rebels? Probably the same number, less training, less well-fed and less supported. Are the rebels going to occupy and hold territory against aerial assets or WMD? Limited is one thing. A monopoly on the high ground is another. What sorts of perimeters could a rebel force maintain, for how long, against what opposition?
Our plans will be toast as soon as the first shot is fired, just like theirs. I also think all of us have watched too many David & Goliath-type movies. I would expect more AWOL forces to go rogue and fight in their own behalf to set up warlord enclaves than to join the rebels. And I am certain the gangs would be in it for themselves and not care at all about civilians. They would be federal or state mercs, if necessary, while plotting to take over themselves.
Like civil disobedience, a lot of the suppositions put forth are predicated on an enemy with some degree of compassion, subject to population approval and obeying civilian law as we have known it. This lot would change the laws, as they already have. They have a loyal civilian following and have already demonstrated a lack of compassion.
If it happens (and I hope it doesn’t), there will be a lot of blood spilled and we will still lose. I think it will end up as a dictatorship for at least one generation. Yes, we can wage asymmetric war forever, but that isn’t the same as regaining freedom and liberty.
Again, I pray it doesn’t come to this and if it does,that you are right.
The problem you got is a CONUS with a landmass so large containing a population with as many as a half billion guns or more within it’s borders. The reality is that the critical infrastructure of this country is so spread it that you would have to spread forces down to the dozens to protect it all, leaving them in a very realistic Mogadishu scenario in many locales.
About the only plausible scenario is grabbing refineries, as they are so few and control a very valuable resource. Food and materials are actually very widely dispersed though the CONUS. Same with bridges and other infrastructure. Getting those all secured would require greater logistics than the feds could possibly muster, assuming states would even allow it.
States alone have national guards and LEO’s and the ability to organize armed citizens into militias, as opposed to 90% of the deployed federal forces having nothing but SWAT style training, while at the same time it being them, not us that has to take territory. Even special ops units like SEALs, Pararescue and Delta Force aren’t trained to take swaths of territory and hold it. You basically have Berets, Rangers, Marines, and some Army divisions like the 10th designed for that. They would be the ones needing to occupy unfamiliar territory that we already live in, a daunting task in any military situation.
Even air support and drones have their limits. We only have so many of them and so many square miles. The entire CONUS erupting in chaos would stretch them thin. Supply would be a nightmare and much convoyed or parachuted would be hijacked and taken. Then there’s confiscation of weapons and equipment that would neutralize the superior military advantage quickly.
Attrition would ultimately get the federal forces as one or two would be lost in each town, each confrontation, and not many miles covered before you ran out. Not saying they can’t make some serious moves, but ultimately there just simply aren’t enough properly trained to really, truly take control of the entire CONUS to the point where they could dictate terms unconditionally.
I take your points. IMO, all they need to do is control a few commodities and a few key bridges, intersections, highways. In my area, there are power transmission lines that, if cut, would do more wide spread damage than controlling the power stations. Control of 2-3 bridges would cut us off on the West. East of us would be government-controlled extremely statist areas. There might be 3 months supply of processed food within 50 miles of 100k people. No power equals no gas pumped unless you use a generator or heavy equipment w/PTO capabilities. A lot depends on the time of year, due to weather or harvest or the drain on various supplies.
While some states would defy the Feds, some in the NE and NW would not. In some states, the major cities would accede to the government, while the rural areas might or might not. My rural area, for example, keeps adding urban liberals. They will soon be over 30% of our population. The social workers in the cities keep sending families here by telling them it is safer for their kids and our benefits are higher. About 10% of our population are already on benefits and perhaps 40% are children or elderly. That leaves about 6k-7k in the county who _might_ fight and who might be capable of doing so. It is hilly, wooded land where it isn’t farmed, so they might have a decent chance, for awhile.
The likelihood of a coordinated nationwide uprising is slim. Most people will be cowed and will use their arms and stores to defend themselves while they shelter in place. The major highways can be closed. There are traffic gates (not sure if that is what they are called) already in place in highly populated areas that can determine the direction of travel and both lanes can be blocked remotely, if necessary. Exits and entrances can be controlled w/few personnel and not all by Feds. Processed food stores, while distributed, need transport. Those huge underground warehouses in former caves/mines are actually not that distributed and they account for maybe 25%-30% of the stores. Fresh food would become in short supply and would go back to being seasonal by locale.
All those guns are not evenly distributed. Some folks have many, some have one, some have none. Not all shooters are trained or equal in skill. Not everyone reloads and eventually stored ammo is used. While there are many with powder, lead, brass and primers, eventually, they need re-supply, too. Killing humans is learned. If it wasn’t, there would be no PTSD. I have known LEO who sat and cried the first time they killed someone. I know few teenagers who have the discipline to competently patrol or guard, let alone actually be effective in a firefight. Gangs and thugs would have the advantage.
As for dismissing the SF, the people I know with this training will usually tell you that basically, they have criminal tendencies they have sublimated into their service. The military considers these people to be weapons.
The retired ones would be on our side and an asset, but their brothers still under contract are just as dangerous. Also, how many of the former trained SF or regular military are now disabled, too old, too slow, too long out of practice or just spent their time in service doing rear echelon work?
If I was going to drop supplies, I would first infiltrate humans to guard the drop zone. If I was going to convoy supplies, I would first send out surveillance, then secure and clear the way. I would utilize my assets as efficiently as possible. Some attrition might take place, but probably less and less as time goes on and the trained coordinated forces choked off the raiders.
Yes, we are a big country, but any Federal forces could secure and contain the megalopolis areas. Is there a difference between SWAT training and urban assault? They might elect to let the cities burn out first while the gangs took each other down. Most of the rural areas would secure themselves by denying entrance. Some might stay independent, for a time. But, by definition, they would be isolated, especially if communication, transport and power were centrally controlled.
Still, lots of pain and bloodshed would ensue on all sides. Enmities after the first CW lasted a long time and some still exists today. Division would last a long time. Within 6 months, morale would be very low on the rebel side. There were partisans in all the Eastern European countries and the countries were still enslaved. What happens, historically, is the putsch comes in force at 3:00 am. Areas are surrounded and under control in a very short time.
How did that go down in Yugoslavia? Normal, modern cities and towns became war zones overnight.
I hope it doesn’t happen.
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