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Body armor was the red flag
Flopping Aces ^ | 07-23-12 | DrJohn

Posted on 07/23/2012 1:22:58 PM PDT by Starman417

It has occurred to me that once again that the left is engaged in another one of its knee-jerk reactions to a horrific event. In the wake of the Aurora shootings, democrats are calling for more gun control.

Below are just a few examples of the Left’s continuing practice of exploiting mass murder to promote their agenda for eliminating gun ownership. As usual, before the families can even recover the bodies of their dead relatives, the Left starts exploiting the situation in their never-ceasing attempt to circumvent the 2nd Amendment via more restrictive gun control laws, .

Only a few hours after a gunman killed 12 people and injured dozens at an Aurora, Colorado midnight premier of the new Batman movie, The Dark Knight Rises, CNN started banging the drums for stronger gun laws .

CNN reported that the slimy opportunist, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, ever the dishonorable, limelight seeking politician was on a New York radio station earlier today using the Colorado shootings to call for tighter gun control laws.

Mayor Michael Nutter of Philadelphia appeared on CNN television today saying that President Obama and Mitt Romney need to address the issue of gun control as soon as possible. The hostess of the CNN program where Mayor Nutter was a guest stated that she couldn’t believe that the president and Mr. Romney had commented on the shooting without ever mentioning gun control. It is a silly person that expects Mr. Romney to do anything of the sort.

ABC News began early on pushing the gun control theme.

NBC News and MSNBC didn’t wait long to start campaigning for gun control. They also reported on Philadelphia Mayor Nutter’s comments concerning gun control.

CBS didn’t wait long to join the chorus .

Aurora, Colorado already has strict gun control laws:

How will stricter gun laws bring an end to criminals having guns, when the laws against murder have not been able to stop them from killing innocent people?

Currently in Aurora, Colorado, where the shooting took place, it is already unlawful to carry a concealed "dangerous weapon," discharge firearms, unless by law enforcement on duty or on shooting range, and have loaded firearm in motor vehicle.

Chicago has strict gun control laws to little effect:

The City of Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Up until a few months ago, it was illegal for a private citizen to own or possess a handgun anywhere within the city, including in one’s own home. For 2010, Chicago also holds another distinction. More Chicago Police Officers were killed by gunfire this year than any other police agency in the nation. The city also boasts one of the highest violent crime rates in the country, with 1 in 89 residents being victims of violent crime last year.

Right now shooting violence is out of control in Chicago. At least a dozen people were shot during the July 4th holiday:

(CBS) CHICAGO - The violence continues in Chicago, with a 10-year-old girl among more than a dozen people shot across the city Tuesday night and early Wednesday, reports CBS Chicago.

There are conflicting reports of the number of people shot, with CBS Chicago counting 16, and the Chicago Tribune counting 15 in the past 24 hours. The Chicago Police Department told Crimesider they could not provide an exact figure.

The girl and a man were with a group of people cooling off from the heat at an open fire hydrant when they were shot about 11:20 p.m. police News Affairs Officer Hector Alfaro said.

The girl, who was reportedly shot in the left wrist and abdomen, was taken to the hospital in critical condition. The man, 24, was shot in the right heel, police said.

It has been a bloody year for the Windy City so far. On Sunday, the Chicago Tribune reported that homicide was up 37 percent in the first half of 2012, and shootings were up nine percent.

Gun control laws seem to be most ineffective where they are the most strict.

But then I read this:

He was dressed head-to-toe in black bullet-proof gear, including helmet, vest, leggings and a groin and throat protector.

And immediately thought of the North Hollywood shootings:

(Excerpt) Read more at floppingaces.net...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: aurora; gun; holmes; jamesholmes; kevlar
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1 posted on 07/23/2012 1:23:01 PM PDT by Starman417
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To: Starman417

*sigh*

The rifle was not an “assault” (i.e. select fire) rifle. The shotgun was not an “assault” rifle (I’ve actually heard it referred to as an assault shotgun). The tac gear was not likely fully bulletproof. Tac gear is used to dull blunt force, prevent deep slashing cuts, and protect from incapacitating damage.

BPVs are heavy. I doubt this guy was covered from head to toe in bulletproof Kevlar but with tac gear intended to prevent any would-be heroes from trying to tackle him, take him out with a pocket knife, or otherwise put him down with anything other than a gun.

A few well-placed shots with a .40 caliber or higher round would put him on his back in a second, and any gun shots to his extremities, regardless of covering, would have likely injured him. The real tragedy here is the example that this proves that no-gun-zones are invitations to ne’er-do-wells to commit crime. Had one person in that theater had a shot on this idiot, we’d likely be talking about fewer dead, among whom likely would’ve been the shooter.


2 posted on 07/23/2012 1:34:08 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Starman417

So this guy walks up to the Ticket Counter with orange hair wearing a gas mask 2 assault weapons and body armor and nobody thought this was strange and called the authorities? How about saying you can’t go in wearing that!


3 posted on 07/23/2012 1:34:24 PM PDT by tallyhoe
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To: tallyhoe

He probably just told them he was gay and they though nothing of it...(at least the orange hair part...)


4 posted on 07/23/2012 1:37:54 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: tallyhoe
So this guy walks up to the Ticket Counter with orange hair wearing a gas mask 2 assault weapons and body armor and nobody thought this was strange ...

Where have you been pal? Hiding under a rock ... uncommunicative for the last three days?

5 posted on 07/23/2012 1:39:49 PM PDT by BluH2o
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To: tallyhoe

The current theory is that he walked up to the counter with street clothes and a cap on his head, got a ticket, went into the theater, pretended to make a cellphone call near an emergency exit, taped the exit open while he talked on his phone, then left the theater, went to his car, suited up and then returned through the exit.


6 posted on 07/23/2012 1:40:06 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: rarestia

I actually suspect he might not have had actual Kevlar armor plates, and that this was the media misunderstanding “tactical vest” (which he purchased for $106 on-line).


7 posted on 07/23/2012 1:40:57 PM PDT by Strategerist
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To: tallyhoe

lol...yep, that’s exactly what happened—you nailed it. If only you had been in charge of security, you could’ve halted this mass murder by noticing the heavily armed guy in tactical gear and orange hair when NO ONE else did!


8 posted on 07/23/2012 1:42:29 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: tallyhoe

He wasn’t wearing all that gear when he went in. Have you followed the story?


9 posted on 07/23/2012 1:43:09 PM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: Starman417

I didn’t think he was even wearing real body armor, but rather that real-looking Airsoft style stuff.


10 posted on 07/23/2012 1:43:09 PM PDT by tanknetter
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To: rarestia
..I doubt this guy was covered from head to toe in bulletproof Kevlar..

I agree. I have heard the media and blogs making outragious statements about it, but we really don't know anything official about what he was wearing. It could easily have been level 1 or 2A surplus stuff that you can pick up at any army/navy store or online for a couple hundred bucks. It could also have been the body armor worn by paint ballers that looks like it is high level stuff, but really provides zero protection.

Just like when the media claims something is a SWAT level assault rifle, I don't believe it until I get specific models. The 'Assault' rifle this guy had was a cheapo AR Bass Pro type.

11 posted on 07/23/2012 1:50:47 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: Strategerist

I assume the same. I have plenty of gear with Molle loops and use it quite regularly for everything from my laptop bag to my range gear vest. There’s also a weight vest for exercise and weight training that looks exactly like a tac vest and uses Molle-type attachments to add weights.

BPVs are a LOT more expensive than $106.


12 posted on 07/23/2012 1:50:47 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Starman417

What bulletproof vest ?

Every factual account I have read states that he wore a ‘ballistic vest’, which does not mean it was bulletproof. It may have just been a tactical ballistic vest with multiple pockets for magazine clips. It may have been bullet-resistant, or it may not. AFAIK, he was not wearing military body armor, or a bulletproof vest.


13 posted on 07/23/2012 1:55:30 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: tallyhoe
So this guy walks up to the Ticket Counter with orange hair wearing a gas mask 2 assault weapons and body armor and nobody thought this was strange and called the authorities? How about saying you can’t go in wearing that!

Weird as that sounds it might actually have gone down that way. That theater was know for people showing up in costume and sometimes firing pyrotechnics during the late shows. However, it is just as likely that the shooter bought his ticket, walked in and sat down. When the lights were dimmed he walked to the front of the theater and left through an exit door jamming a match book or some such into the striker plate of the lock. With the lock defeated he walked to his vehicle and dressed in his ninja outfit, gathered up hid weapons and ammo and returned to the now dark theater through the unguarded exit. At this point he threw his "distraction" devices and started shooting. I strongly doubt that he had tear gas grenades as CS & CN are barred from civilian purchase. I expect that he acquired some smoke markers which are available as survival/rescue items carried by hikers and campers.

Regards
GtG

14 posted on 07/23/2012 2:02:50 PM PDT by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: rarestia
BPVs are a LOT more expensive than $106.

I was discussing this with someone yesterday and we found you can get surplus Level IIA for under a hundred bucks.

Example. http://www.bodyarmorcompany.com/retail/products.php?productID=950&dept=Military/Outdoor

And that was just the first search result.

15 posted on 07/23/2012 2:04:11 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: Starman417
Currently in Aurora, Colorado, where the shooting took place, it is already unlawful to carry a concealed "dangerous weapon," discharge firearms, unless by law enforcement on duty or on shooting range, and have loaded firearm in motor vehicle.

So Aurora and the theater prohibited carrying or discharging firearms and the shooting still happened. How's that gun control working?

16 posted on 07/23/2012 2:04:27 PM PDT by matt04
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To: mnehring

Yes, and let’s not forget that the gun apparently jammed. This means one or possibly two things:

1) The shooter was using garbage surplus .223 which is notorious for jams in ARs.

and/or

2) The shooter was completely ignorant of the functionality of the AR and did not know how to properly clear a jam.

I’m betting that both are true. Most leftists like to get the most commonly maligned guns to make some sort of statement only to learn that considerations such as proper use and care, quality of ammunition, and just plain good shooting are paramount when trying to get on target.

With this sort of armament and the lack of a full-scale stampede of people out of the theater, a well-trained, true “gun nut” would have numbers well north of 100 dead in less than half the time this kid had.

Then again, those of us in the gun community would never even formulate such a grotesque display of psychosis.


17 posted on 07/23/2012 2:04:38 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: UCANSEE2

If the door that he exited at the front of the theater had been alarmed, the whole episode might have been stopped in its tracks.


18 posted on 07/23/2012 2:05:43 PM PDT by matchgirl (OMG! Obama Must Go !!!!)
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To: UCANSEE2
Good point and you are right. I've read BP everywhere, but if it was just a tac vest, those are a dime a dozen and you can pick them up for a $20 if you shop around.

There has been a lot of exaggeration about what he had and how hard it was to get.

19 posted on 07/23/2012 2:06:09 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: rarestia

I agree, both are probably true. He probably went to Bass Pro (or whatever version of that store he had) and picked up the cheapest one that looked ‘tactical’. Then bought bulk surplus ammunition online. Considering the gun range he tried to get into turned him down, his entire experience was probably watching a few YouTube videos and maybe going out to a field and trying to run some rounds through.


20 posted on 07/23/2012 2:09:29 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: matchgirl
Doubt full...Security in theaters I've been to are effectively nonexistent. Can't even keep most people from throwing food or taking cell phone calls. They are not going to stop a terrorist with a PHD.
21 posted on 07/23/2012 2:10:59 PM PDT by showme_the_Glory (ILLEGAL: prohibited by law. ALIEN: Owing political allegiance to another country or government)
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To: mnehring

I found the tear gas for $17 / canister.

His stash was well within the budget of student loans ($21,500 per year for grad students)


22 posted on 07/23/2012 2:12:03 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: mnehring

I still maintain my previous assessment, however, that someone with a .40 caliber or higher pistol could’ve put this kid on the floor.

People think that a BPV means the shooter just keeps walking. You’re still contending with hundreds of ft.lbs. of pressure displaced across a very small area. There aren’t likely many people in the world, esp. those who’ve not experienced it, who would remain standing after taking even a .380 or 9mm to the chest with a BPV.

I took a beanbag shotgun round to my upper leg at 5 ft. and couldn’t walk for a week. I can’t imagine an actual bullet to the chest with a BPV. The pain was unimaginable.


23 posted on 07/23/2012 2:13:11 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray
I strongly doubt that he had tear gas grenades as CS & CN are barred from civilian purchase.

Another one of those things you can get online rather cheap with only an age verification. They aren't the police grade, but they are available to civilians.

http://www.thehomesecuritysuperstore.com/throwing-grenades-fox-labs-pepper-spray-2-oz-grenade-22gr-p=822

24 posted on 07/23/2012 2:14:50 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: matchgirl

I would imagine theaters will start to alarm the emergency exit doors very soon. Again, that wouldn’t stop a well planned attacker from having someone on the inside to open the door while they wait outside.


25 posted on 07/23/2012 2:15:23 PM PDT by matt04
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To: rarestia
I still maintain my previous assessment, however, that someone with a .40 caliber or higher pistol could’ve put this kid on the floor.

Absolutely, especially for a scrawny punk who probably has never even been punched. He probably is the type where even if he had the best gear, with just the impact he would start crying thinking he was shot. Most likely though, it would have fragmented through a level IIA and tore him up pretty good.

26 posted on 07/23/2012 2:17:34 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: Starman417

How long will it be, before the cinemas have the TSA patting down movie goers?


27 posted on 07/23/2012 2:18:59 PM PDT by 2001convSVT (Going Galt as fast as I can.)
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To: rarestia
The rifle was not an “assault” (i.e. select fire) rifle

Yahoo, in its gun-grabbing furor, was reporting that the "Ar-15 Assault Rifle" had a "100 Round Banana Clip".

Setting aside the fact that a banana clip is something that you use to hold bananas together....

Does a magazine that size exist for the AR-15? And if it does, certainly it would already be outlawed, I'd think. I'm not familiar with CO laws.

But no matter, it's not about reality, it's about control.

28 posted on 07/23/2012 2:20:04 PM PDT by wbill
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To: mnehring

This sort of “tactical” conversation isn’t going on with the MSM crowd, and it should. The people need to know that if someone in that theater was armed, this would not have happened to the degree it did. That would incite the masses to act by petitioning their local governments to do away with these needless regulations and would pressure businesses to think twice about banning firearms in their establishments.

I’ve yet to go into a gun shop, for instance, where I felt unsafe, but when I’m at the mall or a movie theater, I’m oftentimes watching every person as if they could become the next psychotic shooter.


29 posted on 07/23/2012 2:22:10 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: rarestia
a well-trained, true “gun nut” would have numbers well north of 100 dead

Yep, thank god he was only crazy, not competent.

I *read* (with all the usual MSM caveats) that he had left enough firebombs in his apt to level a city block, and cranked his stereo hoping for someone to walk in and trigger it. I guess he wasn't smart enough to dial 911 from his place before leaving.

And, all of the explosives - potentially far more damaging - are getting second bill to the eeeeevil guns. No surprise, but the fact that evil people will figure out a way to do evil, is completely lost on the media. As usual.

30 posted on 07/23/2012 2:26:39 PM PDT by wbill
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To: rarestia
It is interesting (not surprising) the media has ignored this story from the same city just a few months back.

Armed Churchgoer stops rampage shooting- Aurora, Colorado

I'm going to post this as a thread.

31 posted on 07/23/2012 2:27:09 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: wbill

100 round banana clip for an AR? LOL.
Let’s count all the problems with this description.


32 posted on 07/23/2012 2:29:13 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: wbill

I heard someone refer to it as “The AR bullet barrel model” on my local radio station this morning. I didn’t make it past the call screener to correct the host, but I was furious at the misinformation.

I also heard about the “100 round banana clip” and wondered the same. I have a 70 round magazine for my AK, and it’s actually closer to a half-circle. It’s also unwieldy and very heavy. Drum magazines are available for AKs and variants, but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a drum magazine for an AR.

If you look at the pictures from the scene, he apparently dropped the rifle on the way out of the theater, and it appeared to be loaded with a standard 20-round magazine; thus their saying that he “sprayed 100 rounds in seconds” is very likely false and highly prejudicial. He likely went through 20 rounds, reloaded, went through another 20 rounds, etc.

Even the most experienced shooter would take more than a couple seconds to drop the mag and reload, and in that time, any number of armed citizens would have dropped this moron. Sadly, that didn’t happen because guns are bad and kill people.

Anyone else find it amusing that the Left always says “guns are bad,” yet we put a PERSON on trial for the crimes? If I were an attorney, I’d stage a mock trial and put an AR in the witness stand to question. Perhaps have the jury box filled with Remington and Mossberg shottys, a couple of AKs, maybe a Marlin lever-action?


33 posted on 07/23/2012 2:30:52 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: mnehring
:-)

I'll readily admit my ignorance, here. Seems like every time I open my mouth on the subject, far more learned (or opinionated) FReepers are more than willing to rapidly correct me.

I couldn't figure out how someone would put a 100 round stick on an AR-15 either, but just because I'd not seen it, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Someone needs to post "The Reporters Guide to Guns".

34 posted on 07/23/2012 2:34:52 PM PDT by wbill
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To: Starman417

I won’t go into why protective gear might righteously be purchased. Let’s just say it’s the logical extension of the Second Amendment—a vital, defensive component of surviving an attack. .


35 posted on 07/23/2012 2:38:49 PM PDT by Mach9
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To: rarestia
I have a 70 round magazine for my AK, and it’s actually closer to a half-circle. ...that's was I was thinking of, never seen it for an AR.

It’s also unwieldy and very heavy Yep. I'd think that the weight would screw up the accuracy.

'Tis why my grandfather dumped his Thompson at the first opportunity during the war. Said that it weighed a ton, but all of the ammo it took to feed the thing weighed two tons. :-) That and "the dinky 45ACP round didn't have a dammed thing behind it".

36 posted on 07/23/2012 2:40:31 PM PDT by wbill
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To: rarestia

“Beta mags” are drum mags for AR-style rifles.


37 posted on 07/23/2012 2:42:46 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: mnehring

I thought the same thing. 100 rd banana clip... that’d be a sight to see.

Also. Reading tweets by the public about AR-15’s is mind numbing.


38 posted on 07/23/2012 2:43:49 PM PDT by justice14 ("stand up defend or lay down and die")
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To: nascarnation

great.

now we need to ban tac vests,armor,guns,ammo,large magazines...and student loans.


39 posted on 07/23/2012 2:45:14 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: rarestia
but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a drum magazine for an AR.

They make them. I'm just glad the punk didn't have that and a slide fire.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=slide+fire+video&mid=F55CD852CE0467E7C5C3F55CD852CE0467E7C5C3&view=detail&FORM=VIRE2

40 posted on 07/23/2012 2:50:44 PM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Rose, there's a Messerschmitt in the kitchen. Clean it up, will ya?)
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To: wbill
Just to give you a run down of the problems with what the media is saying, ARs don't use 'clips', they use a magazine.

Second, it isn't a 'banana clip' or even a 'banana magazine'. This is a banana magazine.

So is this I guess.

An AR's standard magazine generally will hold 15 to 30 rounds tops. You can purchase a Beta C magazine (drum magazine) that will hold 100 rounds but from the images, that is not what he had. It was a 30 round magazine.

Drum Magazine-

Image from the scene, note the gun in the top right. He didn't have a drum magazine.


41 posted on 07/23/2012 2:58:13 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: justice14

ping 41 for a LOL


42 posted on 07/23/2012 2:59:05 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: wbill

I think it’s next to impossible to make a reliable 100 round clip for an AR-15. The Army went away from 30 round clips because they do not feed reliably. It takes more spring pressure to load more rounds, Hooks Law and all that. Come up with a simple cheap design that maintains uniform pressure and you will become rich. The twenty round clip works more of less perfectly. Tape two together, bottom to bottom and you can quick switch and then grab another 40 round magazine.


43 posted on 07/23/2012 3:05:28 PM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: rarestia
I think the magazine being reference is: beta c mag These magazines are prone to jamming, especially when loaded incorrectly. In fact, most weapon jams are magazine-related. Thankfully, this maniac appears to be a weapons novice who did not know to perform immediate action on a jammed rifle. As for the belief that higher capacity magazines should be banned, I am against that. All such bans and forms of gun control do is give an advantage to the criminal and potential tyrant who would either disregard the law or would use the law to harm the law-abiding citizen. I had a long argument with a coworker yesterday about guns/gun control. This guy is a good fellow and very conservative about most things. However, when it comes down to the subject of guns, he can't understand why anyone other than law enforcement and the military should be allowed to own them. He makes allowances for me, saying that he doesn't mind me owning them, because, as he says, he knows me and that I am responsible, etc. After listening to him foam at the mouth for about 10 minutes, I ended the exchange by saying "if you want to want to be disarmed and helpless, so be it. However, if you think you are going to force me to be that way, you are sadly mistaken."
44 posted on 07/23/2012 3:08:45 PM PDT by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: ilovesarah2012

What did he have big pockets? I mean Assault weapons are pretty hard to hide!


45 posted on 07/23/2012 3:09:53 PM PDT by tallyhoe
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To: mnehring

I understand he had both a drum mag and a regular magazine.

The drum jammed, he switched to the regular, but could not clear the ham, having never had the oppotunity to get in range time, thanks to a quick-thinking gun club owner.


46 posted on 07/23/2012 3:11:28 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (I will never vote for Romney. Ever.)
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To: BluH2o

Well I haven’t heard your theory yet. Were you there? Has the police said what happened yet? Not theories! Pal!


47 posted on 07/23/2012 3:13:11 PM PDT by tallyhoe
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To: 3Fingas
I had a long argument with a coworker yesterday about guns/gun control.

Someone yesterday posted a great comment I've already used with success.Why is it he surrendered to the police without putting up a fight? Could it be because they were armed and he didn't want to get shot?

48 posted on 07/23/2012 3:25:28 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: rarestia

I’d place my bet on a cheap defective after-market drum mag being the source of the jam.


49 posted on 07/23/2012 3:26:20 PM PDT by Kenton
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To: mnehring

Hard to say why this nutjob took any of the actions he did. Sufficed to say, he is miserable piece of trash who should be prosecuted quickly and, when found guilty, should be promptly executed.


50 posted on 07/23/2012 3:36:18 PM PDT by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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