Confederate Veterans & Their Descendants - Defenders And Builders Of These United States

Old Virginia Blog ^ | 21 July 2012 | Richard Williams

[Davy Buck]

These contradictions explain, in part, what at first glance appears to be irreconcilable ideals: the South's fierce opposition to Federal dominance and over-reaching authority, as well as it's undying patriotism - both of which continue to this day . . .

[khelus]

Thanks for posting. Interesting article on the infamous Scots-Irish.

[Davy Buck]

You’re welcome.

[Fast Moving Angel]

But remember, according to our current administration, they didn't build it -- someone else built it for them. /s

That *is* a good site - followed links and saw videos about the archaeology going on at Johnson's Island (Confederate prison), Mosby, lots of other interesting stuff. Thanks for posting!

[Aleya2Fairlie]

Spectacular! Thanks for posting this!

[BroJoeK]

I'd suspect the real divisions are between urban and rural -- states with larger urban populations contribute fewer to military service.

Doesn't this map tell a lot? :

[mac_truck]

I'd suspect the real divisions are between urban and rural -- states with larger urban populations contribute fewer to military service.

Minorities generally are over represented in the military, which puts the chart into better perspective.

[BroJoeK]

mac_truck: "Minorities generally are over represented in the military, which puts the chart into better perspective."

I'm sure you are right, but then check out California -- is there a state with higher percentages of minorities than California?

I would suggest to you that if the military service map were broken down by counties, then it would look pretty much like those county-by-county red & blue election maps, which show Republicans carrying nearly all the rural counties, Dems the cities:

Red = McCain, Blue = Obama

[x]

Am I missing something? Blogger Kevin Levin posted that quote with a few words of neutral commentary, giving the quote a context without disagreeing with it or disputing its truth or meaning. Blogger Richard Williams seizes on one word in Levin's blog, accuses him of "not getting it," and regurgitates a lot of data, accusing another historian of also "not getting it" along the way. Williams's commenter says "They don't "want" to get it. It does not meet their world view so they reject it and replace it with something more hate filled." Talk about a made-up controversy! "Arguing" about nothing!

People are going to wonder about how Southerners went from fighting for the US to fighting against it to fighting for it again. It isn't something that goes without explanation. It's something that intelligent people are going to wonder about. If you want to give reasons or explanations, fine, but this idea that anybody who doesn't automatically see things from your point of view, "doesn't get it" or "doesn't want to get it" or has some evil intent is pointless and only serves to irritate people who don't already agree with you, while allowing those who already do agree to make the standard knee-jerk responses.

[mac_truck]

-- is there a state with higher percentages of minorities than California?

I should have been more clear..blacks in particular are overrepresented in the military, and consequently skew the enlistment data toward the South. In a heads up comparison of white enlistees, the map you posted would look quite different.

[BroJoeK]

mac_truck: "blacks in particular are overrepresented in the military, and consequently skew the enlistment data toward the South."

I don't know where your numbers come from, but a couple of quick googles turned up statistics on black Americans.

African Americans account for 12.4% of the US population and 14.8% of the US military which, depending on how you chose to look at it, is 2.4% over-represenation (14.8% minus 12.4%) or 19% over-represented (14.8% divided by 12.4%).

Either way, the "excess" doesn't seem to be a big number -- maybe 36,000 out of 1.5 million total military.
Hard to imagine that alone accounts for the enlistment map's southern skew.

[mac_truck]

Of the ten states with the highest black populations in the US, seven are from the South with Mississippi having a 37% black population and Virginia roughly 20%. All Southern states have a larger population of blacks than the national average.

We both agree that blacks are generally overrepresented in the military, which swells the overall Southern numbers even further. Black enlistment has fallen sharply since 2007, but the premise still holds.

For Southern whites to claim some sort of superior martial heredity or deeper patriotism using military enlistment numbers heavily skewed by Southern blacks is both false and risible...bless their hearts.

[BroJoeK]

Risible? Well, this bears further inquiry since I’ve always supposed it’s true, if somewhat ironic.
Of course black over representation makes perfect historical and economic sense.

I still suspect that a county by county map of over & under representation would roughly match your typical presidential election map.

Final item: why the black enlistment dropoff after 2007?
Is some other group is now over represented?