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Social Security Admin Buys 174000 Hollow Point Bullets: Border Patrol Armed with Bean Bags
Maggie's Notebook ^ | 8-16-12 | Maggie@MaggiesNotebook

Posted on 08/17/2012 7:47:47 AM PDT by maggiesnotebook

The short story is the Social Security Administration (SSA) has 295 special agents working in 66 offices throughout the U.S. They have full authority to be armed. Standard issue is ".357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacked hollow point pistol ammunition." These agents investigate allegations of Social Security fraud and respond to threats against Social Security offices, employees and customers...but they cannot stop sending checks to dead people or other unworthy recipients. Hollow points won't stop the theft of my Social Security. We can feel safe though, as each agent now has almost 600 rounds of his very own.

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has ordered 46,000 rounds of hollow points, which I understand are a good piece of ammo because they expand inside the body, and do not exit, meaning that a bystander will not be hit by an exiting bullet. They are not always legal to use in war however.

Homeland Security ordered 450 MILLION rounds of assorted ammo and another 175 MILLION rounds of .233 caliber, along with a new supply of bulletproof booths for use somewhere.

Is it too much to ask for Congress to explain why we are armed to the teeth, but not through the Pentagon, and why we refuse to let our Border Guards use real bullets, rather than guns shooting bean bags. Agent Brian Terry is dead. His bean bag gun fell with him.


TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: 2012; aliens; ammunition; banglist; beanbags; borderpatrol; borderwars; govtabuse; hollowpoints; socialsecurity

1 posted on 08/17/2012 7:47:57 AM PDT by maggiesnotebook
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To: maggiesnotebook

And whatever happened with the DXepartment of Education’s SWAT team that arrested a black guy, single father, and his kids, and held them for six hours, because the absconded nowhere-to-be-seen wife had not paid back her student loan?

do all these agents have the power of arrest?


2 posted on 08/17/2012 7:52:31 AM PDT by squarebarb ( Fairy tales are basically true.)
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To: maggiesnotebook

The “special agents” need almost 600 rounds each to be “armed when on official duty”.


3 posted on 08/17/2012 7:53:15 AM PDT by Proud2BeRight
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To: maggiesnotebook

Hollow points? Aren’t those known as “cop killer bullets?” Why do these agencies want to kill cops? Or do they become “civilian killer bullets” when the government uses them?


4 posted on 08/17/2012 7:55:26 AM PDT by running_dog_lackey
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To: running_dog_lackey

Are these FedMob agents allowed to use them in NJ? NJ citizens can end up in prison for quite a while if caught with hollow point “cop killer” cartridges.


5 posted on 08/17/2012 7:58:38 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Proud2BeRight

“The “special agents” need almost 600 rounds each to be “armed when on official duty”.”

That’s 50 practice or training rounds a month. I’d get rusty if I cut back to that.


6 posted on 08/17/2012 7:59:53 AM PDT by DBrow
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To: maggiesnotebook

This goes back to 2010 but is relevant here:

http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/2010/03/18/why-the-dept-of-education-needs-shotguns.htm


7 posted on 08/17/2012 8:03:25 AM PDT by DBrow
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To: DBrow

Most folks don’t routinely train with hollow points. They have only one purpose: in this case, to kill citizens.


8 posted on 08/17/2012 8:09:31 AM PDT by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: dagogo redux
I'd be glad to train with only my carry ammo, but I have to spend my own money, so its FMJ for me. Government workers get to train with what they carry because they are not paying for the ammo like us little people.

Anyway, 50 rounds a month ain't near enough.

9 posted on 08/17/2012 8:16:35 AM PDT by onceone (0311, K Co., 3/5 1st Mar Div, RVN '68)
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To: maggiesnotebook

Since when does every Feral agency arm itself?! Since when? There is _no_ Feral police power. This was/is well established law.


10 posted on 08/17/2012 8:25:39 AM PDT by veracious
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To: maggiesnotebook
These agents investigate allegations of Social Security fraud

No. That's the FBI's job. Giving the SAA "special agents" only allows the SSA to be armed and become a rogue agency, just like the EPA and FDA.

11 posted on 08/17/2012 8:26:16 AM PDT by Domandred (Fdisk, format, and reinstall the entire .gov system.)
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To: running_dog_lackey
Hollow points? Aren’t those known as “cop killer bullets?”

Hollow points are more potent fire power and they are anybody killer bullets.

12 posted on 08/17/2012 8:35:59 AM PDT by Bitsy
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To: maggiesnotebook

Our border agents(if fired on)are told to”run and hide”.This HUGE ammo buy smells like they are expecting social unrest(or are planning on instigating same).”THEY” are The Government!!


13 posted on 08/17/2012 8:40:42 AM PDT by bandleader
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To: maggiesnotebook

Just some perspective for the discussion.

During my time in the Marine Corps, annual pistol qualification required 50 rounds per day for 3 to 4 days (Range week for pistol was usually Tuesday through Friday. Most officers and Staff NCOs where excellent marksmen and usually shot for record on Thursday, pre-qual day.)

For discussion purposes, let’s say that the 295 special agents of the Social Security Agency are really expert and require only two times through a similar course of fire to qualify.

At that rate of expenditure (295 agents x 100 rounds/year),
174,000 rounds of .357 ammunition is @ 5 3/4 years of amunition just for qualification; not an unreasonable amount especially considering that it distributed between 66 field offices. If the special agents shoot more frequently, the supply is even less.

As for the reported 175 million rounds of 5.56mm ammo ordered by DHS, that amount clearly requires more investigation.

DHS states on its website that it had 199,492 employees in 2011. Of these, U.S. Customs and Border Protection had the most employees with 58,575.

The following number is probably way too high, but let’s assume there are 75,000 employees within DHS that are armed and must to qualify with a 5.56mm caliber weapon each year. Let’s further assume they fire 100 rounds during qualification. That’s 7.5 million rounds per year. At that expenditure rate, 175 million rounds equals @23 years of 5.56mm ammunition requirement for qualification. For the 175 million rounds to be a 5 + year supply, the expenditure rate would have to be 400 rounds per year for each of the 75,000 shooters.


14 posted on 08/17/2012 8:41:32 AM PDT by Captain Rhino (Determined Effort is the hammer that Human Will uses to forge Tomorrow on the anvil of Today.)
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To: running_dog_lackey

“Hollow-Points”aren’t”Cop-Killer”bullets.”Hollow-Points”won’t penetrate “Body-Armor”.They are designed fragment within body-tissue.


15 posted on 08/17/2012 8:43:45 AM PDT by bandleader
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To: maggiesnotebook

Sounds like it’s time for some new, Tea Party backed laws.

“All armed federal employees shall be under the jurisdiction and supervision of the Department of Defense, the Department of Justice, the Department of Homeland Security, the Treasury Department, the United States Postal Inspection Service, or the Central Intelligence Agency.

“All arms and explosives provided to detachments assigned to other federal agencies and bureaus will be maintained and secured by the detachment’s parent agency.”


16 posted on 08/17/2012 8:51:17 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: running_dog_lackey

No, “Cop Killers” are called Talons.. they are jacketed with acrylic so they will slip through the Kevlar.. although, they are also hollow-points.


17 posted on 08/17/2012 8:59:38 AM PDT by Bikkuri (Choose, a communist, socialist, or Patriot)
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To: running_dog_lackey

oops.. minor correction, “Black Talons”..


18 posted on 08/17/2012 9:00:44 AM PDT by Bikkuri (Choose, a communist, socialist, or Patriot)
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To: maggiesnotebook

600 rounds per agent? Over a year’s time that is only 50 rounds per month; barely enough to keep the skills tweaked.


19 posted on 08/17/2012 9:04:13 AM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: dagogo redux

If the hollow points have a different point of aim than, say, SWC or RNL, you might wish to train with them.


20 posted on 08/17/2012 9:06:22 AM PDT by DBrow
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To: Bikkuri
You've been reading too much of the MSM. They don't go thru Kevlar vests any better than other rounds of the same caliber. The black coating simply lubricated the round in the barrel. The Black Talon rounds were effective because of the manner in which the "petals" of the round opened up as it expanded. Due to the bad exaggerationist press, Winchester stopped selling them. Functionally, they have been replaced by the Winchester Ranger SXT line. This article from the lefty-leaning Wikipedia lays it out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Talon
21 posted on 08/17/2012 9:14:19 AM PDT by Pecos (Double tap: the only acceptable gun control)
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To: maggiesnotebook

Sorry now that I sold all my firearms and ammo.


22 posted on 08/17/2012 9:15:12 AM PDT by hadaclueonce (you are paying 12% more for fuel because of Ethanol. Smile big Corn Lobby,)
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To: Pecos

I’m not going to argue about what they do.. but, I will say that, when I was a cop.. and when they came out (Black Talons), we were told be be careful.. I didn’t get any of that info from the MSM.. I haven’t even been in the states since 1998 (when I left the Sheriff’s Office to come here)... and even then, I didn’t listen to their (MSM’s) drivel :p


23 posted on 08/17/2012 9:38:18 AM PDT by Bikkuri (Choose, a communist, socialist, or Patriot)
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To: running_dog_lackey

Yes, I know about hollow points (use them in my .357) but what are ‘jacked’ rounds? Only useable by jack booted types? Inquiring minds want to know...


24 posted on 08/17/2012 10:06:15 AM PDT by ammomajor (If 'helicopter Ben' says gold isn't money, I want more of it.)
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To: DBrow

I shoot more than that a week! I’m not rusty


25 posted on 08/17/2012 11:16:32 AM PDT by nobamanomore
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To: DBrow

While your point is well-taken, the reality of practical use in an actual self-defense situation makes such small differences as that immaterial for the vast majority of us.

Such real-life scenarios are frequently at short distances, and in high-adrenaline situations, where the basic practicalities of keeping the gun running, stance, presentation and grip will go much farther towards success than precision aiming. If you train most of the time with 230gr .45 FMJ in your 1911, when the SHTF it will not matter much if you have 230gr .45 HP ammo instead, IMHO. Center of mass is center of mass, and head shots are not practical at great distances under those circumstances anyway.


26 posted on 08/17/2012 11:25:29 AM PDT by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: dagogo redux

Agree! Also for most of us the cost difference between “training” or practice ammo and tactical or carry ammo drives us to the cheapest options. I practice with 230 rnl handloads yet carry pricey hollowpoints.

This is true in police departments, I see 9mm fmj from Blazer on the line yet they carry some type of hollow-point with an X in the name.

I don’t think the federal cops care that much about the difference in cost. I mean, we can see their requisitions! DHS did order “practice and training ammo” but I don’t recall noticing that it was at a lower tech level or quality.


27 posted on 08/17/2012 12:18:17 PM PDT by DBrow
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To: Bikkuri

Understood. They would certainly be devastating to someone not wearing soft armor, but then that was what they were intended to do. Perhaps that is why you were told to be careful.


28 posted on 08/23/2012 9:18:19 AM PDT by Pecos (Double tap: the only acceptable gun control)
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To: Pecos

Lol.. speaking of ‘soft armor’.. it is really irritating when movies, and even ‘journalists’ call body armor, “flack vests/jackets”... XD I guess that would equate to a Marlin .22 to an AK47 ;~)


29 posted on 08/23/2012 9:33:26 AM PDT by Bikkuri (Choose, a communist, socialist, or Patriot)
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