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FoxNews claims Obamacare punishes hospitals if their patients with heart failure live instead of die
wordpress ^ | August 23, 2012 | Dan from Squirrel Hill

Posted on 08/23/2012 8:52:05 PM PDT by grundle

Fox News reports:

A provision of ObamaCare is set to punish roughly two-thirds of U.S. hospitals evaluated by Medicare starting this fall over high readmission rates

Starting in October, Medicare will reduce reimbursements to hospitals with high 30-day readmission rates

“Among patients with heart failure, hospitals that have higher readmission rates actually have lower mortality rates,” said Sunil Kripalani, MD, a professor with Vanderbilt University Medical Center who studies hospital readmissions. “So, which would we rather have — a hospital readmission or a death?”

If this is really true, then it’s quite scary.

I googled the doctor’s quote to try to find a better source, because a lot of people don’t trust Fox News. None of the mainstream media seems to have covered it so far. Maybe that’s because it’s not really true and Fox is lying – or maybe it’s because it is true and the other sources haven’t reported it due to their alleged “bias.” I don’t know. I wish that the Washington Post would investigate this claim by Fox News to find out whether it’s true or false.

If this is true, it’s terrifying.

If it’s false, then shame on Fox news for scaring people like that.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: abortion; deathpanels; heartdisease; heartfailure; hospitalpenalties; medicare; obamacare; obamacarehospitals; zerocare

1 posted on 08/23/2012 8:52:12 PM PDT by grundle
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To: grundle

I remember hearing about this some time ago.


2 posted on 08/23/2012 8:56:23 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Fate plays chess and you don't find out until too late that he's been using two queens all along)
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To: grundle

The main problem with managing people with heart failure is they don’t listen to the advice of the health care providers. They go out and eat a big ham dinner or a huge Chinese meal and of course they end up back in the hospital. Whose fault is that?


3 posted on 08/23/2012 8:57:02 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Jet Jaguar; NorwegianViking; ExTexasRedhead; HollyB; FromLori; EricTheRed_VocalMinority; ...

The list, Ping

Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list

http://www.nachumlist.com/


4 posted on 08/23/2012 9:11:46 PM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: grundle

5 posted on 08/23/2012 9:16:52 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: Nachum
That is the only way to cut the Cost Curve

Anyone watch Royal Pains?

Better save your money for Concierge Doctors and care

6 posted on 08/23/2012 9:19:23 PM PDT by scooby321 (AMS)
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To: scooby321
Better save your money for Concierge Doctors and care

And be prepared to bribe your doctors under the table.

7 posted on 08/23/2012 9:24:00 PM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: grundle

There is definitely a provision which punishes hospitals for high re-admission rates. It is supposed to be to make sure they focus more on outpatient care and preventative services, to lower costs.

But it does have this obvious side-effect that people who die in the hospital will help the re-admission average. Also, it could encourage keeping people longer, rather than risking sending them home only to have them have to come back. In that case, the clause will actually drive up costs instead of lowering them.

It is in the end a typical example of how government is completely incapable of using laws to force outcomes. We all know that we want to reduce costs, but you can’t make a law that will dictate how to do that — if you could, then everybody would already have reduced costs.

Of course, if we just have the hospitals let old people die, that will “reduce the costs”. If people paid their own bills, that would actually be a negative outcome for the hospital, since a dead person can’t pay them any more money. But since the payee is the government, they have every incentive to cut care and let you die. Especially since the government will punish you for saving the patient and having them return later.


8 posted on 08/23/2012 9:28:55 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: grundle

It is called, denied accessibility and it is common amoungst socialised care as in the UK.

That is why they claim a longer life/lower death rate over there. If someone is denied access to care and they die, it is not counted because they never got into the system.

Oh and BTW. Abortions are not counted either. Since the baby was never “Born” they arent counted. Then they claim a lower infant mortality rate.

This is the most immoral type of system ever devised by any man.


9 posted on 08/23/2012 9:35:06 PM PDT by crz
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To: grundle

“And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.” ~Governor Sarah Palin


10 posted on 08/23/2012 9:36:29 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: Nachum; Jet Jaguar; neverdem
It's the Cheney sucessful recovery reaction syndrome.


11 posted on 08/23/2012 9:38:41 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (74 days)
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To: BIGLOOK

Good point.


12 posted on 08/23/2012 9:43:13 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar
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To: Nachum; scooby321

Medical Tourism
http://www.rxpinoy.com/medicaltourismphilippines/index.php

http://www.philmedtourism.com/default

http://philippinemedicaltourism.info/


13 posted on 08/23/2012 9:46:53 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: Jet Jaguar

Remind me to use Spell-check s little more often. JJ. Or get new key board. This one seems listing to the left.


14 posted on 08/23/2012 9:52:28 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (74 days)
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To: grundle
I can only give my own experience on this. I know what the doctor said was true and in the language used in Obama Care, but IMHO, it's already in effect in Medicare. My Mom had a stroke in January. She had been a 3 time cancer survivor before the stroke and turned 80 in June of 2011. She was paralyzed on the left side and had a feeding tube inserted because she couldn't swallow good enough to suit the doctors to allow her to eat or drink. Medicare paid for her initial ER treatment and stabilized her. She had pneumonia from aspirating food when she had the stroke. They moved her to a private room after 3 days and gave her antibiotics. The "clot buster" didn't work, so she was told after about 2 weeks, she had to be moved to a "Nursing Care" facility because Medicare wouldn't pay anymore. She was moved to a Nursing care hospital for 21 days because that was all Medicare would pay for. Then I was told to find her a Nursing Home, or take her home myself. She was still on antibiotics, couldn't eat, and needed therapy. She was slowly improving, but was absolutely not ready to go anywhere. Out she went to a nursing home and she was pulled off the antibiotics and succumbed to infection after 7 days. They wouldn't send her to the hospital till I made them. The hospital looked at her chart and NO DOCTOR even looked at her, only a PA. She laid in the bed until she died the next morning. Medicare only pays for 21 days in the hospital and when she got out, she wasn't going back. The nursing home was the 3rd step in the killing process to drain all your funds so you will get Medicaid. She didn't survive that.

My deduction was she was 80, a 3 time cancer survivor, and now a stroke victim. They were through with her. She didn't fit their idea of someone worthy of any more funding.

If you look at the Government programs of any type, they all have regulations to handle all cases. If you try to get individual attention, you will not fit the funding. Sarah Palin spoke of a "Death Panel" in Obama Care and was roundly criticized. If you look at the 15 person appointed panel, there is no appeal, not even to a court. They will decide who lives and who dies. Telling a hospital that they can't readmit a patient is just a cost saving measure that will end up killing people. When someone talks of abortion, they always say the government CAN"T get between the doctor and the patient. With all others the doctor can't get between the government and the patient.

15 posted on 08/23/2012 9:55:08 PM PDT by chuckles
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To: Nachum
And be prepared to bribe your doctors under the table.

And bring coins to feed the parking meter attached to the bed post.

16 posted on 08/23/2012 9:55:25 PM PDT by spokeshave (The only people better off today than 4 years ago are the Prisoners at Guantanamo.)
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To: grundle

I posted something on this earlier. Hospitals/Doctors can be fined if their readmission numbers for certain conditions such as CHF. This will cause hospitals to either not admit or treat as outpatients some very sick people.


17 posted on 08/23/2012 9:58:23 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Democrats: Ticket of Dope and Chains.)
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To: grundle

It IS true. My doctor told me about it last month.

Our local hospital is trying to find a way around the provision by dismissing fragile patients not to go home or back to the care of their family doctors, but rather into intermediate care at a facility adjacent to, and owned by, the hospital.

That way, the hospital both monitors their progress and can also claim that they were still patients, not fully dismissed.

I have no idea if it will work, but the scheme is cutting into the patient load of primary care docs, who are already hurting, and coming between them and long-time patients.


18 posted on 08/23/2012 11:30:14 PM PDT by Jedidah
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To: DManA

You are absolutely correct! I am a medical coding analyst for a regional hospital. In plain English, I read entire medical charts for a living.

Congestive Heart Failure is difficult to control in the best of circumstances. The are MANY reasons that a patient has CHF. However, some of the exacerbations of the condition can be controlled to a point. CHF requires a delicate balance of fluids in the body. Many older patients want a quality of life that includes “eating what they want”, and continue to eat sodium laden foods.
Conversely, hospitals are required to treat all patients - even ones that caused their own illness. Whether it’s an elderly man with CHF who ate a bag of salty potato chips or a drug addict who overdosed on heroin.
So Obamacare wants to punish/penalize hospitals for treating patients - patients that they are required by law to treat under all circumstances.
This makes me want to scream and bang my head on my desk!

Penalize enough hospitals and there won’t be any left to treat anyone!!


19 posted on 08/24/2012 4:38:14 AM PDT by Mrs. B.S. Roberts
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To: Mrs. B.S. Roberts

My wife is a PA in a heart failure clinic.

I really think they should come up with a different name for the condition. First time I heard it I thought if their hearts failed why are they still alive?


20 posted on 08/24/2012 5:14:18 AM PDT by DManA
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To: grundle; justiceseeker93

Since they are writing the rules as they go any thing is possible.

To many repeat visits to your doctor could be next, or routine tests they order every 3-6 months to monitor the meds you are on.

Then you have the hypochondriac, the drug addict, etc that use the hospital a lot more than most people. And all the illegals using it as a doctors office. But instead of punishing them, it is the hospital that will be punished.

Some of this is from 1 day surgeries on high risk seniors who should stay the night at least for monitoring, but Medicare nor secondary ins. does not cover it.

Medicare has a set number of days for any illness you are admitted for and many are sent home before they are ‘ready’ to go home. And end up back in rather quickly.

A step down facility would be more the answer to this issue that was less expensive, but would provide monitoring better, one would think. Sort of a half way hospital setting, not a nursing home or Hospice setting.

So you punish the hospital or doctor for the situation Medicare and Congress has created instead of the fixing the issues by thinking outside the traditional box.


21 posted on 08/24/2012 6:04:40 AM PDT by GailA (IF U will not keep your promises to the Military, U won't keep them to the public)
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To: DManA

“I really think they should come up with a different name for the condition. First time I heard it I thought if their hearts failed why are they still alive?”

You are absolutely correct. Dumb name for the condition. Many people don’t understand what it really is...
I describe it as trying to blow up a balloon underwater. The fluids around the heart make it difficult for the heart to function - the heart isn’t failing...it’s been “squished” by fluids around it. (of course there’s other conditions that cause it too)

Your wife must be a saint dealing with people who won’t follow the medical advice on diet and salt!!


22 posted on 08/24/2012 6:16:33 AM PDT by Mrs. B.S. Roberts
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To: DManA

Well when the death panels kick in that won’t be a problem anymore, they will be denied treatment.


23 posted on 08/24/2012 6:19:44 AM PDT by chiefqc
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To: grundle; conservativegramma; Conservativegreatgrandma; eeevil conservative; SunkenCiv; Impy; ...

Not surprising, especially with the Obama Administration. Medicare has been chiseling away on doctor and hospital reimbursement for decades. The Medicare cuts integral to Obamacare are predictably accelerating the process. Anytime you have government rationing of health care, you almost inevitably run into perverse monetary incentives encouraging death as opposed to prolonging life.


24 posted on 08/24/2012 6:34:47 AM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: Mrs. B.S. Roberts

I think she would say the BEST part of the job is dealing with the people.


25 posted on 08/24/2012 6:39:09 AM PDT by DManA
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Thre was a story (quoted on FR) about British hospitals that were being judged on the basis of the speed with which patients were moved thru the ER. Therefore, they were being held in their ambulances too long, and the in-ambulance death rate went up. But, that metric was not being judged by NHS.


26 posted on 08/24/2012 6:44:50 AM PDT by Pecos (Double tap: the only acceptable gun control)
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To: crz
Oh and BTW. Abortions are not counted either. Since the baby was never “Born” they arent counted. Then they claim a lower infant mortality rate.

Outside the US, for very premature babies, they are often counted as miscarriages and no care is even attempted.

27 posted on 08/24/2012 6:48:47 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (A deep-fried storm is coming, Mr Obama.)
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To: chuckles
Medicare only pays for 21 days in the hospital and when she got out, she wasn't going back. The nursing home was the 3rd step in the killing process to drain all your funds so you will get Medicaid. She didn't survive that.

My mom went through that, too.

This is why it's very important for the elderly to do financial planning, and get major assets out of their name BEFORE they get sick.

28 posted on 08/24/2012 6:55:56 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (A deep-fried storm is coming, Mr Obama.)
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To: justiceseeker93; AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; ...

Thanks justiceseeker93.


29 posted on 08/24/2012 4:33:46 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: justiceseeker93

I’ve found out the hard way when you go into a hospital setting to take bleach wipes, cell phones, and have a relatives who can be with the person in the hospital 24 hrs a day and know enough about medical care to see to it that the person who is in the hospital gets the needed care and to watch the meds they are given like a hawk. And to have enough legal knowledge to know when your relative us being given poor treatment, lack of treatment or getting screwed.

Hospitals are short of nursing staff and full of germs, it is bad enough during the day, even worse at night. ER’s have become so slow they might as well be Minor Meds, even the private ones.


30 posted on 08/25/2012 1:51:23 AM PDT by GailA (IF U will not keep your promises to the Military, U won't keep them to the public)
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