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By Focusing on the Economy, We Are Ignoring Much Bigger Problems
Patriot Post ^ | 8/30/12 | joanie-f

Posted on 09/01/2012 6:37:39 PM PDT by joanie-f

Think back on the way the early Americans lived. Consider the quality of life, if you will, of the early pioneers who crossed the country in small covered wagons, who staked a claim to a small piece of land somewhere in the midwest or west, and who spent the next many years living off the land, growing their own food, hunting for meat, caring for sick family members, often without the aid of doctors or other medical practitioners.

These were our forebears. They didn't have the luxury of concerning themselves with those things that today's Americans place at the top of their list of concerns: the job market, affordable medical coverage, the unemployment rate, and the like. Those who came before us were busy doing what they had to do to simply survive from day to day, defending their freedoms, staking out and protecting what was theirs, and defining and facing down enemies.

With the election nearing, we consistently hear both the American electorate, and those running for office, discussing what they perceive as the most pressing issues of the day. Invariably, the issues that tend to top that list are economic ones: the ailing jobs market, high unemployment numbers, the price of a gallon of gasoline, the national debt, the declining net worth of the average American family.

Indeed, all one has to do this week is listen to the speeches at the Republican convention to verify that those domestic economic issues are at the forefront of the nation's consciousness.

I suggest that placing those issues on top of our list of national priorities is representative of short-sightedness at its worst, and we would all be significantly better off if we stepped back and looked at the big picture. If we continue to refuse to do so, we ignore that big picture at great peril.

I will grant you that the American economy is faltering. The jobs picture is bleak. Unemployment is decimating our workforce and harming our families. Prices, especially the price of gasoline, are rising and will continue to do so without the implementation of rational economic policies. Our government spending spree has placed a burden on the shoulders of our children and grandchildren that is beyond shameful. Yet all of these concerns are relatively fleeting, and reversible, under the right leadership.

At the same time, there are three glaring crises facing this country which, if not soon addressed, and if not soon brought into the forefront of the national consciousness, will not be reversed, and may prove fatal to the American experiment itself. Those three crises are embodied in (1) our dramatic loss of personal liberty, (2) the erosion of our national sovereignty, and (3) the threat of radical Islam to our very survival as a people.

Americans' personal liberties have been usurped at an unprecedented rate over the past four years. The oppressive regulations, mandates, penalties and fines contained in Obamacare alone are mind-boggling. Add to that the mountain of regulations that have been placed on the business community through edicts handed down from the administration itself, as well as its agencies (the EPA being among the most flagrant abusers of centralized power) and we find ourselves handcuffed by a government that appears to believe that its relationship to the citizenry is that of master/slave. Such blatant usurpations of individual liberties rarely retrace themselves in the history of mankind.

Likewise, our national sovereignty has been compromised in ways that many Americans seem to not even recognize. This president has sought to cede, and has in many ways succeeded in ceding, much of our sovereign power to global entities, with the United Nations being the primary power beneficiary. Additionally, our southern border remains porous, and there is no accounting for the thousands of people who cross that border every week: Mexicans seeking a new home, and terrorists seeking God only knows what. A nation is no longer sovereign when its government refuses to protect its borders from infiltration by unknown entities.

In these past four years, our president has bypassed the congress and effectively declared war on several countries. The result has been political instability in each case, and the seizure of power by radical Islamist elements. The power of the Muslim Brotherhood alone has risen exponentially, thanks to the president's foreign policy/war interventions. The American president is emboldening radical Islam, a "religion" whose stated destiny includes the destruction of America and her allies.

All three of the relatively unacknowledged crises that face America -- our loss of personal liberty, the erosion of our national sovereignty, and the dramatic rise in the power and breadth of radical Islam -- will eventually threaten our very lives. The more tyrannical a government becomes, the less it values human life. The loss of a national identity, and national borders, will lead to eventual dissolution of the fabric of society, unrest and violence. And ignoring, even encouraging, the rise of a violent, radical, powerful enemy is nothing less than suicidal.

An ailing economy is repairable. The process may require some temporary quality of life sacrifices, but the reward will be worth the sacrifice. The loss of freedom, the loss of national identity, and the refusal to face a deadly enemy threatens irreversible destruction, with the result being an America that we no longer recognize, and an America that our Founders would have sought to flee in search of a better place, a place where liberty is valued, where national identity and borders are respected, and where leaders face down enemies rather than emboldening them.

I suggest that it is time we Americans stop looking at the quality-of-life problems that we face each day and begin looking at the threat-to-life problems that are looming just over the horizon as a result of a government that seeks to enslave us, refuses to protect us from invaders, and emboldens our enemies.


TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: borders; campaign; economy; election; islam; jobs; obama; romney; terrorism
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1 posted on 09/01/2012 6:37:41 PM PDT by joanie-f
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To: Alamo-Girl; Czar; betty boop; Jeff Head; tet68; ForGod'sSake; PDGearhead; dforest; meadsjn; ...

Ping for additions, comments, debate.


2 posted on 09/01/2012 6:40:27 PM PDT by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: joanie-f
Personally, I would like to see the size and power of the federal government drastically, drastically cut back. This would mean a lot of layoffs. Major unemployment. Not just government civil servants -- people at Lockheed, Cisco, Ford, you name it. If the US budget got cut about $2T a year it would have a major economic impact on this country. In the short term, it would be unbelievably painful.

But it would be worth it.

3 posted on 09/01/2012 6:42:00 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (ua)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Let me add that this is why I have a problem with Paul Ryan. Barack Obama has been having annual deficits of $1.5T -- and Ryan's "draconian" plan is to cut $50B a year for 10 years.

Not even close, Paul. Not a serious effort. At all.

4 posted on 09/01/2012 6:44:08 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (ua)
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To: joanie-f

The two are intertwined. All that nannydom is expensive.


5 posted on 09/01/2012 6:47:04 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (let me ABOs run loose, lew (or is that lou?))
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To: joanie-f

There’s the 30 million plus illegals in America who are enough to create some 50 new congressional districts and all the costs incurred by those districts. The illegals don’t even need to vote to create those districts.


6 posted on 09/01/2012 6:47:11 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: joanie-f

We are living the easiest life that man has ever enjoyed. Our life expectancy exceeds, by far, the average that humans have experienced throughout history...and listen to us bitch. Yes, many of us are shallow and short-sighted. But it is the individual that is to blame...or not. Happiness occurs between the ears, make of life what you will.


7 posted on 09/01/2012 6:47:19 PM PDT by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: ClearCase_guy

That pushes the limit of the politically possible, unfortunately. To go on a diet for ten years and by it lose a third of your weight seems feeble. But anything much more drastic and the bums will revolt and kill you.


8 posted on 09/01/2012 6:49:25 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (let me ABOs run loose, lew (or is that lou?))
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To: joanie-f
Our biggest issue is we have justified the evolution of our tolerance to apathy in the name of not offending anyone. We have tolerated the growth of government (or loss of liberty), tolerated the criminalization of our national heritage and adopted foreign rule (including Islamic law).

Think back to the 1500's, imagine the courage, determination and self reliance it took to travel here with nothing but your own wits. Where did it go?
Imagine if we were faced with the same Revolutionary situation as the 1700's. Would we/could we do it?
9 posted on 09/01/2012 6:53:18 PM PDT by vet7279
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To: joanie-f
(1) our dramatic loss of personal liberty, (2) the erosion of our national sovereignty, and (3) the threat of radical Islam to our very survival as a people.

All three of these have much to do with the economic malaise the Obama administration (and Bush before Obama) has caused in America. A weak America is a vulnerable America. Getting the economy on the right track BY DEFINITION, means a drastic cut in government spending and taxation. This begins to right the issues of personal liberty, national sovereignty, and threats to our country.

Don't take your eye off the ball. Obama wants and loves Big Government. Big Government is the cause of big economic woes. We defeat Obama by by hammering on his sad record of national financial and economic disaster. And by cutting government spending and taxes, we become an economically strong nation again. A strong America can handle those three problems you listed.

10 posted on 09/01/2012 6:55:37 PM PDT by PapaNew
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To: joanie-f

11 posted on 09/01/2012 6:57:55 PM PDT by Emperor Palpatine (I need a good stiff drink. How 'bout you?)
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To: ClearCase_guy

I’ve read your and the other comments to this post.

Either you and most of your fellow commenters did not read this post or you are blithering idiots. The comments had nothing to do with the essence of the post.


12 posted on 09/01/2012 6:58:27 PM PDT by No_Way_A_Liberal
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To: HiTech RedNeck
To go on a diet for ten years and by it lose a third of your weight seems feeble.

With respect, that mis-states the situation.

Obama has had 3 years of annual deficits of $1.5T. That's $6T is deficits, total US debt of $15T. If we go on a diet of $50B a year for 10 years, then, at best, we lose $500B, or about 2% of the debt.

The diet analogy of like have 50 extra pounds, dieting for 10 years, and ending up being only 49 pounds over weight. And doing that AS A PLAN. That was the GOAL. Let's call it victory.

13 posted on 09/01/2012 6:58:55 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (ua)
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To: No_Way_A_Liberal

If the government were starved for cash, it could not be tyrannical, our traditional way of life would be restored. And if the government would just back off, we could be energy independent and Islam would become insignificant.


14 posted on 09/01/2012 7:01:46 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (ua)
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To: joanie-f

Self reliance will actually become even more important as the governmement expands its size and power and reach into our personal lives. Like an an enormous parasite eating its host, the government will cause the private sector to shrink, resulting in wealth contraction. Although the welfare dependent and favored union classes might see more relative income re-distribution, the total pie will shrink and everyone will have less. People will need to become better at fixing things, growing things, and defending themselves.


15 posted on 09/01/2012 7:03:15 PM PDT by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est; zero sera dans l'enfer bientot)
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To: ClearCase_guy

No just lay off the ones at the irs and epa, ect and pay the congress for one months work .thats all they really do and we dont need them the rest of the year.


16 posted on 09/01/2012 7:05:39 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: vet7279
I couldn't agree more. That is precisely why I referred to the pioneers moving west in small covered wagons at the beginning of the article. We have fallen so far from that kind of rugged individualism, and it is that fall that has resulted in the beleaguered state of our republic today.

We're a nation of whiners who, for the most part, have no clue regarding the personal courage and monumental sacrifice that were the essence of life in the early part of our republic's history. We complain about 'essentials' that our forebears did without, while we ignore those genuine essentials (liberty, sovereignty, the rule of law, free markets ... ) that created the propsperity that has for so long spoiled us into accepting affluence, apathy and indifference as a way of life.

17 posted on 09/01/2012 7:05:41 PM PDT by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: joanie-f

You are absolutely right! Good post.


18 posted on 09/01/2012 7:06:51 PM PDT by Em and Brets Mum ("Lips that speak knowledge are a rare jewel." - Proverbs 20:15)
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To: joanie-f

1 and 2 quite agree.

3 not so much. You are mixing up intentions and capabilities.

Radical Islamists have every intent of destroying America. They have, however, no capability of doing so, and no realistic scenario by which they can acquire such capability.

What is the mechanism by which you think Islam will destroy us as a people?


19 posted on 09/01/2012 7:07:49 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (Perception wins all the battles. Reality wins all the wars.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Maybe we should take his retirement pay to help get some of that back and maybe any new accounts he has when he leaves office


20 posted on 09/01/2012 7:08:12 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: dalebert

My congressman introduced legislation that would require he and his colleagues to spend no less than 20 days in their districts. Naturally his colleagues decided they’re too busy spending money to do something like that.


21 posted on 09/01/2012 7:08:17 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Well, Uncle Sam does need to come closer to losing a third of the debt over a decade. Let states manage their own affairs, as they can compete for residents. It’s not possible to do that when there is only one Uncle Sam.

If I were king, I would come up with a nannydom rating — unproductive or antiproductive meddling — for every US government effort, and start cutting if not eliminating the nanniest programs first. That is hurting the ability of the people to prosper. A prosperous people would furnish more absolute revenue in taxes — the familiar Laffer curve peak.


22 posted on 09/01/2012 7:09:22 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (let me ABOs run loose, lew (or is that lou?))
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Can’t argue with that!


23 posted on 09/01/2012 7:10:37 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (ua)
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To: cripplecreek

Well as Mr.Eastwood said..they work for us...Maybe we should remind them.


24 posted on 09/01/2012 7:13:06 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: gorush

Because our lives are becoming void of the things that make life worth living. Good carpeting, great food, and a nice car, don’t feed the soul, it doesn’t replace the sense of being a conquered tribe, a disappearing people as we watch centuries of hard earned advancement and growth, turned into looted husks, and burned out shells, all to be forgotten soon.

I would rather be living in poverty in the past when American eyes glittered with the meaning and the hope of life, with national pride, with faith in their fellow American and a spiritual awareness that we were a special people, and that it was our time in history, and that we were part of a culture that was literally marching to the stars, and that we could save the less free, the non-westernized corners of the world, not that we would be colonized, and eventually erased by them.


25 posted on 09/01/2012 7:14:06 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Aug. 27, 2012-Mitt Romney said his views on abortion are more lenient than the Republican Platform)
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To: dalebert
Maybe we should remind them.

Looks to me like most FReepers are busy showing them that we'll do whatever we're told.
26 posted on 09/01/2012 7:17:33 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Sherman Logan
What is the mechanism by which you think Islam will destroy us as a people?

There are two ways in which Islam could bring America to her knees:

(1) Through the acquisition of chemical/biological/nulcear agents/weapons -- all of which can be brought across our porous borders. There is no need for strategic weaponry to deliver these mass destructive agents.

(2) Political correctness consistently prevents us from discussing the potentially devastating effects of Muslim infiltration of our society. But all we need do is take a serious look at England, France and the rest of Europe to see where our future lies. We, as Americans, have a short attention span. To radical Islam, a hundred years is the blink of an eye, as long as their goals are eventually met.

27 posted on 09/01/2012 7:18:57 PM PDT by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: cripplecreek

Sorry...I make all my own decisions. My mom told me to.


28 posted on 09/01/2012 7:19:40 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: ansel12

Amen.


29 posted on 09/01/2012 7:21:47 PM PDT by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: Emperor Palpatine
Thanks (and love the movie). :)
30 posted on 09/01/2012 7:23:19 PM PDT by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: ansel12

Better a free poor man than a rich man in chains.


31 posted on 09/01/2012 7:27:01 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: joanie-f

I think “Kane” is the greatest movie ever made.

People are still trying to figure out how Welles got some of the shots he did.


32 posted on 09/01/2012 7:29:35 PM PDT by Emperor Palpatine (I need a good stiff drink. How 'bout you?)
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To: Emperor Palpatine
I think “Kane” is the greatest movie ever made.

Agreed. I've probably seen it a dozen times.

33 posted on 09/01/2012 7:31:23 PM PDT by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: ClearCase_guy

What about skyrocketing economic growth? I’m in the sportfish market and we are projecting 30 to 50% growth year over year the next 10 years if we can just get predictability in the tax code. If the socialists knew how much income would be created by a flat tax or national sales tax they would crawl up a gnats ass to make it happen.


34 posted on 09/01/2012 7:35:26 PM PDT by liberty or death
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To: ansel12

>>I would rather be living in poverty in the past

That’s the funny thing about “poverty” in modern America. The poor today live with more luxuries than I had as a child in a 1970’s middle class family with a blue collar dad and stay-at-home mom. Even with Jimmy Carter’s malaise, we were happy with what we had.


35 posted on 09/01/2012 7:38:04 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: joanie-f
The two are intertwined. A cursory look at Alexander Hamilton’s Report On Manufactures shows that the two cannot be separated.
Not only the wealth, but the independence and security of a country, appear to be materially connected with the prosperity of manufactures. Every nation, with a view to those great objects, ought to endeavor to possess within itself all the essentials of national supply. These comprise the means of subsistence, habitation, clothing and defense.
Therefore, if the economic problems are not solved, neither will the problems of defense of the country from enemies both without and within.

For the record, World War II’s cost to the USA in 2012 dollars was about $4.5 trillion. And we had our means of subsistence, habitation, clothing and defense contained within ourselves. Quite a different situation today. Not saying that it cannot be reversed, but another factor that is also different from today is the remarkable faithlessness of the general populace compared to that generation, albeit absent in a lot of the leadership; but that lack thereof in the leadership did “trickle down” to use a term that the liberals like to deride. All lessons need to be learned . . . none can be ignored.
36 posted on 09/01/2012 7:38:41 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Sherman Logan

What is the mechanism by which you think Islam will destroy us as a people?
///
the Muslim Brotherhood, has laid this out,
in very detailed specific plans,
that were captured in law enforcement raids.
(and i’ve personally heard similar things,
INSIDE the masjid)
-
i have links (mostly from others like Bayouranger),
to this, in my profile.
-
and France alone, has about 10 million Muslims,
living at taxpayer expense, in what are virtually independent Muslim colonies.
seems like the plan is working pretty well.


37 posted on 09/01/2012 7:39:44 PM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Sherman Logan

Don’t say “no capability”. Especially since Iran is building their nuclear umbrella with complete impunity, and Hezbollah has been sneaking over the Mexican border with equal impunity for ages.


38 posted on 09/01/2012 7:40:20 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: joanie-f

ABC weaponry can certain do great damage. Though deploying them effectively is not really that easy.

But your claim was not that they would hurt us, but that they would destroy us as a people. Even a dozen nukes set off in our major cities could not come close to “destroying” us, not even to the extent of defeating us militarily.

It would no doubt piss us off, and Islamists around the world would quickly discover that their major military asset has been our unwillingness to be “mean.”

In this regard, I recommend “Caliphate,” a dystopic novel by Tom Kratman, where this is essentially what has happened. It doesn’t turn out well for the ragheads.

http://www.tomkratman.com/asod.html

The single method by which they could, in theory, destroy our society is by developing a true super-plague biological weapon. But it of course would also destroy their societies.

Muslims are infiltrating our society, and many of them have evil intent. But it is also a fact that many of their young people are seduced by our society, making any inter-generational conquest problematic.

In any case, Muslims cannot conquer us unless we quite allow them to. IOW, they aren’t capable of murdering us, although we are quite capable of committing suicide.

A. Lincoln at the age of 28: “ At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.”

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/lyceum.htm

If Abe was correct, as I firmly believe, then it is foolish to waste effort obsessing about imaginary external threats. Our problems are internal, as are their solutions.


39 posted on 09/01/2012 7:42:01 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (Perception wins all the battles. Reality wins all the wars.)
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To: liberty or death
The very idea that someone is successful by their own ingenuity and hard work is anathema to socialists.They will do everything in their power to ruin such people even if they themselves are harmed in the process.
40 posted on 09/01/2012 7:42:34 PM PDT by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: Olog-hai

They have no capability to “destroy us as a people.”

That would require at minimum hundreds of accurately delivered nukes, and quite probably thousands. Even then, the counter-strike really would destroy them.

They don’t have hundreds or thousands of nukes, much less the ability to deliver them accurately. Unless you think the USA would surrender to al Quaeda if we lost 5 or 10 cities?


41 posted on 09/01/2012 7:45:33 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (Perception wins all the battles. Reality wins all the wars.)
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To: Elendur

I’m sure they have plans. As did the Nazis and the commies.

Plans are not always realistic mechanisms for conquest.

Personally, I had planned to retire at 35 with $100M.

Didn’t quite work out that way. :)


42 posted on 09/01/2012 7:48:15 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (Perception wins all the battles. Reality wins all the wars.)
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To: liberty or death
The socialists don’t care about prosperity. They want power. If they wanted prosperity, they’d abandon socialism. Think of the socialists as being just like O’Brien from Nineteen Eighty-Four . . .
The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended—perhaps they even believed—that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?
The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended—perhaps they even believed—that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal.
43 posted on 09/01/2012 7:50:08 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Sherman Logan

I see you’re not thinking as a terrorist. If the object is terror, then outright genocide doesn’t serve the purpose.

The Twelvers in Iran merely wish to start the global chaos; after all, they believe that the Mahdi will come back to save the faithful Muslims out of it and that divine armies will come and clean up the unbelievers by scooping them up and hurling them into Jahannam.


44 posted on 09/01/2012 7:52:23 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: liberty or death
The socialists don’t care about prosperity. They want power. If they wanted prosperity, they’d abandon socialism. Think of the socialists as being just like O’Brien from Nineteen Eighty-Four . . .
The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended—perhaps they even believed—that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?
The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended—perhaps they even believed—that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal.
45 posted on 09/01/2012 7:53:23 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
I don't see that Hamilton's observations, as brilliant as they are, are necessarily applicable today.

My three crises would certainly be better addressed if the general economy were in better shape. Yet it is not an economic issue that is preventing us from sealing our borders. It is not an purely an economic issue that is causing us to run up this debt or prevent businesses from hiring. And it is not an economic issue that is preventing us from facing down Islam, but instead emboldening them.

It is the progressive mentality that is purposefully causing all three crises.

The progressives who are in charge see as their crusade the goal of bringing America into parity with the rest of the world, and the economy be damned. Hamilton could never have envisioned such a skewed and self-destructive leadership position. He lived in an era in which it was understood that a nation would strive not to be dependent on other nations for the nuts and bolts of society and its defense. It never would have occurred to him that the leadership of America would have at its disposal, for example, the ability for this republic to be completely energy independent -- and yet chose not to be.

We fix the economy by fixing the leadership. By electing leaders who, put simply, want what's best for America. And time is of the essence. We cannot much longer survive open borders, and allowing our enemies to gain the upper hand. There is a tipping point beyong which a healthy economy will seem irrelevant.

The degree that our sovereignty is at risk, and the degree that we are vulnerable to Islam or any other potential enemy is directly proportional to the success of the progressive agenda, with or without a healthy economy.

46 posted on 09/01/2012 8:01:29 PM PDT by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: Olog-hai

Once again, I was responding to the claim that radical Islamists will “destroy us as a nation.”

You are quite correct that they would use nukes on us in a heartbeat.

However, one nuke, or twenty, or a hundred, would not “destroy us as a people.” Not unless we give up, which admittedly is possible. But then that would be suicide, not murder.

You are also correct that Twelvers and other RIFs don’t expect to conquer us, they expect Jesus and the Mahdi to do that.

If the divine armies really show up, I will cheerfully admit I was wrong, and they did have a mechanism to destroy us.

I don’t expect that to happen.

Let’s take possibly your worst-case scenario.

Six Iranian bombs smuggled into USA and detonated in six cities. Probable loss of life <1M. But let’s bump that, for sake of argument, to 10M. Out of 300M. About twice the percentage we lost in the Civil War.

Is that going to “destroy us as a people?”

What do you think the most likely response would be in this country to such an attack, given the response we saw (initially) to 3000 murdered on 9/11? Do you really think America would surrender?


47 posted on 09/01/2012 8:06:27 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (Perception wins all the battles. Reality wins all the wars.)
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To: joanie-f

You don’t explain how to get out of it without reverting to Hamilton’s strategy, though. It is indeed all intertwined.

And I daresay that the evisceration of our manufacturing base certainly has served the progressive agenda, if by that the removal of the most powerful enemy of worldwide communism has to be effected. The War of Independence exposed our utter dependence on outside allies that could rapidly turn to enemies; Hamilton highlighted the urgency of moving away from that dependency as rapidly as possible.


48 posted on 09/01/2012 8:07:01 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Sherman Logan

Surrender, no. Get thrown into chaos, possibly and perhaps probably. And it wouldn’t necessarily be all nuclear detonations. If the USA turns on itself, then we would be doing the work for the terrorists after all. They have had several decades to strategize over this, after all.

Not to mention, they aren’t our only enemies.


49 posted on 09/01/2012 8:10:11 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: joanie-f

Good post joanie-f.

Good to see you posting too. It’s been awhile. ‘Pod.


50 posted on 09/01/2012 8:12:16 PM PDT by sauropod (Only two of God's creatures can employ the term "we": newspaper editors and men with tapeworms-Hayes)
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