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$83,046 For A 3 Hour Hospital Visit - Why Are Hospital Bills So Outrageous?
TEC ^ | 09/08/2012 | Michael Snyder

Posted on 09/08/2012 11:04:18 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

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1 posted on 09/08/2012 11:04:27 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

WHY?? Because allthe ILLEGALS that have no insurance uses them for EVERYTHING and they are NEVER asked to pay a CENT!!!


2 posted on 09/08/2012 11:09:24 AM PDT by Ann Archy ( ABORTION...the HUMAN Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: SeekAndFind

A friend who is in medical billing says its all “software.”

Costs are assigned to procedures. An accounting program that does a straight calculation of costs plus depreciation, profit, etc... will come out with such ridiculously high outputs

Of course, no one ever actually pays that. Other layers of the accounting and billing software then have the actual agreed charges for insurance companies, Medicaid, etc...


3 posted on 09/08/2012 11:10:08 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: SeekAndFind

It’s cost shifting - her bill is higher to pay for those who do not pay.


4 posted on 09/08/2012 11:11:46 AM PDT by tbw2
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To: SeekAndFind

Let the government fix it. They really know how to turn businesses around.


5 posted on 09/08/2012 11:12:46 AM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds. A pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: SeekAndFind

One change fixes it all. Loser pays and the suing attorney has a 33% stake in the suit.


6 posted on 09/08/2012 11:13:47 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (ABO 2012)
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To: SeekAndFind
I have a very simple answer, and a very simple solution.

The reason for these costs is: third party payer

The solution is easier: pay for your own normal costs, but maintain catastrophic insurance... and if everybody had to pull it out of their pockets, they would know the true costs and raise hell...

jmho...

7 posted on 09/08/2012 11:17:19 AM PDT by WVKayaker (I'm more than happy to be Obama's "enemy of the week" - Sarah Palin)
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To: EQAndyBuzz

Strict loser pays is a horrible system. It’s essentially a shield against suit for anyone with deep pockets. In Texas, we’ve done it right. If you lose a lawsuit AND it’s deemed to have been frivolous, loser pays. If you lose a lawsuit and it’s not frivolous, meaning that a trial was deemed legitimately necessary to weigh the merits, then the loser pays nothing, as it should be.


8 posted on 09/08/2012 11:20:21 AM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: WVKayaker

When the government got involved with Medicaid and Medicare and started messing with market forces, that’s when it all went downhill.


9 posted on 09/08/2012 11:20:31 AM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: Ann Archy

Agreed..my husband is going in for outpatient plastic surgery on Monday to remove 4 skin cancer lesions..he’s had skin cancer before but last time a dermatologist removed & insurance covered but this time since plastic surgery involved, $1200 out of pocket. Using plastic surgeon this time because 2 are located on his face.We confirmed that they’re billing as medical rather than cosmetic & they basically said it’s the insurance on why cost is so high..


10 posted on 09/08/2012 11:21:29 AM PDT by rainee
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To: SeekAndFind

Because those of us who can pay subsidize those who don’t as well as drugs for the world.

US drug consumers pay for poor around the world to get drugs cheaper

sad irony...most can’t afford even that we subsidize

that and because health insurance is now medical care period when it used to be just for major medical


11 posted on 09/08/2012 11:21:41 AM PDT by wardaddy (this white hair don't cover up my redneck......)
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To: SeekAndFind

IMHO, why the high bills

- lawyer tax - having to pay the dr’s liability insurnce
- illegal tax - pay for the illegals who rack up medical bills


12 posted on 09/08/2012 11:23:12 AM PDT by CORedneck
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To: SeekAndFind

One of the big problems is lack of transparency on pricing. It would be like if walked into a McDonald’s where there no prices on the board and they rang you up for a $500 Big Mac after you ordered. Nobody asks how much will this cost before they ask for a procedure nor do hospitals post any prices for treatments so people can make rational care decisions.


13 posted on 09/08/2012 11:23:23 AM PDT by garbanzo (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine)
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To: rainee; Travis McGee
a friend of mine used that chemo cream for pre melanoma lesions, they didn't want to cut fearing scarring

it soaks in and then hits all abnormal skin cells over the whole body

it is amazing stuff but makes ya sick as hell and the lesions go bananas...looks like post Nagasaki burns everywhere there is anything

it is a reminder to go ahead and get pre cancerous little basal cells zotted first chance before they grow and it gets deadly or expensive

good luck

my buddy was a charter captain in the Gulf for decades and had skin tone like a Swede..ripe for all that skin stuff

I had a blue mole on my shoulder last month, my wife's botox doc just froze it off and cultured it...nothing

14 posted on 09/08/2012 11:26:56 AM PDT by wardaddy (this white hair don't cover up my redneck......)
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To: dfwgator
When the government got involved with Medicaid and Medicare and started messing with market forces, that’s when it all went downhill.

What you said! Everything they touch turns to crap.

15 posted on 09/08/2012 11:26:56 AM PDT by Marathoner (DNC: Fluke, Clinton, Warren: The slut, the pimp and paleface)
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To: SeekAndFind

I always just assumed the costs were so high because so many people, legally and illegally here are required to be given medical care, and have no intention of paying for it.


16 posted on 09/08/2012 11:32:31 AM PDT by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Since most patients do not pay out of pocket there is surprise but little outrage when they get the bill. Whether it be insurance or govt the third party payer system creates no incentive to hold down costs and even encourages their growth. If you look at medicine the only areas of real cost competition are elective cosmetic surgery, lasik surgery, and veterinary medicine. Why does competition exist in these? Because there are few if any third party payment systems in these areas, and no govt payments.


17 posted on 09/08/2012 11:34:06 AM PDT by xkaydet65
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To: SeekAndFind
The 'World Health Organization' ranks the countries of the world in general health, and while our per capita health cost is double the next higher country, we rank 72nd in general health.
18 posted on 09/08/2012 11:34:15 AM PDT by layman (Card Carrying Infidel)
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To: SeekAndFind
95% of that bill was for the anti-venom shots...
19 posted on 09/08/2012 11:36:46 AM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: SeekAndFind

Many years ago, my daughter had an emergency appendectomy. I accused the hospital of performing the surgery at the civic auditorium....... cuz their facility wasn’t big enough to hold all the people who sent me bills.


20 posted on 09/08/2012 11:41:39 AM PDT by umgud (No Rats, No Rino's)
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To: SeekAndFind

That bill of $83/k is sooo outrageous off the charts. Wouldn’t pay a penny of it until it is reworked. Earlier this year I had an ER bill of $3.5/k for a 1.5 hour visit.
I contested as much of it as possible to chop a few hundred dollars off. Still feel like they chumped me out of big $.
All I had was BP checks and vitals, IV, blood for labs, CT exam and some pain meds to ease passage of kidney stone.


21 posted on 09/08/2012 11:46:19 AM PDT by tflabo (Truth or Tyranny)
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To: SeekAndFind

Insurance companies and lawyers.


22 posted on 09/08/2012 11:47:04 AM PDT by TigersEye (dishonorabledisclosure.com - OPSEC (give them support))
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To: SeekAndFind

Last summer, I spent a few days at the Cleveland Clinic...My bill was $387,000.


23 posted on 09/08/2012 11:47:10 AM PDT by mom4melody
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To: tflabo

That stinks. A $6 dollar bottle of Passwan would have stopped the pain in an hour and dissolved the stones in about 24.


24 posted on 09/08/2012 11:49:42 AM PDT by TigersEye (dishonorabledisclosure.com - OPSEC (give them support))
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To: SeekAndFind

I dunno. The only thing I know is that my last 3-day ER stay at the hospital was $10,000. $5,000 for the hospital stay and $5,000 for a full body MRI. I had no clue that a MRI was so costly. And that same year I had the test where they run a camera through your arteries to check for blocks. I am just thankful for my insurance coverage and I wasn’t out of pocket for all those costs. I had the best of care, and I certainly would like to keep it that way.


25 posted on 09/08/2012 11:51:54 AM PDT by RowdyFFC
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To: mom4melody

RE: My bill was $387,000.

How was the bill paid?

If you paid off everything, you must be among the 1% of this country...


26 posted on 09/08/2012 11:52:11 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (bOTRT)
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To: SeekAndFind

1. Give the patient enough time to tell him possible diagnoses and explain the tests that seem a) necessary and b) could possibly be helpful
And allow the patient to decide which he wishes to pay for.

This would mean NO FRIVOLOUS LAWSUITS for malpractice — will definitely need tort reform for this.

But I’d like to see the patient in the driver’s seat, rather than the doctor’s CYA. Now you will be undergoing MRI’s for tummy aches in case it could theoretically be a tumor. Allow the patient to turn down tests if he doesn’t wish them and still be able to be seen by the doctor, as long as doc has given his advice. Doctors should be required only to INFORM and not control the decisions.

And if you can’t prove you are here in this country legally, resident, tourist, or citizen, forget it. No treatment other than immediate life saving. Die on the doorstep. You shouldn’t be here. I can’t expect Antarctica to let me live just because I want to be there in a bikini!


27 posted on 09/08/2012 11:53:01 AM PDT by Yaelle
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To: SeekAndFind

A small local hospital had a banner on the front “80% off for cash”. What does that tell you?


28 posted on 09/08/2012 11:57:20 AM PDT by EandH Dad (sleeping giants wake up REALLY grumpy)
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To: Melas

That works for me.


29 posted on 09/08/2012 11:57:40 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (ABO 2012)
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To: SeekAndFind

Simple besides the theft; we are each paying for about 5 illegals.


30 posted on 09/08/2012 11:58:44 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: SeekAndFind

First, insurance is a big part of the problem . They way we use medical insurance as a price control, hospitals charge huge amounts knowing the insurance has negotiated a much lower price — but those without insurance get confronted with the bill. If you fight it, you’ll get a lower price.

The cost from the manufacturer for this drug? “Hospital markups are the other driving force in the cost of Anascorp. Rare Disease Therapeutics sells the drug for $3,500 to a distributor, which then charges hospitals $3,780.”

This is expensive, but most is the hospital markup.

The drug company spends the same amount to get this drug through the FDA as any other drug. But they only sell a few thousand doses a year — so they have to spread the regulation costs, which can be millions, across a very small number of sales.

The FDA also charges a large amount of money to this drug, even though there are almost no sales — FDA gets funding by taxes on the drugs it regulates.

But in the end, this is what insurance has to be about — paying for the drugs that HAVE to cost $3,000 a dose, because they sell so few doses. And this is why you should always have health insurance, unless you are independently wealthy.

And why in a sane world, we’d be allowed to buy our own health insurance with high deductables.

The people who balk at paying $80,000 for a drug that just saved hteir life — would they be upset if their house burned down and the construction company wanted to charge $200,000 to rebuild it? Of course not. They have insurance that covers it.

And if they didn’t have insurance, they would be out the $200,000. That’s why they buy insurance.


31 posted on 09/08/2012 12:05:14 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: SeekAndFind

Patients have been patterned somehow to feel it’s not their business or responsibility to consider costs before buying medical services, because:
1) they assume someone else (insurance co., Uncle Sam) is paying; and,
2) they are often in medical duress when the service is needed, and are focused on surviving.
3) the itemizing systems make it hard to understand, and hide the magnitude of the rip-off by making all the components seem just a bit outrageous.
4) they want things they can’t afford.

If you don’t want socialism, shoulder responsibility. People should review their medical bills, getting comparable cost information, and calling BS on ridiculous claims — just as you would if a mechanic tried to charge you $80,000 to change the oil in your car. Paying actual costs plus reasonable overhead and profit for anything you buy is fair and proper. But if someone wants to charge you $6,000 each for an medical item that you believe costs them $100 all in, offer $125, and ask for the same explanation that they would be making to a judge (if they can make a compelling logical argument for $6,000, you should pay it). If you have private insurance, advise you company when bills look fraudulent, and request in writing a complete review and explanation.

That said, I suspect many “outrageous cost anecdotes” grossly inflate the amounts charged by oversimplifying what was actually included. State troopers don’t haul people away in cuffs for overdue bills — that is either total hoo-ey, or there was a lot more to the story than reported.


32 posted on 09/08/2012 12:06:57 PM PDT by Chewbarkah
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To: SeekAndFind
Today, about 18 percent of U.S. GDP goes toward health care.

In 1994 when we were fighting off Hillarycare they said it was 16%. So in the last twenty or so years, it has not increased much, especially given the concurrent aging of the population and our increasing expectations of the system.

Today we perform an abundance of hip and knee replacements eg, which were not nearly so common twenty or thirty years ago, not to mention organ transplants. We are accustomed to the routine availability and use of high tech instruments, often less accessible or unavailable in other, more 'economical' countries, even though they cost a fortune to the hospitals buying and operating them.

Is it worth a bit more of the GDP to be able to get an MRI within hours, on demand, rather than waiting six weeks as in some other countries I know? or for thousands of people to be able to walk, on new knees or hips, than to be confined to a wheelchair? Obama says no, it's not worth it to him for you to have these options. I say yes. If only because I might need them one day.

It is time to admit that the "crisis in healthcare costs" is merely another of the many manufactured "crises" of the Left, designed to drive people to the government for a solution. I believe few if any of the horror stories are fully accurate, and I don't think healthcare costs too much.

Pardon me if I don't want to go Forward! to scarcity and rationing along with the Usurper and the leftwing foundations who produce this dreck.

33 posted on 09/08/2012 12:07:56 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: SeekAndFind

The entire cost of my birth in 1964 (Doctor, hospital room, delivery, medicines etc) was around $85.


34 posted on 09/08/2012 12:08:50 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: SeekAndFind

Torte reform
Govt regulations
torte reform
insurance companies
torte reform


35 posted on 09/08/2012 12:20:06 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: SeekAndFind

It is due to Gov’t regulation and gov’t method of paying for healthcare. Take on of those $88,000 hospital bill and Medicare will pay about 35% or about $30,000. Medicaid will pay about 10% to 20%, or about $10,000 to $15,000. Commercial Insurance will pay about $35,000 to $40,000. about 15% to 20% of the population will not pay anything due to either being a bad debt or legally required free care. Probably less than 10% of the population gets stuck with having to pay full charges with no discounts. This is required by Medicare regulation that all payors get charged the same price for the same service. Discounts are allowed but there must be a justifiiable economic reason for giving a discount to a broad classification of patients, otherwise it is classified a fraud. It is illegal for a Dr. of Hospital to not charge a patient for their deductibles or coinsurance. You cannot give free or discounted care unless the patient meets pre determined financial criteria.

Hospitals are doing what is required to survive and continue to provide care is a very highly regulated industry.

If you do not like your hospital bill, go talk to your congress person and tell them to get the gov’t out of healthcare while you still have a chance to do so.


36 posted on 09/08/2012 12:21:01 PM PDT by dirtymac (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country. Really NOW!!!!)
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To: SeekAndFind

1) Anascorp is an orphan drug.. The mfg will never recover the costs of development.

2) Mexico didn’t pay a dime for the research.


37 posted on 09/08/2012 12:21:23 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (Viva Christo Rey)
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To: WVKayaker

I had a doctor tell me he couldn’t take cash payment, because some people will sue if they think cash payers get better care.

I paid $185,000 for an 8 day visit. Quite a bit more than the funeral I would have had otherwise and the nurses were cute!


38 posted on 09/08/2012 12:22:24 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: cripplecreek

RE: The entire cost of my birth in 1964 (Doctor, hospital room, delivery, medicines etc) was around $85.

Using the Inflation calculator here,

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

That would be about $591.00 in 2010.

How much does a normal baby delivery cost today?


39 posted on 09/08/2012 12:23:26 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (bOTRT)
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To: SeekAndFind

When the government started limiting the number of hospitals and medical schools and people started paying for insurance instead of out of pocket, and a bunch of other things.

Actually I vaguely remember an article at the Mises website that detailed some of this but I haven’t been to that site in ages.


40 posted on 09/08/2012 12:26:06 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: mom4melody

My wife had open heart surgery in May,2 weeks in the cardiac ICU after surgery.You don’t want to know what the total bill was.


41 posted on 09/08/2012 12:27:00 PM PDT by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: Ann Archy

Yes...definitely part of the problem. The solution that hospitals use is called “cost shifting,” and that is one reason for the high costs to insurers and the public. Otherwise, hospitals would have to close their doors.


42 posted on 09/08/2012 12:33:37 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Ann Archy

It used to be illegals were the reason but now, illegals and insurance companies never want to pay, so the billing is adjusted accordingly to force the uninsured citizen using hospital services to pay the bulk of expenses.


43 posted on 09/08/2012 12:33:45 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: SeekAndFind
Outlaw all health care insurance except catastrophic insurance with a $5000 deductible.

Problem solved.

44 posted on 09/08/2012 12:35:53 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: SeekAndFind
How much does a normal baby delivery cost today?

Seems like I've read that its in the $10,000 range these days.

Its no wonder Americans aren't having babies. In 64 it was a few weeks pay for my dad who was a garbage man at the time.
45 posted on 09/08/2012 12:37:57 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Insurance is a part of the problem. The rates they pay are significantly less than the list price but that alone will not solve the problem.

The govt regulations the healthcare industry has to comply with is truly amazing.


46 posted on 09/08/2012 12:38:56 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Health insurance didn’t come into widespread use till the 60s and 70s.


47 posted on 09/08/2012 12:40:10 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: driftdiver
The main problem is that people don't demand a verifiable itemized bill for health care expenses. They don't bother because if they have insurance they don't have to mess with it.

If they had to pay the first $5000, they would demand itemized bills that weren't just based on the fraudulent DRGs the government uses, which were never intended to be used for billing purposes.

48 posted on 09/08/2012 12:45:09 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: cripplecreek
Health insurance didn’t come into widespread use till the 60s and 70s.

Which explains why health care costs were only 5% of GDP in the 50s, but are almost 20% now.

49 posted on 09/08/2012 12:46:25 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Insurance paid the majority of the bill (I had open heart surgery for removal of a Myxoma tumor).

Some of the bill was written off by the Clinic because one of their doctors screwed up a routine heart cath so bad I required 3 additional surgeries to repair the damage, two months on a wound vac, and a visit from a home health nurse every other day for the duration of the wound vac.

And I’m still being seen by their vascular dept for that mess.


50 posted on 09/08/2012 12:50:18 PM PDT by mom4melody
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