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$83,046 For A 3 Hour Hospital Visit - Why Are Hospital Bills So Outrageous?
TEC ^ | 09/08/2012 | Michael Snyder

Posted on 09/08/2012 11:04:18 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

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To: SeekAndFind

Why? Because there is no effective market in health care, and there is inelastic demand for a great deal of health care which is provided by state-granted monopolies and oligopolies with unregulated prices. The best treatment for virtually every ailment, whether a drug or a medical device or sometimes even a surgical procedure if it requires specialized equipment, is sold under a grant of monopoly called a patent. All medical services are provided only by licensed physicians or licensed nurse-practioners — a state-created oligopoly which functions more like a monopoly because the notion of “reasonable and customary charges” masks price collusion.

The fact that there are socially desirable reasons for the monopolies and oligopolies (encouraging innovation and quality control) does not change the distortion they create in pricing. In other cases where there is a socially useful reason for granting a monopoly (not needing to make multiple easements for multiple companies to deliver water, electricity...) the state-granted monopoly, called a utility, has its rates regulated in the public interest.


51 posted on 09/08/2012 12:54:57 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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To: driftdiver
"Torte reform
Govt regulations
torte reform
insurance companies
torte reform"

What have you got against cakes?

52 posted on 09/08/2012 12:56:46 PM PDT by I am Richard Brandon
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To: umgud

My brother had an emergency appendectomy four weeks ago. He walked into the emergency room at 11:00 am, was diagnosed, had surgery, and released by 6:00 pm. Total bill — $22,500.

One of the huge cost drivers in health care is the number of people involved in health care who are paid by the system but not actually providing health care services directly to a patient. In a manufacturing environment, companies are constantly looking for ways to minimize direct costs and eliminate “indirect” costs. In the current US system we are attacking direct costs by reducing doctor pay while dramatically increasing the number of bureaucrats and administrators who add no value to the patient.

Think about Michelle Obama. She earned $317,000 per year as a Vice President of Community and External Affairs for a Chicago hospital. What value did she provide for the average patient seeking medical care at the hospital?


53 posted on 09/08/2012 1:00:41 PM PDT by Soul of the South
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To: SeekAndFind

DannyTN's Healthcare Prescription

To fix healthcare start with the following:
54 posted on 09/08/2012 1:02:04 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Melas

On top of Loser Pays, I would modify that with a contingency form of loser pays.

That ism the attorney is on a contingency whether your case wins or loses. So he gets 40% contingency if you both win, and is on the hook for 40% contingency of the ‘loser pays’ if you both lose.

Fair, after all, is fair.


55 posted on 09/08/2012 1:03:45 PM PDT by Ted Grant
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

The feds released 700 pages of clarification on one of their regs a couple weeks ago. In the next two months they will release a “mega-reg” which is expected to be thousands of pages.

This on top of everything else.

Hospitals have high fees because they have to make up for the regulations, lawsuits, and non-payers. Insurance companies add in a tremendous amount of overhead but they are not the only problem.

Yes people who don’t see their bill do tend to over use services, but that doesn’t impact hospital fees. The hospitals are required to use those DRGs.


56 posted on 09/08/2012 1:18:18 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: cripplecreek
The entire cost of my birth in 1964 (Doctor, hospital room, delivery, medicines etc) was around $85.

Dying'll cost you way more. ;^)

57 posted on 09/08/2012 1:21:41 PM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: SeekAndFind

If you are a private payer, negotiate.

Its not that the hospitals charge the government and insurers a lower rate, that is just what they get paid. Insurers mimic the government on payment rates.

Thus, the government has created a game, wherein you must inflate the bill to come close to getting paid. And guess what, it is illegal to charge different rates than what the charge is for Medicare.

So, if you are a private payer, arrange to have it discounted down, with a nod and a wink before hand, or go to a non-Medicare provider and negotiate a price beforehand.


58 posted on 09/08/2012 1:24:20 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

“This is expensive, but most is the hospital markup.”

you do understand that the hospital markups on things is to pay for:

first and foremost: liability insurance

the pharmacist/techs who dispense and deliver the drugs to the area you are located in

the nurses who administer the drugs

the technicians who draw your blood and run the machines to do the tests

the x-ray/ct scan/ mri techs who perform the procedures

the housekeepers who clean your room

the maintenance men who keep everything mechanical/electrical working safely

the kitchen workers who prepare and serve your meals

the electricity, gas and water used

i know there are probably a thousand more things i haven’t listed that are necessary for things to function while you are in hospital/er that you are not billed for

i know you probably think that is what your daily room rate is for, but that rate barely covers the nurses’ salary, esp in icu/er where the nurse patient ratio is low


59 posted on 09/08/2012 1:35:32 PM PDT by SendShaqtoIraq
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To: CharlesWayneCT

“This is expensive, but most is the hospital markup.”

you do understand that the hospital markups on things is to pay for:

first and foremost: liability insurance

the pharmacist/techs who dispense and deliver the drugs to the area you are located in

the nurses who administer the drugs

the technicians who draw your blood and run the machines to do the tests

the x-ray/ct scan/ mri techs who perform the procedures

the housekeepers who clean your room

the maintenance men who keep everything mechanical/electrical working safely

the kitchen workers who prepare and serve your meals

the electricity, gas and water used

i know there are probably a thousand more things i haven’t listed that are necessary for things to function while you are in hospital/er that you are not billed for

i know you probably think that is what your daily room rate is for, but that rate barely covers the nurses’ salary, esp in icu/er where the nurse patient ratio is low


60 posted on 09/08/2012 1:40:41 PM PDT by SendShaqtoIraq
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To: SeekAndFind

Cost shifting: free care for the indigent, cheap drugs and medical devices for other countries, and high profit margins for US medical companies mean we “deep pockets” consumers get to carry the whole load. It can be fixed, but that will lead to a lot of squawking by traditional supporters of the Republican Party - our team doesn’t likely have the balls to get it done.


61 posted on 09/08/2012 1:45:25 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: SeekAndFind
Can a defense attorney, judge, or jury foreman be sued because a criminal they got acquitted in a trial commits another crime?

There must be some way to protect our doctors from the personal injury attorneys the same way we protect our judges, defense attorneys, and juries when they fail in their duty to put away dangerous criminals.

I'd start by eliminating all pain and suffering from medical suits. Unfortunately pain and suffering are part of the business. Furthermore, doctors are imperfect and shouldn't be expected to be. Infrequent and understandable human errors (i.e. misdiagnoses) should be tolerated by the system. However, if a doctor was truly incompetent or negligent, then he goes to jail or loses his license - but no transfer of millions to the injured. Only the cost of their care.

62 posted on 09/08/2012 2:05:21 PM PDT by LaserJock
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To: driftdiver
The hospitals are required to use those DRGs.

And my point was that the DRGs were never intended to be used for billing purposes, and are not accurate for such purposes.

Government does not care about accuracy. The less accuracy, the more they can pad the bill.

63 posted on 09/08/2012 2:14:07 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: cripplecreek

In 1971 it cost me $1500 for my son.


64 posted on 09/08/2012 2:18:12 PM PDT by Little Bill
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To: garbanzo
One of the big problems is lack of transparency on pricing. It would be like if walked into a McDonald’s where there no prices on the board and they rang you up for a $500 Big Mac after you ordered. Nobody asks how much will this cost before they ask for a procedure nor do hospitals post any prices for treatments so people can make rational care decisions.

Sometimes when you do ask, as my sister did, you are told it depends upon who your insurance company is.

I like your $500 Big Mac analogy and I'm certain it will come in handy for future discussions about this topic. Thanks. =o)

65 posted on 09/08/2012 2:35:40 PM PDT by arasina (So there.)
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To: PGR88
A friend who is in medical billing says its all “software.”

Real people program that software. Banning software won't bring prices down.

66 posted on 09/08/2012 3:35:04 PM PDT by BfloGuy (Without economic freedom, no other form of freedom can have material meaning.)
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To: Yaelle

#27 is great! i wish someone like you was in charge.


67 posted on 09/08/2012 3:48:40 PM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: SeekAndFind
Who gets the bill when some gang banger gets shot and spends weeks in the hospital and months in rehab.?

Does his momma get a bill for tens of thousands of dollars?

68 posted on 09/08/2012 3:56:47 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: TASMANIANRED
2) Mexico didn’t pay a dime for the research.

Anascorp was developed by a Mexican company called Instituto Bioclon.

1) Anascorp is an orphan drug.. The mfg will never recover the costs of development.

Anascorp had already been available for years in Mexico when it was brought to the US. So the maker, which is a for-profit company, must have been able to recover all their cost of development or they would not have made the drug.

69 posted on 09/08/2012 4:25:37 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: SeekAndFind

It says that patients are over charged by $10 billion every year. It also says the Americans spend $2.47 Trillion on medical care. 10 billion out of 2.47 trillion is not that much.


70 posted on 09/08/2012 4:34:29 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.)
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To: Ann Archy; SeekAndFind
WHY?? Because allthe ILLEGALS that have no insurance uses them for EVERYTHING and they are NEVER asked to pay a CENT!!!

Parkland Hospital in Dallas #1 in the nation for illegal immigrant births

Parkland handled 11,071 births last year to women who could not provide proof of U.S. citizenship - or 74 percent of the total 14,872 births at the hospital. Most of these women are believed to be in the country illegally.

It was the busiest hospital in the state for such births.

_______________________________________________________

Just think, that's over 1,000 illegal alien births, EVERY MONTH, at just one single hospital in Texas.

And Texas is a red state?

71 posted on 09/08/2012 4:39:32 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

DRG are used by medicare to pay the inpatient stays, outpatient er visits and surgery are paid by a different method, DRG’s are based on the diagnoses codes. sorry for being technical but that is how medicare is currently setup to pay, blame HHS


72 posted on 09/08/2012 9:23:03 PM PDT by markman46 (engage brain before using keyboard!!!)
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To: SeekAndFind

I was in the hospital in april, the hospital bill came to be about 33,000 my insurance paid 4,000 and I owed the hospital 1255.00, plus ambulance,paramedics,mri,ct, dr’s total came to be about 50,000 and I have to pay about 3,000 for everything.


73 posted on 09/08/2012 9:28:10 PM PDT by markman46 (engage brain before using keyboard!!!)
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To: hedgetrimmer

Good Grief....the UNINSURED are NOT paying the bulk!! That makes no sense. I guess you hate insurance companies....geesh.


74 posted on 09/09/2012 12:47:05 AM PDT by Ann Archy ( ABORTION...the HUMAN Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: driftdiver

EVERYTHING is based on what Medicare pays for.....that’s why the difference is so huge in what the insurance will pay and what the cost really is.


75 posted on 09/09/2012 12:48:55 AM PDT by Ann Archy ( ABORTION...the HUMAN Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: markman46
I am just pointing out that DRGs were never intended for billing purposes and do not reflect costs in any rational way.

But that's what the goobermint uses them for, because the last thing goobermint ever wants to be is honest, about anything.

76 posted on 09/09/2012 8:07:55 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: Ann Archy

To clarify, I hate the corporatist fascist relationship insurance companies have with the government.

It has help to destroy free enterprise and self governance in this country.


77 posted on 09/09/2012 11:08:21 AM PDT by artichokegrower
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