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Kan. GOP Sec. of State Moving on Obama Birther Nov. Ballot Challenge
Afro ^ | September 14, 2012 | Staff

Posted on 09/14/2012 6:03:33 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Less than two months before Election Day, a group of Kansas Republicans, led by a voter ID law advocate, is moving on a withdrawn challenge which may result in President Obama being removed from the ballot.

Secretary of State Kris Kobach, who has embraced forcing voters to produce ID at the polls, said Sept. 13 that he will preside over a Kansas Board of Objections Sept. 17 meeting where a Manhattan, Kans. veterinary professor Joe Montgomery, questioned Obama’s birthplace and the citizenship of his father.

Kobach said that the board is obligated to do a thorough review of the questions raised by Montgomery about Obama’s birth certificate and not make “a snap decision."

However, Montgomery on Sept 14 withdrew his objections, stating that the Kansas roots of Obama’s mother and grandparents, apparently in his opinion, satisfies the U.S. Constitution’s “natural-born citizen” requirement for the presidency,.

The president's mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, and maternal grandparents, Stanley and Madelyn Dunham, were Kansas natives.

The complaint withdrawal came after Kobach made requests to officials in Hawaii, Arizona and Mississippi for copies of the president’s birth records. The birth certificate controversy has been settled in those states and Obama is on those states’ ballots.

In spite of the withdrawal, Kobach said he nevertheless doesn’t believe the matter is dead. "I don't think it's a frivolous objection,” according to Kobach, an unofficial advisor to GOP presidential challenger Mitt Romney’s campaign. "I do think the factual record could be supplemented."

The objections board includes Attorney General Derek Schmidt and Lt. Gov. Jeff Colyer, both Republicans. Current polls indicate that in Kansas, Romney is the current favored candidate at this point in the presidential race.


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: arizona; birthcertificate; birthers; certifigate; hawaii; kansas; mississippi; naturalborncitizen; obama
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If even one state does this, the whole house of cards will start to tumble, IMO.
1 posted on 09/14/2012 6:03:37 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The complaint has been withdrawn by the Kansas citizen who brought it up.


2 posted on 09/14/2012 6:06:42 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Kobach said that the board is obligated to do a thorough review of the questions raised by Montgomery about Obama’s birth certificate and not make “a snap decision."

A "thorough review" would be to get Hawaii to send you a certified 'true and accurate' record along with it amendments, and truthfully vet Obama on the intent and meaning of the natural born citizen clause. Anything else is political game playing.

3 posted on 09/14/2012 6:11:55 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Kansas58

Looks like in this case it is a matter of be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. You just can’t make the space shuttle back up and land on the launch pad.


4 posted on 09/14/2012 6:13:56 PM PDT by mazda77 ("Defeating the Totalitarian Lie" By: Hilmar von Campe. Everybody should read it.)
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To: Red Steel
vet Obama on the intent and meaning of the natural born citizen

Did Obama wrote the Constitution?

5 posted on 09/14/2012 6:14:13 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"I do think the factual record could be supplemented."

The FACT that it has not be proven, THREE years into his Presidency is an open and shut case for Treason in high places. This country is worse than a Bannana Republic for credibility in Leadership, Law and Justice.

6 posted on 09/14/2012 6:18:10 PM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: nickcarraway

No nick, I’ll rephrase for you. The Founding Fathers of the US Constitution would not consider Obama a natural born citizen.


7 posted on 09/14/2012 6:22:41 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel; All
If Obama was born on US soil, he is a Natural Born Citizen.

Period.

There is absolutely no living legal authority, no Judge, no Elected Official, no Elector, no Immigration Attorney, no Member of Congress, and no Governor who disagrees with me on this point.

The Citizenship of the parents ONLY matters if the birth does not take place on American Soil.

This is the law.

PERIOD!

8 posted on 09/14/2012 6:27:34 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58
There is absolutely no living legal authority

So? The Founding Fathers agree with us.

PERIOD.

Traitor John Roberts is living and he threw the Founding Fathers under the bus. Traitor Roberts is still WRONG.

9 posted on 09/14/2012 6:32:37 PM PDT by Smokeyblue
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To: Red Steel; Red Badger

There seem to be mixed messages on this. My understanding is that a natural born citizen of the United States must have both a father and a mother who are naturalized citizens, thus making Obama ineligible. But . . . I am not so sure my understanding is in accord with legal reality.

Red Badger and I had a brief back and forth on this some weeks ago. Maybe he could elaborate or comment.


10 posted on 09/14/2012 6:32:53 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew (oboy)
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To: Kansas58
PERIOD!

BS! Your shouted opinion means squat.

PERIOD!

11 posted on 09/14/2012 6:34:16 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Smokeyblue

No, the Founders did NOT agree with you.

It is arrogant for you to claim otherwise.

You do not know what you are talking about.

Natural Born Citizen means Citizen at the moment of Birth, and NOTHING ELSE!

There are only two forms of Citizenship in the United States:

Natural Born

Naturalized

This is the law.


12 posted on 09/14/2012 6:35:09 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58
Are you saying Sheriff Arpaio is not a legal authority?
13 posted on 09/14/2012 6:36:31 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew (oboy)
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To: Kansas58
Nope. It's not.

PERIOD.

Although I'm sure Traitor Roberts will agree with you since he doesn't give a crap about the Constitution.

14 posted on 09/14/2012 6:38:39 PM PDT by Smokeyblue
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To: Fester Chugabrew

Herbert Hoover’s mother was born in Canada, although she may have been naturalized by the time of his birth. The previous poster is correct, however, that anyone born on American soil is an American, regardless of parentage. Even a child born outside the United States with an American parent is an American, as was the case with George Romney and John McCain.


15 posted on 09/14/2012 6:39:21 PM PDT by TroutFishingInAmerica ("I remember, with particular amusement, men in three-cornered hats, fishing in the dawn")
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To: MileHi
Land Mark Legal Foundation does not agree with you.

The Heritage Foundation does not agree with you.

Jay Sekulow and the ACLJ do not agree with you.

This STUPID theory is promoted by nut case, tin-foil-hat goobers who do not understand the law or legal opinions.

NOBODY is on your side, nobody at all.

This is a stupid fight and it makes conservatives look stupid.

Obama wants this fight, as he can WIN this fight!

16 posted on 09/14/2012 6:39:25 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Fester Chugabrew
You are mixing arguments.
Try to keep up.
The good Sheriff is talking about documents and he has many valid points.

I am stating, honestly and factually, that if Obama was born on U.S. Soil, he IS a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN!

17 posted on 09/14/2012 6:41:58 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: TroutFishingInAmerica

I will qualify your statement to say that I agree, based on the changing rules in force during our history.

The AGE of the parents, and their residence in the years prior to the birth, and years of residence here, does make a difference and the laws have changed several times.

Natural Born Citizen means Citizen at the Moment of Birth.

The laws for NBC on foreign soil can and have been changed, by Congress, several times.


18 posted on 09/14/2012 6:44:56 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58
There is absolutely no living legal authority, no Judge, no Elected Official, no Elector, no Immigration Attorney, no Member of Congress, and no Governor who disagrees with me on this point.

No "living" huh? Past US governments that of legal authority do disagree with you.

If Obama was born on US soil, he is a Natural Born Citizen. Period.

The Citizenship of the parents ONLY matters if the birth does not take place on American Soil.

This is the law.

PERIOD!


BS simpleton.

Not according to past US governments who were not into revisionist history, and who understood natural born and to the meaning and usage of the phrase "The Subject of the Jurisdiction Thereof" written in the 14th Amendment:

1874, The House Committee for Foreign Relations on the 14th Amendment.

Nework Times  March  29, 1874  House Foreign Rel citizens pg1, 1874 House Foreign Relations Committee  Bill pertaining to Citizenship under the 14th Amendment.

continued...

New York  Times House Foreign Relations Committee March,  29, 1874, 1874 House Foreign Relations Committee  Bill pertaining to Citizenship under the 14th Amendment. Newyork Times reported 30th March , 1874   Page 2 of 2


You think you can understand what should read above? I have have my doubt.

19 posted on 09/14/2012 6:47:21 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Kansas58

Obongo won’t get Kansas’ electoral votes anyway.


20 posted on 09/14/2012 6:48:39 PM PDT by Blogatron (Fire President Gilligan!!!)
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To: Kansas58
No, the Founders did NOT agree with you.

Nope, wrong again.

You do not know what you are talking about.

He knows more than you.

21 posted on 09/14/2012 6:50:10 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Kansas58
So says you.

No way the Founders meant for the offspring of illegals to be “natural born”. Nor the offspring of America hating foreigners.

I'll side with Vattel, the Founders and the author of the 14th amendment.

22 posted on 09/14/2012 6:50:15 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MileHi; All
Vattel is not at all controlling.

Blackstone had FAR more influence on the founders than the Frenchman, Vattel.

There are COUNTLESS cases that support my side of the argument.

Those that your side presents are NOT controlling, and you do not understand legal opinions if you think otherwise.

Yes, a person born of two US Parents on American Soil IS a NBC, however, that is NOT the only way to become an NBC!

NONE of your legal sources show otherwise.

This is why NO LIVING LEGAL AUTHORITY IS ON YOUR SIDE!

NONE

You have lost this argument.

It has been lost for all time.

This fight is OVER!

Natural Born Citizen means Citizen at Birth and nothing else.

23 posted on 09/14/2012 6:56:01 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
A better written article with much more detail...

The Manhattan Mercury - Objection to Obama to be withdrawn

24 posted on 09/14/2012 6:57:38 PM PDT by Tex-Con-Man (T. Coddington Van Voorhees VII 2012 - "Together, I Shall Ride You To Victory")
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To: Kansas58

Okay. I was not aware of the “soil” argument. Is that explicitly metioned in the Constitution, or settled through later jurisprudence?

Hypothetical: If Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Cristina Fernandez happened to be a couple visitng the USA, and she gave birth to a child while visiting, would that child be eligible for the Office of POTUS?


25 posted on 09/14/2012 6:57:50 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew (oboy)
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To: Fester Chugabrew

If the couple were considered EXEMPT from prosecution under American law, then they are not “subject to the jurisdiction thereof”

And the answer would be “no”.

Diplomatic immunity would prevent citizenship.


26 posted on 09/14/2012 7:00:08 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58
Thanks for your time in answering. A couple more questions:

1.) Do we know for certain that Zero's Dad was not exempt from prosecution under American law?

2.) What is the reason, in your opinion, for so much time and expense to obfuscate when it comes to Zero's birth records?

3.) Given Zero's proclivities in regard to international affairs, along with the questions surrounding his birth documents, what amount of confidence do you have that he was actually born on American soil?

Thanks again.

27 posted on 09/14/2012 7:09:42 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew (oboy)
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To: Kansas58
This fight is OVER!

LoL The truth is never OVER!!

From the 1874 Foreign Relations Committee from above.

"A child born within the United States, of parents who are not citizens, and who do not reside within the United States...shall NOT be regarded as citizens thereof."

The operative phrases from above are in bold.

Wow, they mean that the US government didn't believe that someone could be born within the United States could not be a US citizen?

Heck, then there is no way that person could ever be a natural born citizen LoL.

28 posted on 09/14/2012 7:10:00 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel
One statement from a COMMITTEE?

Was it passed in to law?

NO!

And all legal authorities would tell you that the 14th Amendment would vanquish any weird theory of Vattel’s anyway. (Even though NBC did not mean what you think it did, even before the 14th was ratified in 1868)

29 posted on 09/14/2012 7:20:02 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Fester Chugabrew
Obama is a liar.
However, I do think Obama enjoys the NBC debate, as I have always thought that Obama was actually the son of Frank Marshal Davis, and this diverts attention from his Communist biological father.
Obama want this diversion.
30 posted on 09/14/2012 7:23:35 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58

If my husband and I (both US citizens) conceive a child...when that child is born, (no matter where), he is born a citizen of the US. His citizenship is derived “naturally” by his birth from citizens. I know of no law needed to make him a US citizen.

All other forms of citizenship require some sort of statute to determine validity and therefore these are not natural born citizenship. If ANY question must be raised and answered regarding citizenship, then it is not a natural born citizenship. NBC requires nothing further than citizen parents.

I was taught this in elementary school more than 50 years ago in regard to the difference in the requirements for electing the President, Vice President, or other officers. It doesn’t seem complex to me at all.


31 posted on 09/14/2012 7:24:20 PM PDT by Jude in WV
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To: Red Steel
One other point, however, if Obama was born in Hawaii, his MOTHER WAS A CITIZEN!

So, your quote from the past would not apply.

Also, I think the “anchor baby” issue we are dealing with can be addressed much like Senator Moran of Kansas suggests, by saying that the parents of anchor babies could not file for divorce and custody, in the United States, so that the children are not, “subject to the jurisdiction thereof”.

32 posted on 09/14/2012 7:26:43 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58

Were you one of the people who intimidated him and his family into withdrawing?


33 posted on 09/14/2012 7:27:49 PM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: Jude in WV
Whoever “taught” you was an idiot.

That is not the law.

Also, I would suggest you look at the law concerning citizenship of children born on foreign soil. You can find a pretty good legal history on the US Department of State web page, especially in the passport application sections.

The age of the parents, and the time spent in the US, prior to birth, do matter, if the birth is on foreign soil

Natural Born Citizen means Citizen at Birth.

Anyone who thinks otherwise does not understand the law.

We have two forms of Citizenship:

Natural Born Citizen

Naturalized Citizen.

If you are not a citizen, at the moment of birth, you can not be President of the United States.

This is what the law means. This and nothing else.

34 posted on 09/14/2012 7:31:33 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58
No, it's more than one statement from the bi-party or multi-party foreign relations committee as seen above.

And all legal authorities would tell you that the 14th Amendment would vanquish any weird theory of Vattel’s anyway. (Even though NBC did not mean what you think it did, even before the 14th was ratified in 1868)

It means exactly what I think it means after 4 years of studying this issue. OBozo and his surrogate's argument is that the 14th Amendment made Obama a natural born citizen. The 14th Amendment has nothing to do with the natural born citizen clause in the US Constitution.

I'll sum it up for you about the truth of the contemporary US body politic: they are cowards of the truth because they are afraid of the perceived consequences or the truth doesn't give them what they want. Not much more than that.

35 posted on 09/14/2012 7:34:46 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: American in Israel

Not only has it not been proven - it’s been proven that it CAN’T be proven. HI registrar Alvin Onaka has confirmed to AZ SOS Ken Bennett that Obama’s HI BC is not legally valid. Every state SOS and AG has been informed of that fact in a certified-mail letter from Attorney Larry Klayman, which you can see at http://butterdezillion.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/complete-klayman-letter-to-bauer.pdf

An explanation of how that works, as well as some additional information that factors into the discussion, is at http://butterdezillion.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/wheel-of-fortune-v-family-feud-final.pdf

Right now it has to be legally presumed that Onaka did not verify Obama’s birth facts because he CAN’T - and the only lawful reason for him not to be able to is if he can’t certify that the claims are true because they are not claimed on a legally valid birth certificate.

That means that there are no legally-established birth facts. We can’t even know if he is old enough to be President, much less where he was born or to whom. There is nobody in this country who can LEGALLY certify that Obama is eligible. Any Official Certification of Nomination (OCON) is immediately known to be perjurious.

And DNC Counsel Bob Bauer was warned about that in a letter from Klayman delivered by courier at 2:27pm EDT on Aug 31 - 4 days before the Convention began. Bauer suborned perjury and Alice Travers Germond and Antonio Villagairosa perjured themselves on the OCON they signed. Anybody who presents that OCON to a state SOS for placement on a ballot commits election fraud, and any SOS who accepts a known-fraudulent OCON as the basis for placement on the ballot is party to the election fraud as well.


36 posted on 09/14/2012 7:36:23 PM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: Kansas58

I didn’t go into a lengthy discussion in my post. I know that if my husband and I left the US to reside somewhere else, questions could be raised about our citizenship status and that of our child.

My intent was to suggest we were “visiting” outside the US for a short time as lots of folks do. This was made clear in 1790.


37 posted on 09/14/2012 7:37:04 PM PDT by Jude in WV
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To: Kansas58
One other point, however, if Obama was born in Hawaii, his MOTHER WAS A CITIZEN!

So, your quote from the past would not apply.

Doesn't change the fact that Obama Jr. is NOT natural born citizen.

38 posted on 09/14/2012 7:39:28 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel
I will sum it up for you:

You have hitched your wagon to a bogus, silly, stupid, false interpretation of law and history!

And, you have lost, and wasted precious time and resources better spent in other battles!

39 posted on 09/14/2012 7:39:56 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58; Red Steel

Isn’t the primary question posed before the Kansas board related to where Obama was born? In other words, isn’t it the responsibility of the candidate and/or their political party to prove beyond doubt that the candidate is born on US soil? It seems to be merely a question of proper credentials...


40 posted on 09/14/2012 7:40:45 PM PDT by visually_augmented (I was blind, but now I see)
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To: Jude in WV
If my husband and I (both US citizens) conceive a child...when that child is born, (no matter where), he is born a citizen of the US.

A citizen, not a Natural Born Citizen.

In an article written by William Safire back in 1987 lists people not eligible. He lists Connecticut's Senator Lowell Weicker was NOT eligible because he was born (of American parents) in Paris. New Hampshire Governor John Sununu also is NOT eligible. He didn't even attempt to include an anchor baby (born on American soil with alien parents) into the discussion because he knew that would not fly back then.

Safire wanted to amend the Constitution to allow naturalized citizens to be eligible. The discussion has been so bastardized recently but back in 1987 they knew better.

ESSAY; The Constitution's Flaw

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/09/06/opinion/essay-the-constitution-s-flaw.html

I want to be a delegate to the next Constitutional Convention (Con Con II). Here's my platform: amend the Constitution to make it possible for naturalized citizens to become President or Vice President of the United States.

SNIP

That means Minnesota Senator Rudy Boschwitz is blocked from advancement because he was born in Berlin, and Connecticut's Senator Lowell Weicker because he was born (of American parents) in Paris. New Hampshire Governor John Sununu, whose U.S. parents were in Havana when he was born, and Vermont's Governor Madeleine Kunin, born in Zurich and naturalized 40 years ago, can forget about higher office.

41 posted on 09/14/2012 7:43:48 PM PDT by Smokeyblue
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To: Kansas58
One other point, however, if Obama was born in Hawaii, his MOTHER WAS A CITIZEN!

And BTW, back in the day, the wife followed and acquired the citizenship of her husband, and once married to a foreigner also stripped the wife of her former US citizenship upon marriage.

42 posted on 09/14/2012 7:44:46 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel

Perhaps someone can explain this to me.

If you or I applied for a driver’s license in Kansas, we would be required to submit verifiable, documentary proof of identity and residency. No proof, no license. The State doesn’t have the burden of proving us wrong, nor will the State collect the data for us.

So why do S.O.S. Kobach, et al., keep asking Hawaii for anything, and trying to collect the data themselves, instead of requiring those who seek to put Obama on the ballot to submit verifiable, documentary proof of his eligibility? Logically, it should be The Kansas SOS should establish “No proof, no ballot access” (with reasonable forms and clear doumentary requirements) as official policy for all candidates seeking ballot access, publish the fact, and legally notify the candidates. Those who object to providing common documents can sue, and explain in court why it should take more to get a driver’s license than to be President of the United States.


43 posted on 09/14/2012 7:47:25 PM PDT by Chewbarkah
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To: Kansas58
I am stating, honestly and factually, that if Obama was born on U.S. Soil, he IS a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN!

Do you believe he was born on American soil?

44 posted on 09/14/2012 7:47:38 PM PDT by zeebee
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To: Kansas58
You have hitched your wagon to a bogus, silly, stupid, false interpretation of law and history!

No simpleton I have not.

And, you have lost, and wasted precious time and resources better spent in other battles!

Then what are you posting to me then? You are illogical.

45 posted on 09/14/2012 7:47:38 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: zeebee
Like many others, I am not sure where Obama was born.

Obama’s recent statement that he was “born to a single mother” does add another weird wrinkle to the Obama history.

46 posted on 09/14/2012 7:50:05 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58
No, let me sum this up for you,

The SCOTUS upheld Jim Crow, they were wrong,

The SCOTUS decided Wickard, they were wrong

The SCOTUS decided Roe, they were wrong

Just because they decreed does not mean they did not violate the Constitution. They were wrong.

Just as you are wrong.

47 posted on 09/14/2012 7:50:37 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Red Steel
“back in the day” is not law.

Obama’s nut case mother WAS a Citizen of the United States.

48 posted on 09/14/2012 7:51:27 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58

You would have as much success telling Egyptian islamic fanatics that Mo wasn’t a prophet. True birthers live in their own universe. No state, court or lawyer can enter their world. In their world, the earth revolves around Vattel, and more specifically, the 1797 mistranslation of Vattel.


49 posted on 09/14/2012 7:51:39 PM PDT by Mr Rogers
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To: visually_augmented

No, actually, the voter/citizen who has now withdrawn his complaint was worried about BOTH location AND the Citizenship of the parents.

This case is over.

It will be dismissed on Monday.


50 posted on 09/14/2012 7:53:09 PM PDT by Kansas58
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