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The ‘Illegal’ Trap
The New York Times ( Blog ) ^ | September 28, 2012 | LAWRENCE DOWNES

Posted on 09/29/2012 11:23:40 AM PDT by moonshinner_09

A vigorous discussion is taking place online about the word “illegal” as an adjective for certain immigrants. An immigrant activist named Jose Antonio Vargas, a former reporter, is urging news organizations like The New York Times to stop using it. He says the word is inaccurate, improper and demeaning.

The Times’s public editor, Margaret Sullivan (an independent voice who writes about The Times but is not part of its news or opinion operations), has been looking into this, interviewing editors and reporters and soliciting readers’ opinions. She says she will weigh in soon.

I figured I should, too, because I have thought about “illegal” a lot (I write immigration editorials). Five years ago I wrote an Editorial Observer called “What Part of ‘Illegal’ Don’t You Understand?” explaining why I didn’t like the word, but used it anyway. Not surprisingly, the article didn’t settle the debate. It’s still going around, in circles.

Those who agree with Mr. Vargas say “illegal” should be banned because it suggests that “illegal immigrants” are criminals, which often isn’t true. No human being is illegal, they say.

(Excerpt) Read more at takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Chit/Chat; Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: aliens; immigration; protests
Those who agree with Jose Antonio Vargassay “illegal” should be banned because it suggests that “illegal immigrants” are criminals. Didn't this Jose Antonio Vargas admit himself he was a criminal, he used document fraud and lied on I -9 tax forms by using dishonest information.He displays arrogance, audacity, a superior sense of entitlement and sense of invulnerability and untouchability and ICE refuses to arrest him and he makes a mockery of our laws.If a legal citizen did what this guy did we would quickly be locked up and charged with some serious crimes.
1 posted on 09/29/2012 11:23:44 AM PDT by moonshinner_09
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To: moonshinner_09
The real problem is the use of the term 'immigrant' when referring to people present in the US without legal authority.

They are illegal entrants, and they are visitors ~ not immigrants at all since you need an immigration visa to be an immigrant.

I prefer to call them "illegal tourists who are broke" ~ else they'd go home like the other visitors do when their time is up.

Time to take back the language. Don't let Mexicans and Russians define 'immigrant'

2 posted on 09/29/2012 11:30:08 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: moonshinner_09

Simple. They are criminals. They are breaking the law by illegally entering this country.


3 posted on 09/29/2012 11:30:12 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: moonshinner_09

If you are an alien living in the country illegally, YOU’RE AN ILLEGAL ALIEN. What are your questions, Jose? The first thing illegal aliens do when they sneak across the border into America is break the Fluken law!


4 posted on 09/29/2012 11:30:43 AM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Vote early and vote often.)
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To: muawiyah

Yeah, language is very important....Just like when 0pansy calls terrorist attacks, “Overseas contingency operations.....”

Language matters.
If you enter our country by avoiding our laws: You ARE ILLegal.
If you KILL our Ambassador: You are a MURDERER
If you vote for 0pansy: You are STUPID


5 posted on 09/29/2012 11:38:55 AM PDT by redshawk (0pansy is a Liar and Hates.........he just hates!)
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To: moonshinner_09

“He says the word is inaccurate, improper and demeaning.”

And I say he lies, lies, and lies.


6 posted on 09/29/2012 11:40:39 AM PDT by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: moonshinner_09

Go ahead make illegal immigration easy, then the illegal Hispanics will be subsumed by illegal Asians.


7 posted on 09/29/2012 11:45:51 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Take two Aspirin and call me in November - Obama for Hindmost.)
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To: moonshinner_09

Either you are here legally or you are here illegally.

End of story.

You don’t ban “illegal”


8 posted on 09/29/2012 11:47:29 AM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: moonshinner_09

Those who agree with Mr. Vargas say “illegal” should be banned because it suggests that “illegal immigrants” are criminals, which often isn’t true. No human being is illegal, they say.


Is it illegal for me to sneak into a sporting event without paying?


9 posted on 09/29/2012 11:48:12 AM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (If there is a war on women, the Kennedys are the Spec Ops troops.)
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To: muawiyah

They are illegal entrants, and they are visitors ~ not immigrants at all since you need an immigration visa to be an immigrant.

I prefer to call them “illegal tourists who are broke” ~ else they’d go home like the other visitors do when their time is up.


Criminal invaders


10 posted on 09/29/2012 11:49:05 AM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (If there is a war on women, the Kennedys are the Spec Ops troops.)
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To: moonshinner_09
The Language of the Third Reich: Lti: Lingua Tertii Imprerii [Paperback]

Under the Third Reich, the official language of Nazism came to be used as a political tool. The existing social culture was manipulated and subverted as the German people had their ethical values and their thoughts about politics, history and daily life recast in a new language. This notebook, originally called LTI (Lingua Tertii Imperii) - the abbreviation itself a parody of Nazified language - was written out of Klemperer's conviction that the language of the Third Reich helped to create its culture. As Klemperer writes: "it isn't only Nazi actions that have to vanish, but also the Nazi cast of mind, the typical Nazi way of thinking, and its breeding ground: the language of Nazism".
11 posted on 09/29/2012 11:52:18 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: SgtHooper

He’s the one that Lou Dobbs skewered when he tried to tell Lou not to say “illegal immigrant”


12 posted on 09/29/2012 11:52:27 AM PDT by dandiegirl
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

At any one time about half of them are visa overstays ~ so they didn’t illegally ‘invade’ ~ we let them in. We forgot to enforce our visas.


13 posted on 09/29/2012 11:52:27 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: moonshinner_09

What is even more disturbing is that the NY Times obbudswoman has “been looking into it” and will “weigh in soon”.

But then again, these liberals have successfully changed the meaning of the word “marriage” after about 6000 years of a universally understood definition of marriage.

We are entering a dark age, and if history is a precedent, western civilization is over and the muslims will once again rule the world for centuries. And they won’t be nice about it.


14 posted on 09/29/2012 12:07:30 PM PDT by oldbill
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To: oldbill

Remember when the word “militia” conjured up images of patriotism and honor?


15 posted on 09/29/2012 12:10:54 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: muawiyah
At any one time about half of them are visa overstays ~ so they didn’t illegally ‘invade’ ~ we let them in. We forgot to enforce our visas.

But by overstaying their visas, they have violated the law, so they are now in this country illegally.

16 posted on 09/29/2012 12:57:18 PM PDT by Isabel C.
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To: moonshinner_09

The term “wetback” works for me.


17 posted on 09/29/2012 1:29:42 PM PDT by ConservativeInPA (The truth hurts)
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To: moonshinner_09

Marxists destroy language to control the allowed thoughts. Those who control the meaning of words (and allowed associations) control concepts. (especially the children-—turn off your TV! and get them OUT of public schools).

Erase ‘illegal’-—and they are legal in the eyes of the masses.

That is why they equate God’s rainbow with homosexuals....to mock the Bible in the eyes of children. Destroys the impact and ideas of the Bible.

They put words together “homosexual marriage”-—an idea never ever expressed prior to the 80’s, because it is such a stupid, impossible, non-rational concept.

Why?-—To normalize the idea, no matter how absurd, if it is in the dialogue—it becomes a fact. The concept-—especially in the eyes of the young...who will soon be the voters and politicians will not only normalize Vice , but actually take “Pride” in Vice—because they were brainwashed into it.

That will collapsed Civil Society to promote Vice because it destroys Justice-—doesn’t matter. Irrationality (emotions) rules in the masses will be “Rights”. Right Reason and the Laws of Nature are no longer the Supreme Law of the Land. No absolutes-—just arbitrary law not based in logic destroyed Rome. (Cicero).

Good becomes Evil.....Words —when you destroy their meaning—you limit the concepts allowed. Marriage-—now people have to put an adjective before it-—never happened when we were a Christian Constitutional Republic. Now words have no meaning——so there can be no debate—no understanding-—especially by the children.

Nothing makes sense. Irrational thinkers will believe anything and allow themselves to become slaves and will sell their souls to Satan.


18 posted on 09/29/2012 1:51:01 PM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: Isabel C.

That’s right ~ now they are ILLEGAL TOURISTS ~ and it’s time for them to go back home.


19 posted on 09/29/2012 1:52:18 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: moonshinner_09

Illegals have far more rights than law-abiding US citizens. I’d sure like to know what laws I can break that, not only will I not be punished for breaking, but will be rewarded for breaking.


20 posted on 09/29/2012 2:47:10 PM PDT by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: oldbill

“...western civilization is over and the muslims will once again rule the world for centuries.”

I think the Chinese will make short shrift of the muzz.


21 posted on 09/29/2012 2:50:48 PM PDT by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: moonshinner_09

Here’s a good alternative. If someone is a legal US citizen, and they or their parents were from Mexico, we should call them “Americans”. If they are not legal US citizens, they should be called “Mexicans”, assuming they are Mexican citizens, or “Guatemalans”, etc.

By doing this, it clarifies things. These people are not US citizens, and they do not have legal papers to visit or have an extended stay in the United States.

As such, the US should provide them nothing other than deportation, any more than we should give money to their countrymen in their country. If they have taken services and goods from us they are not entitled to, as foreigners, we can choose to either bill them for the costs, or deport them and take the loss.

In either case, the most they should be afforded is the courtesy that we would afford any foreigner visiting the US who has broken our laws.

Are they “illegal aliens”? Technically, yes. But they are “citizens of Mexico”, and as such, need repatriation.


22 posted on 09/29/2012 3:41:57 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
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To: moonshinner_09

Fine Jose. I’ll stick with “illegal democrats” then. That eliminates the issue with the word, eh?


23 posted on 09/29/2012 6:49:51 PM PDT by Some Fat Guy in L.A. (Still bitterly clinging to rational thought despite it's unfashionability)
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