Skip to comments.Demands for a peaceful secession once a hypothetical possibility now already in 15 States
Posted on 11/12/2012 10:36:46 AM PST by jmaroneps37
In mid-July ..posed the question of whether there might be a constructive secession by various states if Barack Obama was re-elected.
Unfortunately he has been reelected and this hypothetical question has become a reality under the name of peaceful secession.
Now just a week past the election and there are already citizen groups in FIFTEEN STATES asking for a peaceful secession from the United States of America.
Where this will take us and when it might reach its climax remains to be seen, but a few things are sure: There will be no peaceful secession nor will there be secession by force of arms by any state.
Nevertheless, neither of these facts preclude a constructive secession which would serve the ends of a peaceful secession perhaps even more effectively.
Simple strict adherence to administrative process could very quickly level the national playing field struggle to stop unconstitutional onslaught from Obama.
He has purposefully exacerbated tensions between those who pull the wagon in our country and made it clear he intends to make us slaves to his regime. Now the ever present red tape Obama himself swore to cut to help Sandy victims, can force him to live with the consequences of his actions.
..reaction to Obamas reelection has been faster and stronger than anyone could have predicted.
The level of frustration caused by Obamas evisceration of our way of life has skyrocketed and there now seems to be no way to avoid a constitutional crisis.
Given its stunning rate of escalation there is sure to be a Tenth Amendment test case heard by the Supreme Court as soon as next spring. But even that swift action will be behind the curve by how much is the only question.
Peaceful Secession through Constructive Secession
(Excerpt) Read more at coachisright.com ...
Who’s gonna pay the bills if the responsible producing states leave?
Should be “very effective they can be.” Fingers moving fast than my brian :-)
My thoughts exactly - let them run their “welfare” programs and spend recklessly without the GOP dollar!
I don’t want a civil war, but I will move to any state that secedes. If the tyrant in our White House attacks peaceful citizens of a free state, I will not side with tyranny.
These days, a CWII would be the most lethal thing man has ever witnessed. On the outset, it will be skirmished based with brief periods of negotiations. Eventually, there will be no ROE’s and “America’s” full arsenal will be brought down on the opposing force to “end CWII”. It won’t be a “north and south”; its going to be one giant kill box.
Interesting with the media pushing this Obama/Lincoln meme, that the states like Miss, AL, LA, GA, SCar have large black populations as a percentage. So if those states secede, or tried to secede, the next move would be to paint the move as a return to the 1950s or slavery, and it would be contested on those grounds as a threat to civil rights.
That, of course, is absurd, but it is what would happen, then the world would be given a portrayal of the entire thing as a move by the Racist South and West to return to segregation.
I bring this up as a form of 3 Dimensional chess...knowing this is how it would be framed before it happens means to take that into account.
Talk of states seceding from the union sounds unbelievable.
We know there is legal process to admit new states to the union. But is there any legal means by which states can leave the union?
It would be a nightmare to sort out issues such as states paying off their share of the national debt, dealing with Social Security beneficiaries in states seceding, military bases in states which secede, etc.
On average, Red States receive far more from the federal government than they pay into it in income taxes, and Blue States pay far more federal taxes that they receive from the federal government.
Texas v. White 74 U.S. 700 (1869) the court held that the Constitution did not permit states to unilaterally secede from the United States, and that the ordinances of secession, and all the acts of the legislatures within seceding states intended to give effect to such ordinances, were “absolutely null”. http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0074_0700_ZO.html
The United States was originaly a Confederation governed by the Aerticles of Confederation. When it became united under the Constitution, it was considered that the People, not the States themselves, created one compound government.
The People divided power among branches and levels of government in order to protect individual liberty. Although the “states” ratified the Constitution, it was done by special state “conventions” called with representatives elected solely for that purpose. It was NOT the State legislatures that ratified the document.
For this reason, we are “one nation indivisable.”
If this happens the Russian prognosticator was correct.. the US will balkanize geogrphically and end being a world power.
Doubt the will is there to do this yet, but things stay the same course, this could indeed change.
I would say watch Texas... it has the economic and political clout to actually make/spearhead this in todays world. Any state other than it is just bluster IMHO.
Texas decides to go, it will lead a pack.
However, I don’t think we are at that point yet... but 20 years of less things stay they way they are, then this may indeed come to pass.
re: “In mid-July ..posed the question of whether there might be a constructive secession by various states if Barack Obama was re-elected.”
Obama will not allow a “constructive secession” or a “peaceful secession” or any other kind of secession. Why? Because he wants our money and our productivity.
In essence, Obama is the new Pharaoh and we are the slaves. He cannot, will not “let us go” because his own supporters are unproductive and need the financial backing of the producers.
If secession happens, it won’t be peaceful.
Texas Vs. White is irrelevant. A seceded state is not subject to the US Supreme Court’s rulings. BTW, where does the constitution give the Supreme Court the right to even review matters like secession in the first place?
Oh, you’re gonna get it now. Doesn’t matter that you are totally correct...
There is no such thing.
That 1869 SCOTUS case is in defiance our founding document.
"IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776. The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."
There are now petitions from 21 states.
There are now petitions from 21 states.
BFD: What’s behind the numbers? SS payments, military bases? OK then let the rich blue states form their own country. When the federal government operates a military base we all benefit. I stopped believing these types of BS stats long ago - lets see all of the detail and we can argue over that.
The standing Army of the USA is not large enough to conquer occupy one state, let alone 20. You have no idea the scope of what CWII would be.
Look, if you have bone cancer in your leg, you cut the leg off, and worry about how to walk and function wholly later.
True. I’m guessing the cost of fuel and food prices would be increased considerably to blue states.
Also then income growth is higher in Red states.
Not hard to argue with that, but I believe if this comes to pass, it will be based on a betrayal by the Federal Government to pay the benefits it has promised to various demographic groups. Keep on eye on “social security reforms” or “Medicare reforms”. The first political battleground I see spilling over into organized civil disobediance will be the young vs. old (or more accurately, the working vs. retired). Simply put, the entitlements that the US Government pays to the retired are rapidly becoming a liability that cannot be serviced.
The elderly do not typically riot or burn down neighborhoods, but I could see some type of organized civil disobediance from senior citizens that are still relatively healthy, remembering the “hell no, we want go” days of their youth, and really PO’d at the rules of the game being changed when they are past the finish line or close to it.
The next phase would be ethnically based. A rural vs. city componnent could very well develop. The trigger to all of this will be economically based and once the lid blows off the pressure cooker of balkanized values, worldviews, demographics, economic realities, and yes, politics, it would be as bad as you say.
The spirit of entitlment that oozes through the pores of every member of this society will be its undoing once the gravy train stops rolling.
It is amazing but yes there are now 20 states with such petitions. But what is more amazing is how quickly the movement is being characterized as one of a shooting Civil War II - repeat of the first one. They CANT accept the idea of a rule book slow down - constructive secession because they KNOW it will work and KNOW it will hurt them. So watch them crank up the lie machine to try to kill this movement.
As to Red states getting more federal money than Blue states, lets see how long that remains true when the Blues become totally unlivable because the makers; flee the takers; and move South. California will give way to California East - New York California Midwest- Illinois and California Southeast - Maryland.
I started the Maryland petition. Just as a note, if Maryland had decided to leave the union at the same time as Virginia and the rest of the states did, the civil war could have turned out very differently...
I don't see any need for fighting - probably. Obama is not terribly manly in any respect, and I can't imagine him initiating hostilities. So long as free Americans peacefully secede, I doubt that he would use force to stand in their way. We just have to make it perfectly clear that we do not support the initiation of violence, even in the face of leftist provocations designed to make it look like we are starting a shooting war.
“The standing Army of the USA is not large enough to conquer occupy one state, let alone 20. You have no idea the scope of what CWII would be”
So true and the states don’t need and should not officially secede. All they have to do is just start going their own way and ignoring any and all Fed laws they deem that violate their 10th ammendment rights. Also ignoring rulings by Federal judges who have no jurisdiction over a sovereign state anyway.
The Federal govt is only as strong as the states allow it to be. 20 states could bring the Feds to their knees by just witholding the alchohol, tobacco and gas taxes that they collect every month.
More than half the standing Army would defect back to their home state anyway.. Hopefully taking a lot of equipment with them.
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