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Give Pot a Chance
N. Y. Times ^ | 11-22-2012 | TIMOTHY EGAN

Posted on 11/28/2012 12:57:41 PM PST by Renfield

SEATTLE – In two weeks, adults in this state will no longer be arrested or incarcerated for something that nearly 30 million Americans did last year. For the first time since prohibition began 75 years ago, recreational marijuana use will be legal; the misery-inducing crusade to lock up thousands of ordinary people has at last been seen, by a majority of voters in this state and in Colorado, for what it is: a monumental failure.

That is, unless the Obama administration steps in with an injunction, as it has threatened to in the past, against common sense. For what stands between ending this absurd front in the dead-ender war on drugs and the status quo is the federal government. It could intervene, citing the supremacy of federal law that still classifies marijuana as a dangerous drug....

(Excerpt) Read more at opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Agriculture; Government; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: cannabis; drugs; drugwar; liberalagenda; marijuana; prodope; surrendermonkeys; surrenderwod; warondrugs; wod; wodlist; wosd
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1 posted on 11/28/2012 12:57:42 PM PST by Renfield
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To: Renfield

I’m beginning to understand why this country is going down the crapper................


2 posted on 11/28/2012 12:58:55 PM PST by Tzimisce (What do you do when every every branch of the government is corrupt and aligned against you?)
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To: Renfield

Pro-dopers in Support of this NY Slimes crapola arriving in 5, 4, 3...


3 posted on 11/28/2012 1:02:07 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Renfield

Yes give yet another disgusting, non-beneficial behavior a chance. I am tired of the ones who argue “it is less destructive than X”, “Nobody on weed ever killed anyone”, yada yada.

It smells, it makes you stupid, it costs you money which even if legal some will still steal to gets funds, just ignorant.

Flame away.


4 posted on 11/28/2012 1:06:06 PM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: Responsibility2nd
Pro-dopers in Support of this NY Slimes crapola arriving in 5, 4, 3...

Proud of your self, Jackboots2nd, that you and Zero are on the same side of this issue? You and the head of the Choom Gang - "gotta lock up them maggot-infested, dope smokin' FM types. doncha know".

Leftist Authoritarians and Drug Warriors - freedom-hating "progressive" birds of a feather.

5 posted on 11/28/2012 1:10:04 PM PST by bassmaner (Hey commies: I am a white male, and I am guilty of NOTHING! Sell your 'white guilt' elsewhere.)
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To: Resolute Conservative

“I am tired of the ones who argue “it is less destructive than X”

Kind of like “we’ve been hit in the arm, so why not get gut shot?”

I never understood that logic either, until I realized I was talking to someone in favor of unleashing yet ANOTHER drug on us. Pretty soon Marx’s jeers about the opiate of the masses will actually BE the opiate of the masses...so we’ll at least know definitively why we became just another third world shithole.


6 posted on 11/28/2012 1:14:39 PM PST by jessduntno ("Socialism only works...in Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they have it." - RR)
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To: Resolute Conservative

I compare it to the slow drip, drip, of water instead of flames.


7 posted on 11/28/2012 1:17:22 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Renfield

God grew it. I smoke it, and that settles it.


8 posted on 11/28/2012 1:17:54 PM PST by dainbramaged (My dog can talk - when she feels like it.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

......2, 1... ME!

I’ve tried marijuana once, and it was miserable junk. I’ll never touch it again. I suppose it addles your brain, fries your lungs, and makes you an unmotivated lump of junk.

But prohibition has failed by every measure I can think of. In Oregon and Washington, anyone can get MJ any time they want. It’s everywhere.

The primary beneficiaries of prohibition are murderously dangerous Mexican drug cartels who earn between 30% and 50% (estimates vary) of their profits on MJ. I had to carry a 9mm on my hip on innocuous hiking trails in Oregon so that I could protect myself, not from wildlife, but from drug gangs.

I want Midwestern Farmers to grow it for profit at a low price. I don’t want it taxed. I want it stigmatized like alcohol and drunk driving.

We’ve mainly created a massive class of dangerous drug runners with prohibition. People will find a way to addle their brains. The question is, shall we also create hundreds of thousands of dangerous drug runners while that happens?


9 posted on 11/28/2012 1:20:33 PM PST by Uncle Miltie (Working is for suckers.)
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To: dainbramaged

I graduated High School in 1975. Lowering the drinking age wasn’t a good idea let alone this. That’s why we called them “Burn Outs”.


10 posted on 11/28/2012 1:21:11 PM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Resolute Conservative

“It smells, it makes you stupid, it costs you money which even if legal some will still steal to gets funds, just ignorant.

Flame away.”

No flame. Just a hope that you will be consistent and also move to ban and lock people up over booze, and tobacco as they both share similar attributes.


11 posted on 11/28/2012 1:21:11 PM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: dainbramaged

Did the plants bloom in a rolled form?


12 posted on 11/28/2012 1:21:18 PM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: Renfield
It's probably not the best use of your time, and does carry some risk.

IMHO, it's also less a waste of time an less destructive that attempting to eliminate for everyone's life everything that isn't the best possible use of their time and is perfectly safe.

13 posted on 11/28/2012 1:26:02 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Resolute Conservative

“Yes give yet another disgusting, non-beneficial behavior a chance. I am tired of the ones who argue “it is less destructive than X”, “Nobody on weed ever killed anyone”, yada yada.

It smells, it makes you stupid, it costs you money which even if legal some will still steal to gets funds, just ignorant.”

I simply do not understand your argument(s).

“It smells.” So does pig sh*t and while working, so do pig farmers. So do cigars. So does cheap perfume. So what?

“It makes you stupid.” Most people I know are born that way. If someone chooses to become so of their own volition, so what?

“It costs you money.” So does every consumer product. So what?

“If legal some will still steal to get funds.” Huh????? Your premise is that people are stealing to buy marijuana because it is illegal but that they will steal anyway when it becomes legal????? Well, okaaaaay...

If you can come up with conservative reasons that the federal government should ignore the conservative principle of federalism and interfere in a state’s right to legalize a plant then I am all ears.


14 posted on 11/28/2012 1:28:40 PM PST by FerociousRabbit
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To: Renfield

Have you slapped a pothead today?

Give it a try.


15 posted on 11/28/2012 1:28:58 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Tzimisce

It is basically that Libertarian soapbox. I believe in most of the same policies they do except not standing on any moral ground. Hence I will never vote for one since “a man that will not declare a position can be positioned”. It is pretty talk to say I don’t care what so and so does but it is just a lack of will to want to engage and fight the fights that needs fighting versus laying down and not fighting any.

You have to stand ground on moral issues that work to under mind your society.

As Edmund Burke said, “All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing”. It applies to everything from big things like stopping mass genocide to little things like continually fighting liberals who are exposing more and more smut on tv/radio to chip away at your children.


16 posted on 11/28/2012 1:29:59 PM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: Uncle Miltie

We spent billions, locked up millions and lost the 4th amendment. The result - pot is cheaper, more potent and even easier to get than it was in 1974 when I was in HS. Why can you not see this for the wonderful “for the children” program it is? (do I need a sarcasm tag?)


17 posted on 11/28/2012 1:32:35 PM PST by SpeakerToAnimals (I hope to earn a name in battle)
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To: VanDeKoik

Yes. If you can smoke it, chew it, or drink it in your house, it never ever cost me anything related to your healthcare, property damage, or hurts my family in anyway — indulge away.

Stay home until the smell and effects are long gone, which after years of drinking and smoking dope you technically should not ever leave home again because you have killed brain cells.


18 posted on 11/28/2012 1:34:16 PM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: Resolute Conservative
Did the plants bloom in a rolled form?
No, you render the female colas (buds) down with butter and spread it on toast made from fresh baked bread. THC is a fat soluble molecule.
If they were still around, you could ask Ben Franklin or Queen Elizabeth I about their use of the herb.
19 posted on 11/28/2012 1:37:53 PM PST by dainbramaged (My dog can talk - when she feels like it.)
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To: Renfield

Meanwhile tobacco smokers are penalized in their insurance (life and health) costs, refused employment, and harassed in city parks, restaurants, and sidewalks.

Al Gore Junior Jr. would still be getting busted by cops for blazing joints in his car while rollin’. The standard for DWI has essentially become 2 beers.

While dopers were busy demonizing cigarettes and alchy-haul, they were merely preparng the rope for their own gallows.


20 posted on 11/28/2012 1:38:18 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: Renfield

I’ve seen how pot affects pot addicts. I’ve already given it a chance.


21 posted on 11/28/2012 1:39:45 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: bassmaner

The same ATF that regulates taxes on ciggies and juice will find it in their powers to go after you. Sleep tight.


22 posted on 11/28/2012 1:42:01 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: bassmaner

Pretty impressive rant there. Totally void of truth and logic, but when does any liberal use truth and logic. They just resort to name calling.

Face it. You are in the (wrong) minority here. This is a pro-God, pro-Family site. You and dopers like you are not welcome.


23 posted on 11/28/2012 1:43:24 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

One doesn’t have to be a doper to realize that the state level is where this issue should be decided, and one must be on some brain-deadening substance to claim that the Constitution gives the Feds the authority to ban intoxicants in intra-state commerce.


24 posted on 11/28/2012 1:45:00 PM PST by Daveinyork (."Trusting government with power and money is like trusting teenaged boys with whiskey and car keys,)
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To: dainbramaged

“All we are saying . . . is give pot a chance”. (Sung to Give Peace a Chance).


25 posted on 11/28/2012 1:45:44 PM PST by BipolarBob (Never lick a gift horse in the mouth.)
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To: Resolute Conservative

Did Noah’s trees grow in the shape of an ark?


26 posted on 11/28/2012 1:47:38 PM PST by Mogger (Independence, better fuel economy and performance with American made synthetic oil.)
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To: Renfield

Give pot a chance? Why not give lung cancer or COPD an equal chance? Inhaling tar and burning paper into healthy lungs is just plain stupid.


27 posted on 11/28/2012 1:48:36 PM PST by The_Media_never_lie (Actually, they lie when it suits them! The crooked MS media must be defeated any way it can be done!)
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To: FerociousRabbit

Pig crap et. al. - things I never go around. Cigar smokers come around and I start hacking and coughing toward them. If I have to have their sh_t in the air, they get mine. Every one so far has moved on.

I have been around my share of stoners and some where smart guys in their teens early 20’s and now sound worse than NObama when he talks. Stuttering all over the place, physical appearance has changed, cannot remember their own phone number etc...

It costs me money in the sense dopers that cannot pay for whether it is legal or not will steal. Healthcare issues ( and yes I feel the same about drunks ). Little Johnny (12-40 years old stoners) at home whose parents won’t give him the money to buy due to their beliefs will go and steal, usually from parents but others as well.

I am all for states deciding, that way those that like it can move there and I can live elsewhere. The drug laws should be by states, the downside/upside is every state will be different just like gun laws so don’t bring your dope to my state.

My point is this will not stop in the northwest it will pushed outward in the name of the libertarian stance “don’t tell me what to do” and the democrat stance of whatever is morally okay.


28 posted on 11/28/2012 1:49:13 PM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: Resolute Conservative
Did the plants bloom in a rolled form?

Did Noah's trees grow in the shape of an ark?

29 posted on 11/28/2012 1:49:25 PM PST by Mogger (Independence, better fuel economy and performance with American made synthetic oil.)
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To: BipolarBob
“All we are saying . . . is give pot weed a chance”. (Sung to Give Peace a Chance).

I made a small edit there. It just flows a little better that way. :)

30 posted on 11/28/2012 1:49:35 PM PST by ZirconEncrustedTweezers (Democrats are evil. Republicans are stupid.)
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To: Responsibility2nd; bassmaner

OK, so you guys are on different sides of the issue and mad at each other.

But consider this, without the WOD, “civil asset forfeitures”, and the rise of heavily militarized police would have never have developed to its current level.

IMHO, you have to separate the issue of pot and pot users from the effects caused by the huge profits and attraction to criminal behavior caused by its prohibition. If you don’t, it’s easy to assume that the societal problems will increase if pot is made legal.

Let’s look at alcohol. Prohibition brought us Al Capone and Joe Kennedy, and a lot of disrespect for government. Repeal brought us somewhat more drunks and a lot of taxes. Which was worse?


31 posted on 11/28/2012 1:49:50 PM PST by Pearls Before Swine
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To: Uncle Miltie

“I don’t want it taxed. I want it stigmatized like alcohol and drunk driving.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Got any ideas for stigmatizing it if you make it legal with no taxes, penalties, repercussions, or any legal disadvantages at all?

How about ideas for solving the millions of new problmes that millions of new users will bring to the table with legal marijuana?

You speak of “hundreds of thousands of dangerous drug runners”. How about the hundreds of MILLIONS of new drug users?

That’s the fundamental flaw with legalization. For every problem you solve, a million more crop up.


32 posted on 11/28/2012 1:50:17 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

How is alcohol prohibition different than pot prohibition?


33 posted on 11/28/2012 1:51:20 PM PST by Uncle Miltie (Working is for suckers.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

“Face it. You are in the (wrong) minority here. This is a pro-God, pro-Family site. You and dopers like you are not welcome.”

Now hold on a second. This is also supposed to be a low-government site to yet you are telling supposedly free adults that you cant take some thing that grows from the ground and smoke it? On what grounds?

How is that any different than smoking tobacco? How is it different than drinking beer How is it any different than eating greasy foods?

All of those things affect people if done to excess. None of them has led to the downfall of civilization and non have anything to do with being pro or anti family.

This is just another example of government and their enablers hiding behind families or kids in order to control behavior.

A person cant have tobacco soda and fried foods at home - We condemn them as commies and nanny-state types.

A person cant smoke what is basically a plant in their own homes - We are just protecting society?

How can you have both and not lose credibility?


34 posted on 11/28/2012 1:51:52 PM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: jessduntno

Opiates are the religion of the masses.


35 posted on 11/28/2012 1:52:09 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: Renfield
Every marijuana thread we have it's the same old statist crap: "I don't like marijuana and think it's bad so I'm cool with the federal government wiping their butts with the Constitution as long as it provides me the illusion of living in a drug-free society". The War on Drugs was one of the biggest leftist/Marxist coups ever perpetrated on this country. Not only did it allow the federal government to ignore the Bill of Rights and increase its own power, but the very people one might expect to resist government encroachment - conservatives - are most often the ones who are found bending over, grabbing their ankles and begging for Uncle Sam to ram it in as deep as he can get.

Any of you ever wonder why lord and savior Obama prosecuted medical marijuana dispensaries even more than Bush? I'll tell you why: because he LOVES the power that the ridiculous War on Drugs gives the fedgov, and all with the cheering approval of the suckers on the Right. Why would he want to end the War on Drugs? Ending it would simply make it harder to implement the fascist utopia that he is trying to build.

So, by all means, suckers, support the War on Drugs. Internalize the idea that the federal government is perfectly entitled to dictate to individual citizens what they can grow or smoke. And while you're at it, go take a flying leap.
36 posted on 11/28/2012 1:54:46 PM PST by fr_freak
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To: Responsibility2nd

“Face it. You are in the (wrong) minority here. This is a pro-God, pro-Family site. You and dopers like you are not welcome.”

From what I’ve seen, the dope-heads actually make the cogent “conservative” arguments here. What “conservative” arguments are you making?
Federalism? States’ rights? A limited federal government with limited powers? Individual responsibility? Liberty? Freedom from a capricious and tyrannical government?
Just curious.


37 posted on 11/28/2012 1:55:06 PM PST by FerociousRabbit
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To: Mogger

Those trees were used to perpetuate a planet after others were over-indulging in the same kind of debauchery. How much anything has dope/booze saved or promoted? Please do not attempt to list scientific breakthroughs. I am well versed in use of hemp rope etc...

This is the same old dead-end type thread that is fun to argue but serves no purpose. As much as I love to argue and debate I must return to earning a living so the government can take half of it to subsidize someone’s recovery clinic.


38 posted on 11/28/2012 1:56:30 PM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: Renfield

OK,
Tried it for depression.
Wasn’t depressed any more, just stoned.
ALL THE TIME!

I quit.

Just like any bad habit, it’s an escape, it’s fun until a week later when your’re doing it just to feel “normal”.

Just another been there done that thing.

One more thing — nobody suspected me of being high.
Just naturally mellow I guess.


39 posted on 11/28/2012 1:56:46 PM PST by right way right (What's it gonna take?)
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To: Daveinyork

You are correct. That’s why the author has his panties in a wad over the legal right the Fed has in curtailing interstate pot to Washington.

And is this stupid law going to reduce crime? Nope. Will pushers still be arrested? Yep.

Lets be realisitc here. This state law is a liberal wet dream. They get to pass more laws, grow the size of government AND collect more tax revenue.

And yet... there are those naive FReepers who support this nonsense.


40 posted on 11/28/2012 1:56:46 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Uncle Miltie

One amusing thing I saw while attending University. An underage student bemoaned the unavailability of alcohol, due to being under 21. The people who sold alcohol were legitimate businesses that had a license to protect. No way would they sell to him. Contraband drugs on the other hand and sold by people who already don’t mind breaking the law. He summed up this phenomenon this way...

“I can score acid in this town easier than a six pack of beer!”


41 posted on 11/28/2012 1:57:22 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: Resolute Conservative
It is pretty talk to say I don’t care what so and so does but it is just a lack of will to want to engage and fight the fights that needs fighting versus laying down and not fighting any.
Absolutely. I said it before and your excellent post (only partially quoted above) allows me to say it again:

The most dangerous people on Earth, are those who shrug a lot.

42 posted on 11/28/2012 1:59:09 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (sotto voce)
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To: Uncle Miltie

“How is alcohol prohibition different than pot prohibition?”

Alcohol was bad because society has used booze for all types of “acceptable” purposes for centuries from the drink at the local pub, after work cocktail, libations that enhanced the flavor of food, to communion wine.

Pot got the reputation of being stuff crazy jazz musicians, Mexicans, and hippie losers puffed on before reading Marx and planning revolution. So the same people that cringed at alcohol being illegal were cool with this even though those that wanted to ban the drink used the same logic as is used here. And that is why it hasn’t worked.


43 posted on 11/28/2012 2:00:06 PM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: Renfield
In two weeks, adults in this state will no longer be arrested or incarcerated for something that nearly 30 million Americans did last year

Actually I'd be surprised to hear of anyone being jailed for mere use. Standard procedure around here is to issue a citation and pay a fine. It was the dealers and importers that anyone devoted any time to. I guess that's out the window too.

I was kinda unexpected that anyone would mount a campaign for this - it is such a low priority issue. And I doubt that the change will be noticeable.

44 posted on 11/28/2012 2:01:10 PM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: VanDeKoik
I made a simple statement. You apparently took exception to it with all your banal questions. I won't bother with replying. I'll just repeat my simple (but true) statement:

(in bold font)

 

“Face it. You are in the (wrong) minority here. This is a pro-God, pro-Family site. You and dopers like you are not welcome.”


45 posted on 11/28/2012 2:02:25 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: bassmaner; Responsibility2nd

I guess there is no chance of assmanners ever raising a family.


46 posted on 11/28/2012 2:03:27 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (sotto voce)
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To: Resolute Conservative

“How much anything has dope/booze saved or promoted?”

You ought to read more about the early economic history of the American colonies. You will find those people using items and selling stuff made from both in order to make a living.


47 posted on 11/28/2012 2:04:29 PM PST by VanDeKoik
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Comment #48 Removed by Moderator

To: Responsibility2nd

““Face it. You are in the (wrong) minority here. This is a pro-God, pro-Family site. You and dopers like you are not welcome.””

Yeah...Ok.

When you are done hiding behind pompous statements in 78 point Times New Roman, and realize YOU dont own nor run Free Republic and thus have no grounds to demand that anyone do anything, you may get around to answering legitimate questions.


49 posted on 11/28/2012 2:10:07 PM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: FerociousRabbit
Jeez. You are the second person (so far) to take exception to my simple little statement by asking irrelevant questions.

Mind you, they are good questions. And easily answerable by right thinking conservatives who know that pro-dope laws are anathema to God, Family and Country.

But - sad to say - there are plenty of FReaking liberals about who think advancing the liberal pro-dope agenda is good for us.

Here - again - is my simple little statement. Designed to piss off liberals:

“Face it. You are in the (wrong) minority here. This is a pro-God, pro-Family site. You and dopers like you are not welcome.”


50 posted on 11/28/2012 2:10:07 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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