Skip to comments.Should Christians support the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state?
Posted on 11/29/2012 9:05:26 AM PST by Former Fetus
Should Christians support the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state? This has long been an important question. But its particularly relevant this week.
On Thursday, the Palestinian leadership will ask the United Nations General Assembly to vote on a resolution that will give them enhanced international legal status, not quite a full sovereign state, but very close. The resolution is expected to pass decisively. France, Russia, China and most nations of the world have indicated they will vote yes on the resolution. Thats right, the world is poised to say yes to a sovereign Palestinian state despite the fact that Palestinians in Gaza just committed more than 3,000 war crimes last week (each rocket was fired from behind innocent Arab civilians, and fired at innocent Jewish civilians, making each rocket fired a double war crime); despite the fact that the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank doesnt have any control over the situation in Gaza; despite the fact that the PA has admantly refused to sit down and engage in face to face peace talks with the Israelis for years; and despite the fact that the PA is nearly bankrupt and unable to pay its workers).
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I would support it, but in a tiny little microstate in the middle of the current state of Jordan. That’s where they belong, anyway.
This Christian will never support a pali state.
There WAS a Palestinian state. Then they invaded Israel and lost. Now there *isn’t* a Palestinian state.
Israel has offered to do this and the Pallies refused because they want Israel gone.
This would give Israel something legitimate to declare war on I guess
There is no such thing as a Palestinian. It’s a made up word to describe people from surrounding countries living in Israel’s land.
Back to Jordan, where they belong.
The Palestinians and the entirety of the Arab world kinda need to demonstrate that they actually want a Palestinian state, before asking anybody else whether they’d like a Palestinian state.
In any event, there already is a Palestinian state. It’s called Jordan.
Or for that matter, Israel itself is a Palestinian state.
As mentioned above, if the recently invented political creation of people called Palestinians deserve their own state, their friends in Syria or Jordan or Egypt or Norway or France or Upper Manhattan can carve out a few square miles and give it to them.
I know that it doesn’t seem like a popular idea today, but many—most—people are not premillennial in their eschatological views. Many, including myself, believe that the Old Testament prophecies with regard to the coming kingdom had reference to the New Testament church, not to a political Jewish state. Therefore, the fate of the modern nation of Israel is not viewed as quite as relevant to Biblical prophecy as most would espouse.
Having said that, I still support Israel. I don’t support them because of any belief that the modern state of Israel is the primary fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. I support them because they are the good guys in the region. I am open to working with the Palestinians, but they have to start developing some track record of good faith and behavior before any significant progress can be expected.
And someday I’d like to hear Rome’s reasoning.
I’ve heard them mouth support, but never a REASON!
I have the impression they think they’re supporting Israeli Christians.
The truth is the Pali’s use them as shields, and oppress them, as well.
Palestine was a word the Roman Emperor Hadrian made up in 100 AD to infuriate the Jews.
“This Christian will never support a pali state.”
Look at how many Christians voted for Romney who is a Leftist (an admitted Progressive) and desires to be a god even though Christians supposedly say there is only one God!
That didn’t take long to bash Catholics. :) Good job, alienating allies.
What??? Didn’t like that I stated the obvious that Christians WILL support a terrorist state? We have enough (57) of them now as it is. Why create another one?
NO WAY! The ‘cup of trembling’ ... Jerusalem. The ‘crafty council’ of Psalm 2 (UN) meets today and will try and force a Pali-State. That airplane won’t fly because the Most High is the pilot. He gave the land to His people and He meant it. And that is why the ‘world’ will suffer the consequences. They will be going directly against the God of the Universe.
The Jews are God’s chosen people and Israel is the land he selected for them. Actually, it’s the land he selected for himself. Israel will never cease to be a nation again and it’s through Israel where God will show his glory.
I suppose “christians” who go to big buildings where they teach social justice or the prosperity gospel etc., instead of the true gospel would likely favor the Palestinians over God’s chosen.
God allows all sorts of evil to proliferate throughout the world on a daily basis. Did you know that the UN(TSO) in Israel is located on the Hill of Evil Counsel?
I would support it, but in a tiny little microstate in the middle of the current state of Jordan. Thats where they belong, anyway.
I was thinking Egypt.
With a ‘yes’ vote, the UN is creating another terrorist state.
I didn’t know that! LOL!!!
I thought the security council had the final approval. Isn’t that why Germany a current security council member says they’ll abstain. That means nothing happens without US approval.
I’m a very Conservative Catholic, loyal to the teachings of Rome.
I just don’t happen to understand Rome’s politics, when it comes to Israel.
I keep seeing hints of sympathy for the Pali’s.
Would you care to clarify?
Egypt.. even better.
Although the Palestinian Mandate, established by the League of Nations in the 1920’s, purpose was to create a homeland for dispersed Jews from around the world, the British reneged on the Mandate and created one, and only one state, within the Mandate. That state occupied and still occupies two-thirds of the land meant as a Jewish homeland. This state was called Trans-Jordan. It's name means "Across the Jordan".
The British then dragged their feet, because of Muslim hatred, and their new relationship with the Saudis. The British also ordered all Jewish settlers, who had settled east of the Jordan to leave and resettle west of the Jordan. The explanation given by the British was that land east of the Jordan was Arab. During WWII the British contributed to the death of Jews during the Holocaust. They blocked ships carrying Holocaust refugees from landing and forced the refugees back to Nazi occupied territory.p>
In 1948, after the Holocaust, and years of British duplicity, the Jewish state was created by action of the United Nations. This only partially fulfilled the Mandate, but Jews accepted what was offered. The British left an enormous mess in the process.p>
The Arab League attacked the fledgling state, but lost. Trans-Jordan, in the process, illegally occupied what is now called the West Bank. They then proceeded to make it part of Trans-Jordan, renamed their country Jordan, gave Jordanian citizenship to all Arab living in the West Bank, and proceeded to try to erase any sign of Jewish presence in the West Bank.
In the process they destroyed Jewish places of worship,stole land and building,desecrated Jewish cemeteries, and closed down freedom of worship.
Between 1948 and 1967 the West Bank was occupied by an invading Arab, Muslim state, whose ruling house was Saudi in origin.
In 1967 Jordan along with other Muslim, Arab states fought Israel. Israel regained the West Bank, and ended the Jordanian occupation. The Israelis reestablish freedom of worship in the West Bank and annexed its ancient capital Jerusalem. The Arab states lost an enormous amount of territory. Prior to this war no people other than Jewish settlers were referred to as “Palestinian”.
A new initiative, funded by Arab oil monies, took the stage.
Magically, the vast group of Arabs (approximately 200 million)were no long involved, but now a small group of “Palestinian Arabs” became a persecuted minority in the world's view. Those Arab states, along with the greater Muslim population have always viewed Israel as illegitimate and called for the destruction of Israel.
The Arabs unsheathed their oil weapon in 1973 and the world bowed at their feet. The world put out the cry “Land for Peace”, and Israel responded with peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan.
When Israel tried to give a large portion of the West Bank back to Jordan, Jordan refused and gave up their claim to the West Bank. Instead the fallacy of a two state solution evolved (actually this would result in the the creation of three states within the Palestinian Mandate. Strange that the Palestinian Mandate called for the establishment of a Jewish homeland. It never called for the creation of any other entity.
Two states already exist in the Palestinian Mandate, Jordan and Israel. The Palestinians tried to take over Jordan once and were expelled into Lebanon. Now we have Arab and non-Arab, Muslim states trying to create a Muslim Caliph, while the world in general looks on with a blind eye.
There already is a Palestinian state. It’s called “Jordan.”
Christianity sprang from the New Covenant and it seems to me we waste far too much time trying to resist the evil that Jesus told us not to resist, and far too little time just carrying the Good News of the Gospels and the rest of the New Testament. God has already let us know how it all ends and there's nothing we can do to change His Will. Israel will NOT be destroyed (but it will likely take some serious hits), and the Evil One will not prevail. While my very fiber says NO! to a Pali State, the mustard-seed-Faith part of me says let what will be happen and watch with great interest...Can you imagine having the end times kick off during your lifetime?
I wonder if their remnant winds up being Moab. I mean, Moab is a vital piece of end-times prophecy that seems to be missing - And Moab is currently (mostly) in Jordan. The current philistines are generally Jordanian...
Dunno, Just sayin.
The old Palestine was divided into two pieces; a sliver for the jewish settlers and the remainder for the arabs. Arab palestine was renamed Jordan, and jewish palestine was renamed Israel.
Jordanians are palestinians and vice versa.
The event referred to, when the palestinians tried to take over, was Arafat's organization. He tried to take over the Jordanian government and was expelled. But the Jordanians who remained are still palestinians; Jordanians and palestinians are the same people because Jordan is arab palestine.
The Jordanian government doesn't like to remind people of that because the royal family is not from the region, they are from Mecca and were imposed by the Brits. They are the outsiders, not the palestinians.
I’m not sure why you have that perception...I’m a conservative Catholic as well and side with Israel. Most of the folks I work with feel the same.
Benedict has been very friendly towards Israel over his term.
i want to petition the un for a punic state in what is now tunisia.
Read Vatican writings on the Pali’s.
Never critcal, often supportive.
I went to Israel in May with very knowledgeable “Institute” leader, who gave the same impression.
Criticizing, while careful to say “not anti-Semitic”.
Evidence please. :)
That was my point!
Go find any writings from the Vatican supportive of Israel.
My research on the subject will have to wait, as I have an Apologetics class this evening and teach another, next week.
You first. I don’t debate ‘feelings’.
It’s NOT “feelings”!!
I’ve read it dozens of time over the last few years.
I just don’t have an instant recall library available at my finger tips.
Can’t do it here or now.
1) Have not all of the OT prophecies about the first coming of Christ (an Israelite) been fulfilled?
2) Has not the prophecy that the Nation of Israel would be established (Ezekiel 37:21-22), and established in a single day (Isaiah 66:8-9), and in fact on the exact day that was prophesied (Ezekiel 4:4-6), not been fulfilled in our time (at least in my time)?
3) Has not the prophecy that the Jews would again occupy Jerusalem (Zechariah 8:6-8) not been fulfilled in out time?
4) Has not the prophecy that the Jews would be gathered from among the nations (Ezekiel 36:17-23; Zechariah 8:7-8; Isaiah 43:5-6) not been fulfilled in our time?
These occurrences are not just coincidence.
The New Testament Church was grafted into physical Israel as God's chosen people (we didn't replace it). God has never rescinded His promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - including the one that He would bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel (Genesis 12:3).
Well....that was timely....if not disappointing....
“Vatican hails U.N. Palestine vote, wants guarantees for Jerusalem”
Vatican supports two-state solution in Israel-Palestine conflict
In post #43 you said:
“I dont debate feelings”
Yes you do!
In post #37 you said:
“Most of the folks I work with feel the same.”
I’ve posted 2 links to “evidence”, let me know when you concede my point.
Vatican: Bible doesnt promise Palestine to Jews
Vatican meeting demands end to Israel occupation of Palestinian lands.