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Should Christians support the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state?
Joel C. Rosenberg's Blog ^ | 11/28/2012 | Joel C. Rosenberg

Posted on 11/29/2012 9:05:26 AM PST by Former Fetus

Should Christians support the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state? This has long been an important question. But it’s particularly relevant this week.

On Thursday, the Palestinian leadership will ask the United Nations General Assembly to vote on a resolution that will give them enhanced international legal status, not quite a full sovereign state, but very close. The resolution is expected to pass decisively. France, Russia, China and most nations of the world have indicated they will vote “yes” on the resolution. That’s right, the world is poised to say yes to a sovereign Palestinian state despite the fact that Palestinians in Gaza just committed more than 3,000 war crimes last week (each rocket was fired from behind innocent Arab civilians, and fired at innocent Jewish civilians, making each rocket fired a double war crime); despite the fact that the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank doesn’t have any control over the situation in Gaza; despite the fact that the PA has admantly refused to sit down and engage in face to face peace talks with the Israelis for years; and despite the fact that the PA is nearly bankrupt and unable to pay its workers).

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TOPICS: Politics; Religion
KEYWORDS: gaza; israel; pa; palestinestatehood; palestinians; un
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“I will gather all the nations and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat. Then I will enter into judgment with them there on behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations; and they have divided up My land.” (Joel 3:2)
1 posted on 11/29/2012 9:05:38 AM PST by Former Fetus
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To: Former Fetus

Absolutely NOT!!!!!!!


2 posted on 11/29/2012 9:08:52 AM PST by Perseverando (Gun control? It's the OBOTS who are filling up prisons for violent crimes, not the Tea Party.)
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To: Former Fetus

I would support it, but in a tiny little microstate in the middle of the current state of Jordan. That’s where they belong, anyway.


3 posted on 11/29/2012 9:09:47 AM PST by ScottinVA (I've never been more disgusted with American voters.)
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To: Former Fetus

This Christian will never support a pali state.


4 posted on 11/29/2012 9:10:29 AM PST by pgkdan (We are witnessing the modern sack of Rome. The barbarians have taken over.)
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To: Former Fetus
My crystal ball says that within an hour of the vote being in the affirmative, all of the usual suspects (including china and maybe the Soviets Russians) will recognize the new "country". The new Palestinian state will feel they then have the backing of those other countries to continue their current anti-social behavior. Israel could, at that point, recognize that a state of war exists and commence military operations. Anti-Israel Jewish "peace" groups will then protest in front of the Israeli embassy in D.C.
5 posted on 11/29/2012 9:12:20 AM PST by Pecos (Double tap: the only acceptable gun control)
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To: Former Fetus
No! But it is very surprising how many so called evangelical churches do support it. I have also known a few lefty Catholics who like to go around wearing black and white kerchief things around their necks to look like Pali’s - enough to make you want to hurl.
6 posted on 11/29/2012 9:13:55 AM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong....)
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To: Perseverando

Bump!


7 posted on 11/29/2012 9:14:56 AM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: Pecos

There WAS a Palestinian state. Then they invaded Israel and lost. Now there *isn’t* a Palestinian state.


8 posted on 11/29/2012 9:19:59 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: Former Fetus

Israel has offered to do this and the Pallies refused because they want Israel gone.

This would give Israel something legitimate to declare war on I guess


9 posted on 11/29/2012 9:20:21 AM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Former Fetus
Palestinians celebrating the fall of the twin towers on 911
10 posted on 11/29/2012 9:21:53 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper (sotto voce)
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To: Former Fetus

There is no such thing as a Palestinian. It’s a made up word to describe people from surrounding countries living in Israel’s land.


11 posted on 11/29/2012 9:28:41 AM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church shows up at your funeral.)
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To: Former Fetus

Back to Jordan, where they belong.


12 posted on 11/29/2012 9:30:06 AM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: Former Fetus
It will only be a “bump in road” on the way to fulfillment of prophecy...
13 posted on 11/29/2012 9:31:27 AM PST by Errant
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To: Former Fetus

The Palestinians and the entirety of the Arab world kinda need to demonstrate that they actually want a Palestinian state, before asking anybody else whether they’d like a Palestinian state.

In any event, there already is a Palestinian state. It’s called Jordan.

Or for that matter, Israel itself is a Palestinian state.

As mentioned above, if the recently invented political creation of people called Palestinians deserve their own state, their friends in Syria or Jordan or Egypt or Norway or France or Upper Manhattan can carve out a few square miles and give it to them.


14 posted on 11/29/2012 9:38:27 AM PST by mbarker12474 (If thine enemy offend thee, give his childe a drum.)
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To: Former Fetus

I know that it doesn’t seem like a popular idea today, but many—most—people are not premillennial in their eschatological views. Many, including myself, believe that the Old Testament prophecies with regard to the coming kingdom had reference to the New Testament church, not to a political Jewish state. Therefore, the fate of the modern nation of Israel is not viewed as quite as relevant to Biblical prophecy as most would espouse.

Having said that, I still support Israel. I don’t support them because of any belief that the modern state of Israel is the primary fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. I support them because they are the good guys in the region. I am open to working with the Palestinians, but they have to start developing some track record of good faith and behavior before any significant progress can be expected.


15 posted on 11/29/2012 9:43:01 AM PST by Engraved-on-His-hands (Conservative 2016!! The Dole, H.W. Bush, McCain, Romney experiment has failed.)
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To: Former Fetus

Nope!

And someday I’d like to hear Rome’s reasoning.
I’ve heard them mouth support, but never a REASON!

I have the impression they think they’re supporting Israeli Christians.
The truth is the Pali’s use them as shields, and oppress them, as well.


16 posted on 11/29/2012 9:43:57 AM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: mbarker12474

Palestine was a word the Roman Emperor Hadrian made up in 100 AD to infuriate the Jews.


17 posted on 11/29/2012 9:44:23 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Former Fetus
I think there is a coming Palestinian state. There would be no other reason, except one, for the Israelis to sign a peace treaty that guarantees their borders and their country, with the second beast of Revelation 13. The Israelis have, they would think, complete control of their current borders.

The other reason would be if the Israelis were to be offered the lands in the Abrahamic Covenant of Genesis 15, by the beast, the Antichrist. In that Covenant, God cedes lands to Israel that much larger than the current state of Israel--from the Nile to the Euphrates.

According to the prophetic Scriptures, we all may see the first , and it will be controlled by human beings under the influence and order of the second beast. God, not the beast even if the latter were to sign an order, will control the second.
18 posted on 11/29/2012 9:46:26 AM PST by righttackle44 (Take scalps. Leave the bodies as a warning.)
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To: pgkdan

“This Christian will never support a pali state.”

Look at how many Christians voted for Romney who is a Leftist (an admitted Progressive) and desires to be a god even though Christians supposedly say there is only one God!


19 posted on 11/29/2012 9:56:20 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

go away!


20 posted on 11/29/2012 9:58:24 AM PST by pgkdan (We are witnessing the modern sack of Rome. The barbarians have taken over.)
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To: G Larry

“Rome’s reasoning.”

That didn’t take long to bash Catholics. :) Good job, alienating allies.


21 posted on 11/29/2012 9:59:30 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: pgkdan

What??? Didn’t like that I stated the obvious that Christians WILL support a terrorist state? We have enough (57) of them now as it is. Why create another one?


22 posted on 11/29/2012 10:04:37 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Former Fetus

NO WAY! The ‘cup of trembling’ ... Jerusalem. The ‘crafty council’ of Psalm 2 (UN) meets today and will try and force a Pali-State. That airplane won’t fly because the Most High is the pilot. He gave the land to His people and He meant it. And that is why the ‘world’ will suffer the consequences. They will be going directly against the God of the Universe.


23 posted on 11/29/2012 10:04:49 AM PST by BigFinn (The King is coming and He isn't riding a donkey this time.)
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The Jews are God’s chosen people and Israel is the land he selected for them. Actually, it’s the land he selected for himself. Israel will never cease to be a nation again and it’s through Israel where God will show his glory.

I suppose “christians” who go to big buildings where they teach social justice or the prosperity gospel etc., instead of the true gospel would likely favor the Palestinians over God’s chosen.


24 posted on 11/29/2012 10:10:30 AM PST by Hayride
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To: BigFinn

God allows all sorts of evil to proliferate throughout the world on a daily basis. Did you know that the UN(TSO) in Israel is located on the Hill of Evil Counsel?
http://www.apfn.org/thewinds/1998/06/evil_counsel.html


25 posted on 11/29/2012 10:11:32 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: ScottinVA

I would support it, but in a tiny little microstate in the middle of the current state of Jordan. That’s where they belong, anyway.

I was thinking Egypt.


26 posted on 11/29/2012 10:18:51 AM PST by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: freedomfiter2

With a ‘yes’ vote, the UN is creating another terrorist state.


27 posted on 11/29/2012 10:24:34 AM PST by aimhigh
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To: Jack Hydrazine

I didn’t know that! LOL!!!


28 posted on 11/29/2012 10:27:00 AM PST by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: Former Fetus

I thought the security council had the final approval. Isn’t that why Germany a current security council member says they’ll abstain. That means nothing happens without US approval.


29 posted on 11/29/2012 10:27:52 AM PST by meatloaf (Support Senate S 1863 & House Bill 1380 to eliminate oil slavery.)
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To: JCBreckenridge

Hey JO!

I’m a very Conservative Catholic, loyal to the teachings of Rome.

I just don’t happen to understand Rome’s politics, when it comes to Israel.
I keep seeing hints of sympathy for the Pali’s.
Would you care to clarify?


30 posted on 11/29/2012 10:34:24 AM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: freedomfiter2

Egypt.. even better.


31 posted on 11/29/2012 10:37:54 AM PST by ScottinVA (I've never been more disgusted with American voters.)
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To: Former Fetus
Yes, only one Palestinian nation should be recognized, and that state is Jordan.

Although the Palestinian Mandate, established by the League of Nations in the 1920’s, purpose was to create a homeland for dispersed Jews from around the world, the British reneged on the Mandate and created one, and only one state, within the Mandate. That state occupied and still occupies two-thirds of the land meant as a Jewish homeland. This state was called Trans-Jordan. It's name means "Across the Jordan".

The British then dragged their feet, because of Muslim hatred, and their new relationship with the Saudis. The British also ordered all Jewish settlers, who had settled east of the Jordan to leave and resettle west of the Jordan. The explanation given by the British was that land east of the Jordan was Arab. During WWII the British contributed to the death of Jews during the Holocaust. They blocked ships carrying Holocaust refugees from landing and forced the refugees back to Nazi occupied territory.p>

In 1948, after the Holocaust, and years of British duplicity, the Jewish state was created by action of the United Nations. This only partially fulfilled the Mandate, but Jews accepted what was offered. The British left an enormous mess in the process.p>

The Arab League attacked the fledgling state, but lost. Trans-Jordan, in the process, illegally occupied what is now called the West Bank. They then proceeded to make it part of Trans-Jordan, renamed their country Jordan, gave Jordanian citizenship to all Arab living in the West Bank, and proceeded to try to erase any sign of Jewish presence in the West Bank.

In the process they destroyed Jewish places of worship,stole land and building,desecrated Jewish cemeteries, and closed down freedom of worship.

Between 1948 and 1967 the West Bank was occupied by an invading Arab, Muslim state, whose ruling house was Saudi in origin.

In 1967 Jordan along with other Muslim, Arab states fought Israel. Israel regained the West Bank, and ended the Jordanian occupation. The Israelis reestablish freedom of worship in the West Bank and annexed its ancient capital Jerusalem. The Arab states lost an enormous amount of territory. Prior to this war no people other than Jewish settlers were referred to as “Palestinian”.

A new initiative, funded by Arab oil monies, took the stage.
Magically, the vast group of Arabs (approximately 200 million)were no long involved, but now a small group of “Palestinian Arabs” became a persecuted minority in the world's view. Those Arab states, along with the greater Muslim population have always viewed Israel as illegitimate and called for the destruction of Israel.

The Arabs unsheathed their oil weapon in 1973 and the world bowed at their feet. The world put out the cry “Land for Peace”, and Israel responded with peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan.

When Israel tried to give a large portion of the West Bank back to Jordan, Jordan refused and gave up their claim to the West Bank. Instead the fallacy of a two state solution evolved (actually this would result in the the creation of three states within the Palestinian Mandate. Strange that the Palestinian Mandate called for the establishment of a Jewish homeland. It never called for the creation of any other entity.

Two states already exist in the Palestinian Mandate, Jordan and Israel. The Palestinians tried to take over Jordan once and were expelled into Lebanon. Now we have Arab and non-Arab, Muslim states trying to create a Muslim Caliph, while the world in general looks on with a blind eye.

32 posted on 11/29/2012 10:40:48 AM PST by Yulee (Village of Albion)
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To: Former Fetus

There already is a Palestinian state. It’s called “Jordan.”


33 posted on 11/29/2012 10:48:27 AM PST by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: Former Fetus
I guess the real question is, "Should Christians care one way or the other about a Pali State"?

Christianity sprang from the New Covenant and it seems to me we waste far too much time trying to resist the evil that Jesus told us not to resist, and far too little time just carrying the Good News of the Gospels and the rest of the New Testament. God has already let us know how it all ends and there's nothing we can do to change His Will. Israel will NOT be destroyed (but it will likely take some serious hits), and the Evil One will not prevail. While my very fiber says NO! to a Pali State, the mustard-seed-Faith part of me says let what will be happen and watch with great interest...Can you imagine having the end times kick off during your lifetime?

34 posted on 11/29/2012 10:52:39 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: Former Fetus

I wonder if their remnant winds up being Moab. I mean, Moab is a vital piece of end-times prophecy that seems to be missing - And Moab is currently (mostly) in Jordan. The current philistines are generally Jordanian...

Dunno, Just sayin.


35 posted on 11/29/2012 10:53:09 AM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: Yulee
Yes, only one Palestinian nation should be recognized, and that state is Jordan.

Thank you.

The old Palestine was divided into two pieces; a sliver for the jewish settlers and the remainder for the arabs. Arab palestine was renamed Jordan, and jewish palestine was renamed Israel.

Jordanians are palestinians and vice versa.

The event referred to, when the palestinians tried to take over, was Arafat's organization. He tried to take over the Jordanian government and was expelled. But the Jordanians who remained are still palestinians; Jordanians and palestinians are the same people because Jordan is arab palestine.

The Jordanian government doesn't like to remind people of that because the royal family is not from the region, they are from Mecca and were imposed by the Brits. They are the outsiders, not the palestinians.

36 posted on 11/29/2012 10:58:50 AM PST by marron
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To: G Larry

I’m not sure why you have that perception...I’m a conservative Catholic as well and side with Israel. Most of the folks I work with feel the same.

Benedict has been very friendly towards Israel over his term.


37 posted on 11/29/2012 11:18:48 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: Former Fetus

NO


38 posted on 11/29/2012 11:18:52 AM PST by Lady Heron
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To: Former Fetus

i want to petition the un for a punic state in what is now tunisia.


39 posted on 11/29/2012 12:59:37 PM PST by bravo whiskey
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To: JCBreckenridge

Read Vatican writings on the Pali’s.
Never critcal, often supportive.

I went to Israel in May with very knowledgeable “Institute” leader, who gave the same impression.

Criticizing, while careful to say “not anti-Semitic”.


40 posted on 11/29/2012 1:13:26 PM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: G Larry

Evidence please. :)


41 posted on 11/29/2012 1:46:58 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: JCBreckenridge

That was my point!

Go find any writings from the Vatican supportive of Israel.

My research on the subject will have to wait, as I have an Apologetics class this evening and teach another, next week.


42 posted on 11/29/2012 2:48:38 PM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: G Larry

You first. I don’t debate ‘feelings’.


43 posted on 11/29/2012 3:33:17 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: JCBreckenridge

It’s NOT “feelings”!!

I’ve read it dozens of time over the last few years.

I just don’t have an instant recall library available at my finger tips.

Can’t do it here or now.


44 posted on 11/29/2012 4:03:12 PM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: Engraved-on-His-hands
Many, including myself, believe that the Old Testament prophecies with regard to the coming kingdom had reference to the New Testament church, not to a political Jewish state. Therefore, the fate of the modern nation of Israel is not viewed as quite as relevant to Biblical prophecy as most would espouse.

1) Have not all of the OT prophecies about the first coming of Christ (an Israelite) been fulfilled?

2) Has not the prophecy that the Nation of Israel would be established (Ezekiel 37:21-22), and established in a single day (Isaiah 66:8-9), and in fact on the exact day that was prophesied (Ezekiel 4:4-6), not been fulfilled in our time (at least in my time)?

3) Has not the prophecy that the Jews would again occupy Jerusalem (Zechariah 8:6-8) not been fulfilled in out time?

4) Has not the prophecy that the Jews would be gathered from among the nations (Ezekiel 36:17-23; Zechariah 8:7-8; Isaiah 43:5-6) not been fulfilled in our time?

These occurrences are not just coincidence.

The New Testament Church was grafted into physical Israel as God's chosen people (we didn't replace it). God has never rescinded His promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - including the one that He would bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel (Genesis 12:3).

45 posted on 11/29/2012 4:25:45 PM PST by jda ("Righteousness exalts a nation . . .")
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To: JCBreckenridge

Well....that was timely....if not disappointing....

>http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/30/us-palestinians-statehood-vatican-idUSBRE8AT01T20121130<

“Vatican hails U.N. Palestine vote, wants guarantees for Jerusalem”


46 posted on 11/29/2012 4:54:31 PM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: JCBreckenridge

>http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican-supports-two-state-solution-in-palestine-israel-conflict/<

Vatican supports two-state solution in Israel-Palestine conflict


47 posted on 11/29/2012 9:16:45 PM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: JCBreckenridge

In post #43 you said:
“I don’t debate ‘feelings”

Yes you do!

In post #37 you said:
“Most of the folks I work with feel the same.”

I’ve posted 2 links to “evidence”, let me know when you concede my point.


48 posted on 11/29/2012 9:22:08 PM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: JCBreckenridge

Vatican: Bible doesn’t promise Palestine to Jews

>http://rehmat1.com/2010/10/25/vatican-bible-doesnt-promise-palestine-to-jews/<


49 posted on 11/29/2012 9:23:59 PM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: JCBreckenridge

>http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7121763-vatican-meeting-demands-end-to-israel-occupation-of-palestinian-lands<

Vatican meeting demands end to Israel occupation of Palestinian lands.


50 posted on 11/29/2012 9:27:28 PM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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