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The Shooting Is Tragic, But The Lockdown Procedure May Lead To Greater Tragedy
Flopping Aces ^ | 12-15-12 | Skookum

Posted on 12/15/2012 9:41:39 AM PST by Starman417

We listened to the accounts of the tragedy in a state of disbelief and sadness. The vulnerability of our children to psychopaths is obvious, but can we do more to protect our most innocent?

I listened to a local administrator describe the standard procedure under lockdown conditions and I had an ill-feeling of dread. The safety measures the schools are advised to take are now well-known to the potential homicidal maniacs who walk our streets, and now, there is the opportunity to capitalize on information that should be classified.

Lockdown procedures include locking the classroom doors and gathering the children in a corner. Fine, but are the doors still made of wood? If a shooter wants into a classroom, it is simple procedure to fire a few rounds into the wood around the handle and kick the door open.

Once access is attained, a few more rounds will obliterate a teacher and the children gathered into a corner. Remember, a psychopath is not necessarily stupid or a poor marksman; however, a poor marksman will appreciate the convenance of target opportunity (the herding of children into a corner).

(excerpt) Read more at floppingaces.net...


TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: gun; guncontrol; sandyhook; secondamendment; shooting

1 posted on 12/15/2012 9:41:46 AM PST by Starman417
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To: Starman417

The next step is to either bulletproof the classrooms or hire retired policeman to patrol elementary schools and perhaps even daycare facilities.


2 posted on 12/15/2012 9:43:56 AM PST by Hotlanta Mike ("Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu)
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To: Starman417

There is definitely some of the code red/lock down procedures that made me wonder. The idea of herding kids into a corner and holding their arms over their heads... just appeared to me like creating fish in a barrel. However, it does keep the teacher with all the kids in order to keep them quiet. Some of the first floor classroom doors lead out to the playground... I sort of wondered why they wouldn’t let them scatter/run as fast as they can. I guess the procedures have to include all scenarios from tornados to multiple gunmen.


3 posted on 12/15/2012 9:49:53 AM PST by momtothree
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How about as a prereq to retirement, officers in their 40’s put in another 4-8 years on hall duty?


4 posted on 12/15/2012 9:50:01 AM PST by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: Hotlanta Mike

Ban public schools, let private schools take whatever actions they deem appropriate, and let parents decide which school(s) to send their different kids to, in light of education focus, methods, size, hours, and of course, security measures taken (or not taken), and then let the market allocate funds in proportion to the preferences expressed.


5 posted on 12/15/2012 9:51:04 AM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: Starman417

Its not about the guns. Its about individuals who want to do evil and harm innocent people.
Take away guns and they will find another way:
Cokeville, WY they used a gas bomb.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cokeville_Elementary_School_hostage_crisis
In China it was a knife.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-attacks-22-kids-knife-china-school-article-1.1220230


6 posted on 12/15/2012 9:51:23 AM PST by Djester62
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To: Starman417

The stupid ones get locked up for one reason or another. The damage is dome by the smart ones as history proves over and over again.

the mental health system and legal system is clearly unwilling to deal with the problem. The inmates are running the asylum.


7 posted on 12/15/2012 10:03:16 AM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: momtothree

Our younger relatives with young children, 0-21, have basically on their own told their children if someone tries to kidnap them, force them in a van or vehicle, to fight and run away, screaming as loud as they could.

Yesterday, more than one Freeper with kids in school posted that they told their kids not to herded into a room and locked down if something like this happens. They are too run away as fast as they can. If the gunman starts shooting, they start to zig/zag. Even good pistol shooters would have problems hitting a fast moving/zig/zagging target past 30.

Most people with a rifle, even one with a scope are not capable of hitting a running deer or a child.

“There is definitely some of the code red/lock down procedures that made me wonder. The idea of herding kids into a corner and holding their arms over their heads... just appeared to me like creating fish in a barrel. However, it does keep the teacher with all the kids in order to keep them quiet. Some of the first floor classroom doors lead out to the playground... I sort of wondered why they wouldn’t let them scatter/run as fast as they can. I guess the procedures have to include all scenarios from tornados to multiple gunmen.”


8 posted on 12/15/2012 10:03:53 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Tagline space for rent to pay for some of my extra taxes the next 4 years!)
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To: Starman417

If policy is changed to fleeing the school and that policy becomes known there will be the makings of some future atrocity involving that as well, if some deranged individual decides to do so. And one of them will, eventually.

Hardening the facility to an extent (safe rooms?) with very restricted access to the grounds during school hours would curtail most but not all of it. Armed guards would make a big difference if the guards themselves were beyond reproach. All the police horror stories over the past decade make me wonder about the practicality of making that assumption.

Banning guns hasn’t done it. All these mass shootings have occurred in so-called gun free zones.

I just don’t know. There have always been crazy, dangerous people. They just seem so much bolder now. Feels like society is coming unglued.


9 posted on 12/15/2012 10:05:12 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: Starman417

No more schools.

But the communists would break out in tears as they would lose the majority of future socialists.

We have the tech to educate our kids by electronic means at home or on the move.


10 posted on 12/15/2012 10:10:37 AM PST by Eye of Unk (A Civil Cold War in America is here, its already been declared.)
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To: RegulatorCountry
"Feels like society is coming unglued."

It is. And will only become worse. We have just begun to suffer the pangs and distress we have been warned about.

11 posted on 12/15/2012 10:14:01 AM PST by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: Grampa Dave

I think I need to have a talk with my six year old. My older kids are more mature and we have the plan of getting out.. away. Run, Run, Run! We have even discussed how to jump from a second story window... the proper way of landing so they can get away. Unfortunately with an elementary school, the kids are more compliant with what the teacher/administration wants them to do. That is one of the main reasons I have truly contemplated over what to do: we usually tell our little ones to obey the teacher, obey the rules yet with this case... we may have to teach them to do the opposite. Thank you, Grampa Dave


12 posted on 12/15/2012 10:15:29 AM PST by momtothree
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To: RegulatorCountry

“There have always been crazy, dangerous people. They just seem so much bolder now. Feels like society is coming unglued.”

I have a female relative that work for the library that constantly fear that one day some nut will go postal where she works.

No one has firearms and they aren’t even allowed to touch one of these crazies if they get out of hand. They can only give them a good “talking to”. There is nothing stopping them, many of them are ex-cons and are mentally unstable, from coming in and reeking havoc.

Society needs to get tough with their protection and make it clear on the front door that we are not playing around.


13 posted on 12/15/2012 10:19:58 AM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: Starman417
Some resources on school threats for consideration. (There’s some old news here, but evil, terrorism and massacres never go out of style.)

Terrorists – coming to a school near you
Police ill-equipped to defend against an American Beslan
WND
Published: 04/02/2007 at 1:00 AM

Note: Killology Research Group website does not seem to still be actively updated.

Mass Slaughter In Our Schools: The Terrorists' Chilling Plan?
By Chuck Remsberg
Senior PoliceOne Contributor

School Safety Notes and Articles About School Safety by Col. Grossman
Preventing School Violence
School Shooting Contingency Plans & Considerations
”Preparing for School Attacks" published in The Police Marksman

School Safety Notes, Articles, And Links About School Safety by Other Authors
Rise in 'shool terror attacks' - New Important Article
A School Lockdown/Emergency Drill Success Story
Rapid Response/Active Shooter Lesson Plan
Safe 2 Tell

14 posted on 12/15/2012 10:23:09 AM PST by Perseverando (Gun control? It's really not about gun control. It's about PEOPLE CONTROL!)
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To: Starman417

What is telling to me is that brother Ryan has not had contact with Adam for two years.

Asperger sufferers are gradually avoided by others until all that is left is the mom, often the case. Weapons add to the volatility. At least Adam had enough social sense to kill himself at the end.


15 posted on 12/15/2012 10:34:55 AM PST by cicero2k
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To: momtothree

“I think I need to have a talk with my six year old. My older kids are more mature and we have the plan of getting out.. away. Run, Run, Run! We have even discussed how to jump from a second story window... the proper way of landing so they can get away. Unfortunately with an elementary school, the kids are more compliant with what the teacher/administration wants them to do. That is one of the main reasons I have truly contemplated over what to do: we usually tell our little ones to obey the teacher, obey the rules yet with this case... we may have to teach them to do the opposite.”

I’m a firm believer that God helps those who help themselves and that horrible events like should be an eptihany to those of us with children and younger relatives.

When our sons were in elementary school, we enrolled them in Karate, which they took for many years. We told them at that time to get away from any adult acting weird or trying to talk to them in a weird manner. If they had to run, run as fast as they could while screaming help. If some one tried to grab them, then use their karate to stun them and then run.

Later, when they were old enough, we enrolled them in firearm safety course and the California Hunter safety course. They had a shotgun they had help buy with their money and a deer rifle. They were told if they ever abused the privilege of having a gun. Their guns would be taken away and sold. They were never to show their guns to their friends unless they went hunting with them and an adult we knew. We had to be told at least 2 days before the hunt, and if we didn’t know the adults, I had to meet them to approve of the hunt.

Your comment about how to safely jump from a two story window is excellent, and I will pass that on the many parents I know.

Many of these safety thoughts are ways to safely enable our children not to be a victim.

Good parents will be having these conversations with their children to enable them to get away and stay alive if something awful like this happens to them in school, at the mall, watching sports or playing sports.

Prior knowledge of what to do in bad situations might be the difference between being alive, seriously injured or dead.

God bless you and all of the good parents out there in this dangerous world.


16 posted on 12/15/2012 10:37:51 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Tagline space for rent to pay for some of my extra taxes the next 4 years!)
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To: Grampa Dave

Iwent to a local High School one day to do some work there. I couldn’t get in because of a bomb threat.

They took all of the kids out of the school and gathered them in the stands at the football field.

Dumbest thing I ever saw.

Any idiot could put a bomb in the football stands, call in a bomb threat and get every kid in the school with one blast.


17 posted on 12/15/2012 12:12:12 PM PST by Venturer
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To: Venturer; Travis McGee

“I went to a local High School one day to do some work there. I couldn’t get in because of a bomb threat.

They took all of the kids out of the school and gathered them in the stands at the football field.

Dumbest thing I ever saw.

Any idiot could put a bomb in the football stands, call in a bomb threat and get every kid in the school with one blast.”


If the wannabe killers have prior knowledge of how stupid stuff like this happens, re herding innocents into an outdoor space. They can become snipers, position themselves in safe firing positions, create a false alarm in the school, and then take out the innocents from a distance after they are herd into an open area as snipers.

I believe that Travis has addressed that scary reality before.

The May before 9/11, I flew UAL into LAX for some consulting. As we were deplaning and heading to the baggage area, the PA system came on and told us to exit the building and get into the street. It was a bomb threat at the baggage area.

In minutes there were thousands of us from various flights that had landed milling around the sidewalk and street outside the baggage area.

I pulled my cell phone out of my briefcase and called the rental car agency, where I had a rental waiting for me. They said they couldn’t get there due to the mass of people.

We made arrangements for me to walk about a 1/4 of a mile and get away from the mass of people. I did and a young man from the rental agency picked me up and took me to their office.

The people in the office took my luggage tickets and faxed them to the UAL Baggage office, telling them to bring my luggage to their office so they could deliver it to my hotel.

I only had my briefcase, cell phone and I was wearing shorts and a polo shirt. I had a formal dinner presentation that evening at the hotel where I was staying.

A few minutes before my presentation, the rental car agency called and said I would not be getting my luggage until about midnight as UAL was swamped.

So I made a formal presentation in my shorts/polo shirt/Crocs and no slides as they and my projector were with my luggage at LAX. My audience was sympathetic and understood.

Shortly after midnight, my luggage with my clothes, BP medicine, slide projector arrived.

On my way home good old UAL did it again re seating arrangements. They had me on a requested aisle seat. When I walked back to my seat, there two really big, Samoa Hopeful Raider tryouters taking up the entire row.

The Flight attendant said I had to work it out. I said that I would be up front in her seat. She rang for the pilot. He came back and agreed with me. I apologized to the two embarassed Samoans and they apolozed to me. I sat on a Flight Attendant’s seat, and she sat up front in the cockpit for the short flight.

Even then flying had become a mess with over booking, late flights,delayed luggage and poor service.

I told my wife that I was quitting my consulting gig and why. After 9/11, my wife decided that I made the right decision.

I have had two flights since then. One for a funeral and one for wedding. The TSA thugs on both flights enforced my no fly decision.


18 posted on 12/16/2012 8:38:57 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Tagline space for rent to pay for some of my extra taxes the next 4 years!)
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To: Grampa Dave

I’d rather drive a thousand miles than fly today. It’s a nightmare.


19 posted on 12/16/2012 8:40:59 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Perseverando
David Grossman is right on with his comparison between the superb fire protection in schools, and the total lack of protection against an incursion by an armed maniac.


20 posted on 12/16/2012 8:43:07 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee

“I’d rather drive a thousand miles than fly today. It’s a nightmare!”

A lot of friends and people we know, now drive to LA or Orange county from the wino country instead of flying.


21 posted on 12/16/2012 8:49:49 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Tagline space for rent to pay for some of my extra taxes the next 4 years!)
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