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Why Civilian Disarmament in the U.S. is Just a Statist Fantasy
Survivalblog ^ | N/A | James Wesley Rawles

Posted on 01/08/2013 5:00:32 PM PST by RWB Patriot

I often have SurvivalBlog readers forward me alarmist e-mails, warning of "total disarmament" of the civilian populace. While there indeed may be plans or schemes to disarm Americans, I don't consider these threats credible. Let me explain why: I would conservatively estimate that there are about 316 million firearms in private hands in the United States. Of these, less than 10% are logged in any formal registry. Perhaps another 30% have Form 4473s filed with the FFL dealers where they were first purchased, but that is a fractured mishmash of records with a quite perishable life span. It is notable that we live in a very mobile society, where most families move every three or four years. And in most states, there are no record keeping requirements for secondary sales of firearms. So to call the accumulation of 4473 forms a de facto registration system is laughable.

(Excerpt) Read more at survivalblog.com ...


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: banglist; democrats; disarmament; donttreadonme; guncontrol; guns; survivalblog; tyranny; youwillnotdisarmus
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1 posted on 01/08/2013 5:00:39 PM PST by RWB Patriot
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To: RWB Patriot

This is so very accurate, and sadly, will go ignored by those that need to read it the most.


2 posted on 01/08/2013 5:16:37 PM PST by arderkrag (An Unreconstructed Georgian, Forever in Rebellion.)
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To: RWB Patriot

Thanks for a cool and calculated response to the recent hysteria.


3 posted on 01/08/2013 5:21:52 PM PST by Donkey Odious ( Adapt, improvise, and overcome - now a motto for us all.)
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To: RWB Patriot

He may be right, but that doesn’t mean they won’t try.

I think his numbers are close to correct. He says over 300 million firearms in the U.S. I think it may be as much as 400 million.

When California had their first “Assault Weapon” registration, they got no more than 10% compliance. Who knows where the rest are now. I haven’t heard of many prosecutions for illegal possession though.


4 posted on 01/08/2013 5:23:07 PM PST by jimbobfoster
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To: RWB Patriot

Unfortunately, leftists believe they can do the impossible. They routinely ignore logic and facts in pursuit of their utopia, which makes for a bleak future in this case.


5 posted on 01/08/2013 5:25:33 PM PST by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: RWB Patriot
. And in most states, there are no record keeping requirements for secondary sales of firearms.

I purchased my first rifle, Winchester model 94 .30-30, through the J C Penney catalog. No paperwork of any kind. I traded it off many years ago and often wonder where it is today.

6 posted on 01/08/2013 5:33:36 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (Carry a Gun, It's a Lighter Burden Than Regret)
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To: RWB Patriot

Something else the gun grabbers never consider ... If you’re going to criminalize a significant part of the populace, what other laws will we fail to comply with afterwards?


7 posted on 01/08/2013 5:35:47 PM PST by Malone LaVeigh
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To: Malone LaVeigh

All.

If a criminal I am called, then a criminal I will be.


8 posted on 01/08/2013 5:39:51 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: RWB Patriot

Citizen Disarmament , at least rapidly, is impossible. However, the banning of guns will create a huge class of criminals of what was the Upstanding Citizen class that will become a shoot-on-sight phenomenon. the President already has the Congress-conferred (with Tea Party congressmen concurring) rights to arrest and detain anyone it wants to or to kill any US citizen it desires to kill. The communists in this administration would like nothing better than to convert, in one fell swoop, the working and business population into Designated Criminals.


9 posted on 01/08/2013 5:39:51 PM PST by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE www.fee.org/library/books/economics-in-one-lesson)
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To: RWB Patriot

Thanks, I needed that......


10 posted on 01/08/2013 5:41:15 PM PST by Banjoguy (The Mayor of San Antonio is the smoothest liar I have ever seen.)
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To: Malone LaVeigh

If everyone is a defined criminal hen the government can do hat it damn please.


11 posted on 01/08/2013 5:42:22 PM PST by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE www.fee.org/library/books/economics-in-one-lesson)
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To: RWB Patriot

What the writer is leaving out is the kind of internet data-mining the government is capable of.

It would be easy enough for a relatively skilled programmer to write a program that would troll websites for the user ids of participants claiming to have guns. Then issue subpoenas to the forums’ owners (or to various ISPs) to connect the dots and come up with a real name for the alias.

Most discussion forum owners will fold like cheap lawn chairs, others that resist will manage to draw the process out but only to the point where they’re either bankrupted by legal expenses or the Feds just come in and confiscate the servers.

Once the Feds have real names, they can start launching selective and highly-publicized raids, followed by offers of amnesty to anyone who voluntarily turns in their firearms.

Repeat this process a few times and all but the most dedicated gun owners will be turning in their guns.

It’s just a variation of how RIAA has gone after peer-to-peer music and movie downloaders.

As to the rest ... the Feds will start offering substantial bounties, er, “rewards” to people who turn in those they believe to be in possession of illegal weapons. Every neighborhood has a Gladys Kravitz or two, right? Not to mention the usual neighborhood feuds over tree branches, leaves, barking dogs, etc.


12 posted on 01/08/2013 5:47:10 PM PST by tanknetter
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To: arthurus
If everyone is a defined criminal then the government can do what it damn pleases.

It already can.

13 posted on 01/08/2013 5:47:56 PM PST by ez (When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.)
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To: chris37

If they’re going to imprison or kill me for failing to surrender my guns, you can bet your a$$ that I won’t be paying my taxes any longer either!


14 posted on 01/08/2013 5:50:25 PM PST by Malone LaVeigh
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To: ez

yep and there are no drones which can be armed flying over Americans. It is simply a rumor. The elected in D.C. love us to death.


15 posted on 01/08/2013 5:51:29 PM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: RWB Patriot

Gosh ...


16 posted on 01/08/2013 5:52:42 PM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: RWB Patriot

I recently read where there are more firearms....just in the state of Wisconsin, mind you....than in the entire U.S. military.

That’s one, relatively sparseley-populated state.

Let the a**holes try. They will lose. Big time. It won’t be pretty.

See......even we here on FR fall into the same trap. We all say “Well gee golly, the Federal Gubmint has the military on their side with all their HUGE guns and high-tech weaponry and air power and aircraft carriers and.....”.

Yeah...right.

Try to A) get our own military, made up of our brothers, fathers, sons, daughters, wives, etc....to take on their fellow American citizens because of some mulatto, gay, Muslim asshole currently in the Oval Office. Try that....let me know how that works out for ya....and B) try going a level or two lower, no matter how much money you’ve given them to do so, and get local LE entities to enforce this. They don’t have unlimited numbers, they LIVE in their communities, they do NOT want to die, and they are NOT totally stupid. In the big cities, politicians posing as police commissioners will try.....fine. Try it in the rest of the real America and watch your body bags fill.

Then....the sheer numbers. Who in the HELL is really going to be able to enforce such idiocy? Answer: No one. There aren’t enough LEO’s (like all of them would fall in line with the new fascists) to enforce this. Certainly not the so-called “Homeland Security”, or even their cutesy little brown-shirt army they’re trying to raise. What a freakin’ joke.

No, this is a hearts and minds campaign, nothing else. The libs, with AMPLE MSM help, mind you....are failing miserably. This won’t stop them from trying. They know they can never fully control an armed populace, but the bitch of it is.....how can they disarm us without seeing their minions being blown away by the thousands on a daily basis?

Sucks to be a Marxist without the means to implement your plans, doesn’t it?


17 posted on 01/08/2013 5:53:27 PM PST by RightOnline (I am Andrew Breitbart!)
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To: Malone LaVeigh

“Something else the gun grabbers never consider ... If you’re going to criminalize a significant part of the populace, what other laws will we fail to comply with afterwards?”
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

A very good point! I have often read that prohibition of alcohol changed America from a nation of people who obeyed the law out of habit to a nation of people who didn’t necessarily do so any longer. It is actually not possible to be a law abiding citizen in this country now and has not been for a long, long time and it only gets worse. Even lawyers must specialize in a narrow subset of the law to have any hope of dealing with it competently. The average citizen has absolutely no hope of complying even if he devotes himself to the effort. In many cases now a person cannot obey one law without breaking another in the process.
Only chaos can result from this in the end and that is what we have now, the government itself has demonstrated no intention of obeying the law of the land any longer yet government expects the poor citizen to obey. Passing a law should be a last resort when all other ways of coping with a problem have failed. What we really need is to wipe the books of everything except the constitution and start over.


18 posted on 01/08/2013 5:53:55 PM PST by RipSawyer (I was born on Earth, what planet is this?)
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To: arthurus

Yes, even if they don’t take them all immediately, they’re just trying to make their enemies into criminals so they can trump up the charges against them later. One day, they’ll confiscate your 401k (or freeze your credit or whatever), you’ll complain and maybe resist, they will invade your home to find your unregistered weapons, and hold you out as if you were a common criminal all along. And who will come to the aid of a common criminal?


19 posted on 01/08/2013 5:54:51 PM PST by Dr. Pritchett
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To: RWB Patriot
Oh they'll never be able to achieve "total disarmament."

Just like they'll never be able to completely do away with a working flush toilet with a decent size water tank, or a proper shower head...........but try getting your hands on one.

And I don't ever remember registering either of those at all.

20 posted on 01/08/2013 5:57:24 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: RWB Patriot
The Regime will get many of these guns by the slow anaconda method, if they are smart. They will pass various measures to require registration, then a licensing and fee scheme, then massive buyback programs, then criminalization of certain and then expanding classes of weapons: Obamacare will be contingent on all members of the family (including children) saying they have no weapons. Then the authorities will move on the remainder after some number of months and years of attrition of the 300 million guns in private hands. That is a strategy that would have a high possibility of success. The best worst thing they could do is to try for a sweeping confiscation in the next few months or year that will provoke widespread resistance.
21 posted on 01/08/2013 5:58:22 PM PST by Truth29
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To: RWB Patriot
Private sales are the check valve to ensure that the 4473 form is not use as a national registration base.

Any gun you are going to sell do so on the free market for cash.

Don't ask for ID don't ask for a receipt. After 3 or more sales the gun becomes almost untraceable.

22 posted on 01/08/2013 5:59:56 PM PST by riverrunner
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To: RWB Patriot
Confiscation will come later. First, he has to stop the purchase of magazines holding more than 10 bullets, stop the selling of semi-automatic rifles, maybe limiting the amount of ammo one can buy at one time.

On another thread, Biden told the Boston mayor, he and Obama would have gun legislation done by the end of January.

I keep hearing Democrats and Republicans in the senate and house don't want major gun restrive laws. That does not compute with Biden/Obama, so how is it going to happen?

If Obama doesn't get what he wants, can he possibly do it with executive orders?

To me, this is our first battle of this war - the gun restrictions he gets done one way or another.

23 posted on 01/08/2013 6:02:34 PM PST by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: Malone LaVeigh

Indeed, Malone.

I look at it like this.

If my rights given to me by God mean nothing, and if those same rights named in the constitution mean nothing, then the government established by that same constitution means nothing and all of the laws passed by that same government mean nothing.

The left is about to pull the plug on the dam, and everything will be washed away including them.


24 posted on 01/08/2013 6:04:25 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Marcella
restrive = restrictive
25 posted on 01/08/2013 6:06:36 PM PST by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: RWB Patriot
While there indeed may be plans or schemes to disarm Americans, I don't consider these threats credible.

This is, and has been, the wet dream of the Left since well before the GCA of '68. Just because they have not YET been able to realize it does not mean they cannot. Underestimating the lengths to which the Left will go is our greatest danger. THe truth means nothing to them, individuals are "collateral damage" on the way to accomplishing their goals. In their minds, the ends justify the means: "By any means necessary..."

With mentors the likes of Bill Ayres (Terrorist bomber associate) who claimed that some 25,000,000 Americans would have to be eliminated if they could not be reeducated to the thinking of The New Left (Communism), what makes you think they won't do their damndest to make it happen?

The last ballot gave them cause to think that not only has the balance tipped in their direction, but that the rest are so complacent about their rights that they didn't even bother to vote--no matter how much cheating may have skewed those numbers.

Even that that is credible in the minds of many of the American sheep is a sign that they might be able to succeed. If we do not resist with all our might, they will accomplish what they have set out to do.

We are at the point where we have given more ground than we should have ever given, all in the name of being "reasonable". No more. Not one magazine, not one inch, not one caliber, not one rifle, not one handgun, not one cartridge. No More.

26 posted on 01/08/2013 6:09:19 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: RWB Patriot

Agree fully!
Confiscating people’s guns is a dream of every dictator or wanna-be tyrant. The right to bear arms is in the constitution for this very reason.

(Do you know a single person who would actually comply with an “order” to turn over his weapons? ...... see?....)


27 posted on 01/08/2013 6:10:19 PM PST by faithhopecharity
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To: Donkey Odious

What Good Can a Handgun Do Against An Army?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/2312894/posts


28 posted on 01/08/2013 6:11:16 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: Dr. Pritchett
And who will come to the aid of a common criminal?

Make enough "common criminals" and they will come to each other's aid.

29 posted on 01/08/2013 6:14:15 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: chris37

Perfectly said! I agree 100%.

I see it as either...

#1.getting shot trying to hold onto your guns or

#2. getting shot by gubmint folks or criminals sometime after relinquishing them.

I prefer #1.


30 posted on 01/08/2013 6:15:15 PM PST by Mortrey (Impeach President Soros)
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To: RWB Patriot

I am sure that all your local, state, and federal reps have not heard from you lately. Make sure they all do. Be polite but to the point and very firm. Then clean and grease all your guns if they need it.


31 posted on 01/08/2013 6:18:28 PM PST by bmwcyle (We have gone over the cliff and we are about to hit the bottom)
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To: RWB Patriot

It’s no fantasy. I’m already unconstitutionally less well-armed than your average Libian jihadi.


32 posted on 01/08/2013 6:19:15 PM PST by The Toll
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To: RWB Patriot

Praying that he is correct Ping!


33 posted on 01/08/2013 6:22:51 PM PST by Voice of Reason88 ( Freedom is never lost all at once - Edmund Burke)
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To: arderkrag

Of course, this is exactly why the Oppressive-Socialists go for the step of registration – Lying through their teeth that they aren’t going to Confiscate…… sure and Obama is an honest man.


34 posted on 01/08/2013 6:26:26 PM PST by Voice of Reason88 ( Freedom is never lost all at once - Edmund Burke)
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To: The Toll
less well-armed than your average Libian jihadi

yep, we best all be expert shots, if they come, and they will come, if the shooting starts.

35 posted on 01/08/2013 6:29:22 PM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: tanknetter; RWB Patriot; jimbobfoster; GenXteacher; Malone LaVeigh; chris37; arthurus; ...
“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

36 posted on 01/08/2013 6:32:01 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: arderkrag; All
The Statists do not really care that much if they actually confiscate all the guns. The primary goal is to make them illegitimate, except for those that are registered.

Gun Registration is Gun Confiscation

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2012/12/gun-registration-is-gun-confiscation.html

37 posted on 01/08/2013 6:34:14 PM PST by marktwain
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To: Mortrey

Reminds me of a quote from a damn good actor in a movie I have come to appreciate over time.

"You're all gonna die. The only question is how you check out. Do you want it on your feet? Or on your f*ckin' knees... begging? I ain't much for begging!" -Charles S. Dutton

38 posted on 01/08/2013 6:40:10 PM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: RWB Patriot

“Rifle behind every blade of grass”

“The numbers of gun owners is WAY higher than the number of willing US military people...”

Blah, blah, blah.

History is REPLETE with examples of small, very well-organized groups being able to defeat a much larger, disorganized foe.

Cortez conquered all of Mexico and destroyed the Aztec capitol with just 600 men.

And how motivated is the opposition? Morocco Bomber stole the election and the loudest kvetching was HERE and talk radio—from the rest of the country there was barely a peep.

Should confiscation come, that, too, is how it will go, for 99.5% of people.


39 posted on 01/08/2013 6:43:20 PM PST by gaijin
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To: jimbobfoster

“but that doesn’t mean they won’t try.”

You are correct and it won’t be in one fell swoop. It’ll be one county at a time or even one neighborhood at a time.

That is the way the feral gov’t did with school integration and other unpopular laws. One school at a time.

Had they said, “OK, all schools have to integrate now”, then there would have been an uprising. One neighborhood at a time will avert the uprising.


40 posted on 01/08/2013 6:47:09 PM PST by spel_grammer_an_punct_polise (Learn three chords and you, too, can be a Rock Star!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.”
-—Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).


41 posted on 01/08/2013 6:50:47 PM PST by faithhopecharity
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To: RipSawyer
There's a passage in Atlas Shrugged where the govt minion admitted that they never had any intention of having folks comply with idiotic laws/regulations - they want the laws where almost everybody is a criminal. That way the populace is easier to control. Anyone can be arrested on govt whim.
42 posted on 01/08/2013 7:11:42 PM PST by Martin Tell (ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it)
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To: Marcella
>> First, he has to stop the purchase of magazines holding more than 10 bullets

A metal box with a spring in it. Amazing what liberals are afraid of. If they ever succeed in doing this, I guarantee that 20 million people will take up a new hobby: garage machinist.

43 posted on 01/08/2013 7:11:48 PM PST by NewJerseyJoe (Rat mantra: "Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!")
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To: Smokin' Joe

“...individuals are “collateral damage” on the way to accomplishing their goals. In their minds, the ends justify the means: “By any means necessary...”

That has to be turned back on them. The only way to stop Marxists is to make all the ‘collateral damage’ their families and friends.

Because of who conservatives are, it will be the hardest thing any of us ever have to do.


44 posted on 01/08/2013 7:12:52 PM PST by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: NewJerseyJoe
I guarantee that 20 million people will take up a new hobby: garage machinist.

Already the case in California where they have "build parties". Apparently, in the Gun Control Capital of the USA -- if you build it at home, you aren't required to register it.

Since California passed its Assault Weapons Ban in 1989, the residents have constructed millions of AR and AK type rifles.

All of those are off the books. All of them are quite legal.

Now, expand that to all 50 States. Not going to go too well for the Gun Grabbers, is it?

45 posted on 01/08/2013 7:24:35 PM PST by superloser
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To: tanknetter; 2ndDivisionVet

But if each freeper said they owned a gun.....

;)


46 posted on 01/08/2013 7:51:37 PM PST by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: Repeat Offender
Just like they'll never be able to completely do away with a working flush toilet with a decent size water tank, or a proper shower head...........but try getting your hands on one.

I'm using them 33 years after I installed them.

47 posted on 01/08/2013 7:56:49 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (Carry a Gun, It's a Lighter Burden Than Regret)
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To: RightOnline

As has been posted here already, this was essentially discussed by Solzhenitsyn before. Though I believe that nearly all of the military and a significant portion of law enforcement would not comply with orders to confiscate weapons from private citizens, my argument (and Solzhenitsyn’s) does not depend on it. Once the confiscators start dying - and in such a scenario, they most certainly would - the remaining designated confiscators would quit.

It’s as simple as that.


48 posted on 01/08/2013 7:56:56 PM PST by flintsilver7 (Honest reporting hasn't caught on in the United States.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
BTTT

Dear Mr. Security Agent: A letter to law enforcement



49 posted on 01/08/2013 7:57:31 PM PST by EdReform (Oath Keepers - Guardians of the Republic - Honor your oath - Join us: www.oathkeepers.org)
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To: Repeat Offender

mechanical items such as toilets and shower heads can be modified to operate “properly”.

Lawyers think abstractly and in narrow confines.

Engineers think tangibly and “outside the box”.

(Apply this to Congress and that’s how we got in the pickle we’re in; was intended to be part time....)


50 posted on 01/08/2013 8:01:33 PM PST by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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