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What does the Republican Party Want?
Dan Miller's Blog ^ | January 12, 2013 | Dan Miller

Posted on 01/12/2013 1:39:44 PM PST by DanMiller

Reelection of its incumbents and power of course, but what else matters? Anything?

An article by Scott Rasmussen published yesterday contends that

Just a few days after reaching [the fiscal cliff] agreement, an inside-the-Beltway publication reported another area of bipartisan agreement. Politico explained that while Washington Democrats have always viewed GOP voters as a problem, Washington Republicans "in many a post-election soul-searching session" have come to agree. More precisely, the article said the party's Election 2012 failures have "brought forth one principal conclusion from establishment Republicans: They have a primary problem."

As seen from the halls of power, the problem is that Republican voters think it's OK to replace incumbent senators and congressman who don't represent the views of their constituents. In 2012, for example, Republican voters in Indiana dumped longtime Sen. Richard Lugar in a primary battle.

. . . .

So, according to Politico, the Washington team is gearing up a new effort to protect incumbents and limit the ability of Republican voters to successfully challenge establishment candidates. (Emphasis added.)

That makes sense to those whose sole goal is winning a majority in Congress rather than changing the course of government policy. Seen from the outside, though, it sounds like the professional politicians are saying that the only way to win is to pick more candidates like the insiders. Hearing that message, the reaction of many Republican and conservative voters is, "Why bother?" (Emphasis added.)

That's why more than two-thirds of Republican voters believe GOP officials in Washington have lost touch with the party's base.

The Republican establishment has two choices. They can act as mature party leaders of a national political party, or they can protect their own self-interest.

There are good reasons for conservative voters to "bother." If we don't, who will? Party leaders won't; they seem comfortable with things as they are. When the time comes to vote, most "honorable members" leave their consciences if not their brains outside and do as their party leaders tell them to. Those who reject party control can be stripped of committee assignments and otherwise disciplined. Hence, few reject party control.

[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B55YgD1gr0c?feature=player_detailpage]

Video link

Here's another video. Relevant? Substitute "U.S. Senate" for "House of Peers" and it makes a bit of contextual sense. The Senate was, after all, modeled on the House of Peers as the House was modeled on the House of Commons.

[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeUAWXUw_iI?feature=player_detailpage]

Video link

Should the Senate emulate the House of Peers by doing nothing -- and doing it very well? The Senate has been doing a lot of that. However, since no legislation can pass without approval by both houses, doing nothing can be good or bad depending on what one wants done. Doing nothing well -- as in doing everything badly -- is a bit different; both houses do much of that.

More seriously, the Republican Party is evidently trying to appear "moderate" to appeal to more voters and thereby ensure the reelection of its favored incumbents. That requires it to move ever leftward in tandem with the Democrat Party. Former House Speaker Pelosi seems to like their strategy.

When fiscal cliff legislation passed with mainly Democratic votes, Republicans griped, “Who’s the Speaker?” It was humiliating for the GOP majority to play the handmaiden to minority leader Nancy Pelosi. Asked if the lopsided vote makes her the de facto Speaker of the House, Pelosi demurred, coyly saying “not quite,” and reveling in her renewed clout. After the Democrats failed to regain control of the House in last year’s election, Pelosi appeared headed for a largely symbolic role as leader of the minority party in a chamber where the majority rules with an iron hand.

Republican infighting turned that assumption on its head with Pelosi suddenly looking stronger and more relevant than anybody anticipated, and not just because of Democratic votes that avoided the fiscal cliff. Unlike her counterpart on the Republican side, Pelosi is a leader with a firm lock on her caucus.

BoehnerJohnCrying1

Does Speaker Boehner want President Obama to kiss him too? Sometimes it seems as though he does.

obama kisses pelosi

It can probably be arranged. For a price -- if we are willing to pay it and if we fail to be as effective in purging librul Republicans as Speaker Boehner has been in purging conservative Republicans.

Does Speaker Boehner want the Republican Party to move further and further leftward in tandem with the Democrat Party? If so, a strategy of appealing to the largest and most diverse audience possible makes sense, just as it would if the party were peddling soap or breakfast cereal. That may be its marketing strategy, but if conservatives are to have a strong voice in Government it leaves us with little choice beyond going elsewhere.

What should be the Republican Party's job?

As a minority party, its job should be to prevent the majority party from injuring America beyond restoration, using every lawful substantive and procedural ploy in its arsenal. That it can't do so perfectly is no excuse for not trying or for backing off when it becomes inconvenient to continue. As a majority party (should that ever happen again) its job will be to rectify mistakes made by the previous majority party, to make as few more of them as possible and to move the nation bit by bit to the right. Is the Republican Party as presently constituted capable of doing that?

Beyond that, its most important job, whether in or out of power, is to demand rigorous adherence to the Constitution -- the charter upon which our Federal Government was uniquely founded. It must do that not only when it is popular but also when it is unpopular. That's one of the reasons why we have a Federal Republic, rather than a democracy based on popular vote -- something modern technology has made it easy to have if we wanted it. We don't and shouldn't.

To the extent that the Constitution is diminished so is the nation. It was intentionally made very difficult to amend. It can be amended if necessary, but in no event should it be evaded, avoided, ignored or otherwise treated as optional. We have seen the results when that happens. Want an example?

Venezuela -- a model democracy?

Anyone who hasn't been paying attention to the situation in Venezuela might want to go here and read a dozen or so recent articles. Need more? Here's an article I wrote in May of last year. Here's another.

When el Presidente Chávez took office in 1999, he began only slowly to implement his “reforms.” To a casual observer, few changes were apparent in Venezuela between 1997 when my wife and I first arrived and late 2001 when we left, probably never to return. We had a few concerns about the future of the country under Chávez but they were low on our list of reasons not to buy land and build our home in the state of Merida, up in the Andes. Mainly, we wanted to continue sailing and Merida is inconveniently far from an ocean.

Chávez’ initiatives increased dramatically in number and in magnitude only when he was well into his seemingly endless terms in office. Maybe he had heard the story of the frog put into a pleasantly warm but slowly heating pot of water. The frog failed to realize until too late that he was being boiled for dinner. By then the frog had become unable to jump out of the pot.

Boiled Frogs New

Now in his second (and, one hopes, final term) President Obama has flexibility not dramatically less than did el Presidente Chávez once his power was well on the way to becoming firmly established. Perhaps the frogs are beginning to feel the heat; perhaps that will come later.

As Chávez steps into history, should Venezuela be our nation's role model?

h/t Devil's Excrement

h/t Devil's Excrement

Where are we going?

[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBqjZ0KZCa0?feature=player_detailpage]

Video link

Even leaving the Constitution aside, how many others like this are there now? Somebody has to be held accountable and pay. But gosh darn! Who should it be? As they and others in comparable circumstances continue to multiply, how many more will there be as their children mature sufficiently to reproduce and for little else? And reproduce. And reproduce. Here's a longer version if anyone is interested.

How frequently is that pitiful scene repeated across the nation now? If spending on the welfare state continues to grow, how often will the scene be repeated over the next decade or two?

free stuff

Personal responsibility? What's that? Who should take care of her children and other consequences of personal irresponsibility funded by a "compassionate" Government at the expense of us all? Should we ask el Commandante Chávez? As long as his now uncertain ability to care for his people continues, support for him can remain a viable substitute for personal responsibility. Should we ask El Commandante President Obama? He has many other important priorities.

Obama bring a gun

Freedom cannot exist without personal responsibility. Illusions of freedom can but should be unacceptable.

An illusion of freedom can be seen as real no less than can a 3D motion picture; when the movie bad guy throws a knife into the audience, some may duck but even then they understand that the knife illusion can't hurt them. In that sense, the knife illusion is preferable to a real knife. Most who prefer the illusion of freedom to actual freedom are probably aware of the differences between a real knife and the illusion of one in a 3D motion picture. Do they prefer an illusion of freedom to its reality because reality includes the freedom to fail -- and to suffer the consequences -- as well as the freedom to succeed? The illusion of freedom increasingly causes the consequences of failure to be imposed on others. Some probably like that. Others perhaps prefer the illusion without thinking; or maybe they enjoy the illusion that they are thinking about it.

Recognition of the possibility of failure is an impetus to do the work needed to succeed. The chances of success for those who do not recognize the possibility of failure -- and hence the need to pay attention to what they have to do avoid it -- are slim.

A "compassionate" Government seeks to prevent the failure of its favorites or at least to cushion their landings. The leadership of the Republican Party should realize that it is fully capable of failure and that, unlike Democrat Party supporters, the consequences of their failures are unlikely to be cushioned by a "compassionate" Democrat Government. If the Republican Party has not already failed its chances of doing so are high and increasing. If it does not take remedial action, starting now, the rest of us need to prepare for its demise by birthing its replacement. That kid had better mature and take responsibility fast, because if he doesn't it will probably be too late.


TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: boehner; conservatives; obama; pelosi
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What should we do? Any other ideas?
1 posted on 01/12/2013 1:39:57 PM PST by DanMiller
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To: DanMiller

Sammich maker for the Rats.


2 posted on 01/12/2013 1:41:19 PM PST by deadrock
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To: DanMiller

Get involved in you local GOP and change things. Griping on the internet is not going to get it done.


3 posted on 01/12/2013 1:50:38 PM PST by Sarabaracuda (Glenn Beck is right. Victory through peaceful resistance.)
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To: DanMiller

Stop voting Liberal

Voting for a Liberal with an R next to its name is still voting Liberal

The GOP better wake up and get over its Liberal fetish. If it think it can win with coalitions of Illegal Aliens and NE Liberals....good riddance. The conservative base will go elsewhere


4 posted on 01/12/2013 2:04:28 PM PST by SeminoleCounty (The only automatic weapon is the one Obama uses to take your paycheck)
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To: Sarabaracuda; DanMiller
*correct*
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting
the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
... Thomas Jefferson
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_jefferson.html#XMfWMtdvwdLi5JTP.99

5 posted on 01/12/2013 2:21:48 PM PST by skinkinthegrass (who'll take tomorrow,spend it all today;who can take your income,tax it all away..0'Bozo man can :-)
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To: DanMiller
The Senate was, after all, modeled on the House of Peers . . .

Not exactly, but that aside, the Framers learned from the eleven year experience of the States since the Declaration. The first State constitutions leaned heavily on the "democratic" side, most with strong legislatures derived entirely from the people, and purposely weak governors. These popular State governments were unstable and abusive of property rights.

Our Framers knew the source of the troubles, the people and corrected the problem at the national level with a Senate NOT derived from the people. That lesson was apparently forgotten with the 17th Amendment.

Our "Senators," of six year terms present a far greater threat to our liberties that our Framers understood. They are just as subject to the whims of the popular mob, and react in the same fashion as Congressmen.

As long as the 17th Amendment, and its sister in evil, the 16th, remain, there is little hope for our republic.

6 posted on 01/12/2013 2:31:29 PM PST by Jacquerie ("How few were left who had seen the republic!" - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: Jacquerie; BillyBoy

This notion many FReepers have that abolishing the 17th will somehow serve as a (partial) panacea for what ails Congress is a sadly misguided one. It was passed in the first place precisely because the Senate had become corrupted and unaccountable.


7 posted on 01/12/2013 2:54:58 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: DanMiller

The Republican party is a joke. Boehner and the other so-called “leaders” are Obama’s Monica Lewinksy! They even bring their own kneepads! The Republicans are done. They are as corrupt as the Democrats and serve the same true masters - the NWO elite who want to destroy this country and crush the American spirit.


8 posted on 01/12/2013 3:19:07 PM PST by Astronaut
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To: fieldmarshaldj
State governments proved in quick time that 100% popularly derived legislatures were dangerous. Our political history since passage of the 17th is more or less a reflection of that short period, 1776-1787, a muddle of populism that has damaged our property rights.

As for eliminating corruption, as the 17th was designed to do, it was a failure, yes?

I didn't say repeal of the 17th was a panacea. Repeal is necessary, but not by any means alone sufficient to restore federal government, our republic and liberty.

9 posted on 01/12/2013 3:26:10 PM PST by Jacquerie ("How few were left who had seen the republic!" - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: Jacquerie; BillyBoy; Impy; Clintonfatigued; AuH2ORepublican; Clemenza; Perdogg; GOPsterinMA; ...

I find myself having to address the misguidedness of the anti-17thers almost weekly. Simply put, I do not trust my elected state legislators (although a GOP majority in my state, my state Senator & Rep. are leftist Dem buffoons) to elect my Senators. Indeed, it would remove the last office other than Governor I have any say in (since my U.S. House seat hasn’t elected a Republican since President Grant won reelection in 1872). Those are my personal reasons.

As for other reasons, restoring legislative selection for Senators would assure that Democrat states never have a competitive race again (as distasteful as some FReepers find Scott Brown in MA to be, it would be absolutely impossible for him to get past a legislature almost 90% Democrat). Other states like Illinois would not have been able to elect a GOP Senator since 1980. In states where we do dominate, the Republicans elected would be establishment flunkies.

Texas, for example, would’ve never allowed Ted Cruz to reach the Senate, because the liberal RINO Lt Governor David Dewhurst (AKA “DewCrist) would’ve used every method at his disposal to ensure his election (indeed, he was strong-arming legislators in the primary to pimp for his candidacy, lest they lose important committee positions).

Indeed, you would have Democrat states sending the most horrid members without an ounce of accountability to the public (Harry Reid would never have to worry about reelection in NV removing the popular vote) and Republican states would send squishies and go along to get along RINOs. If Texas wouldn’t send a Conservative under such a model, how exactly do you think the new Senate would be ?

If I thought for a moment this would be an improvement, I’d support repeal, but I’ve looked at it backwards and forwards and there’s nothing that would contribute to its reigning in of the federal government size and restoration of states’ rights. Indeed, what you’re doing is putting the full faith and trust IN government to choose your Senators. Government officials are the last people I’d want choosing them.


10 posted on 01/12/2013 4:03:13 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: DanMiller
Abandon ship.

Republicans want to win without having to either campaign or govern. The party also has this "dues paid" mentality that keeps giving us the likes of Dole, McCain, Romney, both Bushes, ad nauseum.

A lot of Republicans are very tired of voting for "not the democrat".

11 posted on 01/12/2013 4:10:34 PM PST by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: DanMiller

The GOP wants Big Government and to be perpetual losers to the Democrats.


12 posted on 01/12/2013 4:15:35 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

Sorry. History is on my side, not yours.


13 posted on 01/12/2013 5:22:09 PM PST by Jacquerie ("How few were left who had seen the republic!" - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

My understanding of the Founding Fathers decision to elect Representatives and Senators in a different manner is that it was to serve as a check and balance. They were not going to have a House of Lords and a House of Commons (and look at how that changed), but they saw the need for representation for both the average citizen, and for the wealthy. The tyranny of the inner city voting bloc is no better than any other tyranny. It is possible that electing Senators by state legislators would still be a problem. In the more rural states, it would result in a different kind of Senator being elected. The history of politics in the US shows that there has always been an attempt by the large cities to control everything in the country, and this has been resisted by the people living outside of the cities. And, we aren’t the only country with this conflict. The Khmer Rouge forced all the people out of the cities in Cambodia to relearn the truths of an agrarian lifestyle. Their solution was to put plastic bags over the heads of the city people who disagreed with them.


14 posted on 01/12/2013 5:25:31 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Jacquerie

That’s not a valid argument. If you’re willing to defend repeal of the 17th, try addressing my points.


15 posted on 01/12/2013 5:27:59 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: blueunicorn6
"It is possible that electing Senators by state legislators would still be a problem."

Not only possible, but definitely. The Texas example on the GOP side alone, nevermind what Illinois, Massachusetts, California, et al, would produce on the Democrat side (and that there would be zero chance of anything Republican getting elected). Corruption and unaccountability was already an epidemic problem by the 1910s. The makeup of a Senate under a repealed 17th with an even more elitist and corrupt ultraleft Democrat membership, combined with a "moderate milquetoast RINO" big gubmint contingent would make a bad situation even worse.

16 posted on 01/12/2013 5:42:16 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: DanMiller

Eff the Republican Party. You are an American first or not. Party afilliations be damned


17 posted on 01/12/2013 8:23:47 PM PST by Figment
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To: fieldmarshaldj; DarthVader; BillyBoy; Impy; Clintonfatigued; AuH2ORepublican; Clemenza; Perdogg; ...

This is cool!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity/sean-connery-set-to-join-fellow-1525163


18 posted on 01/13/2013 9:28:22 AM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GOPsterinMA; Perdogg

Who gets to carry Barry Nelson’s urn ?


19 posted on 01/13/2013 12:59:12 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: fieldmarshaldj; Perdogg

Not sure.

I did send a request in that you stand in for Hervé Villechaize.


20 posted on 01/13/2013 2:01:15 PM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

Yeah that would be way cool Adele singing as they walk on to the stage..


21 posted on 01/13/2013 2:23:28 PM PST by GSP.FAN (Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

I don’t have Hervé’s stunning physique.


22 posted on 01/13/2013 2:31:26 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: GSP.FAN

I hate that chubby...


23 posted on 01/13/2013 2:36:06 PM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

Start working out then.


24 posted on 01/13/2013 2:37:03 PM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

I heard she has an insulin pump,like her now.


25 posted on 01/13/2013 2:43:15 PM PST by GSP.FAN (Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.)
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To: GSP.FAN

If they had Tom Jones sing Thunderball, I’d throw my skivies at him!


26 posted on 01/13/2013 2:47:10 PM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GSP.FAN; GOPsterinMA
"I heard she has an insulin pump, like her now."

I didn't know you were GOPster's nephew, GSP.

27 posted on 01/13/2013 2:57:09 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: GSP.FAN

Hey, that’s not me!


28 posted on 01/13/2013 2:59:20 PM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: DanMiller
I recently received a letter from Rience Previs, spelling of name is phonetic, asking for input and funds. I have replied that until, and unless, the Republican party acknowledges and publicly supports an investigation into voter fraud, nationally and regionally, I will not have confidence that the party can actually win a national election. Further, our financial support will only go to local candidates,possibly state, until our votes are secure from theft. That is a starter for what is an absolute must for the Republican leadership to attend to ASAP if it wants to encourage members to listen to anything else they may have in mind.
29 posted on 01/13/2013 2:59:52 PM PST by mountainfolk (God Bless the United States of America and the Republic for which is stands.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj; GSP.FAN

HEY!!!

That’s my nephew, NOT me!!!


30 posted on 01/13/2013 3:00:32 PM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

Wha ?


31 posted on 01/13/2013 3:29:29 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

My nephew is the pump freak...I have other proclivities.


32 posted on 01/13/2013 3:35:00 PM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

I asked if GSP was your nephew because of that comment.


33 posted on 01/13/2013 3:40:02 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

He’s not, Tattoo.


34 posted on 01/13/2013 3:47:32 PM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: SeminoleCounty
Here is a reality check--there is no other place to go. There is only staying extremely active in the Republican party an influencing it to go the direction you desire.

WE use the primaries to direct the party the direction we want to go and then use the general election to make sure we get ALL Republicans elected until we get another shot at a primary.

35 posted on 01/13/2013 3:52:03 PM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: fieldmarshaldj; GOPsterinMA

Craig should balance it on his head and try to keep it there while Connery and Dalton kick him in the balls.


36 posted on 01/14/2013 4:51:17 PM PST by Impy (All in favor of Harry Reid meeting Mr. Mayhem?)
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma

You got it granny.

It amazes me how many people bray about third parties. You can look at 1912 (or Canada from 1993-2004) to see what that would mean. If conservatives can’t take over the GOP then we sure as hell can’t start a third party and drive it out of business either.


37 posted on 01/14/2013 4:55:46 PM PST by Impy (All in favor of Harry Reid meeting Mr. Mayhem?)
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To: fieldmarshaldj; BillyBoy; AuH2ORepublican; GOPsterinMA; Perdogg; sickoflibs

I’m really amazed how often people bring up this idea that would magically “restore the Republic” especially considering it has as much a chance of ever happening as Sarah Shahi inviting me to her Golden Globes after party and when I get there it’s just her and she’s wearing a dress made only of whipped cream.

Wanna restore constitutional government? Process isn’t the problem, leftists are.

Wanna repeal an amendment? How about the 16th?

Or how about the the 19th? Just kidding ladies!! (or am I?)

Also repeal section 2 of the 21st amendment. There is a lot of Byzantine corruption in those states with onerous liquor laws, distribution monopolies, ect. And violating section 2 is only way an ordinary citizen can violate the constitution other than enslaving someone, think about that.


38 posted on 01/14/2013 5:17:13 PM PST by Impy (All in favor of Harry Reid meeting Mr. Mayhem?)
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To: Impy
No kidding, I love it when someone on FR makes sense. I don't know where these "third partiers" think they can possibly find enough voters to win an election after they're done fracturing the Republican party in two.

That's just part of their faulty judgement. The other is that these so-called leaders of these pure parties are also human like everyone else and it wouldn't be long until those involved with these pure people would become disenchanted with them, too. It's human nature. We had better figure it out that we only have one viable way to deal with this: First, vote for the most conservative, that can win, in the primary and after that, vote straight Republican. There is no other sane method.

39 posted on 01/14/2013 5:56:50 PM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: Impy; fieldmarshaldj; BillyBoy; AuH2ORepublican; GOPsterinMA; Perdogg; sickoflibs
>> I’m really amazed how often people bring up this idea that would magically “restore the Republic” especially considering it has as much a chance of ever happening as Sarah Shahi inviting me to her Golden Globes after party and when I get there it’s just her and she’s wearing a dress made only of whipped cream. <<

Part of the problem is the anti-17th amendment crowd wants to live in their "tonight we're gonna party like it's 1789" fantasy and not take into account that the state legislatures themselves have changed VASTLY from what they were when "the founders" wrote that amendment. If James Madison or Thomas Jefferson could arrive in a time machine and see the way state legislatures are run TODAY, I doubt they'd trust these people to elect the Senate's dog catcher. For example, the Illinois State Senate is vastly different from the U.S. Senate is because the Illinois State Senate is drawn solely by population, so Chicago-based districts make up half the seats. Under the "1 man, 1 vote" rule, you can't design the Illinois Senate to look like the U.S. Senate and be based on geographic interests, so Chicago gets overrepresented in BOTH houses at the expense of the rest of Illinois. Unless you can return the state legislatures to the type of government they had when "the founders" wrote the constitution, repealing the 17th wouldn't accomplish anything except giving crooked politicians more power.

>> Wanna restore constitutional government? Process isn’t the problem, leftists are. <<

The ridiculous thing here is there are a lot of realistic things that conservatives COULD accomplish at the state level to prevent numerous problems from the 2012 election from occurring again. For example, the constitution is silent about how states can allocate their electoral votes, so in the swing states where we're repeatedly failed to win statewide because of the RAT's GOTV urban machines, the state legislators could adapt the Maine/Nebraska system by majority vote. I believe there's at least four swing states right now where we have a GOP majority in both houses to do this (Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, etc.) It would instantly give us access to numerous electoral votes in 2016 in those states when we're gotten a big fat 0 electoral votes out of them ever since 1992.

But are conservatives talking about and organizing reforms like that? No, they're passing meaningless secession petitions, calling on Obama to be impeached, demanding the 17th be repealed so corrupt RAT legislators can appoint Senators for life, etc., none of which has a snowball's chance in hell of happening. They might as well pass a resolution declaring Ronald Reagan is the "honorary" President now so they can feel good about their circle jerk.

>> Wanna repeal an amendment? How about the 16th? Or how about the the 19th? Just kidding ladies!! (or am I?) Also repeal section 2 of the 21st amendment. There is a lot of Byzantine corruption in those states with onerous liquor laws, distribution monopolies, ect. And violating section 2 is only way an ordinary citizen can violate the constitution other than enslaving someone, think about that. <<

They can blather on all they want about "the founders", it doesn't change that it goes against Conservatism 101 to claim politicians make better decisions for us than the individual does. If the argument is "the founders were ALWAYS right!!" then they might as well add in a repeal of the 12th as a package deal and start demanding Mitt Romney get sworn in as veep because "the founders" thought it was a good idea. They need to start writing talking points about how "our Republic was destroyed" because Al Gore didn't get to be Bush's veep. The rebuttal to the "runner up candidates make bad veeps" response can be "If you don't like the Vice President, MOVE!" Let's be consistent after all. ;-)

But if we wanna have fun with meaningless exercises to "repeal" amendments, then at least focus on repealing amendments that ALL conservatives would agree on That means the 16th for sure. Also, repeal the 23rd, I'm pretty sure all conservatives could get behind that one, even if AuH2ORepublican's proposal for a "state of new Columbia" with the liberal Virginia and Maryland suburbs isn't addressed. In any case, just repealing the 23rd on its own would "disenfranchise" those hard-left socialists who live in D.C. and that's music to my ears. No electoral votes for you!
::insert graphic of Nelson from the Simpsons pointing and laughing::

40 posted on 01/15/2013 11:27:48 PM PST by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: DanMiller

Civil War II between the Red and the Blue states.


41 posted on 01/15/2013 11:38:00 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: BillyBoy

If the 17th amendment had never happened the Senate would be Republican and more conservative. FACT.


42 posted on 01/15/2013 11:39:55 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

It might be more Republican at present, but how’d you like a Senate full of country clubber big gubmint accommodationists ? That’s what you’d have. Ted Cruz ? Nope. Kentucky would’ve been sending Democrats, because the KY House is still majority Democrat. No Rand Paul but those typical Southern-fried “fake” Conservative Democrats of the Manchin (or worse) vintage... if not Robert Byrd.

Of course, you being a Virginian, I can understand your frustration having a GOP legislature with two execrable urban leftist Democrat Senators and that the 17th would stop that dead in its tracks. Problem is, again, you’d have John Warner types or more like my 2 Senators in TN, the epitome of the party establishment (and those two would be easily elected by the state legislature, no question, though we would not have had a GOP Senator elected from the 1870s until 2009 with the 17th repeal — and you guys wouldn’t have had them from the Readjuster period until the ‘90s).


43 posted on 01/15/2013 11:57:01 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

It is not a zero sum game. If the 17th were repealed then state politics would get the attention it deserves, most people don’t even know the name of the state representative. Repealing the 17th would change that if that state rep was selecting your US Senator.


44 posted on 01/16/2013 12:00:15 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va
>> If the 17th amendment had never happened the Senate would be Republican and more conservative. FACT. <<

Nope. Saying it's a FACT doesn't it one (another anti-17th amendment conservative told me it was a "FACT" the Senate would have never passed Obamacare if there was no 17th, and that certainly wasn't a fact since the majority of state legislatures in America were Democrat at the time Obamacare was being considered by the Senate, and they would have thus appointed socialist Obama flunkies)

If you're talking about the overall Senate makeup since 1913, it definitely wouldn't be a "FACT" since Democrats had firm control of a majority of state legislatures at numerous times since 1913.

If you're talking about this exact moment, yes, there would be more Republicans in the Senate at present than there are under the popular vote method. But it is not a fact they'd be more conservative. The GOP establishment party bosses in most states are warily of "tea party types" they can't "control", and the vast majority of appointed Senators chosen by state government has been mostly low-key, don't-rock-the-boat party hacks and yes-men. I believe the most likely scenario is most of the appointed Republican Senators would be less conservative than their elected counterparts.

45 posted on 01/16/2013 12:05:11 AM PST by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: central_va; fieldmarshaldj; Impy
>> Repealing the 17th would change that if that state rep was selecting your US Senator. <<

My state rep would have no say whatsoever in selecting my US Senator. Illinois Speaker of the House Mike Madigan would pick one behind closed doors, and she would duly rubber stamp whoever he told her to.

46 posted on 01/16/2013 12:07:14 AM PST by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: BillyBoy

Well because YOU live in a corrupt state doesn’t mean we all have to see it YOUR way from Yankeeland. I couldn’t live there, It is a sh1t hole up there.


47 posted on 01/16/2013 12:09:51 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va; fieldmarshaldj; Impy
>> state politics would get the attention it deserves, most people don’t even know the name of the state representative. Repealing the 17th would change that <<

I live in a gerrymandered state house district that is 80% suburban and 20% urban. The 20% urban portion are improvised black neighborhoods full of violence that vote 95% Dem and have nothing in common with the rest of the district but have an huge influence in the results overall because their overwhelmingly Dem tilt.

Why would repeal of the 17th cause them to "pay more attention" to who the candidates are? Right now their own concern is locating which one has a "D" next to their name. (Ideally they'd prefer a black state rep., however due to demographics, Madigan ensures a white suburban Dem in the RAT candidate).

48 posted on 01/16/2013 12:14:31 AM PST by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: central_va
>> Well because YOU live in a corrupt state doesn’t mean we all have to see it YOUR way from Yankeeland. <<

Look at the 2008 and 2012 election results and tell me how many of the states voted AGAINST the communist upsurger? It seems a clear majority of them did, including your "conservative" state. Why is that? Just because you want to PRETEND most states aren't corrupt and filled with vote fraud, doesn't make that a reality.

49 posted on 01/16/2013 12:17:22 AM PST by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: BillyBoy

Who cares? Illinois is going to have 2 liberal Senators anyway. You live in a one party corrupt state, similar to most Yankee states, so quit imposing your crap on the rest of us. Repealing the 17th would vastly improve the Senate for most of the non corrupt sates. My advice get out there. Move to Texas or somewhere south. Shouting from inside the toilet that is smell like crap is stupid, get out of the toilet.


50 posted on 01/16/2013 12:19:53 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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