Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Obama Gun Control Executive Order: Is Defense Pick Chuck Hagel a Factor?
PolicyMic ^ | January 12, 2013 | George Ertel

Posted on 01/12/2013 7:20:06 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

In the three years President Barack Obama represented Illinois in the Senate, he became aware of maverick Senator Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.). They served together on the Foreign Relations committee. It became clear to both men that they shared an antipathy for the war as well as for then-President Bush. In 2008, as Obama ran for the presidency, Hagel joined him on a tour of Iraq and Afghanistan. Once Obama was elected, Hagel, having retired from the Senate after two terms, served on the president's Intelligence Advisory and Defense Policy Boards.

In January, President Obama nominated Hagel to be the country's next Secretary of Defense, as Leon Panetta wraps up his own distinguished career in a variety of public service offices. During Panetta's days in the Obama administration, he has taken some positions that indicate an independent awareness of what is best for the nation.

Would Hagel be as strong? Is Hagel a person who would take contrarian stands if he felt his boss were wrong? What conflict might arise between the president and this prospective Defense secretary, and how might a clash of wills between them play out?

To consider this, recall what the office of Secretary of Defense addresses. Historically, the scope of the Secretary of Defense covered policy, planning, procurement, and performance for national defense from foreign threats. Internal security, when deemed a national issue, is outside the DOD mission and is maintained and enforced by the "alphabet agencies," such as the FBI, BATF, DEA, and TSA. Of course, most internal security matters are local and dealt with by state and community police forces.

But think about the political climate today...

(Excerpt) Read more at policymic.com ...


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Government; Military/Veterans; Politics
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; hagel; obama; secondamendment

1 posted on 01/12/2013 7:20:12 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Yeah, Hagel’s the kind of guy who’d turn tanks on American civilians, but given his attitude toward Jews those guys in New York City and Connecticut might well be in some serious trouble long before everybody else.


2 posted on 01/12/2013 7:31:32 PM PST by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

I just don’t see Obama trying to pass any type of weapon or magazine ban through executive order. First of all, I doubt seriously that it would be legal. Secondly, going around Congress smacks of totalitarianism. Thirdly, he’ll likely upset pro-gun Democrats as well. The only way for him to effectively implement new gun control laws is through Congress, and I just gave my doubts that it happens this year.


3 posted on 01/12/2013 7:42:49 PM PST by EagleInGA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

I think Hagel was picked to send a message to Israel; “We don’t have your back if you attack Iran.”


4 posted on 01/12/2013 7:46:25 PM PST by csmusaret (I will give Obama credit for one thing- he is living proof that familiarity breeds contempt.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EagleInGA

I don’t know. Of course it wouldn’t be legal, myself and millions of other Americans would ignore it. But i could see obama trying it, then laying on a tremendous media campaign daring opponents (ie people that respect and defend the constitution) to nullify it and “rearm the killers” or some other demonizasion...


5 posted on 01/12/2013 7:49:42 PM PST by ThunderSleeps (Stop obama now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
Another thought to ponder about Hagel and his connection to Obama was presented last week by Reliapundit @ Astute Blogger:
DID HAGEL STEAL THE ELECTION FOR OBAMA, AND IS HIS NOMINATION AS SECDEF PAYOFF?
"WIKI:

Although he [HAGEL] was pressured by some to run for Governor of Virginia, where he had lived for 20 years, in 1992 Hagel moved back to Nebraska to become president of the McCarthy Group, LLC, an investment banking firm.[19] He also served as a Chairman and was CEO of American Information Systems Inc. (AIS), later known as Election Systems & Software, a computerized voting machine manufacturer partly owned by McCarthy Group, LLC and the Omaha World-Herald company.[20][18] On March 15, 1995, Hagel resigned from the board of AIS as he intended to run for office.[21] Michael McCarthy, the parent company’s founder, was Hagel’s campaign treasurer.[22] Until at least 2003, he retained between $1 million and $5 million in stock in Election Systems & Software's parent company, the McCarthy Group.[23]

WERE HAGEL'S MACHINES THE ONES THAT GAVE 0% TO ROMNEY?

INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW WHICH ED'S IN WHICH STATES USED HAGEL'S HIS MACHINES.

INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW WHICH ED'S IN WHICH STATES USED HAGEL'S HIS MACHINES.

IT WOULD BE AN AMAZING "COINCIDENCE" IF HIS MACHINES WERE IN ED'S WHICH OBAMA TOOK BY OVER 90%.

I WONDER HOW MUCH OF THIS COMPANY FELLOW NEBRASKAN BUFFETT OWNS AND IF HE AND HAGEL ARE AS CHUMMY AS HE AND OBAMA ARE....

I'M SURE DAVID GREGORY'S PALS IN THE MSM WILL CHECK THIS OUT.... NOT!

THESE ARE INTERESTING TIMES...

[end quote]
6 posted on 01/12/2013 7:56:34 PM PST by wtd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EagleInGA

“going around Congress smacks of totalitarianism”

A fact which does not concern totalitarians.


7 posted on 01/12/2013 8:02:00 PM PST by ctdonath2 (End of debate. Your move.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: EagleInGA
First of all, I doubt seriously that it would be legal. Secondly, going around Congress smacks of totalitarianism. Thirdly, he’ll likely upset pro-gun Democrats as well.

I sincerely hope you're right, EagleInGA, but all three of those points look like good reasons for an America-hating totalitarian to proceed, not hesitate.

8 posted on 01/12/2013 8:18:19 PM PST by Standing Wolf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: EagleInGA
Yep. He may settle for some token measures on gun registration but won't go all out.

In exchange for going easy on this issue, he'll get the GOP to cave on amnesty.

9 posted on 01/12/2013 8:18:59 PM PST by rfp1234 (Arguing with a liberal is like playing chess with a pigeon.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: EagleInGA

Colonel, an oppressive government in the USA will not stand.


10 posted on 01/12/2013 8:23:05 PM PST by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: EagleInGA

“I just don’t see Obama trying to pass any type of weapon or magazine ban through executive order.”

Really??? In your own words, you illustrate your ignorance of the process...There would be NOTHING TO PASS, it is an executive decision, period...

“First of all, I doubt seriously that it would be legal.”

Hmmmmmmm, nevermind it would be first determined to be un-Constitutional, if we can get the SCOTUS to intervene, which is like watching cars rust in Texarkana...It’ll take a while, and in the meantime, those who choose to sucumb to the infringement(s), will feel pretty stoopid at the end of the day when that is determined...

“Secondly, going around Congress smacks of totalitarianism.”

At the very least...

“Thirdly, he’ll likely upset pro-gun Democrats as well.”

Why should he, or even those pro-gun democrats give a rats ass about being upset, if they can get another dig on the conservative movement???

“The only way for him to effectively implement new gun control laws is through Congress, and I just gave my doubts that it happens this year.”

Well there’s a thought...Sure they’ll try, and hopefully fail in that course, I do not have any confidence in Congress to stop anything of this magnitude because of their well established cowardice...

And why do you believe it won’t be attempted this year??? Why do you think they’ll have to wait for some magical moment to pull their trigger on us??? Pardon the pun...

It’s coming, they’ve been working on this for years...For just the right time and crisis...

And where you believe you are correct on this issue, I actually hope I am wrong in my analysis...Because at the end of the day no one is going to win this thing if they implement their plan for this country...

Good luck...


11 posted on 01/12/2013 8:30:02 PM PST by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: stevie_d_64

Note that we have light bulb bans that apparently can’t be reversed.


12 posted on 01/12/2013 11:22:22 PM PST by Paladin2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Paladin2

There is no constitutional right to incandescent light bulbs per se. Although perhaps there should be. But the right to bear arms is so fundamental it would be implied by natural law even if there were no constitutional provision defending it, even if the second amendment were repealed. I believe the Founders set it forth in words primarily to remind us, their posterity, of all our options in preserving our liberty. The Founders were not positivists. They did not believe they could create rights by legislation, only that they could formally recognize rights we naturally had by virtue of being made in God’s image.

This, BTW, is a means of predicting what the left will do. The philosophy of the left, especially the new aristocracy emanating from Harvard law school and the like, is positivist. They firmly and uniformly believe that it is they who giveth rights, and they who taketh them away, blessed be the name of the almighty state.

Once you understand this, you understand their disdain for the Constitution. To them, those old rights are just the product of a primitive patriarchal social construct that we are struggling to evolve beyond. They are really just the means by which those old dead white men oppressed everyone not lucky enough to be them. We can create new rights, evolve to our full potential, etc etc, if only we can get out from under those old oppressive constructs. We are the people we’ve been waiting for. They actually find that drivel inspiring. At least the useful idiots do.

Of course, not everyone on the left is an idiot, and if you follow those same sticky strands of positivism to their logical conclusion, they will lead you to the center of the web, the bleak, hedonistic cynicism of Nietzsche’s Will to Power, where promises of equality, of new rights that will finally resolve the injustices of the ages, are not believed by those who make them, but are simply tools to get to the top of the power pyramid. Period. They view our commitment, as conservatives, to natural law and divine morality as the chains that make us predictable and therefore easy to manipulate. They see themselves as genuinely free to do whatever it takes to fashion the world according to their own enormous egos. No lie, no murder, no outrage of any kind is too great if it will advance them to greater power. They are incapable of shame. This is the dark heart of tyranny, the spider that consumes all who travel too far toward the center of that orb. We cannot afford to underestimate what they might be willing to do to live out their psychotic collectivist fantasy at our expense.


13 posted on 01/13/2013 1:56:16 AM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Springfield Reformer
But the right to bear arms is so fundamental it would be implied by natural law even if there were no constitutional provision defending it, even if the second amendment were repealed.

Correct. Congressional, or worse, executive action to take our arms would violate our Constitution three ways. It would violate the 2nd and the 9th Amendments. Thirdly, there is nothing "necessary and proper" in seizing our arms to execute an enumerated power.

In a way, I hope Chairman Obama attempts his gun grab. Let's get to our national decision sooner rather than later. Are we to be free or slaves?

14 posted on 01/13/2013 3:31:21 AM PST by Jacquerie ("How few were left who had seen the republic!" - Tacitus, The Annals)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Springfield Reformer; All

“They are incapable of shame. This is the dark heart of tyranny, the spider that consumes all who travel too far toward the center of that orb. We cannot afford to underestimate what they might be willing to do to live out their psychotic collectivist fantasy at our expense.”

Spot on...

They want to fight...Why is it so hard to fathom for some people on our side of the political spectrum???

They want us to start it, when the truth is they created the instability, with a clear intent to instigate the conflict...

We need to accept the fact that we will never be given a fair shake (perception) in this deal, regardless of what happens in the near future...I’m not going to worry about how I look at the end of the day...Having that decided, it makes my outlook on the future a little less stressful, less of a burden...

I do have a minor dissagreement with your statement about the Second Amendment being a “fundamental” right...In my interpretation, and one that is noted in those pesky documents those old foagy white guys in wigs just (that some would think) pulled out of their posteriors, /sarc...

The right to keep and bear arms is a moral, yet “unalienable” right that is decreed upon us by an authority HIGHER than ANY government instituted amoung men/women...So what God has decreed, to me, that is something only he can remove...

The key to all of this is that this nation HAS lost its VIRTUE...Not from a morality sense (bible thumping exercise) but from a simple human trait to understand what is right and what is wrong...The citizenry are ultimately responsible and accountable for the state of affairs this country is in, and the majority are not virtuous people...Granted, none of us are perfect...But we have a serious problem, and the agenda of a few people has grown into a mob of useful idiots...

Those Fabians have been working on this endgame for decades, and we are just about there for their liking...

We may very well have to shrug off this form of government, and re-constitute it...Bu tunless we have people with the virture to do so, we are nbot going to correct the problem anyway...

The “what’s in it for me” crowd needs a stern lesson in humility, a dose of grace, and a slap on the behind to make an impact in that direction...

When and if this goes down against those of us who understand the show, no one will really win this battle...A lesson will have to be learned on both sides of the political/social/moral spectrum...

Those that wrap themselves around the idea of what it means to be a virtuous people will prevail and move on...Those that do not...Well, it won’t look good for them...

Just my opinion...


15 posted on 01/13/2013 5:47:25 AM PST by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Jacquerie; All

As much as a part of me agrees with you, we need to be careful what we wish for...

No one is going to win this one, this time...Everyone will suffer, and be accountable for their actions...

I believe we are already at the edge, and the other side has the ball...We will have to be the ones to decide when and how we react...

I do not believe we can trust ANYONE in elected office on this issue, and the few we could have trusted, are, and will be unable (feckless) to stave off what has been in place, and been planned for, for decades...


16 posted on 01/13/2013 5:54:34 AM PST by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
He won't do executive...they are so close to getting all the golden socialist, big nanny state laws implemented through the back door...why bother.

“It takes a long time to do necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put legislation together to control the people.” Rep. John Dingell (D-MI)

17 posted on 01/13/2013 6:02:25 AM PST by Earthdweller (Harvard won the election again...so what's the problem.......? Embrace a ruler today.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: stevie_d_64
“I just don’t see Obama trying to pass any type of weapon or magazine ban through executive order.” Really??? In your own words, you illustrate your ignorance of the process...There would be NOTHING TO PASS, it is an executive decision, period...

Please, don't confuse choice of words with ignorance. I absolutely understand an Executive Order is the stroke of a pen.

What I find fascinating is the extent of the paranoia. As if the boogie man Obama has mystical powers that no POTUS has had before him, and everyone else in Congress will put aside their self interests to execute his plan.

Listen, my first reaction to the Newtown tragedy was illness. My second was to order my Armalite Super SASS AR-10. It was on my wishlist, but fear of "now or never" drove me to rush a purchase I really could not afford. Add to that 1,000 rounds of .223 ammo and (back ordered) of mags AR-10 & AR-15 rifles and my desperate search for .308 rounds and a decision on the Glock 26 vs. 19 and my "preparation" is complete. Bottom line - I've spent a lot of money I didn't have based entirely on fear of what might happen.

Anything is possible, and yes Obama can choose to issue an illegal (i.e. unconstitutional) ban on magazines and/or weapons. He could go so far as order all weapons be turned in, followed by issue a decree for a door to door search for weapons. While he is at it he could also issue an EO dismissing Congress and formalizing his ascension as the Supreme Ruler of the USA. My point is that it is unlikely he will take that path, since it would likely backfire and potentially cripple the remainder of his 4-year agenda.

Consider:

1) There are several Democrat Senators from Red states running in 2014. Their #1 priority will be keeping their jobs.

2) Congressional Republicans in Conservative districts are unlikely to support any gun control measures. They have to run for re-election in 2014 and their #1 priority will be keeping their jobs.

3) Red state Governors, specifically those in the southern and western states, are likely to refuse to implement any Obama EO that restricts the rights of the citizens who vote for them.

4) The Supreme Court would likely deem the ruling unconstitutional and toss the law out the window.

Now Obama may consider all of these facts and decide to commit the suicidal move of issue the EO anyways. If he takes that step he will create a constitutional crisis. While I put nothing past this man, I just think he is smarter then that. I may be proved wrong.

18 posted on 01/13/2013 6:32:26 AM PST by EagleInGA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: EagleInGA

Fair enough...Welcome to the party...

There is no paranoia, only panic from those who waited till the last minute to react by buying these items in panic mode...Now, I will not assume you did anything of the sort, your purchases were a wise thing to do, dispite the financial impact on you at this time...I wish it was not that way for you...

For many others in this time after this latest mass murder spree, I have very little compassion...

I, along with many other have spent years planning, aquiring and adding to our collections, prudent actions to prepare for something thatg we all hoped wold never come to the potential some of us see, very clearly...And riht around the corner...

I hope we are still wrong about the potential and that this will blow over and off the burner when the first failed legislative/executive action is initiated...

Then we can regroup, and take note of those who were behind that effort and make them pay dearly at the polls...

To me that would be a preferable outcome in the next election cycle...

AR-10, nice!

.308, hard to find...I have plenty, if you need some, send me a note offline...

Regards...


19 posted on 01/13/2013 7:35:22 AM PST by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: csmusaret
I think Hagel was picked to send a message to Israel; “We don’t have your back if you attack Iran.”

As if Israel needed any more notes to make it clear. It would be nice to know what kinds of threats are going on behind the scenes and to be a fly on Bibi's desk when our intransigence is discussed.

20 posted on 01/13/2013 8:20:29 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: stevie_d_64
There is no paranoia, only panic from those who waited till the last minute to react by buying these items in panic mode...Now, I will not assume you did anything of the sort, your purchases were a wise thing to do, despite the financial impact on you at this time...I wish it was not that way for you...

Fortunately (call it luck) we beat the craziness. I attended a gun show this weekend in Dalton, GA and was amazed at prices. Could have sold my rifles for twice what I paid and then some. The place was packed and people are down right mad. I find it concerning.

I, along with many other have spent years planning, acquiring and adding to our collections, prudent actions to prepare for something that we all hoped wold never come to the potential some of us see, very clearly...And right around the corner...

My wife and I sold off the lion share of our stock recently and tripled the size of our farm. We are focused on raising our own food, becoming self sufficient and getting ready for the coming storm.

I hope we are still wrong about the potential and that this will blow over and off the burner when the first failed legislative/executive action is initiated...

Well I can tell you my wife thinks you are right. I got an earful for the hour-plus ride to the Falcons game today. I just have a really hard time believing that Obama is going to go for such a significant power grab now. What worries me is the debt. If/we the dollar collapses things can go bad fast.

Things are wound pretty tight now. People are sick of losing their liberty and freedom. Everyone seems to be on edge. It concerns me.

.308, hard to find...I have plenty, if you need some, send me a note offline...

Thanks!! I appreciate that.

21 posted on 01/13/2013 7:21:21 PM PST by EagleInGA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson