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"Universal Background Checks":Code for Universal Gun Registration
Gun Watch ^ | Dean Weingarten

Posted on 01/13/2013 6:48:26 AM PST by marktwain

The latest liberal code is to push for "universal background checks". I will set aside the fact that the whole idea of preventing criminals from buying guns, rather than preventing them from possessing guns, is a failed paradigm that should be abandoned.

Let us examine what is being proposed as "universal background checks". It sounds as if, when you want to sell a gun, you go to the internet, put in the person who wants to buy the gun's drivers license to see if they are on a prohibited list. If they are not, sell them the gun. Of course, there are all sorts of problems with this approach, foremost being who is allowed to access the list, and what information you are required to put in. How many Robert Smiths are there?

What the left is really proposing is universal gun registration, where anytime you transfer a gun to another person, you have to record the guns serial number, who you transfered it to, and this will have to be done through a licensed government agent.

It will accomplish nothing to reduce crime, as it never has, anywhere it has been tried. Canada just repealed their expensive failed long gun registry. What it does do is lead to confiscation of firearms over time. Not all at once, not right away. Simply keep narrowing the group of people that are allowed to own guns. Narrow down the guns that are allowed. Make the storage requirements more expensive and onerous. That is the real motive here. Make it difficult to own guns. Make it difficult to sell guns. Gradually reduce the number of gun owners until they are politically insignificant. The left hates the American gun culture. They want to be sure that their political opposition is disarmed. That is the reason for ineffective and intrusive "universal background checks".

It sounds so much nicer than Universal Gun Registration.

Gun Registration is Gun Confiscation

Dean Weingarten


TOPICS: Government; History; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: backgroundchecks; banglist; confiscation; guncontrol; registration; secondamendment
Link to Gun Registration is Gun Confiscation article at the site.
1 posted on 01/13/2013 6:48:34 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Before confiscation, registration leads to taxation of guns.

This will be interesting to watch. This issue, especially if they are successful in requiring universal registration of guns as “Universal Background Checks’ will lead to as posited here.

Americans will be surprised to find out the intelligence that the government has on each individual, and with this issue, the willingness to use this intel against each and every American to benefit government.


2 posted on 01/13/2013 6:56:37 AM PST by RFEngineer
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To: marktwain

I have a more effective solution.

Let’s redefine who is a prohibited person. OK, so we keep people ajudicated mentally defective, but I say we limit felons to those who commit violent or serious crimes on the list. I am not concerned about the folks who recieved felonies for victimless crimes such as running afoul of EPA regulations or scamming an insurance company. I’m talking about felons who are a physical threat to society.

Once we’ve done this, require a mandatory 5 year sentence for posession.. in addition and on top of any other crime they may or may not have committed.

The other thing we need to do is have tougher sentencing for violent felons.

This will have a far greater effect than background checks.

I’m sick and tired of listening to gun control. I wan’t criminal control.


3 posted on 01/13/2013 7:11:19 AM PST by umgud
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To: umgud
We also need to make that list public, so people can determine if they are on it or not.

I have met a number of people that were surprised to learn that they were barred from owning guns, usually over some minor incident decades before.

There also needs to be a clear and direct way to get off of the list for each listed prohibition, and an effective mechanism to challenge being put on the list in the first place.

4 posted on 01/13/2013 7:15:15 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain
This sounds like a good way to get background check data for all your lib neighbors. Just pop their names into the system.
5 posted on 01/13/2013 7:33:37 AM PST by Paine in the Neck (Socialism consumes everything)
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To: umgud

“OK, so we keep people ajudicated mentally defective...”

So, who gets to define “mentally defective”? While I agree it may be a desirable outcome, to keep firearms (and knives, swords, axes, hammers, nail guns, etc.) out of the hands of people ill equipped to comprehend their lethality and their appropriate use, I am not willing to allow the government to define the parameters of “mentally defective”.

I am equally opposed to any form of ‘universal background check’ that might be arranged. It is but a short step from that to confiscation.

The truth of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of gun owners in this nation have NO criminal background, NO criminal intent, and NO reason for the government to be meddling in their private lives, in any scope. The ridiculous non-solutions being offered up to assuage the unending guilt of the left wing purists only serve to extend the total-control agenda of the elitist political class (both sides of the aisle), and the socialist plans of their masters.


6 posted on 01/13/2013 7:37:10 AM PST by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2013: Still seeking change.)
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To: marktwain
I think we need a gun-grabber to lawful-gun-owner translation dictionary.

Let's start with the ever-creeping definiton of "assault weapon". I have no intent to assault anyone. How about "balanced capabilty defensive weapon"? Mean-looking black folding stocks, or evil hand grips instantly converts a soft-look Elmer Fudd-style shotgun into an eeevil assault weapon. A semi-automatic pistol is starting to creep into the defintion because the word "automatic" is in there leading some dimwit to think that the pistol will shoot people all on its own.

The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with hunting. Personal protection does not limit you to the 4 corners of your dwelling (hence the mandate for ILL-ANNOY to some up with a CC law in less than 30 days). You have the right of self defense wherever you are - per the courts.

7 posted on 01/13/2013 7:43:44 AM PST by SERKIT ("Blazing Saddles" explains it all.......)
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To: marktwain
How about we talk about background checks on Presidential candidates or voters? Funny how the Dems can advocate this while simultaneously denying voters need to show identification. Last time I checked, Obama can kill a lot more people, a lot quicker, than I can with a 38 but no one vetted him before he was given that authority.
8 posted on 01/13/2013 7:45:20 AM PST by liberalh8ter (If Barack has a memory like a steel trap, why can't he remember what the Constitution says?)
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To: umgud
I’m sick and tired of listening to gun control. I want criminal control.

That's why we need to start with EVERY government employee.

MANDATORY criminal, mental, and financial background checks. Then we move to having each and every one of them submit to a MANDATORY drug and alcohol test. If you fail, you are fired on the spot. No court, no discussion! AND...you are entered into a national database for future reference. Oh, you don't like that? Too fu**kn bad!

These assholes who are OUR employees need to go through the same thing that those in the private sector have to. We should be demanding this!

9 posted on 01/13/2013 7:56:48 AM PST by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: marktwain

OK, all drug dealers line up to be registered, please. /s


10 posted on 01/13/2013 8:00:03 AM PST by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: marktwain

11 posted on 01/13/2013 8:01:01 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: RFEngineer

12 posted on 01/13/2013 8:02:39 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: marktwain

Stick to your guns—no matter what!

By Matt Bracken, January, 2013

If they come to take away your guns by force, they have declared war on the Constitution, and on you. At that point, war is joined, just as it was during another famous gun confiscation raid on April 19, 1775.

If a firearm was legal in 2012, under the 2nd Amendment it’s still legal in 2013 and it will be legal forever, no matter what so-called “executive orders” are handed down or new “laws” are passed by a panicking Congress. Those who say otherwise are liars and traitors and oath breakers and domestic enemies.

Every survivor of every genocide says the same thing: when they come to take your guns, shoot them! Make them take them, and their system of repression will be overwhelmed, because they don’t have millions of jack-booted thugs ready to do armed battles all over the country.

If you give up your arms, you are placing your entire trust in the permanent future benevolence of the U.S. government. This trust is invariably fatal: ask the American Indians about those treaties that were guaranteed forever.

History is clear, with numerous examples, of the danger of gun registration and gun control. The German gun registration laws were enacted duuring the 1920s Weimar Republic, years before Hitler came to power. German gun registration was mandated in the name of “public safety.” Note that phrase well. I’m sure today’s liberal utopians would agree that they were “common sense” and “reasonable” gun control laws. Don’t we all want “public safety?”

Then years later Hitler rose to power, and used the gun registration lists to first disarm the Jews, and then to force them into starving, overcrowded ghettos, and finally into mass graves and gas chambers. The Nazi genocide of the Jews was enabled by those “common sense” German gun registration lists.

Millions of Polish Jews were rounded up by German military police battallions. The German military police only needed a 1-10 ratio to their victims. A mere 100 German military police, (4-Fs in their forties, bottom of the barrel conscripts, not rabid SS), would round up and murder a town of a thousand Jews over the course of one day.

The Germans would force them to sit tightly packed together on town plazas or sporting fields under the watch of only a handful of armed guards. The Germans would then march groups of twenty or thirty at a time at gunpoint into the woods for point-blank executions. A 1-10 ratio means the military police were not worried at all about meeting resistance. The victims were all previously disarmed.

During the Armenian Genocide from 1915-23, two million Christian Turks were exterminated by being marched at gun point into burning deserts with no food or water. The Turkish gun registration laws were enacted in 1911, in the name of “public safety.” The genocide began a few years later, after the Armenians’ firearms were confiscated.

Entire divisions of Russian troops hiked home from WW1 in 1917/18, carrying their rifles and swords and other sidearms. Very early on, Lenin decreed that “public safety” required they all be turned in, under penalty of death. And so the Russian war veterans were disarmed—but not the Communist Party members. Then came the Soviet purges, the Great Terror, the Gulags, and tens of millions of disarmed Russians were murdered.

I’m sorry, but I do NOT trust that our federal government won’t turn as brutally tyrannical as the old USSR at some point in the future, perhaps after an economic crash or other major crisis. The Obama regime already perceives that we “Bitter Clingers” are “reactionaries” who are not only standing in the way of social progress, we are actively blocking it.

That makes us pure Evil, since their plan for a socialist utopia is pure Good. And that means they will ultimately come to feel totally justified in seeking a “final solution to the Bitter Clinger problem,” in the same way that the Turks, Soviets and Nazis did. Can anyone guarantee Americans that tyranny will never visit our shores?

If the socialists in power are scapegoating us as national villains now, what will they do when they have no reason to fear us whatsoever? Did the Turks, Soviets or Nazis treat their despised minorities better, or worse, after disarming them? Think!

And once a despot’s enemies (that’s us) are disarmed and helpless...the temptation grows to simply do away with them. Obama mentor and ghost-autobiographer, the Weather Underground bomber Bill Ayers, stated that they would need to murder ten percent of the American population to achieve their socialist nirvana. Thirty million bitter clingers. Guess who that is?

Don’t relearn this bitter lesson the hard way. Learn from history’s many examples. As it was for the Turkish Armenians, German Jews, Russian Kulaks, Chinese, Ugandans, Guatemalens, Cambodians, Cubans, Rwandans, and on and on, history’s lesson is crystal clear:

Stick to your guns—no matter what!

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you could be sure ahead of time that you’d be cracking the skull of a cutthroat. Or what about the Black Maria sitting out there on the street with one lonely chauffeur — what if it had been driven off or its tires spiked. The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!”

~~Alexander SolzhenitsynSee More


13 posted on 01/13/2013 8:05:19 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee

Bumping your truly excellent post!

Especially, Solzhenitsyn’s piece within it:

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you could be sure ahead of time that you’d be cracking the skull of a cutthroat. Or what about the Black Maria sitting out there on the street with one lonely chauffeur — what if it had been driven off or its tires spiked. The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!”


14 posted on 01/13/2013 8:19:53 AM PST by headsonpikes (Mass murder and cannibalism are the twin sacraments of socialism - "Who-whom?"-Lenin)
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To: umgud

You are conflating issues. The majority of violent crimes are “acts of passion.” The people who commit these crimes have a low reoffend rates. The majority (upwards of 70%) of the remaining violent crimes are committed by a small percentage of the criminal population (less than 10%). These people murder individuals or bystanders in multiple incidents over (comparably) long periods of time. These should be the poster children for capital punishment, but their crimes are not sensational enough to garner national attention.

Mass murderers are outside of this universe. They are anomalous incidents committed by crazy people. They grab headlines everywhere. “Women and children slaughtered by assault weapon-crazed (hopefully) right winger.” We are conditioned to visual stimulus, and they see war when they see an AR or AK, not some wimpy pistol. Despite the fact that 70% of mass murders are committed with pistols of ubiquitous manufacture, the glamorous assault weapons grab the headlines. The incidence of mental illness or psychotropic drugs is mentioned only peripherally, though the correlation is stronger than the “assault weapons” link.

Then again, this industry has devolved into entertainment with an agenda, not dispassionate reporting. Want to decrease mass murders? Lock criminally insane people up before they commit mass murder. It is almost impossible to get someone adjudicated and long-term facilities are non-existent. Jails are filled with non-violent crazies and violent crazies roam the streets...


15 posted on 01/13/2013 8:24:46 AM PST by antidisestablishment (Our people perish through lack of wisdom, but they are content in their ignorance.)
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To: marktwain

Under a ‘gun ban’, they say that you cannot hand down any firearms to your intended recipient.

Simple!

Notify ‘intended recipient’ you are putting out the trash while you are ill, and would the intended recipient take it to wherever. Transfer complete. “I didn’t want to sell it, couldn’t give it away, so I threw it out in the garbage.”


16 posted on 01/13/2013 8:26:09 AM PST by Terry L Smith
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To: PubliusMM
So, who gets to define “mentally defective”?

One of the key questions that most 2A proponents forget to ask.

Indeed, we should always ask the general question" Who gets to to decide the criteria?" and all the specific questions of definitions or criteria.

A consistent primary tactic of a statist tyranny is to make ALL citizens, except the ruling elite (aristocracy), criminals, by making the "law" so complex and extensive that normal activity is not possible without breaking some obscure trick of law or even secret law.

We are now well past that point, and, of course, possession of a firearm while committing a crime will finish a citizen for life.

The ONLY weapons control that is necessary in America is strict controls on the possession of weapons by public employees.

17 posted on 01/13/2013 8:36:07 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: marktwain
Amen. If you require universal background checks for all firearm transactions including face-to-face within your own state, then you also need to "prove" that the background check was done. That means that a record of the sale needs to be kept somewhere.

Once a record is kept, then it is easy if a Feinstein ban on a class of weapons is made, the Government can send you a letter saying "bring in your Daniel Defense AR-15 serial number xxxxx to your local Police Department by xx/xx/xx for disposal. Refusal to comply will result in criminal and civil prosecution."

Me paranoid? You betcha.

18 posted on 01/13/2013 8:42:22 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: unixfox

“That’s why we need to start with EVERY government employee. MANDATORY criminal, mental, and financial background checks. Then we move to having each and every one of them submit to a MANDATORY drug and alcohol test. If you fail, you are fired on the spot. No court, no discussion!”

Great idea, but we both know that will not happen. Government employees are right where the communist left wants them. WE are the ones they need to take control of.


19 posted on 01/13/2013 9:05:06 AM PST by selfdefense
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To: marktwain

How about a red flag against traitors to the government who are following orders from an illegally elected POTUS?
According to the REAL database these individuals are guilty of mass 2A infringements.


20 posted on 01/13/2013 9:07:35 AM PST by Eye of Unk (AR2 2013 is the American Revolution part 2 of 2013)
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To: umgud

I have always thought that if a background check was really needed, it should be checking the buyer’s name against a list of people not eligible to own a firearm. It’s the other way around now. Every background check is a data mining operation to create lists of people buying guns and what they buy. Of course we knew this in the beginning no matter what they said. It’s all to support incremental steps toward the complete elimination of guns in private hands.


21 posted on 01/13/2013 9:10:01 AM PST by Dutch Boy
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To: marktwain

Gun registration, the lib’s desire since 1962 when Thomas J Dodd and Emanuel Cellar called for the registration of all handguns only. Long guns will not be affected they said.

That didn’t last long.

By 1964 they wanted the registration of all guns.

By 1980 Handgun control Inc still was demanding the control of all handguns. Long guns will not be affected.

That didn’t last long.

Here is what the founder of HCI said.

Nelson T. ‘Pete’ Shields
Founder of Handgun Control, Inc.

“I’m convinced that we have to have federal legislation to build on. We’re going to have to take one step at a time, and the first step is necessarily — given the political realities — going to be very modest. Of course, it’s true that politicians will then go home and say, ‘This is a great law. The problem is solved.’ And it’s also true that such statements will tend to defuse the gun-control issue for a time.

So then we’ll have to strengthen that law, and then again to strengthen that law, and maybe again and again. Right now, though, we’d be satisfied not with half a loaf but with a slice. Our ultimate goal — total control of handguns in the United States — is going to take time. My estimate is from seven to ten years.

The problem is to slow down the increasing number of handguns sold in this country. The second problem is to get them all registered. And the final problem is to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition — except for the military, policemen, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors — totally illegal.”

-Pete Shields, Chairman and founder, Handgun Control Inc., “A Reporter At Large: Handguns,” The New Yorker, July 26, 1976, 57-58


22 posted on 01/13/2013 9:30:39 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Click my name! See new paintings!)
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To: umgud

I don’t think that anything needs to be done. In my view all existing federal gun laws should be repealed.


23 posted on 01/13/2013 11:05:40 AM PST by jospehm20
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To: umgud

But the government WANTS violent criminals because that is the only way that people will willingly give up their RKBA.


24 posted on 01/13/2013 12:11:04 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (The only thing that Hollywood gets right about guns is that criminals will always get them.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Photobucket
25 posted on 01/13/2013 12:13:35 PM PST by Kozak (The Republic is dead. I do not owe what we have any loyalty, wealth or sympathy.)
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To: Yo-Yo
Amen. If you require universal background checks for all firearm transactions including face-to-face within your own state, then you also need to "prove" that the background check was done. That means that a record of the sale needs to be kept somewhere.

In the late 1980's, my college bookstore didn't validate credit cards electronically, but instead checked their numbers against a list of invalid ones. Computer technology is such that if there were a satisfactory solution to the privacy issues surrounding letting anyone know whether anyone else has ever been on the "forbidden list", the issue of proving a check was done wouldn't necessarily be a particular problem. If the seller keeps a copy of the credentials used to purchase the weapon, and there is an indelible public record of who was forbidden on what days, then the fact that the credentials aren't on the forbidden list for the date of purchase would mean the seller was in the clear.

Of course, that wouldn't solve the more fundamental problem which is that there's no reason to believe that the government wouldn't endeavor to add to the forbidden list people who have neither been adjudicated mentally incompetent nor been accused (must less convicted) of having committed any crime. Indeed, only a fool would believe such a thing given the government's effort to do precisely that.

26 posted on 01/13/2013 8:51:28 PM PST by supercat (Renounce Covetousness.)
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To: SERKIT
""balanced capabilty defensive weapon"?"

Multi Perp Preventer.

27 posted on 01/13/2013 9:00:32 PM PST by Paladin2
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