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Gilgamesh: The Warrior King
http://shadowsofhistory.wordpress.com/2013/01/12/gilgamesh-the-warrior-king/ ^

Posted on 01/14/2013 7:42:49 PM PST by truthfinder9

Brian Godawa has been writing a fascinating fantasy series that takes place in the ancient Near East. It began with Noah Primeval which was rooted in the question, “What was going on in the world that was so horrible that mankind needed destroyed?” The series continued with Enoch Primordial (actually a prequel), which centered around the enigmatic Enoch. A man barely mentioned in the biblical accounts, but because he never died, and the other books attributed to him recount many a strange event, he has long been a person of high speculation.

Godawa now steps out from filling in between the lines of the biblical accounts with Gilgamesh Immortal.

(Excerpt) Read more at shadowsofhistory.wordpress.com ...


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Religion
KEYWORDS: bible; blacksea; blackseaflood; epicofgilgamesh; fiction; gilgamesh; gligamesh; godsgravesglyphs; grandcanyon; greatflood; neareast; noah; noahsflood; tombofgilgamesh

1 posted on 01/14/2013 7:42:58 PM PST by truthfinder9
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To: truthfinder9

Enoch was a Godly man. His earthly existence ended but God granted that he not die, but rather be “translated” into His presence.


2 posted on 01/14/2013 7:50:17 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: truthfinder9

Back then, the people were all schizophrenic and heard voices in their head. But eventually we got control and achieved consciousness. At least that's what this guy said back in the 1970s. He spent a fair amount of time examining Gilgamesh and the Homeric epics.

3 posted on 01/14/2013 7:57:23 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Nothing will change until after the war.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Did he think that Homer must have been a nut case because he wrote such silly epics? Not to mention Virgil or Dante.


4 posted on 01/14/2013 8:03:20 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: truthfinder9

What did mankind do! Spelling, punctuation and run on sentences. Kill them all, heretics!


5 posted on 01/14/2013 8:03:20 PM PST by STD ( People say 'It's as plain as the nose on your face' but none of us can see theirs!)
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To: truthfinder9

What did mankind do! Spelling, punctuation and run on sentences. Kill them all, heretics!


6 posted on 01/14/2013 8:03:24 PM PST by STD ( People say 'It's as plain as the nose on your face' but none of us can see theirs!)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Carl Sagan said the same thing in “Broca’s Brain”. Did Carl rip him off?


7 posted on 01/14/2013 8:07:05 PM PST by DManA
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To: Cicero
It continues to be a very controversial theory, but the thrust of it was that the two hemispheres of our brain were not well synchronized -- we had a bicameral brain. There was no real awareness, introspection, or consciousness. People did things much like animals do things -- and if a difficult or unexpected event suddenly occurred, part of our brain would "talk" to the other part of the brain and "give advice".

In Homer, this would be Athena telling Odysseus what he should do, or Aphrodite telling Paris to run away. It's the voice of a god that suddenly intervenes in human affairs.

Jaynes further says that at the time of the Bronze Age collapse (roughly 3000 years ago), the brain began to be more well-ordered and "the voices" stopped (for most of us). At that point, humans became aware that they were aware, they understood that they could think about thinking, and you could talk to yourself in a deliberative and constructive manner. The birth of consciousness.

Very controversial book, but loaded with interesting ideas.

8 posted on 01/14/2013 8:10:25 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Nothing will change until after the war.)
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To: truthfinder9
Gilgamesh: The Warrior King

Not to be confused with Gil Galad, the Elven King.

9 posted on 01/14/2013 8:11:04 PM PST by Pilsner
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To: truthfinder9

Heh... This was a Jeopardy question (er, answer) on tonight’s show.
Is that why you posted this?
(Tonight’s reference to this king on Jeopardy was the first time I ever heard of him.)


10 posted on 01/14/2013 8:11:12 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: ClearCase_guy

It’s also fairly common idea among literary historians that individual self-consciousness or subjectivity is a fairly late development. I don’t agree, but since I’m heading off for bed, I can’t explain why at the moment. :-)


11 posted on 01/14/2013 8:18:54 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: truthfinder9

where is Nimrod in this accounting?


12 posted on 01/14/2013 8:27:18 PM PST by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: ClearCase_guy

jeeez!...I actually have a copy of that book in my storage room.


13 posted on 01/15/2013 3:28:25 AM PST by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum -- "The Taliban is inside the building")
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To: ClearCase_guy; Cicero
Jaynes bought into the evolutionay paradigm. His studies indicated that people living between he times of Exodus and of Alexander were using a part of the brain which is no longer used in such a way as to produce what he called "auditory hallucinations" and that entire societies were being controlled by such hallucinations at the time of the Trojan war. At every point at which you or I would have to make a decision, those people were being told what to do by inner voices which they called gods and goddesses. Another way to interpret the same findings is to entertain the notion that human language prior to the flood and the tower of Babel had been telepathic and that what was going on at the time of the Trojan war was a broken remnant of that former capability.

All of that had nothing to do with the flood itself of course, the flood was a real event, but a natural event. It takes a sorry opinion of God to imagine that he would wipe the entire solar system for sin only to have sin back in business a few decades later as if nothing had happened.

14 posted on 01/15/2013 3:40:19 AM PST by varmintman
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To: ClearCase_guy
Actually, Jaynes didn't say people were schizophrenic but that they really did here voices of the gods (just as the Hebrew prophets heard the voice of God and as schizophrenics of today may hear voices).

Jaynes theory was that humans were not independent but were acting as agents of higher authorities. Perhaps those authorities were themselves agents of God or agents of the forces who had rebelled against God.

Having read Jaynes many times, I have the clear impression that idols did indeed speak to the non-dominant part of the bicameral brain...and may still do so in ways too subtle to hear.

15 posted on 01/15/2013 5:14:51 AM PST by RoosterRedux (The 2nd Amendment is our defense against tyranny.)
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To: varmintman
It takes a sorry opinion of God to imagine that he would wipe the entire solar system for sin only to have sin back in business a few decades later as if nothing had happened.

There are many who believe God used the Flood to remove the nephilim from the earth (as the Book of Enoch and others so plainly explain).

I have never noticed that Jaynes bought into the theory of evolution. The origin of consciousness is only about the transformation you mention of moving from dependence on auditory perceptions to acting independently from such perceptions because they grew increasingly faint.

16 posted on 01/15/2013 5:26:29 AM PST by RoosterRedux (The 2nd Amendment is our defense against tyranny.)
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To: STD

My theory is that mankind was destroyed because they were vegetarians. Must’ve been similar to libs today, where most vegetarians exist now.

My basis for this is Genesis 1:29 and 9:3.

In 1:29, Adam and Eve are told:

“And God said: Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your food; 30 and to all beasts of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to all that move upon the earth, and wherein there is life, that they may have to feed upon.”

Hence, people and animals are vegetarian.

However, after Noah gets off the Ark in 9:3, they are told:

“And everything that moves and lives shall be food for you: even as the green herbs have I delivered them all to you.”

Note the change in menu...


17 posted on 01/15/2013 5:27:36 AM PST by fruser1
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To: DManA

Sagan never had any original ideas; even his global warming / greenhouse gases fiction was merely amplified from earlier sources.


18 posted on 01/16/2013 6:40:41 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: ClearCase_guy; Cicero; Tainan; varmintman; RoosterRedux

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks ClearCase_guy et al, there hasn't been a Jaynes discussion on FR in at least a few years (or, everyone kept it quiet so I wouldn't storm on in). Makes this topic pingworthy, it looked ludicrous otherwise.

Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


19 posted on 01/16/2013 6:43:19 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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IRAQ: Gilgamesh tomb believed found
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/902357/posts

Gilgamesh tomb believed found!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/902823/posts

Gilgamesh Tomb Believed Found
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1332158/posts


20 posted on 01/16/2013 6:45:12 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: SunkenCiv; ClearCase_guy

I don’t remember whether I actually read Jaynes’ book back in the day, or just read some discussions about it. It didn’t strike me as worth much thought.

Of course, you could certainly say that we have bicameral minds—left side of the brain, and right side, one primarily intellectual and the other primarily emotional, and so forth. (Although there, again, I believe that one should distinguish the brain from the mind. The mind uses the brain, but is not the same thing.)

Still, I have always found it difficult to believe that “evolution” could have changed humanity in such a short time, merely a few thousand years. That always struck me as a delusion of the 19th-century mind, which developed the idea of “progress.” It seems to me that the Greeks and Romans—or the Chinese—were much the same as we are, and just as smart.

Why so much science and technology in the modern world, then? That’s another story, in which—contrary to the usual modernist view—Christianity and its view of the world played a major part. But it’s preposterous to think that people a few thousand years ago were differently screwed together in their heads.


21 posted on 01/16/2013 7:28:30 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero; ClearCase_guy

Jaynes attributes the cognitive change and “the breakdown of the bicameral mind” to a variety of social changes, but largely due to the invention of writing wherein current events and such can be documented and no longer reliant on changeable folklore and unreliable human memory, and our literacy lives in just the one lobe.

This is similar to the aftermath of the Black Plague — prior to, the local council of elders (semi-literate at best) decided disputes based on their recollection of past practice and otherwise undocumented events and agreements. In the Plague the elders had mostly died, and written recordkeeping became all-important for settling property disputes, not least regarding the estates of those who had died by the bushel during the Plague itself.

As we enter a new era of quasi-literacy — more people can read than ever before, but don’t read anything but ads, chosen headlines, and text messages — we may see another re-emergence of the bicameral mind.


22 posted on 01/17/2013 7:31:33 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if people didn’t stick bluetooth devices in their ear just to have a voice constantly keeping them on track “You’re going to the store ... you need aspirin and deodorant ... aspirin ... and deodorant ... aspirin AND deodorant ... stop looking at the magazine — you forgot the deodorant ...”


23 posted on 01/17/2013 7:40:41 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Nothing will change until after the war.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

:’D


24 posted on 01/17/2013 7:57:07 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: ClearCase_guy; SunkenCiv

Hey, that’s right! I used to bring a written list to remind me what to buy at the grocery store, when I drove into town. Now I just walk into the store and buy what I think I need—and almost always find that I forgot something when I get back home.

If I abandon grocery lists for long enough, will I start hearing mysterious voices speaking in my ear?


25 posted on 01/17/2013 8:18:49 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Lancey Howard

The Epic of Gilgamesh is an epic poem about a king of Uruk and is one of the earliest surviving works of literature. What is posted, however, appears to be fantasy literature at least referring to Gilgamesh if not incorporating parts of the story.


26 posted on 01/28/2013 3:07:13 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: SunkenCiv

I enjoy good historical fiction, but this looks like something to pass on.


27 posted on 01/28/2013 3:09:37 PM PST by colorado tanker
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