Skip to comments.When Neutered Men Speak to Boys [where have the real men gone?]
Posted on 01/17/2013 9:18:29 AM PST by virgil283
"And so I began to search my memory, and I could not recall a single adult male in my boyhood speaking to me or my friends in such tones. I cannot recall any men routinely squatting down or leaning over to make themselves appear closer to my own height. I cannot remember any men putting a breathless wheezing whisper into their words. I cannot bring to mind a single incident in which a grown man opened his eyes and mouth as wide as possible and talked to me like some grinning, masculine Norma Desmond. What I do remember are the grown men who picked me up and lifted me to their naturally imposing height, instead of lowering themselves to mine. And such lifting was always accompanied by a feeling of safety and strength. Im pretty sure (and confirmed by my wifes memories) that I never talked to our boys or to my nephews in such a manner. And I know very well that I have never vocally nor vertically neutered myself when interacting with my grandchildren.
The men of today, both young and old, have been poisoned, it seems. Poisoned by the feminist doctrine that has been mixed into every social expression, event, and philosophy. Poisoned by the erasing of distinctions between the sexes. Poisoned by the need to be nonthreatening and never, ever overtly masculine. Poisoned by the need to be liked by their own children and grandchildren liked like schoolyard chums, I mean.
"The males of today have a horror of many things; the horror of not being a man does not seem to be listed in the catalog of fears"
The chickification of America is complete.
Women by choice, men by meek acquiescence.
Not today. Not in this environment where you could be accused of a sex crime for simply touching a kid, or adult for that matter.
Sorry, this article is mostly a load of crap. What father does not talk in an excited tone to his children such as "Would you like a cookie?" or "Do you see that bunny?". Yes, there has been a lot of feminization of men, but just because I stoop down and raise the pitch of my voice a little to get their attention does not mean I'm a second mom.
Too bad the author was apparently raised by East German police.
Schools have gone a long way in neutering males. The intent is to make them cowardly and compliant. That’s about all that schools enforce and “teach” these days—compliance to the “authorities”.
There are some where these “lessons” didn’t take, however.
Real men are in a bible believing churches. Want to find out? Go there!
Many years later I was seriously dating a girl. She told me that when she first watched me go by she "liked how I walk".
When my grandson was still in high school he had ROTC after classes. I would go to pick him up, park, and watch them drill.
He walks like a man.
Why should you talk to them like that, they aren’t idiots?
I think the point is that today’s father NEVER stands up.
If you can’t admit that we have a father problem in our culture . . .
Nope—Both my mother and wife consider me a barbarian.
(My wife likes barbarians when it comes to gishing bugs.)
This wasn’t the absolutely most misguided article that I’ve ever read, but it came close. Especially the comments on the voices when talking to children and kneeling to speak to children.
One of my fondest memories is being 10 years old and winning a local science fair. Afterwards many of my father’s friends came by to congratulate me. They were predominately Air Force officers at the Academy with a few civil service (like my father), and to a man, they knelt to speak to me.
Uh, this trend toward pansification has not impacted my house, and I have three sons.
I agree the article is a little over the top in reading into the vocal tones and body language but there is a valid, broader point about adults putting kids on pedestals. Even in my own family, my step-mother cooks special food for the grandkids if she knows they don’t like what she is cooking for the adults. I know a number of families where the kids don’t have regular chores, or where the kids get to pick the place where the family goes out to eat. Christmas gift giving to kids has gone out of control in a number of houses — I see sob stories in the paper where parents are crying that they can’t get their kids what the kids want, as if you are a bad parent because you can’t get the kid everything on his or her Christmas list.
And part of the reason for this is that a number of parents never really grew up. They are immature themselves. I don’t think, as the author does, that it results so much from Feminism as it does from the destruction of personal responsibility in our culture. No one is required to be self-sufficient or required to account for their actions.
Good——all we have to do is get conservatives to educate and control the info that their children get. Quit supporting the Left!
This culture is toxic-—it is true-—but there are ways to instill Virtue and Truth in the young. Plenty of resources and Classical books. But, I admit, it is hard when all institutions are trying to crush you and convert your children to Satanism/occultism. The media, their visuals and music, is extremely powerful and seductive.
Mrs WBill has a number of gay friends. I forget how we got on the topic, but she mentioned that they all were "As much of a man" as me.
Insulted, I replied that gender isn't what makes you a man. And, that if she didn't understand that, then she never would.
That particular conversation has never arisen again. :-)
I agree with you 100%. My father was truly old school. WWII vet who pulled himself up by his boot straps and made something of himself. The displays of so-called manliness that would impress this author, my father would have dismissed as being simply being low class. There was even a phrase for it amongst his peers. Sergeants disease: Men who tried to discipline their families and run their homes as they would have their troops and barracks.
Weird article. I agree with it in principle ... but those were some weird examples to make the point.
I’ve never been accused of being feminine, excessively gentile, or pandering to my kids. But, I’ve knealt to speak to my son ... particularly when I’m scolding him. Its about being eye-to-eye with the boy, not symbolically getting on his level. I don’t pick him up to talk to him ... he can stand on his own.
As for whispering, I’ve found a lower voice typically gets more attention than shouting. You want to put the fear of God in a kid ... learn to growl while whispering. Hell, sometimes I don’t even need to say anything. A look will suffice.
I would agree in principle that people don’t toughen their kids up enough. I don’t think the kneeling and whispered-tones are a very good example, though.
No, they're children. When they're well-behaved at a restaurant, why should I be cold and aloof? My beef with the article is that, yes, there is a lack of masculinity in today's culture. Too bad such poor examples of that crisis were written about (e.g. stooping to address your kids as opposed to picking them up so that they're at your level - who does that?!)
Your two short paragraphs are immensely better written than the entire article. You hit the nail on the head.
In the defense of men; I don't know if it is as much a case of "meek acquiesence" as one of fear of a lawsuit, or a "sexual harrassment" complaint from some woman in the workplace.
I know that my husband is required to go to a "sensitivity" film every single year. They all sit there with blank looks on their faces. Everyone knows it is BS; but, the government requires this sort of thing, and saying anything about it just gets you a lot of problems. So, I think most men just shut up and suffer through it because the other choice is "sensitivity training" etc., or worse.
I believe that it has also hurt the relationship between men and women at the workplace. This stuff was supposed to prevent women being forced to give sexual favors if they wanted to advance their careers. Now, if someone tells a woman they look nice, they may end up in "sensitivity training" hell.
You don’t have to be cold and aloof but you don’t need to sound like Bert and Ernie either.
Actual manhood is so rare, that exhibiting it is extremely attractive to women.
They don’t know quite why, but the innate nature of mankind teaches women to look for real men, and men to look for real women.
Wussification is death.
I understand your point regarding lawsuits and job security. But otherwise progressive intimidation is a paper tiger. We all need to refuse to be intimidated and begin speaking out in spite of the social consequences. Their death grip on society will loosen almost immediately, IMO.
I agree, but I would reword your statement to say:
“...gender positively makes you a MALE, but it cannot make you a MAN.”
Yep. I generally think of comments like yours about 3 weeks after the conversation. :-)
Well, I will only speak from what I see in my family ....
My two sons are participating fathers. Both are married to strong women. Between them I have 5 grandchildren - the driving, coaaching, watching, picking up, taking home, cooking, cleaning, entertaining, yard work, sleep-overs, is shared between them. Even taking time to going out as a couple, (just the 2 of them).
I see the love, respect, and pride they have for each other and their children.
From my limited perspective. My oldest step-daughter married a man and divorced him in less than a year to marry a metrosexual. My niece married a man and divorced him in six months and married a metrosexual. Young women demand to be worshipped. If they aren’t, they’ll trade for someone who will worship them. Too many Daddy’s Little Princesses out there now.
Women want control, and sissified men satisfy that need.
A woman who is insecure about giving herself to a man often finds submission and malleability increases their sense of security. Why worry about a man not suiting you if he makes himself clay to fit your mould. And having got what they wanted, women rail against men as a whole when they no longer want what they got. Where are the men who are strong, where are men with a spine? Well, you rejected all those men because the one who changed to fit your will was preferable, remember?
Men who are masculine are not preferred by women overall. By their choice to remain masculine they are often beyond caring about what women in general want or need them to be...they are who they are because of their own standards, pride, self image, whatever. Putting themselves and their lives apart from manipulation necessarily gives them a mindset that while ideally the company of women is preferable, living life that makes them unnecessary is practical.
And so it begins. And then, years later you end up with women who have total control over their own lives, with sissified males for companionship or no man at all. And on the other side, masculine men, among whom some find an emotionally secure companion who lets a man be a man, but then a large number that spend a great deal of time going from one controlling female to another looking for “Miss Right” but resting nowhere...or, flying solo more often than not.
One recurring theme that really gets tiresome is that articles of this kind come out with a feminine finger pointed at the terrible deficient men who simply aren’t satisfying their image of what men in relationships should be. Well, despite what the NOW may tell you, women are the ones who choose what men they associate with and it is men who have been told it is their place to change their psyche and behavior to fit the needs of women. Those who do not, are too much of a challenge to for women to get to know even on a casual basis. The metrosexual or gay man may have coffee with or talk about their day with a score of female friends. Real men would love to have a woman take them to coffee, but for the woman it’s too frightening. Too challenging. No control. They might think it “means something”. So if they share their hearts with men, excuse me, but the more faggotty the better. That’s much more secure, now isn’t it?
The frosting on the cake is, men learn to live witbout a manipulative female influence, and that lack doesn’t make them feel like half a man. A woman who never finds a strong man is only half of herself. Call me chauvinistic, if that’s French for being right.
"...He rarely swore at us (his favorite insult whenever he was really angry with us, was to call us Dumb Bunnies. To this day we have to giggle a little amongst ourselves at this Dumb Bunnies why on earth would he call us Dumb Bunnies, and what the heck is a Dumb Bunny anyway? His voice always had a timbre to it that demanded our attention. He required that we look him in the face and say Yes Sir or No Sir. He expected us to respond to our Mother with Yes Maam and No Maam. Then he might flail at us with his belt while we squealed, but would never really connect with it. It was all show. We didnt know that though. We really thought he was trying to hit us. The truth be told, we feared my mother much more as a disciplinarian. She had the Mediterranean emotion, and you could never be sure just how far you had pushed her. And we did push her on occasion. Looking back, it was all pretty predictable fare. In this light, I had a memorable encounter with my dad. It speaks volumes to me about my father, but at the time, was most puzzling because of its nature.
When we lived in Virginia, I was about 7 years old, and had walked a couple of miles to a candy store that was in a part of our town that was much poorer, and predominately black. When I came home, my dad asked me where I had been, and I said, Oh, I just went over to Niggertown to get some candy
In a very swift motion, my dad grabbed me, one big adult hand around each skinny seven-year-old bicep, and drew me towards him so that my nose was probably less than a foot away from his nose. The term today for this was In my face. This was very close, and VERY unusual. He never dealt with us like this. I will never forget the look on his face, it wasnt anger, and I didnt know what it was. And the tone of his voice when he spoke was a tone I had never heard before. There was something else, not anger, but something. I didnt know what it was at the time. My father looked at me, directly in the eyes, with his eyes the unwavering steely blue that they were, with this very foreign, strange and unusual look in them, a sharpness or brightness that was totally unrecognizable to me at that age. He gave me one shake, not a hard one, a gentle one, and said to me in that odd voice:
Dont ever think that you are better than someone else just because you were born with a different color skin. He released me, stood up to regard me for an instant then walked away without another word. I remember just standing there totally confused about this strange encounter. I had never seen him look at me that way or speak to me that way. I remember it as clearly as if it happened this morning.
Now that I am older, I think of that encounter and I know with certainty what the look he had in his eyes was. I know what the odd tone of his voice was.
It was passion. My dad had passion, and never, ever showed it to us as kids. But just that once, when I was a child, a door had cracked open (I am sure quite by accident) and I had seen the light that escaped. Before I could go and look inside, the door had snapped shut and sealed tight. I never got a chance to see into the room sealed by that door until many years later. By then, I was no longer surprised by what I saw. I had made the transition from viewing my father as a parent to viewing him as a person.
It is no surprise to anyone that I hero-worshipped my dad. I wanted to be him, my whole life. I never aspired after baseball players or presidents. I wanted to be my dad. I wanted to look like him. I would go over to the building across the street where my dad worked, and watch him walk down the halls, his feet sounding like the voice of authority itself. Then, I would try to imitate him so my footsteps would sound the same. I wanted to wear a uniform and serve my country like him. I wanted his values. I wanted to be a patriot like him. To this day, I wish I could emulate his life, and no other..."
When he bent to put his face level with mine, there was nothing feminine or unmanly about his manner in addressing this issue with me. But as you can see, it made a profound impression with me.
This article is sort of b.s., but I’ll tell you one thing that I find amazing about the “chickification” of America — boys are being potty-trained to pee sitting down now. Maybe I’m missing something, but that seems awfully wrong to me.
Yeah, you’re missing something alright, and I’m guessing it’s children of your own. Boys have always been potty-trained to urinate sitting down to the best of my knowledge. Urinating standing up is something that boys learn later for a vast variety of reasons, not the least of which is that 2 year olds don’t have the wherewithal to know when a turd is going to drop if they relax to urinate. Trying to teach a toddler to urinate standing up would be frustrating case of putting the cart before the horse for both the parents and the child.
The definition of gender is "the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex". Gender is exactly what makes you a man. You confused the term gender with that of sex although "genitalia" would have also worked in your statement. While this is a common mistake it's more painful when you use it in an argument mistakenly.
Well, OK, my first is only one, so I haven’t been through it yet. I guess I’ll have to keep looking into it, in order to decide whether to put up a fight about it or not with my wife . . .
But gosh darnit, he’ll be peeing standing up before he can remember not having done so . . .
It is very nice that your family is perfect; but, it sure is a discussion stopper and really off topic.
Actual manhood is so rare, that exhibiting it is extremely attractive to women.
They dont know quite why, but the innate nature of mankind teaches women to look for real men, and men to look for real women.
When my daughter was asked to Prom by a boy in her honors Biology class she refused to go. When I asked her why, she said, “He’s more girly than I am and he doesn’t even know it.’ Unfortunately, she’s still looking for her real man.
"Excuse me, honey..."
(click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click CLICK)
"Just hold it a second, sweetheart..."
(click click click click CLICK)
"Well, Honey. GENDER will positively make you a MALE..."
Thanks. The article seems to be written by somebody who thinks being emotionally distant is the way to raise sons. One interacts with small children differently from how one interacts with teenagers.
Mom thought it would be easiest for him to just put our hair in pigtails for school. So after we were dressed in our little catholic uniforms, he lined us up in front of the vacuum cleaner.
He wrapped rubberbands around the nozzle, and sucked half the hair into the contraption and popped off the band. Viola! Perfect pigtails! Eight of them in less than five minutes.
All the nun-teachers knew mom was away and he was taking care of us. My teacher expressed her amazement at how perfect my pigtails were as she wrapped some ribbon around them (he “forgot” the ribbon). I told her how he made the pigtails and I thought she would bust a gut! She laughed half the day over that. After lunch all the nuns were marveling about the perfect pigtails and giggling.
GREAT story .. that's seriously funny + excellent engineering .. thanks !
Let me guess, your Dad invented the Flowbee.
What’s a flowbee?
Only the greatest invention ever!
I wonder if that gadget works! No, thank goodness, my dad was not tasked with cutting our hair. Just pigtails. LOL
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