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To: jmacusa
Both Hitler and Stalin were idiots. Stalin murdered the cream of his officer corps because he was paranoid that they'd rise up against him.

Hitler was an idiot for not invading the USSR earlier in the year, and for giving Communists the one thing they've never had before or since- the Moral High Ground.

Hitler defenders say that the USSR would've invaded in summer of 1942....you ever see Soviet soldiers perform well outside of the USSR? If the USSR invaded, Hitler's Wehrmacht would've been able to easily defeat them in a defense and counterattack battle.

The only reason the Soviet troops defeated Germany was because they were full of revenge and vodka.

6 posted on 02/02/2013 8:34:29 PM PST by MuttTheHoople (Pray for Joe Biden- Proverbs 29:9)
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To: MuttTheHoople

Had the Russkies invaded Germany they’d have thrown the guns away and would have started to make off with everything that wasn’t nailed down.


7 posted on 02/02/2013 8:47:56 PM PST by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: MuttTheHoople

The Russians had time to prepare very strong defenses. I have read that at places they had 40 miles deep of tank traps, over a million anti-tank mines. Defenses where they knew the Germans would have to be directed through in which they had every spot measured with chains for distance. It was basically a suicide mission.

Of Course I am talking about Kursk now. I think the main thing was the Russians had them outnumbered pretty bad and also had fine tanks. The T-34. Still after all this the Germans came fairly close to winning, One 3 tank group knocked out 78 Russian tanks. Of those 3 Tigers, I think they were hit 151 times


8 posted on 02/02/2013 8:51:16 PM PST by yarddog (One shot one miss.)
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To: MuttTheHoople
Far more to it. Germany could never conquer Russia, it could only scare Stalin into a treaty. *1) In winter 1941-42 the US and Britain provided KEY tanks, gas, aircraft, and radios, including at one point 85% of ALL heavy tanks outside of Moscow. Also, we gave the Soviets the P-39 Airacobra which we wouldn't even use but which became their best fighter from 1942-3.

2) After that, German generals knew they couldn't win. Read Guderian's diary. They vastly underestimated the space and distances, and were still a horse-drawn army, with 120,000 horses in Russia. The German generals knew that the Russian manpower reserves were endless.

3) US/Brit bombing absorbed a whopping 30% of ALL military production it was remotely possible at Kursk, had there been no western bombing, that an additional 30% more air, could have won that battle, but long term, there was not enough air to overcome 200 infantry divisions.

In our new "Patriot's History of the Modern World to 1945" Dave Dougherty and I have looked at all the most recent scholarship, some of it pretty revealing.

11 posted on 02/03/2013 3:06:38 AM PST by LS ('Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually.' Hendrix)
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