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Krauthammer: If You Take Up Arms Against The United States You Have Forfeited Your Rights
RCP Video ^ | 2-6-2013

Posted on 02/07/2013 12:41:53 PM PST by Sir Napsalot

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER: I really don't understand this sort of hysteria over the idea of killing Americans who have taken up arms against the United States. Thousands of Americans, Southerners, died in Antietam without any due process. When we stormed the beaches of Normandy on D-day, and Americans approached German bunkers, I don't think anybody asked if they were any German-Americans here, I want to read you the Miranda rights. If you take up arms against the United States you were a target because it was an act of war and you forfeited those rights.

(Excerpt) Read more at realclearpolitics.com ...


TOPICS: Politics
KEYWORDS: drone; dronekilling
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1 posted on 02/07/2013 12:42:05 PM PST by Sir Napsalot
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To: Sir Napsalot

The Hutaree were accused and arrested for being suspected of plotting against government.

All were acquitted.

Good thing the emperor can’t use drone strikes here......yet.


2 posted on 02/07/2013 12:44:43 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Sir Napsalot

And yet, terrorists who come into this country in order to kill as many innocent people as possible need to be afforded rights out the wazoo.

*Twilight Zone Theme*


3 posted on 02/07/2013 12:48:00 PM PST by Luircin
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To: Sir Napsalot

If someone takes up arms against this country, there should be a process to strip them of their citizenship. Then you can paint a target on their back.


4 posted on 02/07/2013 12:50:13 PM PST by DManA
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To: Sir Napsalot

I am gonna go with Krauthammer for bit. Here’s how: If I catch someone attacking my wife or daughter, I will not await due process. I think it is arguably analogous that if we catch someone in the act of attacking the US, they are a ‘combatant’ and are fair game for a Hellfire at that moment.

The Antietam analogy falls apart though because those folks were identifiablly combatants, actively at war.

Having written all this, I am confident this regime would apply the ‘logic’ of this argument in a twisted and evil way and would happily ‘drone’ someone who simply opposed or disagreed with them ... or was otherwise inconvenient. Stroke of the pen; law of the land.


5 posted on 02/07/2013 12:51:11 PM PST by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur: non vehere est inermus)
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To: Sir Napsalot

He’s trying to protect and ensure his existence as a token disabled RINO appeaser with a misguided intellect. I put him in the same class as Obama.

Odd that he calls the potential actions of the oppressed illegal, particularly when is the basis on which this country was founded.

A despicable selfish worthless appeasing wonk.


6 posted on 02/07/2013 12:51:24 PM PST by Gaffer
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To: Sir Napsalot
Krauthammer: If You Take Up Arms Against The United States You Have Forfeited Your Rights

Charles, you miss the point completely. Killing traitors is OK, even encouraged. It's the process of WHO decides WHO qualifies that bothers me. It's not a very far reach to envision the kenyan deciding that anyone who opposes him, or his policies, is worthy of a Hellfire missile.

A foreign usurper has set himself up as judge, jury and executioner, ignoring most of The Constitution and Bill of Rights. What's the difference between him and a dictator?

7 posted on 02/07/2013 12:51:26 PM PST by The Sons of Liberty (It's not "GUN CONTROL"! It's "PEOPLE CONTROL"!)
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To: Sir Napsalot

That precedent was set during the Bush Administration when it was decided that U.S. citizens identified as enemy combattants forfited their right to due process. They are past traitors. They are the enemy of this country engaged in war against us, and they will do harm to innocent Americans in any way they can whenever the opportunity arises. If you can capture them, then capture them. If you can kill them, then kill them. But whatever it takes, they have to be stopped. And those who wrung their hands over poor Jose Padilla and waterboarding, but who now defend airstrikes from drones are nothing but hypocrites.


8 posted on 02/07/2013 12:51:49 PM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: Sir Napsalot

There WAS process involved before a single rebel was shot in the Civil War. The entire government approved it. It wasn’t done with just a word from Lincoln.


9 posted on 02/07/2013 12:52:05 PM PST by DManA
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To: Sir Napsalot

I’m with Charles. If the ACLU and CodePink are up in arms, then I’m the opposite. Much prefer water-boarding tho.


10 posted on 02/07/2013 12:52:22 PM PST by bboop (does not suffer fools gladly)
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To: Sir Napsalot

When the government finally passes a total firearms ban, will refusal to surrender your guns be considered “taking up arms against the U.S.”?


11 posted on 02/07/2013 12:53:17 PM PST by kevao (.)
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To: DManA

Some of those killed were misidentified. You can’t say “sorry, we thought you were a traitor”.


12 posted on 02/07/2013 12:54:22 PM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Sir Napsalot
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another...


- The People, once.
13 posted on 02/07/2013 12:56:35 PM PST by golux
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To: Sir Napsalot
What if you didn't take up arms and the government forfeited your rights anyway?


14 posted on 02/07/2013 12:56:41 PM PST by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: Sir Napsalot

Someone needs to tell Charles the difference is... when our troops stormed the beaches of Normandy, uniformed German soldiers were firing on them. There was no doubt — nor time to seek any — that our guys were facing unfriendly forces.

Contrast that to targeting of a purported enemy American in a safehouse in some foreign land. The “intelligence” data that identifies this individual is the brought to us by the same folks who did such a bang-up job predicting the attack on our consulate in Benghazi. Add to that.. the decision to turn this individual into a pink mist will be made by some unknown operative in the administration who will act as judge, jury and executioner. And let’s also not forget the POS in the White House is quite fond of stretching the extent of his powers.

Krauthammer’s comparisons don’t hold water, because the differences couldn’t be more stark.


15 posted on 02/07/2013 12:57:20 PM PST by ScottinVA (Gun control: Steady firm grip, target within sights, squeeze the trigger slowly...)
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To: Sir Napsalot

I heard this piece by Krauthammer, but I think he partly missed the point. The loudest objection I know of is to the president arrogating to himself the ability to execute Americans abroad who, he thinks, are terrorists. No trial, no questions. The way Krauthammer phrases it, he assumes that the “people who have taken up arms against the U.S.” are proven to have done so. In fact, I’ve seen no evidence that this will be the case. The Nazis on D-Day are a straw argument, because there was no doubt they had taken up arms against us.

Krauthammer was right when he said the memo seemed to have been written by someone in the fifth quintile of their law class. As he analyzed it, “suspects are fair game for assassination when they are posing an imminent threat” + Al Qaeda members are a threat 24/7 = suspects can always be assassinated, making any conditional statements farcical.


16 posted on 02/07/2013 12:57:39 PM PST by Chad N. Freud (FR is the modern equivalent of the Committees of Correspondence. Let other analogies arise.)
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To: Sir Napsalot

Judge Napolitano said that even Lincoln placed the constraint that Confederates could only be killed in combat.


17 posted on 02/07/2013 1:00:08 PM PST by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: The Sons of Liberty

I wonder Charles did you clap with joy when you found out The FBI Sniper Lon Horiuchi (Manslaughter Man) was going for a twofer when they shot vicky Weaver in the head?

Did you scream with joy when OUR Federal government torched a compound in Waco, TX burning alive many children and women.

Some times Charles I think you studied pysch. to deal with your own demons.


18 posted on 02/07/2013 1:00:28 PM PST by VRWCarea51
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To: DManA

Are you referring to the Confederate States being designated as a Belligerent Power?


19 posted on 02/07/2013 1:00:28 PM PST by gov_bean_ counter (Hope and Change has become Attack and Obfuscate.)
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To: Sir Napsalot

We’re not talking about killing turncoat Americans as part of general warfare.

We’re talking about targeting specific individuals for assassination.

That’s a massive difference, and I’m surprised Krauthammer seems oblivious to it.


20 posted on 02/07/2013 1:01:07 PM PST by tanknetter
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To: Chad N. Freud

What’s to stop a dictator from declaring that anyone who opposes him has “taken up arms against the US”? The libs have already laid the groundwork by declaring that Christians, conservatives, and other non-leftists are enemies of the state.


21 posted on 02/07/2013 1:03:39 PM PST by jda ("Righteousness exalts a nation . . .")
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To: DManA

That’s the point. If we’re going to have drones flying over Omaha, then let’s debate it, vote on it, let it go through the vetting process. If Nebraska says no, then the feds should back off. If we’re going to kill US citizens in Yemen, let’s debate it, vote on it, etc.


22 posted on 02/07/2013 1:03:51 PM PST by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Sir Napsalot
Let me explain it to you Mr Krauthammer. WE DON'T TRUST YOU.

Where is your Pulitzer Prize-winning story concerning Obamacare and how socialized medicine always means rationing and lowered standards. Patients die in British hospitals every week from dehydration and starvation!

Where is your story on Benghazi, Fast and Furious, illegal appointees, stolen social security number, forged birth certificate?

Don't lecture US on trusting our government! They do NOT deserve our trust! And you want us to grant Obama, Holder, Biden, Pilosi, Clinton a license to drone kill us? They have a man in prison for making a YouTube video for heavens sake!

23 posted on 02/07/2013 1:05:05 PM PST by Casie (Chuck Norris 2016)
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To: Chad N. Freud

My biggest issue is that we’re talking about suspects here. We aren’t talking about guys like Bin Laden who have been convicted (in absentia).

This is shoot first, worry about evidence later.


24 posted on 02/07/2013 1:05:55 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: All
The FBI Director, under oath, cannot say whether the new directive would apply to Americans on U.S. soil or not.

FBI unsure of killing American Citizens! What is Obama up to? video 4:07 Jan. 24, 2013

25 posted on 02/07/2013 1:07:24 PM PST by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: Sir Napsalot

Seems to me, regular Joes have extraordinary faith in our government and our representatives.

Yet again and again we hear and know abundance incompetence or worse lawlessness and corruptions in ‘our government’.

There is no doubt on going debate/discussion is needed as Dr. K suggested, but the Left/ACLU were quick to point out “freedom fighters” etc etc, once some one is dead, case closed. How do we know the beautiful Neda Agha-Soltan won’t happen here?

Exit question: Waco would not happen (and subsequent Oklahoma city bombing), if drone strike were available at the time? Were people omniscient enough (”legal, ehtical and wise”) to use it?


26 posted on 02/07/2013 1:09:43 PM PST by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
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To: Blueflag

Our military is supposed to be going after the people who are doing this - not some video game player in the WH who gets to push the “ZAP” button based upon his own whim.

Yet our military is not allowed to fight, barely allowed to kill people on the battlefield, and not even allowed to defend themselves on their bases.

Meanwhile, Obama acts as judge, jury and executioner in front of his TV screen.

There are procedures for charging somebody with treason, and that’s all he’d have to do.

Now he’s just blasting some of the treasonous mutts that he’s had a falling out with; how long until he decides that a citizen of this country deserves to be zapped just because they oppose him and he’s decided on his own that opposing him is treasonous?


27 posted on 02/07/2013 1:10:20 PM PST by livius
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To: TigersEye

To the tune of “Send in the Clowns”:
.............................................

Michelle´s a b!7(# , aren´t we a pair?
Me here at last in DC,
Drones in the air.
Send in the drones.

Isn´t it bliss, Don´t you approve?
The one who keeps tearing it up;
Constitution no more.
Where are the drones? Send in the drones.

Just when I declared all of those wars
Finally taking away all that was yours.
Making my speeches again with my usual flair
Teleprompter my lines, ´cause nothing is here.

Don´t you love Farce? My rule you´ll fear
I thought you´d want what I want.
Not sorry, you fear, But where are the drones?
There must be more drones. Quick, send in more drones.

What a surprise, who could foresee?
I´ve come to hate you even more than you hate of me.
Why only now have you started to see, that all I say.
Is all lies, my life a cliche.

Michelle´s a b!7(# , but me you should fear.
Taking your freedom, the point of my career.
And where are the drones? Quick send in the drones.
Don´t bother, they´re here.


28 posted on 02/07/2013 1:11:22 PM PST by LegendHasIt
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To: DManA
If someone takes up arms against this country, there should be a process to strip them of their citizenship.

Do you really think that? If you do, then you are implicitly rejecting the Declaration of Independence which explicitly states that it is the right of the people to alter or abolish tyrannical governments... and how would one force abolition of a government? Is it not in human nature to try to hold on to power, especially powers you illegitimately hold? How then would the people attempting abolition of wicked governance not be held to be enemies of that governance? -- Indeed, even they would count that government as opposition.

29 posted on 02/07/2013 1:12:53 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: listenhillary

At the same time citizens of German ancestry were free to go about with their schnitzel, strudel, beer and sausage loving lives.


30 posted on 02/07/2013 1:13:31 PM PST by Rebelbase ( .223, .224, whatever it takes....)
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To: Sir Napsalot

This guy is a liar. They
put my Italian-American grandmother under house arrest in WW2 - They confiscated her shortwave radio and she could not receive Italian newspapers. She could not leave her property for 3 years. But she hid my grandfather`s pistol which my cousins found in 1998 buried under the cellar cement. But the Mafia smuggled in Italian newspapers during the war for her to read. I still got the radio. All these German-American and Italian-American accounts of house arrests can be found the the local NY newspapers archives.


31 posted on 02/07/2013 1:14:26 PM PST by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Marchione.)
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To: kevao
No doubt the low information, low IQ, MSNBC watchers will consider defending the Constitution by refusing to relinquish our final check on tyranny will consider that act as “taking up arms.”

That said, were these imbeciles around in 1775, they'd have felt the same about the folks who mustered on Lexington Green that April morning.

32 posted on 02/07/2013 1:14:47 PM PST by Dick Bachert ("Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." T. Jefferson)
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To: Sir Napsalot

Does the principle apply to 0bama as he regularly takes up arms against the Constitution?

See abuses by the BATF.


33 posted on 02/07/2013 1:14:51 PM PST by Uncle Miltie (Of the government, by the government, and for the government.)
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To: DManA
If someone takes up arms against this country, there should be a process to strip them of their citizenship.

Do you really think that? If you do, then you are implicitly rejecting the Declaration of Independence which explicitly states that it is the right of the people to alter or abolish tyrannical governments... and how would one force abolition of a government? Is it not in human nature to try to hold on to power, especially powers you illegitimately hold? How then would the people attempting abolition of wicked governance not be held to be enemies of that governance? -- Indeed, even they would count that government as opposition.

34 posted on 02/07/2013 1:15:38 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: kevao
When the government finally passes a total firearms ban, will refusal to surrender your guns be considered “taking up arms against the U.S.”?

You know the answer to that...........The ongoing demonizing of firearm owners is all the warning anyone needs.

35 posted on 02/07/2013 1:15:38 PM PST by doorgunner69
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To: Sir Napsalot
Exit question: Waco would not happen (and subsequent Oklahoma city bombing), if drone strike were available at the time? Were people omniscient enough (”legal, ehtical and wise”) to use it?

Damned straight they would use it, right down to the County Sheriff level with all the clarity and reverence to detail given to no knock raids... Many people would die. American Citizens without any due process. All at the hands of some Barney Fife aided by some high school drop out Xbox Live expert at the joystick...

36 posted on 02/07/2013 1:18:10 PM PST by VRWCarea51
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To: livius

The Hutaree were arrested and charged on less than I see posted at FR every day.

Killing them outright sure would have been a lot less embarrassing to the feds than losing miserably in court because the feds lacked a case.

I don’t want to hear about how it could never happen on American soil because 5 year ago they were saying there would never be drones in American skies.


37 posted on 02/07/2013 1:18:10 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: ScottinVA
"...made by some unknown operative in the administration who will act as judge, jury and executioner. And let’s also not forget the POS in the White House is quite fond of stretching the extent of his powers.

Exactly. We need to STOP letting them open these doors. The TSA is a perfect example. TSA agents are already showing up at Republican rallies, sports events and bus stations.

This is the same point that Bill Whittle made. Nothing in Washington stays the same size as the box it came in. Once released it mutates and expands and reaches. Do we really want to see where "legal drone executions of American citizens" takes us?

38 posted on 02/07/2013 1:20:13 PM PST by Casie (Chuck Norris 2016)
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To: bboop
I’m with Charles. If the ACLU and CodePink are up in arms, then I’m the opposite.

I agree. I have no problem with drone strikes on Americans abroad who have join terrorists groups. I'm sad to see so many conservatives just reflexively oppose this. John Bolton said the current drone policy "appears to be consistent with the policies of the Bush administration.". Bolton supports this policy, so does the American public and I agree with it as well.

39 posted on 02/07/2013 1:22:58 PM PST by Longbow1969
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To: cripplecreek

US Congressman Tom Graves, a Republican from Georgia, asked the FBI’s Mueller if Holder’s qualifications for an ordered kill could be applied domestically.

“I have to go back. Uh, I’m not certain whether that was addressed or not,” responded an unsure Mueller.

Rep. Graves from there rephrased his inquiry, asking if, “from a historical perspective,” the federal government has “the ability to kill a US citizen on United States soil or just overseas.” Mueller once again suspended an explanation.

“I’m going to defer that to others in the Department of Justice,” responded the director.


40 posted on 02/07/2013 1:23:35 PM PST by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: Longbow1969
Bolton supports this policy, so does the American public and I agree with it as well.

Hooray for democracy! The majority agree that Constitutional due process is just a PITA.

41 posted on 02/07/2013 1:25:40 PM PST by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: Sir Napsalot

Since the Department of Homland Security is a para-military inside the domestic borders of the US and is not constitutional, and if it were to oppose the people of the United States with force, it would then, by this definition mark all DHS agent and the Congress and President who controls them as no longer American Citizens and subject to execution.

Seems to me to be a stupid can of worms to open. There is plenty enough power to kill on whim for a president with shockingly few checks and balances.


42 posted on 02/07/2013 1:38:55 PM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: Sir Napsalot
May Krauthammer reap his reward slowly when his useful idiocy is no longer useful, as useful idiots always do.
43 posted on 02/07/2013 1:43:44 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: TigersEye

Lets not forget that the UN is seeking access to our drones now as well.


44 posted on 02/07/2013 1:44:41 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

Are they? Isn’t that cute. I guess they are smart enough to not put UN boots on the ground here. It wouldn’t be as easy as raping and pillaging small African countries.


45 posted on 02/07/2013 1:48:03 PM PST by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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To: Sir Napsalot

First of all, Chuckles, you don’t have bupkus to say about my rights. Secondly, if you try to deprive me of those rights, YOU forfeit the right to life and liberty.


46 posted on 02/07/2013 1:50:19 PM PST by IronJack (=)
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To: cripplecreek

Yes, killing your enemies outright is always easier and less messy than this stupid due process stuff.

And think how much more fun it is for Bambi. Almost like “shooting skeet.”


47 posted on 02/07/2013 1:51:45 PM PST by livius
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To: American in Israel; All

“Punish Our Enemies” (Obama to Latinos, Univision interview, Oct 2010)

Oooopsie, Mr. Obama told Baisden that he should have used the word, “opponents,” rather than “enemies” .....

Riiiiight. Everything peachy?


48 posted on 02/07/2013 1:58:21 PM PST by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
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To: kevao
>>When the government finally passes a total firearms ban, will refusal to surrender your guns be considered “taking up arms against the U.S.”?<<

Yep! And it’s rather dismaying to see FReepers so readily agreeing that anyone who opposes this government is an “enemy of the government” and not deserving of due process. The constitution doesn’t say “unless” when it spells out the rights of Americans to due process.

49 posted on 02/07/2013 2:03:48 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2)
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To: CynicalBear
Yep! And it’s rather dismaying to see FReepers so readily agreeing that anyone who opposes this government is an “enemy of the government”

There were a fair number of Germans who didn't buy the nazi version of the reichstag fire but they weren't communists so they went on about their lives. Besides, questioning it too much might get one labeled a communist.
50 posted on 02/07/2013 2:07:59 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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