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How the LAPD Lost my Trust
Gun Watch ^ | 10 February, 2013 | Dean Weingarten

Posted on 02/09/2013 5:19:56 PM PST by marktwain

I am a certified firearms instructor who has taught CCW classes in Arizona since the beginning of the CCW program there in 1994. As we are on the border with California, I watch the developments there with some interest. Unfortunately, nearly everything that I have read and heard about the LAPD and guns has lead me to distrust them.

I had numerous students who had dealings with the LAPD. I started hearing stories about how guns were seized, even if there were no crime involved. If an officer came across a gun, it was seized, and it would not be returned until the LAPD received a court order demanding that it be returned. As hiring a lawyer to obtain a court order could easily cost thousands of dollars, very few people even tried, as the cost was far more than the firearms were worth. This is legalized theft.

The practice has finally been challenged in court, and the Ninth Circuit has ruled that the under the fourth amendment, LAPD cannot simply steal firearms that are lawfully owned. The government is appealing the decision in Messerschmidt v. Millender.

I have also heard of California police who stop someone that has a firearm in their vehicle, who may have violated one of the many arcane firearms laws of the State. If the officer is being charitable, he may allow the individual to simply give the gun to him, rather than face felony charges.

The crowning moment came for me when I was describing the practice to a class of students, and one of them said "My brother is an LAPD police officer, and he has an amazing collection of firearms. Citizens just gave them to him to dispose of."

This is the stuff of third world dictatorships.

The other practice that made me distrust the LAPD has been their scofflaw attitude toward court orders to administer the California CCW program as the law requires. They have failed to do this for 17 years, even though ordered to do so by the court. The Court order was originally obtained by a legal action won by the Second Amendment Foundation. In the intervening years two more amended judgements of declaratory relief were signed. A current appeal to enforce the court order is in the works from the National Rifle Association and the California Rifle and Pistol Association.

When the LAPD engages in systematic legalized theft, and refuses to follow court orders to uphold the law, when they routinely fail to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, even though they have taken an oath to do so, they have lost my trust.

Dean Weingarten

Link to NRA update: Messerschmidt v. Millender

Link to NRA update, CCW process enforcement appeal


TOPICS: Government; History; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; 4thamendment; banglist; ccw; confiscation; donutwatch; fourthamendment; guncontrol; lapd; ninthcircuit; ninthcircus; secondamendment
If the MSM would insist that government officials follow their oath of office, we would not be in trouble today. Instead, they applaud officials who violate their oath as having "grown" in office.
1 posted on 02/09/2013 5:20:04 PM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

They can’t shoot straight either!


2 posted on 02/09/2013 5:25:14 PM PST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: marktwain

Or as Obama would say, “evolved”.


3 posted on 02/09/2013 5:25:22 PM PST by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: marktwain

Wow! Dirty cops. What a surprise. You can repeat this story for Chicago and New Orleans as well, that I am aware of. Two completely useless departments.


4 posted on 02/09/2013 5:25:38 PM PST by rey
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To: marktwain

I lost respect for them one rainy earl morning they made me get out of my truck stand in the rain while they ran my info after the Rodney King celebrations the cops were both black I was and still am a very obvious atoe head


5 posted on 02/09/2013 5:26:50 PM PST by al baby (Hi Mom)
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To: marktwain

In the way that ‘big government’ is bad, so is ‘big police’ and for the same reasons. Too much power.


6 posted on 02/09/2013 5:30:17 PM PST by Misterioso ( "Those who grant sympathy to guilt, grant none to innocence." - Ayn Rand)
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To: marktwain

Which is why police should be jailed when they break the law.


7 posted on 02/09/2013 5:32:29 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: marktwain
Man this is just the 99% makin’ the 1% look bad.
8 posted on 02/09/2013 5:33:24 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: marktwain

It isn’t hard to figure out why Christopher Dorner is becoming a folk hero to a lot of people.


9 posted on 02/09/2013 5:35:12 PM PST by Fiji Hill (Io Triumphe!)
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To: Fiji Hill

A real-life Jason Bourne?


10 posted on 02/09/2013 5:39:09 PM PST by abb
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To: marktwain
Beware all paperboys in Grey Tacomas!


11 posted on 02/09/2013 5:53:28 PM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: marktwain

“This is the stuff of third world dictatorships.”

In California, it’s not going to get better.

It will soon get worse. Much worse.

This is how it’s going to go in the “new-slavery states” — the “blue” states.

Conservatives should get themselves into the remaining “free states” while the gettin’s good.

I wish there was more resolute advice to offer. Sadly, at this point in our nation’s history, there seems to be little else to do but for conservatives to vote with their feet. In places like California, voting at the ballot box no longer works.


12 posted on 02/09/2013 5:57:38 PM PST by Road Glide
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To: marktwain
"If an officer came across a gun, it was seized, and it would not be returned until the LAPD received a court order..."

That's standard policy in at least several states of the Midwest. One in MO was saying on this discussion board that he confiscated firearms wherever he found them without any other cause, including those carried by drivers with concealed carry permits. Don't remember the username.


13 posted on 02/09/2013 6:16:16 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: American in Israel

Everyone beware, these cops are scared and they are going to shoot first and investigate later. They have immunity and the city pays .... so shoot first and investigate later.


14 posted on 02/09/2013 6:21:10 PM PST by RetiredTexasVet (The Progressive mind...an arid ethical and moral wasteland!)
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To: marktwain

15 posted on 02/09/2013 6:23:27 PM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: marktwain
"My brother is an LAPD police officer, and he has an amazing collection of firearms. Citizens just gave them to him to dispose of."

I'm sure ex-LAPD officer Christopher Dorner has accumulated a similarly amazing collection. We may be hearing all about it over the next month or so.

16 posted on 02/09/2013 6:24:16 PM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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Charlie Sheen reaches out to ex-LAPD officer accused in killings.
[ Libs create yet another killer ]
Fox News | 2-9-13 | fox new
Posted on 02/09/2013 5:17:44 PM PST by NoLibZone
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2986988/posts


17 posted on 02/09/2013 6:32:15 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: marktwain

When the NY State Police went on their dog and pony show touting the SAFE law it was amazing to see the trooper in action. He had no compunction about how tis was an infringment on our rights...he saw it as another opportunity to be SUPER COP.

I was stunned. An Oathkeeper he was not.


18 posted on 02/09/2013 6:32:44 PM PST by Ouderkirk (Obama has turned America into an aristocracy of the unaccomplished.)
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To: Valpal1

Self ping


19 posted on 02/09/2013 6:37:28 PM PST by Valpal1
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To: marktwain

Putting >50 rounds into a non-descriptive p/u without a warrant is a real legal problem. That an occupant haw been severely impacted by retarded LEO’s is a Constitutional issue.


20 posted on 02/09/2013 6:48:00 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: CodeToad
Pretty much the reason why we need to up the ante ~ we the people need to have regular provision of military grade hardware so that we can protect ourselves when the cops and military officers go on rampages.

Major Hasan, and now this idiot ~ and Hasan was even a trained psychiatrist.

The government has shown no interest whatsoever in protecting us from the mentally ill ~ they leave it to us ~ we need the very best to make it real.

21 posted on 02/09/2013 6:59:28 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: marktwain

Nothing here even begins to justify the killing of a cop’s daughter and her fiancé.


22 posted on 02/09/2013 7:01:03 PM PST by JimSEA ( “what difference does it make?”)
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To: JimSEA

“Nothing here even begins to justify the killing of a cop’s daughter and her fiancé.”

That is correct.


23 posted on 02/09/2013 7:08:20 PM PST by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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24 posted on 02/09/2013 7:09:06 PM PST by RedMDer (Support Free Republic)
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To: muawiyah

I am not sure if it was the late 1860s or the early 1870s but my late wife’s ancestors were given three Spencer rifles and a pile of ammunition when the Army learned they were going to travel through Comanche territory. They also armed a young man who was traveling with them.

As it turned out they needed them. They got into a big fight with the Indians and succeeded in beating them off in a two day battle.


25 posted on 02/09/2013 7:16:32 PM PST by yarddog (One shot one miss.)
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To: yarddog
The Comanche are one of those groups that seemed to pop up out of the woods without antecedants ~ yet, they wore fancy European dress, and carried firearms. They engaged in widespread raiding of settled areas.

I think they had their base of operations in Helena ~ but that has yet to be proven ~ they ranged from there across the Great Plains down into Tejas ~ like they knew where to go and where to hide.

If anyone knows a Comanche you might see if they'd be interested in one of those genealogy DNA tests.

26 posted on 02/09/2013 7:22:09 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: JimSEA
Nothing here even begins to justify the killing of a cop’s daughter and her fiancé.

Who on this thread said that it did?

27 posted on 02/09/2013 7:23:41 PM PST by Half Vast Conspiracy (Based on a letter from an 8 year old…school is now illegal…”cuz it’s yuckey and dumb".)
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To: muawiyah

The only Indians we thought we were kin to were the Euchee. One of our GGGGrandfathers was married to an Indian woman.

Not too long ago I found out she was his second wife after his first one died. It is through the first one, we are related so technically no kin at all.


28 posted on 02/09/2013 7:34:03 PM PST by yarddog (One shot one miss.)
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To: Half Vast Conspiracy

No FReeper, but this guy is being elevated to the status of a folk hero and he is no more deserving than were Bonnie and Clyde.


29 posted on 02/09/2013 7:40:25 PM PST by JimSEA ( “what difference does it make?”)
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To: muawiyah

For questions about the Comanche, you could ask Prof. David Yeagley...

Descendant of Comanche war chief Bad Eagle...

Blogs here: http://www.badeagle.com/


30 posted on 02/09/2013 8:39:50 PM PST by elteemike (Light travels faster than sound...That's why so many people appear bright until you hear them speak!)
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To: JimSEA

LOL!

When one can’t readily discern any real differences between the bad guys and the good guys, folk hero’s are born!

Who is more “deserving” of hero status in your view?
1.The original sick freak who murdered multiple victims.
2.The multiple sick freak cops who have tried and failed to murder innocent bystanders, multiple times, while claiming to be searching (under color of law) for the original sick freak.

Meanwhile...


31 posted on 02/09/2013 9:16:58 PM PST by sarasmom (The obvious takes longer to discover for the obtuse.)
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To: marktwain
do I really have to say it???

32 posted on 02/09/2013 9:21:22 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: marktwain

What boggled my mind was when Kali passed laws on purchase of ammunition, then aware that their subjects, chafing under the newest infringement, might seek to skirt it in bordering free states, demanded that gun and sporting goods stores in those OTHER STATES require ID for purchases!! No jurisdiction over those businesses, yet they think they can demand that people smart enough not to live under their tyranny help them enforce laws those people may or may not agree with, for free!! And the ATF backed them up!!


33 posted on 02/09/2013 11:07:39 PM PST by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Road Glide
I wish there was more resolute advice to offer. Sadly, at this point in our nation’s history, there seems to be little else to do but for conservatives to vote with their feet. In places like California, voting at the ballot box no longer works.

Problem is, the fascist voters are too stupid to connect their politics to the results, are for some reason allowed to leave the hellholes they've created, and for some extremely inexplicable reason, are allowed to VOTE in the free states they've immigrated to because of the results of conservative electorates!

34 posted on 02/09/2013 11:10:28 PM PST by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Paladin2
" retarded"

Please consider Idiotic, Moronic, Imbecilic, Crazy, Daft, Deranged, Idiotic, etc.

35 posted on 02/09/2013 11:13:46 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: marktwain

“Nothing here even begins to justify the killing of a cop’s daughter and her fiancé.”


Psyops


36 posted on 02/10/2013 1:16:04 AM PST by S.O.S121.500 ( Nothing so vexes me as a Democrat above ground...ENFORCE THE BILL OF RIGHTS.)
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To: marktwain
The terrified cops will threaten, harass and shoot more innocent people in their terror before they catch this guy.
cops harass helicopter shoot dorner pickup women

cops shoot innocent truck dorner idiots murder

Your papers please...
helicopter nazis harass woman rockcollector police

37 posted on 02/10/2013 2:56:18 AM PST by Bon mots (Abu Ghraib: 47 Times on the front page of the NY Times | Benghazi: 2 Times)
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To: CodeToad

BMFL


38 posted on 02/10/2013 3:21:02 AM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: JimSEA
Nothing here even begins to justify the killing of a cop’s daughter and her fiancé.

OK, I'll bite.

What does your non-sequitur have to do with a third-world banana-republic "police" force stealing property from law-abiding peasants at gunpoint?

39 posted on 02/10/2013 5:26:46 AM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: marktwain
There is a long and negative trend away from police officers being civilians and toward them being paramilitary. Even older is the movement away from being “peace officers” to being “law enforcement”.

Peace is objective and public. Law enforcement takes all the brains out of being a cop. How often have police officers said, "I'm just doing my job." Essentially it is the same as stating, "I was just following orders."

At the same time, this movement is fundamental to liberalism which doesn't believe in the sanctity or sovereignty of the individual. Voters let this happen. Instead of blaming cops why aren't we working to reverse the trend by changing the laws and influencing our elected officials?

40 posted on 02/10/2013 6:22:42 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: muawiyah
Major Hasan, and now this idiot ~ and Hasan was even a trained psychiatrist.

I forgot that! I wonder how many antidepressants, etc. he was gobbling. That seems to be the common denominator in just about all these mass murders, but no one wants to mention it.

41 posted on 02/10/2013 9:29:21 AM PST by Forgotten Amendments (I remember when a President having an "enemies list" was a scandal. Now, they have a kill list.)
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To: Forgotten Amendments

They don’t have to eat antidepressants to be crazy. They are crazy first; get misdiagnosed; get drugs with some zonk power but not enough. If they were injecting thorozine into these bozos from the start you wouldn’t hear about any of this.


42 posted on 02/10/2013 9:50:59 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
They are crazy first; get misdiagnosed; get drugs with some zonk power but not enough.

It sounds like chicken/egg. But Google "Zoloft violent". Lots of sad people flipping out AFTER taking the meds. I'm tellin' you, it's a huge factor. And I think it's a factor in all these military suicides.

43 posted on 02/10/2013 10:02:57 AM PST by Forgotten Amendments (I remember when a President having an "enemies list" was a scandal. Now, they have a kill list.)
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To: Forgotten Amendments

When you become schizophrenia that’s genetic ~ and all these real crazoids are schizoid. It hits in the early 20s. There are no medicines that can cure it. In it’s earliest stages it is difficult to diagnose. However, it’s very real.


44 posted on 02/10/2013 10:28:00 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

I’m not talking about schizos. I know all about them. I’m talking about relatively normal folks who go berserk. For example - Phil Hartman’s wife.

Tell me if I’m wrong, but I thought it’s very rare for a schizo to go violent.


45 posted on 02/10/2013 10:47:18 AM PST by Forgotten Amendments (I remember when a President having an "enemies list" was a scandal. Now, they have a kill list.)
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To: Forgotten Amendments

“40 year old Brynn Hartman showed up at the house sometime between 2 and 3 AM, completely drunk and coked. She had been drinking that night with a friend till 10 o’clock, in the Buca di Bepo restaurant on Ventura Boulevard, I don’t know where she was after that.” ~ normal? She was a doper ~ http://www.findadeath.com/Deceased/h/Phil%20Hartman/phil_hartman.htm


46 posted on 02/10/2013 11:16:53 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Forgotten Amendments

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/180/6/490.short and http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/09/20/new-genetic-links-found-between-schizophrenia-bipolar-disorder/29594.html


47 posted on 02/10/2013 1:18:19 PM PST by muawiyah
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