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SHOCK REPORT Veterans Receive Letters From VA Prohibiting Ownership or Purchase of Firearms
Gateway Pundit ^ | 2/22/13 | Jim Hoft

Posted on 02/22/2013 8:08:18 AM PST by illiac

This must be Barack Obama’s way of thanking our veterans for serving. US veterans are receiving letters from the government informing them that they are disabled and not allowed to own, purchase or possess a firearm. If the veteran does decide to purchase a firearm he will by fined, imprisoned or both. This comes on page 2 of the VA letter.

(Excerpt) Read more at thegatewaypundit.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; guns; military; obama; secondamendment
zero's way of saying thanks to our vets....
1 posted on 02/22/2013 8:08:22 AM PST by illiac
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To: illiac
Who is the top dog that issued this Unconstitutional demand?

Short rope + long drop!

2 posted on 02/22/2013 8:11:49 AM PST by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: illiac

Ping .for later.


3 posted on 02/22/2013 8:13:28 AM PST by BigCinBigD (...Was that okay?)
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To: rawcatslyentist

Good question...will be working on this all day...


4 posted on 02/22/2013 8:14:17 AM PST by illiac (If we don't change directions soon, we'll get where we're going)
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To: illiac

ping

pong


5 posted on 02/22/2013 8:15:08 AM PST by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: illiac

ping me please if you come up with something...


6 posted on 02/22/2013 8:15:27 AM PST by corlorde (forWARD of the state)
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To: illiac
If someone is judged mentally incompetent, do you WANT them to have guns?

The original article isn't much better:

http://redflagnews.com/headlines/disarming-americas-heros-veterans-receiving-official-letters-prohibiting-them-from-purchasing-possessing-receiving-or-transporting-a-firearm-or-ammunition

It argues:

"The answer seems to be it is simply because they are veterans. At the USJF we intend to find the truth by filing a Freedom of Information Act request to the Department of Veterans Affairs to force them to disclose the criteria they are using to place veterans on the background check list that keeps them from exercising their Second Amendment rights. Then we will take whatever legal steps are necessary to protect our American warriors."

Oddly enough, I have 25 years in, and haven't been judged mentally incompetent. If the VA doctors have reason to tell the VA that you aren't capable of handling your money, then maybe you are NOT competent to handle guns.

This is the best picture I could get:


7 posted on 02/22/2013 8:19:25 AM PST by Mr Rogers (America is becoming California, and California is becoming Detroit. Detroit is already hell.)
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To: illiac

I’m withholding judgment until I hear from a FReeper who’s received one of these letters.


8 posted on 02/22/2013 8:20:09 AM PST by Marie ("The last time Democrats gloated this hard after a health care victory, they lost 60 House seats.")
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To: illiac

So decisions must be made - accept government benefits and become a slave or forgo those benefits and live as a free man. The choice is yours


9 posted on 02/22/2013 8:20:17 AM PST by slumber1 (Don't taze me bro!)
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To: illiac
You can't own a gun if you are a criminal..... To Obamanites we all are criminals... We won't take your right to own guns away... We'll just make it impossible to keep them...King Obama  photo disa.jpg
10 posted on 02/22/2013 8:20:49 AM PST by baddog 219
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To: corlorde

Appears to have come from a K. Kalama from the Veterans Service Center Manager and cc:’d to the Oregon Dept of Veterans Affairs...can be found here:

http://redflagnews.com/headlines/disarming-americas-heros-veterans-receiving-official-letters-prohibiting-them-from-purchasing-possessing-receiving-or-transporting-a-firearm-or-ammunition


11 posted on 02/22/2013 8:24:57 AM PST by illiac (If we don't change directions soon, we'll get where we're going)
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To: slumber1

It’s applies to those judged “mentally incompetant” by the VA. Ex.: the Marine PTSD TX range shooter. This should help to prevent lots of Vet suicides.


12 posted on 02/22/2013 8:26:18 AM PST by Justa
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To: Justa

I understand to whom it applies. The problem is the slippery slope of the definition of “mentally incompetant”


13 posted on 02/22/2013 8:32:17 AM PST by slumber1 (Don't taze me bro!)
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To: Justa
It’s applies to those judged “mentally incompetant” by the VA. Ex.: the Marine PTSD TX range shooter. This should help to prevent lots of Vet suicide.

I think I would trust a PTSD veteran over Boama’s “Citizen Soldiers”

14 posted on 02/22/2013 8:35:50 AM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: illiac

I would certainly like to see what the “information” the VA has received and by whom.


15 posted on 02/22/2013 8:38:36 AM PST by corlorde (forWARD of the state)
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To: illiac
We know a lot of this (all-types of gun control initiatives) has been percolating for awhile - bit really seems it is coming "fast and furious" from all directions all of a sudden.

Draconian legislation in NY and CT states (and others) and huge push from all areas of the Federal Gov.

Are we edging closer than we thought just a few short years ago?

16 posted on 02/22/2013 8:41:58 AM PST by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: slumber1

“mentally incompetant”

My definition is anyone who registers as a democrat.


17 posted on 02/22/2013 8:44:25 AM PST by Mouton (108th MI Group.....68-71)
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To: illiac

Since I am vet with PTSD then I will get one of them letters. This admin must really be scared of us crazy vets. By the way I am still going to have a weapon. I went through one tyrannical government and did not own a weapon to defend my family with I will not do so again.


18 posted on 02/22/2013 8:51:07 AM PST by Americanexpat
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To: illiac
Form 4473, question 12.f: "Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes having been adjudicated incompetent to manage your own affairs) or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"

DOJ says:Section 922(g)(4), Title 18, United States Code, prohibits the receipt or possession of firearms by an individual who has been "adjudicated as a mental defective" or "committed to a mental institution." Regulations issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), 27 C.F.R. § 478.11, define these terms as follows:

Adjudicated as a mental defective.

(1) A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease:

* Is a danger to himself or to others; or
* Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs.

(2) The term shall include —

* A finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and
* Those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility pursuant to articles 50a and 72b of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 10 U.S.C. 850a, 876b.


I would agree for a finding of insanity in a criminal case, and for incompetent to stand trial. I would not consider any casual letter from a VA blogger or "Veterans Service Center Manager" to be a determination by a lawful authority, certainly not without a formal, in-person hearing. I would toss that junk mail and truthfully answer that I had never been "adjudicated mentally defective". The petty tyrants in Obama's regime can go . . . never mind, they are already certain to go there.

19 posted on 02/22/2013 8:54:56 AM PST by Pollster1
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To: Americanexpat

Or this went out to some truly disabled vets.

The only detailed case I saw do far was for a vet with Dimesia.


20 posted on 02/22/2013 8:56:45 AM PST by Pikachu_Dad (Impeach Sen Quinn)
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To: Psalm 73

It seems that I’ve had dealings with “Redflagnews” before, and IIRC came away with the impression that they make Alex Jones and George Noori look extremely credible by comparison.

I’m not going to get too cranked up about this until I hear about it from a source I trust... or get my disarmament order from the VA.

If I do, you’ll be among the first to know about it.

Sad to say, it really wouldn’t surprise me any if it is true.


21 posted on 02/22/2013 8:58:59 AM PST by George Varnum (Liberty, like our Forefather's Flintlock Musket, must be kept clean, oiled, and READY!)
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To: illiac
I don't think there has to be a finding of "mentally incompetent", rather the VA decides the person is "incompetent to handle his affairs" (financial stuff). The VA can assign someone else to handle your "affairs", then deny you the ability to pass the NICS. Tom Coburn tried to get this changed last winter by adding to the defense appropriation bill (I think), but was unable to get it done.

Read about NICS, here BACKGROUND INFORMATION ON THE NICS IMPROVEMENT AMENDMENTS ACT OF 2007 AND ANSWERS TO “FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS”

.....No. The NICS Act does not change the prohibition enacted in 1968 that bars people who are dangerously mentally ill from purchasing or possessing a gun. Under federal law, people may not buy or possess a gun if they are “adjudicated as a mental defective” or “committed to any mental institution.” ATF regulations define “adjudicated as a mental defective” as a:

determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) Is a danger to himself or others; or (2) Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs.
.....

This has been around for some time. Now, how long have the VA bureaucrts been doing this?....... I've seen numbers of 127,000 designations since 1998.
22 posted on 02/22/2013 8:59:28 AM PST by Girlene
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To: corlorde

I suspect the VA has access to VA health records. The main point of this letter is to say that they believe the person receiving it isn’t competent to manage their finances and needs someone else to spend the money on their behalf. And a judgment of mentally incompetent by the VA still allows an appeal to the courts.


23 posted on 02/22/2013 9:02:04 AM PST by Mr Rogers (America is becoming California, and California is becoming Detroit. Detroit is already hell.)
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To: Psalm 73
‘Are we edging closer than we thought just a few short years ago?’

None of this should be a surprise to anyone who has glanced up from their Starbuck’s el Grande Latte every few seconds.

Having obtained a second term, Obama will push every left-wing pipe dream the left has been fantasizing about for the last 50 years.

We are all headed for a high speed head-on crash with the proverbial brick wall.

24 posted on 02/22/2013 9:02:10 AM PST by Delta Dawn
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To: Girlene

Veterans coming back from Iraq or Afghanistan are sometimes told that they can get extra government benefits if they have mental problems. Some of those mental problems do NOT keep a person from owning a gun, but some do. My son-in-law was a Marine, and has 100% disability for various back, leg and shoulder injuries - and brain damage. However, the brain damage he suffered is the sort that affects short term memory, and so he is still fully legal to own and use guns. Just don’t ask him which gun he shot at the range 24 hours later, or he may have forgotten...


25 posted on 02/22/2013 9:07:38 AM PST by Mr Rogers (America is becoming California, and California is becoming Detroit. Detroit is already hell.)
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To: Mr Rogers

I go in to the VA once a year for a physical. And they wonder why I skip the “mental health” evaluation portion. Pretty soon, just doing that will probably generate an automatic letter and an “appointment” to see if I am “competent” enough to manage my own affairs.


26 posted on 02/22/2013 9:08:34 AM PST by corlorde (forWARD of the state)
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To: corlorde

This will dissuade veterans from seeking treatment for PTSD, depression, etc. Thanks, Obama. You ungrateful twit.


27 posted on 02/22/2013 9:08:44 AM PST by Brownie63
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To: Brownie63

That ship sailed for me three years ago. I no longer “talk about things” with any “mental health professional” at the VA.


28 posted on 02/22/2013 9:10:38 AM PST by corlorde (forWARD of the state)
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To: Justa

Simply suffering from PTSD does NOT make one incompetent or dangerous.


29 posted on 02/22/2013 9:12:33 AM PST by Miguel Alberto
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To: Justa
 photo horror-story_510x3171.jpg Don't ever let them know you are 'anxious'.
30 posted on 02/22/2013 9:24:52 AM PST by RetSignman ("...a Republic if you can keep it")
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To: Mr Rogers

From some of the comments I’ve read about this issue, the problem arises when a vet is deemed unable to handle their own finances. Now, whether they can or can’t actually do so, also seems to be an issue. Either way, if the VA determines you must have someone else handling your affairs, I believe you are then put on the NICS list as being incapable to buy guns. Since 2007, I believe, they now have to allow a vet the ability to petition this statement of incompetence.

God bless your son, and I thank him for his service.


31 posted on 02/22/2013 9:25:57 AM PST by Girlene
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To: Delta Dawn
"None of this should be a surprise to anyone who has glanced up from their Starbuck’s el Grande Latte..."

I drink coffee the old-fashioned way (don't like the clientele at coffee shops, esp. Starbucks).
But I am amazed at the speed it is all coming at now - we will not make it to the 2016 elections (maybe not even the 2014 mid-terms).
This will not end pretty.

32 posted on 02/22/2013 9:36:01 AM PST by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: Americanexpat

Please let us know if you get one of these letters.


33 posted on 02/22/2013 9:40:11 AM PST by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: Justa

Limited access to guns will not prevent a suicidal person from going through with it.

I’ve been around a couple of public suicides this year:
One guy jumped off a bridge, the other stepped into the fast lane on Interstate 4 late at night.


34 posted on 02/22/2013 9:44:01 AM PST by EricT. (The Second Amendment is Tyrant Control.)
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To: Mr Rogers

Except for the ones that blew up in Oklahoma that time. (When Clinton was POTUS)


35 posted on 02/22/2013 9:52:43 AM PST by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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To: AuntB

Y
Yes, I will do that.


36 posted on 02/22/2013 9:56:05 AM PST by Americanexpat
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To: illiac

Unless I received a court order from an actual court with an actual judge, I would ignore it. Let the VA go pound sand...


37 posted on 02/22/2013 9:57:57 AM PST by apillar
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To: illiac
I read your post, then I went to the site. I had to download the pictures from “RED FLAG” then zoom in to read it...... I don't think you have read the letters from the VA sighted here. The letter seems to state that for what ever reason the recipent of the VA benefits cannot manage the payments them self and a “fiduciary” is to handle the payment. If you cannot handle your own money because of a handicap, how is that person to handle their firearms? or their car for that matter? I all of us vets should keep an eye on this, but it seems that the vet in this letter has bigger issues to worry about that 2nd amendment rights.
38 posted on 02/22/2013 10:09:29 AM PST by 3clean
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To: Americanexpat

When they start coming after guys like you, they’ll have to lock me up!


39 posted on 02/22/2013 10:20:26 AM PST by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: illiac

BTTT!.....


40 posted on 02/22/2013 10:41:44 AM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: illiac

Please reefer to 38 C.F.R. § 3.353 Determinations of incompetency and competency. The procedure for determinations of incompetency has been a part of veterans law for many years (before Oboma was born) and is intended to protect severely impaired veterans from being taken advantage of. Yes, there are veterans who are not able to fend for themselves and there are people who will abuse them. This procedure is rarely necessary but in some cases it is a lifesaver.


41 posted on 02/22/2013 10:43:07 AM PST by etcb
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To: illiac

Some Freeper answer this question for me.

Obama is the Commander in Chief.
US military bases are under federal jurisdiction.
Post and base exchanges have gun stores in them.

Why doesn’t he order them (the gun stores) shut down immediately?


42 posted on 02/22/2013 10:47:15 AM PST by CodeJockey
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To: Mr Rogers

A critical detail is *who* does the judging. In this case, a VA bureaucrat, not a doctor or judge, decides that the veterans are incompetent. What criteria they use are appalling.

EMPHASIS MINE:

(Dec-03-12) “Over the past several years, four unsuccessful attempts have been made to turn the Veterans Second Amendment Protection Act into law. Last week, one of its 21 co-sponsors in the Senate, Republican Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, tried to attach it as amendment to the defense appropriations bill. It momentarily “threatened to become the biggest sticking point” in getting that $631 billion bill passed. It appears Coburn will give up that effort, but seek to add the amendment to some other bill.

“At issue is whether a veteran who has been found unable to handle his or her FINANCIAL AFFAIRS should have the right to own a gun.

“The Department of Veterans Affairs frequently assigns someone else, often a family member, to handle a veteran’s finances, including his or her government pension and benefits.

“This triggers a report to the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) that the veteran is “incapacitated.” Under the law, any such person, veteran or not, is barred from buying or owning guns. The law also applies to family members living under the same roof.”


43 posted on 02/22/2013 11:01:20 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
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To: illiac

Don’t worry Vets, I bought enough to hand out when needed.


44 posted on 02/22/2013 12:09:33 PM PST by Boiling point (Socialism; Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.)
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To: rawcatslyentist; illiac
Who is the top dog that issued this Unconstitutional demand?

That would be Mr. Barack Hussein Obama, AKA Barry Soweto, AKA POTUS. I'd give you a date of birth to help you determine exactly with whom you may be dealing, but the accounts of his birth seem to be unsupported by accurate birth records.

45 posted on 02/22/2013 1:23:04 PM PST by archy
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To: illiac
Unless a copy of that letter is posted, I am ignoring this entire thread.
Sounds like disinformation to me, with the sole purpose of triggering the PTSS whacko veterans.
46 posted on 02/22/2013 2:05:38 PM PST by publius911 (Look for the Unin label, then buy something else.)
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To: publius911

Letter can be found here:

http://redflagnews.com/headlines/disarming-americas-heros-veterans-receiving-official-letters-prohibiting-them-from-purchasing-possessing-receiving-or-transporting-a-firearm-or-ammunition

I am curious about this as well...


47 posted on 02/22/2013 2:16:12 PM PST by illiac (If we don't change directions soon, we'll get where we're going)
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To: AuntB

Ya know I beleive the this all started when they first started pulling cars over for just having veterens stickers on cars, remember that? Remember Katrina when they used the National Guard to confiscate guns in New Orleans? These people in this government are purely evil.


48 posted on 02/23/2013 2:51:44 AM PST by Americanexpat
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To: Miguel Alberto

“Simply suffering from PTSD does NOT make one incompetent or dangerous.”

I’d like to believe that.

Although I have never been diagnosed with PTSD for several years after returning from Iraq I would have panic attacks whenever I became lost or disoriented while driving -even with a GPS. I would classify my driving at those times as both incompetent and dangerous.


49 posted on 02/23/2013 4:17:27 AM PST by Justa
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