Skip to comments.Report: Vets may be deemed incompetent without due process, cannot own firearms
Posted on 02/23/2013 11:29:16 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
On Thursday, Michael Connelly, J.D., executive director of the United States Justice Foundation, said that veterans are receiving letters informing them that the government is about to declare them incompetent to handle their own affairs. As a result, Connelly said, the government will "appoint a stranger" to handle their affairs at their expense, and restrict them from owning firearms. Worse yet, he says, this is being done without due process.
A determination of incompetency will prohibit you from purchasing, possessing, receiving, or transporting a firearm or ammunition. If you knowingly violate any of these prohibitions, you may be fined, imprisoned, or both pursuant to the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, Pub.L.No. 103-159, as implemented at 18, United States Code 924(a)(2), the letter reportedly says.
According to Connelly, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs has sent this letter to "hundreds, perhaps thousands" of veterans.
"In my capacity as Executive Director of the United States Justice Foundation (USJF) I have been contacted by some of these veterans and the stories I am getting are appalling," he added.
The letter contains no specifics and gives no reason for the proposed judgment other than to say that someone in the VA has made the recommendation. The letter then tells the veteran that he or she must provide evidence to the contrary within 60 days. If the veteran desires a hearing, they must inform the VA within 30 days...
(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...
Meanwhile, in Obama's New Model Army...
Just another part of the Constitution they want to circumvent! I am really getting tired of all of the anti-Constitutional acts by this Government! What’s worse is that our so called elected Representatives don’t seem to notice the flagrant bills that are Unconstitutional!
Why vote for any of them these days?
A few years back I'd have thought that pure tinfoil hat material.
Those of us who are not in this particular bind should have an 'extra' and at least a couple of basic ammo loads to share with a friend if the shtf.
If it gets nasty, they can at least wish for more wishes...
What Good Can a Handgun Do Against An Army?
Does anyone know if this letter is really being sent out? It sounds so preposterous that I’ve been dismissing it as tinfoil hat stuff, but I’m starting to see this same story from different sources now. Do any Freepers have firsthand knowledge of this story? Thanks!!
In every jurisdiction I have ever worked in, “competence” is a matter of court-determined cognitive abilities, not a matter of sanity. Competence is also situation specific.
For instance, a person may be crazy as a loon, but if they are capable mentally do basic math, balance a check book, pay their bills, and shop and prepare their own food and such, they cannot be declared incompetent with regard to their monies, and a conservator to handle their finances cannot be appointed against their will, even if they choose to spend their money on drugs and alcohol, etc.
Similarly, an ill person with intact cognitive functions who cognitively understands their medical condition and the proposed treatments, yet chooses to forego recommended lifesaving treatments for any other reason - even voices telling them to do so, or such - cannot be declared incompetent to make those decisions, and cannot have a treatment guardian appointed to make such decisions against their will.
Competence is a cognitive determination, rendered after a specific, independent evaluation rendered by a psychiatrist or psychologist who has tested for the cognitive abilities pertinent to a specific situation or function. The ultimate determination is a legal opinion rendered by a court, and during this legal process the person being rendered incompetent may defend themselves, enlist attorneys, and ask for their own, or a court-appointed, independent evaluator. As far as I know, some person or agency cannot simply declare someone incompetent until they are able to prove themselves otherwise.
I doubt these VA letters were predicated on such legal processes. I doubt very many vets, except those with brain damage severe enough to render them unable to ever learn again how to safely fire a weapon, could meet the legal requirements I have always practiced under. Mere PTSD, or even suicidal or homicidal tendencies do not imply cognitive disabilities of the sort required for “incompetence” to handle a gun. Evidence, presented in a court, may convince the judge that, due to a mental illness, “immanent and substantial danger to self and others” exists, and that may lead the judge to adjudicate the person “mentally ill,” and THAT may preclude firearm ownership, but that is not the same issue as the legal term “competence” used here.
[May I remind you that the obligatory FR requirement to include professional and personal slurs and vehement loathing overall when replying to posts by a shrink is - as far as I know - still in effect. Please don’t skimp on the venom.]
‘deem’ all they want. it holds absolutely no legal authority
someone should file a class action against these people for mass harassment / threats
I would ignore that letter if I received one. “Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective . . . ,” only applies to a hearing with due process, not your buddy saying “you’re crazy” when you ask the CO’s wife to dance, and not to some petty paperwork pusher sending a politically motivated letter with the same meaning and even less justification.
Part of the conservative response to Newtown was a push to make it harder for the mentally ill to get hold of guns.
The problem, of course, is that some person, presumably a medical professional, will have to make the diagnosis whether a person is mentally ill. And of course the definition of what exactly constitutes “mentally illness,” much less “dangerous mentally illness” is notoriously slippery.
It is difficult to imagine a scenario under which the Newtown shooter would have been kept away from guns without violating his civil rights.
Unless we want to get into that whole “pre-crime” bit.
Well I know that not one member of our Local VFW has recieved one. Thats just over 300 vets.
And we’re some crazy old coot’s.
Agree with ^ statements. This is just a slick way of slipping another one under the door that the current administration hopes doesn’t get noticed. They know the vets are old tired, too tired and usually too poor to fight them in the ours over this and they know if it’s not challenged it’s just another incremental shoe-in to get laws passed to keep the guns out of the hands of people with “mental” problems; a definition that is so ambiguous and non-definitive in nature that they can redefine it to suit their needs. I’d guess Tea Party members and those that worship God will be put into the “delusional” category by their athiest standard.
Truly have you ever seen a more despicable, dishonest, deceptive and depraved administration in the history of the U.S. Thankfully I am beginning to see signs that even the liberals / left are beginning to question his judgment. When they get their new Obozocare care bill next year and notice their paycheck has been lightened from higher payroll taxes and that the price of everything has gone up maybe they’ll get that the Prez is more interested hobnobbing with celebrities on golf courses and selling their government out to the highest bid for takeover than them.
Everybody's focused on "veterans".
Chuck U Schumer already put them on notice:
I love our veterans, I vote for them all the time. They defend us, Schumer said. If you are a veteran or not and you have been judged to be mentally infirm, you should not have a gun.
“a veteran OR NOT” says Chuck U
This popped up on the net about 4 months ago. I contacted several of my retired buds, one who owns a gun shop, and could not find any that had received a call or letter.
Have anyone of you contacted a vet or are a vet received a call or letter to date? I have sent out another email to about 20 of my contacts who are retired military trying to see if anyone of them have received such a contact. I also asked them to ask all of their contacts the same question.
I do not put it past the FERAL Government to do this. They have violated every article in the Bill of Rights and want to disarm us or piss us off into starting CW2, but I want to here that this is actually happened from one of my buds.
If the feds say they are incompetent to handle their own affairs and own firearms then they probably can’t tell right from wrong and will get off when charged with murder. Unintended consequences.
This is how the Obama administration will disarm America. With Obamacare the government will have access to everyone’s medical records and anyone with a “mental disorder” or deemed “unstable” will simply have their guns confiscated and be denied the ability to purchase firearms. The government’s criteria for who can have their guns confiscated will become so broad that taking any kind of anti-depressant, being a combat veteran or even telling your doctor about any family problems will be cause you to be deemed mentally unstable.
I know these letters are pretty standard for vets that have been approved for the Aid and Attendance pension. This is for vets who need assistance with one or more of the daily activities of living. Typically they are elderly and facing some sort of dementia issues. My father is on the program and got this letter. A family member can be appointed as the vet’s fiduciary.
“Report: Vets may be deemed incompetent without due process, cannot own firearms”... and vets with such illnesses as PTSD will not be able to get law enforcement, fire dept. jobs etc.
Here’s a site that ran the story http://redflagnews.com/headlines/disarming-americas-heros-veterans-receiving-official-letters-prohibiting-them-from-purchasing-possessing-receiving-or-transporting-a-firearm-or-ammunition. If you look at the PDF file at the bottom of the story, it shows a letter sent to a Vet in Oregon dated 20 Dec 2012. I had to laugh when I saw this because the VA Team manager who signed this has had quite a few of his teams disability rating decisions overturned at the Federal Level. There is another story at Red Flag News that can be found by going to the site home page that talks of a growing support for a class action lawsuit. Hope this helps.
I recently spoke to a Marine back from Afganistan.
He said the VA docs were very aggressive in trying to diagnose him with PTSD. They kept trying to find some reason to diagnose him despite his assurances that he did not have nightmares, felt no emotional turmoil, etc.
I know this particular guy very well. He came back totally unfazed and unaffected by his combat experience. In fact, he told me he enjoyed his time hunting talibunnies as any red blooded American warrior would.
Look people, this is not a conspiracy theory, it is an obvious POLICY and strategy of the Maladministration.
YES, they are trying to use PTSD as an excuse to take away Second Amendment rights and to obtain control over the vet’s finances.
I wonder who they will appoint as steward of the poor, disabled vet? Could it possibly be a dim getting fat on his percentage?
This group of veterans fought at the food court at SF downtown mall, [there are no confirmed account of who threw the first cannoli] in the first known engagement it is noteworthy that the of 1st Hair Dresser Battalion the 69th LGBT division stood proud ignoring that they had been penetrated and took everything thrown at them unflinchingly; ... You Go Boys!!!
Saw it being discussed early this morning on Fox.