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College educations creating plenty of debt but not much skill
Coach is Right ^ | 2/24/13 | Jerry Todd

Posted on 02/24/2013 8:41:12 AM PST by Oldpuppymax

Our children’s opportunities to learn based on technological advances has been more than offset by the loss of appreciation of literature and the humanities – including history, theology, philosophy and even economics. Our old friend Jon T. Barton, a classical violinist wrote an 800 page 2 volume work called “The Bible in Western Literature.” He co-authored with attorney John Whitehead a 1981 book, “Schools on Fire” – a prophetic work warning of the now deplorable and unnecessarily expensive condition of American education.

I met a young man recently with a degree in “Environmental Studies” from screwball UCal/Santa Cruz, home of the Banana Slugs. His student loan is $90,000 and he still can’t get a job. His girlfriend has a degree in Psychology and is...

(Excerpt) Read more at coachisright.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Education; History; Society
KEYWORDS: collegeeducation; skills; studentloans; unemployment

1 posted on 02/24/2013 8:41:24 AM PST by Oldpuppymax
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To: Oldpuppymax
I met a young man recently with a degree in “Environmental Studies” from screwball UCal/Santa Cruz, home of the Banana Slugs. His student loan is $90,000 and he still can’t get a job.

This doesn't even qualify him for Walmart. He has no register experience.

It's not Wall Street robbing these kids. The liberal colleges and their professors are getting rich, rich, rich of these young suckers.

2 posted on 02/24/2013 8:46:17 AM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: Oldpuppymax

It used to be that college students were preferred for high tech and other jobs due to their presumed critical thinking skills garnered from 4 years of higher education. The only thing being garnered from our institutes of higher learning is how to take advantage of the system, how to roll a joint or funnel a beer, and how to hook up with random people.

College is a joke anymore.


3 posted on 02/24/2013 8:46:34 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: concerned about politics

It’s never been about educating them. It’s about getting the interest paid back on the loan....; )


4 posted on 02/24/2013 8:51:46 AM PST by jsanders2001
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To: concerned about politics

Enviro Studies sounds like four years reading propoganda magazine articles.

That emphasis in Law or Engineering at least implies a basic skill set.


5 posted on 02/24/2013 8:54:04 AM PST by KC Burke (Plain Conservative opinions and common sense correction for thirteen years.)
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To: Oldpuppymax

Unless you study engineering, pre-med, math or sciences college is not really worth it. These are non PC majors and you actually use what you learn in your career. Most profs in these areas are non political.


6 posted on 02/24/2013 8:55:36 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Oldpuppymax

We’ve used taxpayer money to pump the colleges full of students who are better suited to the factory floor (I know I was but I didn’t waste resources or space in college) Along with those students come professors who would also be better suited somewhere else.

Meanwhile the best and brightest students are forced to slog through a cesspool liberalism when the rational thing would be to have the top professors teaching the best students.

Its no wonder we’re falling behind.


7 posted on 02/24/2013 9:00:04 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Oldpuppymax

This is typical of the marxist libtard approach to all things - spend a lot of other people’s money and wind up with nothing to show for it except a lot of debt.


8 posted on 02/24/2013 9:04:46 AM PST by 43north (BHO: 50% black, 50% white, 100% RED)
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To: KC Burke
Enviro Studies sounds like four years reading propoganda magazine articles.

The kid could have gotten it all for free on the Internet.
Actually, everything the colleges teach these days can be found on the Internet. A kid could easily home school himself for free.

Businesses should encourage home taught employees. They wouldn't come to the job with all that liberal crap on their shoulders, and learning at home does show creativity and self discipline (something not found in school kids today).

9 posted on 02/24/2013 9:05:19 AM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: Oldpuppymax

Just get to know the folks working at your nearby Starbucks and you can visualize half a million in school debt right before your eyes. I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised, but I was that the largest asset held by the Fed govt is school debt. We are devolving into a service oriented society, in which no one will be able to afford those services in a generation. We are no longer thinking college is mandatory for our kids. Find something you love to do, because then you never have to go to “work” everyday.


10 posted on 02/24/2013 9:14:45 AM PST by ScottinSacto
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To: concerned about politics
Businesses should encourage home taught employees.

Investing in it might be a great means of encouraging it. Keep an eye on the homeschoolers pay for the needed supplies and online courses. It can be carried on over to college.
11 posted on 02/24/2013 9:15:22 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Oldpuppymax
A lot of what college is about these days (not all, but a lot) revolves around a jobs program for the unemployable drones that emerged during the 1960’s, masquerading as anti-war protesters.
12 posted on 02/24/2013 9:25:02 AM PST by meyer (When people fear the government, you have Tyranny)
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To: ScottinSacto
We are no longer thinking college is mandatory for our kids.

Thinking all kids should go to college is a fairly recent mistake anyway. Prior to WWII families didn't really expect their kids to go to college unless they showed some particular aptitude or wanted to follow a parent into a career that required college.

In fact, a good many of the high tech jobs that require a degree, really don't. I'm a high school drop out and I learned to program, maintain, and operate the robotics required for my former job.

College should be for those who can afford it without any state or federal help and the very best and brightest students. Cutting out all the students who shouldn't be there will help to put our colleges back out on the cutting edge of science and technology.
13 posted on 02/24/2013 9:27:58 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: rarestia
The only thing being garnered from our institutes of higher learning is how to take advantage of the system, how to roll a joint or funnel a beer, and how to hook up with random people.

Heck, back in the day, we learned all we needed to know about those kinds of things off the street. We didn't even need a college loan!

College is a joke anymore.

To a great extent, that is true. What's needed is a competing accrediting agency (or three) to offset the present monopoly that controls what's considered higher education these days.

14 posted on 02/24/2013 9:28:42 AM PST by meyer (When people fear the government, you have Tyranny)
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To: Oldpuppymax

Permit student education debt to be discharged in bankruptcy and the bogus degrees will disappear. Eliminate federal tuition assistance or guarantees and college costs will plummet.


15 posted on 02/24/2013 9:34:13 AM PST by Sgt_Schultze (A half-truth is a complete lie)
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To: Sgt_Schultze

Everything you buy which is imported, is bought from a factory which does not operate in America.

Think about that.

More and more, we buy things which never were even touched by American hands.

We need to bring back US jobs now.


16 posted on 02/24/2013 9:37:06 AM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Oldpuppymax

Arête.


17 posted on 02/24/2013 9:38:59 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: cripplecreek
problem is, there's damn few factory floors left... and there are plenty of people with factory experienced out of work now

of course unions/union mentality are mostly to blame but it is what it is

18 posted on 02/24/2013 9:42:45 AM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

We need to fix education and society to make American manufacturing attractive. After all, even here at FR, getting one’s hands dirty is often looked down upon.

Its too bad Mitt Romney looked upon Mike Rowe’s advice as a campaign tool and photo op before moving on. Rowe gets it in a way that few modern men do.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2650612/posts


19 posted on 02/24/2013 9:45:16 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek
We need to fix education and society to make American manufacturing attractive. After all, even here at FR, getting one’s hands dirty is often looked down upon.

It's not the dirty hands. It's not the job itself. It's the destructive union card that shows up at those jobs.
Right to work legislation is slowly cleaning things up. Now we need to lower taxes for industry, and things would start to go in the right direction.

20 posted on 02/24/2013 9:50:38 AM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: Oldpuppymax
I met a young man recently with a degree in “Environmental Studies” from screwball UCal/Santa Cruz, home of the Banana Slugs. His student loan is $90,000 and he still can’t get a job.

Well, it DOES qualify him for honest work...


21 posted on 02/24/2013 9:51:11 AM PST by freedumb2003 (I learned everything I needed to know about racism from Colin Powell)
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To: concerned about politics
Right to work legislation is slowly cleaning things up.

It is but now the "hero" of RTW in Michigan is back to pushing green tech.
22 posted on 02/24/2013 9:54:47 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Oldpuppymax

You are trained to do a job. You are educated to be a good citizen.


23 posted on 02/24/2013 9:57:47 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: freedumb2003

A garbageman makes good money for an honest job. Back in about 85 I was making $9 an hour and that was in the days of actually hefting garbage cans.


24 posted on 02/24/2013 10:04:38 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Oldpuppymax

Our neighbor kid with liberal Canadian parents is going to get a degree in Philosophy. “Would you like fries with that? And why do fries exist?”


25 posted on 02/24/2013 10:05:01 AM PST by DungeonMaster (How does God feel about gay marriage?)
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To: central_va

I believe that the areas of study originally intended for the land grant colleges is, with rare exceptions, what schools should be teaching:

Engineering, animal science, agronomy, hard sciences, military science.

The hard fact is that the US economy needs exactly zero “english” or “history” majors. We need less than zero “womyn’s studies” or “critical literature” graduates.

We could add two years onto most high school programs and teach everything about business that anyone would need to know and turn them loose into industry, where industry would have to put some specific knowledge into their heads... and the kids would be able to start life without a crushing debt load.


26 posted on 02/24/2013 10:10:24 AM PST by NVDave
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To: cripplecreek
College should be for those who can afford it without any state or federal help and the very best and brightest students.

Do you not realize that the best and brightest students can constitute a group who CANNOT afford college without state or federal help?

27 posted on 02/24/2013 10:11:54 AM PST by OldPossum
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To: OldPossum
Do you not realize that the best and brightest students can constitute a group who CANNOT afford college without state or federal help?

And that is where private and corporate scholarships come in. Those paying for the scholarships won't waste their money on anything less than the best and brightest.
28 posted on 02/24/2013 10:15:23 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: blueunicorn6
You are trained to do a job. You are educated to be a good citizen.

That's profound. The "good citizen" part was tossed into the trash back in the 1960s when "progressive reformers" in the Bill Ayers mold were allowed to gain a stranglehold on the American education system. I've watched helplessly for 40 years as the Marxist point of view has largely replaced traditional American values and loyalty in the name of "political/environmental activism."

Nikita Khrushchev was essentially right when he declared: "We will bury you." The Marxists did it in the classroom and via "popular culture," not the battlefield.

29 posted on 02/24/2013 10:28:56 AM PST by Bernard Marx
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To: concerned about politics

i think MIT has all their course online for free or maybe just all the lectures. no “piece of paper” but lots of learning. also THE GREAT COURSES series of dvds.


30 posted on 02/24/2013 10:32:17 AM PST by bravo whiskey (“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.”)
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To: cripplecreek

I knew you would bring up the subject of scholarships. I have no data but I would highly suspect that there are not nearly enough scholarships available to pay for the multitudes of very bright and ambitious students out there.

Since you have never darkened the door of a college classroom, you do not know that there are more expenses involved than just the tuition, which is what a scholarship typically covers.. It’s unusual for a scholarship to cover room and board. The cost of textbooks (which are very pricey) is a consideration. Also, there are daily living expenses (you know, clothing, health care, some entertainment—going on dates—etc.) involved, too.

On a personal note, I got a couple scholarships and I borrowed $2,200 for tuition, room and board, from the government in the years 1962-1966 to go to college. I was lucky—and it was extreme luck—to be able to cover my other costs, which I did with a great part-time job: being a disk jockey on radio stations in the area. But here’s the rub: how many great part-time work opportunities that I got are out there? I think: damn few.

You’re just hung up on this “get government out of education” meme.


31 posted on 02/24/2013 10:32:51 AM PST by OldPossum
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To: central_va

“Unless you study engineering, pre-med, math or sciences college is not really worth it. These are non PC majors and you actually use what you learn in your career. Most profs in these areas are non political..”

BINGO!

I read the first threads - about 25 or so, and you hit the nail on the head. I might add economics to the list of sensible courses, but that one is subject to PC profs too, although at least that topic has diversity of thought yet.


32 posted on 02/24/2013 10:33:58 AM PST by Gumdrop
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To: Bernard Marx
The Marxists did it in the classroom and via "popular culture," not the battlefield.

Watch the election results on those state level elected education races. Sadly less than half the republicans who voted for Mitt Romney even bothered to vote in those races and we handed every one of them to democrats in Michigan. That was the state board of education seats and all the top governing body seats at both UofM and MSU.

I've found that most FReepers don't even know that such races exist or don't understand that straight ticket votes leave many of those ballot slots empty if there are more than just 1 GOP or conservative candidate.
33 posted on 02/24/2013 10:40:08 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: OldPossum
You’re just hung up on this “get government out of education” meme.

And they're doing a bang up job at it too. LOL
34 posted on 02/24/2013 10:41:47 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Sgt_Schultze

“Permit student education debt to be discharged in bankruptcy and the bogus degrees will disappear. Eliminate federal tuition assistance or guarantees and college costs will plummet.”
Totally agree with this statement, but what about the football? The uneducated football yutes have to have a chance to play futboll!
The hi sculls are all set up for futboll to make the yutes happy. And every university is spending millions on the stupid football programs.
The education system is a scam. Taking money and placing young people in debt for useless degrees.
Sad, just sad I tell ya!


35 posted on 02/24/2013 10:48:42 AM PST by 9422WMR
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To: 9422WMR

Look at Hillsdale college. One of the best liberal arts schools in the country because it isn’t buried under the weight of federal regulations that come with taking federal money.

They recently stopped offering teaching degrees to students who didn’t already have a 4 year degree. They said its because America is producing too many teachers who don’t know how to do anything but teach.


36 posted on 02/24/2013 10:55:56 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Bernard Marx

I could even grudgingly have a little respect for the Democrats if they truly were Marxists. Then, they would just be misguided. The Democrats aren’t Marxists. They throw out enough socialism to win the votes of the low information voters. Is Nancy Pelosi a Marxist? Is Harry Reid a Marxist? Is Max Baucus a Marxist? There is absolutely no evidence that the leaders of the Democrat party are Marxists. So, if it’s not ideology that motivates them to seek these elected jobs, then what is it? Look at the size of the government treasuries. That’s where the big money is. Who is going to miss a few billion off those budgets? The leaders of the Democrat party are Con Men.....Grifters........thieves. The leaders of the Democrat party are nothing more than loud-mouthed bullies out to enrich themselves from the taxpayers.


37 posted on 02/24/2013 10:59:36 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: DungeonMaster

“Our neighbor kid with liberal Canadian parents is going to get a degree in Philosophy.”

I too know a Canadian couple (living in the U.S.) who has a son who wants a degree in Philosophy! Must be something in the water up there.


38 posted on 02/24/2013 12:18:19 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: blueunicorn6

If you look at the leaders of communist/marxist nations, few if any have been willing to live under the very form of government they support (supports them). Actually the same can be said for a fairly wide cross segment of society in those nations to varying degrees.

I wouldn’t be so quick to give the democrat leadership a pass on being marxist because they’re no more or less marxist than any other self described marxist leader.

Marxism is for the little people.


39 posted on 02/24/2013 12:48:08 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: 9422WMR
College athletics is a bum deal. Both basketball and football use colleges as a minor league training grounds. Some players go on to lucrative careers. There are plenty more though who leave college uneducated and under employable. I've long advocated a system which strips away the facade of amateurism that permits athletes to attend the college and take limited courses during their eligibility. After the expiration of eligibility, those student-athlete role-players who cannot make the pros will be guaranteed the remainder of their time to complete their education. No extra charges. Their scholarship will include the degree.

Coaches derive profits from the student-athletes, the NCAA derives profits from the sale of student memorabilia, colleges derive profit from television revenue earned on the backs of the student athletes. Yet the student athlete is expected to accept any education he can squeeze into his full time job of conditioning, practice and games as payment in full for their services as athletic entertainers.

40 posted on 02/24/2013 1:08:48 PM PST by Sgt_Schultze (A half-truth is a complete lie)
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To: cripplecreek

Note that I was not arguing any case for the current situation in which students foolishly over-borrow and major in subjects that will not get them a job (since higher education has turned into a job-training program). I was merely pointing out that there are those who do benefit from being able to go to college with borrowed funds.

I was one of those who borrowed a modest amount, studied hard, and worked my tail off in my spare time to attain the degree that got me interviews which led to a fine career.

And I paid back the government every penny (plus interest) that I borrowed.


41 posted on 02/24/2013 1:10:11 PM PST by OldPossum
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To: meyer

Most university math and science departments are run by foreigners. American students cannot compete with the better-educated Indians, east Asian, and middle Eastern students who excel in those courses.

Even when I was taking upper level math courses for my engineering studies, most of my math and electrical engineering courses were taught by asian men, mostly Chinese. I didn’t understand a word they said in lectures, and their handwriting and English usage was abhorrent. I scraped by in the class, but I was an idiot compared to the rest of the foreign exchange students.

The problem, as I see it, is an abysmal public education system here in the US and a lack of drive on the part of high school graduates. If Uncle Bama can keep them fed and clothed and all they have to do is attend marches and rallies for his cause, why not just do that? Mom and dad’s basement is always available, right?


42 posted on 02/24/2013 1:16:54 PM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: vladimir998

How does one put that degree to work?


43 posted on 02/24/2013 6:21:57 PM PST by DungeonMaster (How does God feel about gay marriage?)
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To: DungeonMaster

Well, a lot of lawyers get Philosophy degrees first (or Political Science or Pre-Law or History). Some Philosophy grads go on to get PhDs in Philosophy and teach it. I suspect that’s what this Canadian kid will do.


44 posted on 02/24/2013 6:48:41 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: NVDave

How about just ending summer’s off and you’d gain 3 years of schooling.


45 posted on 03/01/2013 2:29:09 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

The last thing we need is to leave the kids in the hands of these leftist educrats for more time


46 posted on 03/01/2013 2:31:23 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: GeronL

I never agreed to leave children with government educators, ever.


47 posted on 03/01/2013 2:51:18 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

But you’d still have to pay for it. Colleges charge by the “credit hour,” not by the calendar year.

There’s simply no escaping the hard facts: There’s lots of people paying a lot of money they don’t have to become schooled in nonsensical twaddle that has no future economic value.


48 posted on 03/01/2013 4:09:11 PM PST by NVDave
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To: NVDave

The credit hour is symbolic of why education doesn’t work. It’s designed around teachers and bureaucrats not learners.

Why should I wait for the next class or even the end of the semester? If I get it now, let me advance. There’s no reason college needs to take so long.

I was talking, though, about grade school and high school. There’s no good reason it should take 12 years+ to graduate HS. Well, there is a reason - teacher’s unions.

If you skip twelve summers off you capture 3 years and you’d be able to graduate at 14-15 years old instead of 18+. You could spend the next three years learning and practicing a variety of trades. There isn’t a trade you cannot master in a dozen weeks of doing it.


49 posted on 03/01/2013 5:03:27 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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