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Rand Paul On Illegals: Trust But Verify ^ | February 10, 2013 | William Teach

Posted on 03/14/2013 7:04:45 AM PDT by SoConPubbie

Edited on 03/14/2013 8:22:05 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

I am in favor of immigration reform. I am also wary of reforms granted now for a promise of border security later. In 1986, Ronald Reagan signed a deal that made just such a promise, yet we are still waiting for the border security that never came. Conservatives are also still waiting for the promised three dollars in spending cuts for every dollar in tax hikes. Fool me once So, it is understandable conservatives should insist that any immigration reform incorporate the principle of trust but verify.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; bordersecurity; randpaul

"If we must have an enemy at the head of Government, let it be one whom we can oppose, and for whom we are not responsible, who will not involve our party in the disgrace of his foolish and bad measures." - Alexander Hamilton


"We don't intend to turn the Republican Party over to the traitors in the battle just ended. We will have no more of those candidates who are pledged to the same goals as our opposition and who seek our support. Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldn’t make any sense at all." -- President Ronald Reagan


"A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice." - Thomas Paine 1792


"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams


"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams


1 posted on 03/14/2013 7:04:45 AM PDT by SoConPubbie
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To: SoConPubbie; VinL; ex-snook; sport; INVAR; ejonesie22; PieterCasparzen; Colonel_Flagg; Washi; ...

Rand Paul’s Amnesty Plan Ping!

Tell me why the end result is any different than anyone else’s sellout on Amnesty?

2 posted on 03/14/2013 7:06:19 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency.)
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>> when, in fact, those same legislators would immediately determine that the border was secure, so they’d start “normalizing” the status of illegals.

Exactly. There in no reality in good faith measures. The Marxist scumbags will ultimately poison that which benefits the citizens. Rand knows this and shouldn’t hide the pretense.

3 posted on 03/14/2013 7:17:58 AM PDT by Gene Eric (The Palin Doctrine.)
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Rand knows this and shouldn’t hide behind the pretense.

4 posted on 03/14/2013 7:18:29 AM PDT by Gene Eric (The Palin Doctrine.)
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To: SoConPubbie

We’ll get amnesty but we’ll never get border security.

Rand Paul is either a fool or a liar or both.

Republicans always get snookered by the Open Borders Crowd’s promises.

If you like enfranchising millions of new Democrat voters, by all means back amnesty!

I won’t vote for any GOP presidential prospect who backs amnesty in any form. Its my red line.

5 posted on 03/14/2013 7:27:01 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: SoConPubbie
Every attempt at any type of normalization for illegals always includes the caveat that they have "no criminal record."

There is only ONE way to make this absolutely 100% foolproof. Everyone must be fingerprinted, and run through every LE database. Also, everyone must submit a DNA sample to be run through CODUS.

Can you hear the screams????

6 posted on 03/14/2013 7:29:14 AM PDT by ken5050 ("One useless man is a shame, two are a law firm, three or more are a Congress".. John Adams)
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To: SoConPubbie

American citizens who have advanced degrees are still having difficulty finding work, even those with STEM degrees.

Show me where we have an actual labor shortage, not related to employers’ unwillingness to spend money training employees or pay a living wage, and then we can talk about what categories of immigrants we should admit.

7 posted on 03/14/2013 7:38:19 AM PDT by heartwood
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To: goldstategop

Excellent point. This amnesty crap is slated to lowlife mexican scumbags and not to real Latins or others wishing to immigrate to the US. Part of my family escaped the zone called mexico in the early 1900s. My wife’s family are Colombian but most are naturalized citizens now.

Amnesty hurts all Americans.

8 posted on 03/14/2013 7:38:22 AM PDT by rrrod (at home in Medellin Colombia)
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To: SoConPubbie
1.More border security, particularly using armed agents, rather than using drones and fences.

40% of the illegal aliens in this country came here legally and overstayed their visa. Border security is only part of the answer. We need to fully implement the 1996 US-VISIT program to track and deport visa overstays.

3.Increase the fines and penalties on companies who hire illegals to a point where it is extremely risky, and costly, to those individuals and companies that employ them (there would be no legal ramifications for those who have done due diligence to determine legality)

We can do that by making the E-verify program mandatory like they have done in AZ. The AZ mandatory E-verify law was upheld by SCOTUS. Businesses which knowingly hire illegal lose their business licenses.

4.Massively increase the temporary visa system for temporary workers, said visas to be for no more than a year. Hiring companies would sponsor those visas for the workers, and be responsible for providing health insurance for the workers. These same workers would “lojacked” with a subcutaneous tracking chip to ensure that they leave.

Do we need a massive increase in our guest worker programs when 23 million Americans are looking for fulltime employment? We bring in 1.2 million LEGAL IMMIGRANTS A YEAR now. During the decade ending in 2010, we brought in 13.9 million legal immigrants, the highest in our history. During that same period we had a net loss of 400,000 jobs.

For those who are already here, if they want to be a U.S. citizen they have to prove it before being put on a pathway to citizenship. They would have to speak and write at least high school level English (adults would also have to demonstrate that their kids can read and write English at the appropriate grade level). They would have to pass a 9th grade test on American history and civics. They would not be allowed to be on any governmental programs like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, etc.

Any legislation allows the lawbreakers to stay and work here is amnesty. A path to citizenship is just a bonus. Once you legalize their status, it will be very difficult to prevent them from receiving welfare and entitlement benefits just like any other green card holder. And their Amnerican born children would be entitled to all those benefits. Allowing them to stay here means they get an SSN and must pay into SS and Medicare. Hence, they would be entitled to the benefits.

The Heritage Foundation concluded that the cost of amnesty would be $2.6 trillion just for increased entitlement program costs. And the number of additional LEGAL immigrants who would join those who were the recipients of amnesty through chain migration, i.e., family reunification, would approach 70 million over a 20-year period, assuming there are only 12 million illegal aliens. We cannot assimilate such numbers. An amnesty would destroy the United States of America with the stroke of a pen.

6.They can’t have a criminal record.

How do you define a criminal record? The vast majority of the lawbreakers have not only entered the country illegally--a misdemeanor--but they have also committed other crimes like working illegally, ID theft, tax evasion, lying on employment forms, misusing SSNs, driving illegally, etc. So where do you draw the line on legalizing the status of these lawbreakers?

7.The minute the plan is initiated, any illegal that is caught will be deported within one week. If they have a family, they can bring them. No long hearings. No whining about the family and kids. No fluffy bunny hand-wringing. Caught, gone. That’s it.

So how do you define an illegal if you provide a blanket legalization for all those here? You can't screen them without allowing them to stay and work here. And how are you going to prevent them legally from obtaining the rights guaranteed them under our Constitution? Once they are on US soil, they have certain protections and rights. We are finding that out when we try members of AQ on US soil. Unless you change the Constitution, there will be legal proceedings on anyone charged for deportation.

Why do we need an amnesty? What is the urgency? Why not try attrition thru enforcement? The proponents of amnesty are wont to create the false choice between a blanket amnesty and mass deportation of 12 to 20 million illegal aliens. In reality, we have other choices and alternatives that don’t reward people who have broken our laws with the right to stay and work here and an eventual path to citizenship. The 12 to 20 million illegal aliens did not enter this country overnight and they will not leave overnight. Attrition through enforcement works. We have empirical data from Georgia, Oklahoma, Alabama, and Arizona proving that it does.

Conferring rights and privileges upon illegal aliens has a corrosive effect on the Rule of Law, the very foundation of our Republic. It is also a slap in the face to legal immigrants who have followed the rules and obeyed the laws. There are millions of immigrants waiting their turn overseas to enter the U.S. legally

9 posted on 03/14/2013 7:39:38 AM PDT by kabar
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To: SoConPubbie; AuntB; Liz

Rand Paul Amnesty Plan Ping!

10 posted on 03/14/2013 8:07:54 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency.)
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To: SoConPubbie
Never trust a thief!

If they're here ILLEGALLY stealing jobs and entitlements paid for by hard working Americans then they are thieves.

11 posted on 03/14/2013 8:29:48 AM PDT by South40 (I Love The "New & Improved" Free Republic!)
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To: SoConPubbie

This plan is much better than the Obama plan.

If you have a better plan let me know. No illegals are being sent home at the moment and they are procreating like rabbits so they can stay indefinitely. Doing nothing is de facto amnesty.

12 posted on 03/14/2013 8:31:54 AM PDT by BarnacleCenturion
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To: South40

He is not saying that the illegals should be trusted.

This plan is about securing the border.

13 posted on 03/14/2013 8:34:55 AM PDT by BarnacleCenturion
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To: kabar
agree with your analysis, kabar.

One note on the author's suggestions of These same workers would “lojacked” with a subcutaneous tracking chip to ensure that they leave.

That is a very dangerous suggestion.
14 posted on 03/14/2013 8:43:27 AM PDT by Girlene
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To: SoConPubbie

15 posted on 03/14/2013 8:53:52 AM PDT by RedMDer (Support Free Republic)
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To: BarnacleCenturion
If you have a better plan let me know. No illegals are being sent home at the moment and they are procreating like rabbits so they can stay indefinitely. Doing nothing is de facto amnesty.

Of course I do. It's very simple.

2. Cut off all aid to Illegals. All social services with the possible exception of life-saving health-care.
3. Use E-Verify for all Health-care transactions and Social Services transactions.
4. Use E-Verify for all current and future employees. No valid Social Security #, no job.
5. Prosecute all ID Fraud religiously.

If they can't subsidize themselves using Tax Payer money, if they can't get a job, if they can't get unemployment, they'll leave.

If they refuse to leave, do what Eisenhower did, explicitly deport them.

Rand Paul's plan is not better than Obama's plan, the end-game is the same, complete amnesty for whoever is here illegally.

He just takes longer to get there by doing it 2 million people at time.

His plan does not secure the border, there is no mention of a fence, he relies on the same weasel words that John McCain and all other Amnesty Queens use such as "Normalize" while lying to us that he doesn't believe in Amnesty.
16 posted on 03/14/2013 9:19:02 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency.)
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To: SoConPubbie

No amnesty! No path to citizenship for illegal aliens! No “legal” long term residency status for illegal aliens!

Abide by the constitution, Senator! Uphold your sworn oath and duty... or get the hell OUT!

Enforce the law! Secure the borders!

Rand Paul is just as much an idiot on this issue as the damn America-hating democrats and treasonous McCain RINOs!

17 posted on 03/14/2013 9:34:57 AM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Girlene

Agree, but it will never happen.

18 posted on 03/14/2013 9:59:12 AM PDT by kabar
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To: RedMDer


19 posted on 03/14/2013 10:00:53 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: SoConPubbie
The same story from the original source
20 posted on 03/14/2013 10:27:54 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: SoConPubbie
Rand Paul on Amnesty that he says is not amnesty:
After ensuring border security, then I would normalize the status of the 11 million undocumented citizens so they can join the workforce and pay taxes. I would normalize them at a rate of about 2 million per year. I would start with Dream Act kids, children brought here illegally as minors. Normalization would get them a temporary Visa but would not put them ahead of anyone already waiting to enter the country. These undocumented persons would now be documented but they would still have to wait in line like everyone else. But their path to permanent legal status would be no faster than those currently waiting in line.
Yesterday I was attacked by what I assume are pro-Rand-Paul folks for saying his position on illegals wasn't much different than Jeb Bush. All because he said "I'm not for amnesty". But this quote shows that he is for amnesty.

Also, he claims he won't let those already here illegally get "in front" of others doing it legally, buy he's giving them visas and letting them stay, which means he IS letting them in front of the legal immigrants who can't get visas or come into the country.

And if you DO want to eventually legalize 11 million of them, why pretend you are doing it 2 million a year? You aren't kicking out 9 million after you do the 2 million, so they are all still "working" and still getting benefits, whether you give them legal visas or not. So you might as well just give them all green cards and stop pretending.

I am, as I have been, in FAVOR of amnesty for a subset of those here illegally -- mostly because I don't think we'll ever get rid of them all anyway, because there are a few million who have been here FOREVER, who are actually integrated into our society, already pay their taxes and social security, maybe started businesses, have houses and are members of the communities they live in, have citizen children who have the right to stay anyway, and in every respect except their "overstaying their welcome" are the kind of people we WOULD let immigrate if they applied.

Set a new criminal punishment for being illegal but desirable, charge them a large fine, make them pay back taxes if they owe any, and be done with it.

But that's like 3-4 million max. Send the rest back. And if you want to "give them amnesty", then wipe their record clean, so they can apply for immigration without being penalized for being here illegally before.

21 posted on 03/14/2013 10:35:48 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: ken5050
Can you hear the screams????

The screams wouldn't be any louder than if you packed 'em all in boxcars and shipped 'em south, as many of us seem to prefer.

22 posted on 03/14/2013 12:23:12 PM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: SoConPubbie
  • Deport illegal aliens on contact with LE.
  • Enforce the law vigorously on employers of illegals.
  • Strong border security. Build the physical fence and use high-tech surveillance.
  • Eliminate entitlements for illegal aliens except for true emergency care.
  • End the "anchor baby" policy.

Do those things and illegal aliens will deport themselves and pay for it out of their own pockets.

Legal immigration is an entirely separate issue.

23 posted on 03/14/2013 1:16:41 PM PDT by TigersEye (The irresponsible should not be leading the responsible.)
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