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Modern Manliness and the Perpetual State of Low Expectations
Acculturated ^ | February 14 | R. J. Moeller

Posted on 03/18/2013 9:51:01 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Writing in the Wall Street Journal, Kay Hymowitz posits the following conclusion regarding the current culture of masculinity in the United States:

Not so long ago, the average American man in his 20s had achieved most of the milestones of adulthood: a high-school diploma, financial independence, marriage and children. Today, most men in their 20s hang out in a novel sort of limbo, a hybrid state of semi-hormonal adolescence and responsible self-reliance. This “pre-adulthood” has much to recommend it, especially for the college-educated. But it’s time to state what has become obvious to legions of frustrated young women: It doesn’t bring out the best in men.

As someone who is personally putting his twenties behind him, finally finding a certain degree of success in the line of work I’ve been struggling to break into for half a decade and happily occupied in a serious relationship, let me be the first to say that Hymowitz is categorically correct in her summation of the situation.

Painfully so, in fact. This one hits a little too close to home.....

(Excerpt) Read more at acculturated.com ...


TOPICS: Education; Society
KEYWORDS: feminism; manliness; masculinity; women
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1 posted on 03/18/2013 9:51:01 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Financial independence at 20?


2 posted on 03/18/2013 9:58:14 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I would suggest that a major reason Men Are no longer men is because Women will not allow it.

They what you to be steadfast, but spontaneous, tough, but sensitive, a rock and a willow.
Fix the car and be able to bake a cherry pie.


3 posted on 03/18/2013 10:05:31 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Of course 20 something women have long let go of notions of ponies and princes.


4 posted on 03/18/2013 10:11:12 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: mylife

if that were true they wouldn’t be watching pride and prejudice, and downton abbey and all that stuff.


5 posted on 03/18/2013 10:14:02 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: mylife

It’s been done, but not much lately. My father worked as a “hired man” for another farm family many miles away from home when he was 14. For fifty cents a day and room & board and that helped keep his family from starving to death. These kids have no idea what rough is.


6 posted on 03/18/2013 10:15:23 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: mylife
“in their 20s” not “at 20”

At 20, boys today could be more responsible. But assuredly, by the time you are 24 or 25, you need to have that full time job and stop sponging off of the parents or the government.

7 posted on 03/18/2013 10:19:27 PM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius (www.wilsonharpbooks.com)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I would hardly call that financial independence.
No offense to your father, or any responsible man that pays his way, and that of his family.


8 posted on 03/18/2013 10:19:57 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Women are next to impossible nowadays.
They want instant gratification at every turn.


9 posted on 03/18/2013 10:21:11 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius

I was paying rent to the Parents the moment I turned 18 LOL


10 posted on 03/18/2013 10:22:07 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: mylife

I don’t want a cherry-pie-baking sissy. Any man of mine better be a man, dammit.


11 posted on 03/18/2013 10:28:25 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: mylife
I was out the door at 18 myself, but that didn't mean that I didn't have to go ask for help on occasion. But until I lost my job last year, I had a good run of 17 years of financial independence.

I don't think it is the occasional help from family that is referred to here, it's the fact that it is complete support from family for so many boys into their 30s.

12 posted on 03/18/2013 10:28:47 PM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius (www.wilsonharpbooks.com)
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To: mylife
Different times. When we'd watch The Waltons on TV he'd tell me "those were the rich people" during the depression. Many times the family had a potato to eat. Not one potato each .... ONE POTATO to be split eight ways! His "school lunch" was usually a slice of corn bread with some bacon grease smeared on top of it. I know these sound like the "10 miles in the snow, uphill both ways" stories, but I've been to where he grew up and I believe every word.
13 posted on 03/18/2013 10:29:02 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I think KAY S. HYMOWITZ never grew up.


14 posted on 03/18/2013 10:29:58 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: mylife

oh everything is the woman’s fault always, that is so myopic. If it isn’t your mom’s fault it is your girlfriend’s fault. Grow up


15 posted on 03/18/2013 10:31:04 PM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: mylife
They want instant gratification at every turn.

I find that Cabela's is able to satisfy that need when it arises. ;p

16 posted on 03/18/2013 10:31:41 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: mylife
I would hardly call that financial independence.

I think you are conflating "financial independence" with "independently wealthy".

Financial independence means that you can pay for yourself and no one is supporting you.

17 posted on 03/18/2013 10:31:45 PM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius (www.wilsonharpbooks.com)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius

When I say financial independence I mean, not having to worry about work or the next meal.


18 posted on 03/18/2013 10:32:21 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

LOL!

Of course I am generalizing, just as this article generalizes.


19 posted on 03/18/2013 10:33:39 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: yldstrk

I am merely pointing out that the article lays it all at the feet of men.


20 posted on 03/18/2013 10:34:37 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

I know a lot of women that refuse to cook.


21 posted on 03/18/2013 10:35:53 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: mylife

well today’s men are pretty unreliable and no one thinks it is their job to protect anyone, they are all wanting to take advantage, get over, be in love with themselves, get rich


22 posted on 03/18/2013 10:37:31 PM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

A lot of it just simply has to do with the fact that the price of attaining adulthood has shot out of sight.

It used to be that a young man could get an entry level position job, straight out of high school, and work himself upwards and get the education and training along the way. Now, businesses demand a university diploma before they will even look at a resume and a master’s devree before they will consider you for a well-paying job. Consequently, even if a person has the drive and ambition to get that Master’s degree, straight out of high school, and attains it at about 23 years of ago, that person is starting out $100 grand in debt, or more. He now will have to spend the next 7 years, minimally, paying it off without being able to achieve any of the other adult goals. So this person will be about 30 years of age before he can really start to move ahead.


23 posted on 03/18/2013 10:39:34 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: mylife
I would suggest that a major reason Men Are no longer men is because Women will not allow it.

It's man against man in this world, and women are mere proxies. Open your eyes. ( And don't tell my wife I said that! )

No, but really ...

24 posted on 03/18/2013 10:39:45 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: yldstrk

There is a reciprocal to that, that is rampant in society.


25 posted on 03/18/2013 10:39:54 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: mylife
Financial independence at 20?

Somewhat poor phrasing on the author's part. I think what he meant was, financial self-reliance, which is what most American men in their twenties achieved with relative ease 40 years ago.

I got my first 'real' job at 22, and never looked back. Within eighteen months, I'd bought two brand new cars and had furnished a very respectable rental house for my young wife and our baby.

That was in 1975.

Today, my 32 year old son is struggling to save enough to move his young wife and kid out of her mother's apartment. They've been there for two years.

26 posted on 03/18/2013 10:40:18 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: dr_lew

Quite you fool! /s


27 posted on 03/18/2013 10:40:52 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Windflier

Yes, self reliance is how I would have stated it.


28 posted on 03/18/2013 10:41:48 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: mylife

yeah well, I for one, have cooked dinner every night for the past 23 years and sacrifice for my kids. I expect the man to provide and not whine.


29 posted on 03/18/2013 10:42:12 PM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Jonty30

I say get the Associates if you are a hard charger.

Get in the door first, establish yourself and continue with your education as needed.

Get the company to pay for it if you can.


30 posted on 03/18/2013 10:44:44 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: yldstrk

I note the only time you mentioned hubby was you expect him not to whine.
He expects the same.

No disrespect intended.


31 posted on 03/18/2013 10:47:04 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: yldstrk
I for one, have cooked dinner every night for the past 23 years and sacrifice for my kids. I expect the man to provide and not whine.

My dear wife of seventeen years is just like you, and yes, I do the providing, and don't whine.

Much ;-)

32 posted on 03/18/2013 10:47:10 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Jonty30

Hard Work U (No tuition)
http://www.moneysmartfamily.com/tips/type/college/hard-work

http://www.cofo.edu/

The G.I. Bill
http://gibill.va.gov/

Tuition Free Universities & Colleges Guide
http://tuitionfreecolleges.mtnhome.org/


33 posted on 03/18/2013 10:51:03 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: mylife

Me too. And it’s a sad result of feminism. Obviously, I am decidedly a tomboy. I like fast cars, guns, sports, and power tools, but I also understand how important my role as a wife and mother is to my family. So I cook, clean, and kiss scraped knees too. Any woman who refuses to cook for her loved ones is a selfish b*tch.


34 posted on 03/18/2013 10:52:11 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: warsaw44

.


35 posted on 03/18/2013 10:53:24 PM PDT by warsaw44
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To: yldstrk

If your man provides for you and your children, he’s entitled to whine occasionally.


36 posted on 03/18/2013 10:55:52 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

You’re alright.

I just found Ms Kay Hymowitz a bit whiny.
It takes two to tango.


37 posted on 03/18/2013 10:56:43 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

You need to teach classes. :-D


38 posted on 03/18/2013 11:01:24 PM PDT by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! [You can vote Democrat when you're dead]...)
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To: mylife

yep.

but the whole attitude of ungratefulness permeates the entire culture.


39 posted on 03/18/2013 11:02:11 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Ozark U should be how it’s done.

I also believe that a way should exist for somebody, who,is willing to self-study, to qualify themselves. If I personally find a particular subject fascinating enough that I am constantly reading up on it and solving problems in my chosen area of expertise and I can pass any test you want to give me, why should my particular process be any longer than a few days of testing before I pick up my diploma?

I realize when I say that, there will be an inevitable need for hands on experience to prove my ability, but I just think we’ve emphasized the need for a classroom far too much, to the point where it is now a detriment to a quality education.


40 posted on 03/18/2013 11:03:51 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I was raised by my Depression-Era grandparents. I believe every word of that.

Growing up, my stocking contained an apple, an orange, a banana, and some pecans or walnuts on Christmas morning. It was a Depression-Era tradition that my grandparents passed on to me. During the Depression, Christmas was the only day they had fresh fruit and nuts. My first Christmas with my in-laws was the first time I experienced “stocking-stuffer” gifts. Frankly, I prefer the fruit and nuts. Heh.


41 posted on 03/18/2013 11:08:39 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

It is rampant on both sides and yes, it is a societal problem.
There is a distinct lack of respect in the world nowadays for tradition.

Then everyone is amazed when individual and relationships become confused.

Take the modern environment for example.
Liberal women remove the man from the family structure, they DEMAND that they raise the boys.
They teach them not to compete, they teach them to love gays, and they are shocked they cannot find a MAN to rock their world.


42 posted on 03/18/2013 11:10:09 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: mylife

I found her whiny also. :)


43 posted on 03/18/2013 11:10:46 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

An orange and some nuts.


44 posted on 03/18/2013 11:11:05 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Free Vulcan

In how to be a tomboy? Heh.


45 posted on 03/18/2013 11:12:02 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: Jonty30

Degrees that one can secure through testing out alone
http://www.degreeinfo.com/general-distance-learning-discussions/30319-degrees-one-can-secure-through-testing-out-alone.html

Degree Completion Programs for Online Bachelor Degrees - Non-Traditional Options http://adulted.about.com/od/programprofiles/ss/degreecompletionhub.htm

Thomas Edison State College - New Jersey’s only college exclusively for adults.
http://www.tesc.edu/degree/?source=CCCIYHOO&rfi=info&_vsrefdom=paidsearch&utm_source=msn&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=TESC_Branded


46 posted on 03/18/2013 11:12:22 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: mylife

they really just want an apparatus to climb onto for a little while.


47 posted on 03/18/2013 11:12:46 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

One thing is for sure, as long as there are men and women there will be troubles LOL


48 posted on 03/18/2013 11:13:06 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: mylife
Financial independence at 20? Only a certifiable prodigy has financial independence at 20 these days. Many people can get somewhat on their feet at that point but they are still dirt poor and looking for financial stabilization.
49 posted on 03/18/2013 11:14:17 PM PDT by Wanderer99
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To: BuckeyeTexan

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/jokes/read/80502688/


50 posted on 03/18/2013 11:14:57 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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