Skip to comments.Modern Manliness and the Perpetual State of Low Expectations
Posted on 03/18/2013 9:51:01 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Writing in the Wall Street Journal, Kay Hymowitz posits the following conclusion regarding the current culture of masculinity in the United States:
Not so long ago, the average American man in his 20s had achieved most of the milestones of adulthood: a high-school diploma, financial independence, marriage and children. Today, most men in their 20s hang out in a novel sort of limbo, a hybrid state of semi-hormonal adolescence and responsible self-reliance. This pre-adulthood has much to recommend it, especially for the college-educated. But its time to state what has become obvious to legions of frustrated young women: It doesnt bring out the best in men.
As someone who is personally putting his twenties behind him, finally finding a certain degree of success in the line of work Ive been struggling to break into for half a decade and happily occupied in a serious relationship, let me be the first to say that Hymowitz is categorically correct in her summation of the situation.
Painfully so, in fact. This one hits a little too close to home.....
(Excerpt) Read more at acculturated.com ...
Financial independence at 20?
I would suggest that a major reason Men Are no longer men is because Women will not allow it.
They what you to be steadfast, but spontaneous, tough, but sensitive, a rock and a willow.
Fix the car and be able to bake a cherry pie.
Of course 20 something women have long let go of notions of ponies and princes.
if that were true they wouldn’t be watching pride and prejudice, and downton abbey and all that stuff.
It’s been done, but not much lately. My father worked as a “hired man” for another farm family many miles away from home when he was 14. For fifty cents a day and room & board and that helped keep his family from starving to death. These kids have no idea what rough is.
At 20, boys today could be more responsible. But assuredly, by the time you are 24 or 25, you need to have that full time job and stop sponging off of the parents or the government.
I would hardly call that financial independence.
No offense to your father, or any responsible man that pays his way, and that of his family.
Women are next to impossible nowadays.
They want instant gratification at every turn.
I was paying rent to the Parents the moment I turned 18 LOL
I don’t want a cherry-pie-baking sissy. Any man of mine better be a man, dammit.
I don't think it is the occasional help from family that is referred to here, it's the fact that it is complete support from family for so many boys into their 30s.
I think KAY S. HYMOWITZ never grew up.
oh everything is the woman’s fault always, that is so myopic. If it isn’t your mom’s fault it is your girlfriend’s fault. Grow up
I find that Cabela's is able to satisfy that need when it arises. ;p
I think you are conflating "financial independence" with "independently wealthy".
Financial independence means that you can pay for yourself and no one is supporting you.
When I say financial independence I mean, not having to worry about work or the next meal.
Of course I am generalizing, just as this article generalizes.
I am merely pointing out that the article lays it all at the feet of men.
I know a lot of women that refuse to cook.
well today’s men are pretty unreliable and no one thinks it is their job to protect anyone, they are all wanting to take advantage, get over, be in love with themselves, get rich
A lot of it just simply has to do with the fact that the price of attaining adulthood has shot out of sight.
It used to be that a young man could get an entry level position job, straight out of high school, and work himself upwards and get the education and training along the way. Now, businesses demand a university diploma before they will even look at a resume and a master’s devree before they will consider you for a well-paying job. Consequently, even if a person has the drive and ambition to get that Master’s degree, straight out of high school, and attains it at about 23 years of ago, that person is starting out $100 grand in debt, or more. He now will have to spend the next 7 years, minimally, paying it off without being able to achieve any of the other adult goals. So this person will be about 30 years of age before he can really start to move ahead.
It's man against man in this world, and women are mere proxies. Open your eyes. ( And don't tell my wife I said that! )
No, but really ...
There is a reciprocal to that, that is rampant in society.
Somewhat poor phrasing on the author's part. I think what he meant was, financial self-reliance, which is what most American men in their twenties achieved with relative ease 40 years ago.
I got my first 'real' job at 22, and never looked back. Within eighteen months, I'd bought two brand new cars and had furnished a very respectable rental house for my young wife and our baby.
That was in 1975.
Today, my 32 year old son is struggling to save enough to move his young wife and kid out of her mother's apartment. They've been there for two years.
Quite you fool! /s
Yes, self reliance is how I would have stated it.
yeah well, I for one, have cooked dinner every night for the past 23 years and sacrifice for my kids. I expect the man to provide and not whine.
I say get the Associates if you are a hard charger.
Get in the door first, establish yourself and continue with your education as needed.
Get the company to pay for it if you can.
I note the only time you mentioned hubby was you expect him not to whine.
He expects the same.
No disrespect intended.
My dear wife of seventeen years is just like you, and yes, I do the providing, and don't whine.
Hard Work U (No tuition)
The G.I. Bill
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Me too. And it’s a sad result of feminism. Obviously, I am decidedly a tomboy. I like fast cars, guns, sports, and power tools, but I also understand how important my role as a wife and mother is to my family. So I cook, clean, and kiss scraped knees too. Any woman who refuses to cook for her loved ones is a selfish b*tch.
If your man provides for you and your children, he’s entitled to whine occasionally.
I just found Ms Kay Hymowitz a bit whiny.
It takes two to tango.
You need to teach classes. :-D
but the whole attitude of ungratefulness permeates the entire culture.
Ozark U should be how it’s done.
I also believe that a way should exist for somebody, who,is willing to self-study, to qualify themselves. If I personally find a particular subject fascinating enough that I am constantly reading up on it and solving problems in my chosen area of expertise and I can pass any test you want to give me, why should my particular process be any longer than a few days of testing before I pick up my diploma?
I realize when I say that, there will be an inevitable need for hands on experience to prove my ability, but I just think we’ve emphasized the need for a classroom far too much, to the point where it is now a detriment to a quality education.
I was raised by my Depression-Era grandparents. I believe every word of that.
Growing up, my stocking contained an apple, an orange, a banana, and some pecans or walnuts on Christmas morning. It was a Depression-Era tradition that my grandparents passed on to me. During the Depression, Christmas was the only day they had fresh fruit and nuts. My first Christmas with my in-laws was the first time I experienced “stocking-stuffer” gifts. Frankly, I prefer the fruit and nuts. Heh.
It is rampant on both sides and yes, it is a societal problem.
There is a distinct lack of respect in the world nowadays for tradition.
Then everyone is amazed when individual and relationships become confused.
Take the modern environment for example.
Liberal women remove the man from the family structure, they DEMAND that they raise the boys.
They teach them not to compete, they teach them to love gays, and they are shocked they cannot find a MAN to rock their world.
I found her whiny also. :)
An orange and some nuts.
In how to be a tomboy? Heh.
Degrees that one can secure through testing out alone
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they really just want an apparatus to climb onto for a little while.
One thing is for sure, as long as there are men and women there will be troubles LOL