Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

China and North Korea: General MacArthur is Vindicated
Amerisrael ^

Posted on 03/31/2013 8:00:51 AM PDT by Amerisraelhere

China-flag_2177385b

And President Truman has been proven wrong.

The great and honorable legacy of President Truman is the United States being the first nation to officially recognize the re-establishment of the State of Israel.

But with regard to his handling of the illegal Chinese military involvement and attack against U.S. and allied troops in Korea, Truman was flat out wrong.

The following is from the fourth chapter entiltled "Korea" in the book written by General Douglas MacArthur- "Revitalizing A Nation":

["While I was not consulted prior to the President's decision to intervene in support of the Republic of Korea, that decision, from a military standpoint, proved a sound one, as we hurled back the invader and decimated his forces.

We defeated the Northern Korean armies. Our victory was complete and our objectives within reach when Red China intervened with numerically superior ground forces.

This created a new war and an entirely new situation--a situation not contemplated when our forces were committed against the North Korean invaders--a situation which called for new decisions in the diplomatic sphere to permit the realistic adjustment of military strategy.

While no man in his right mind would advocate sending our ground forces into continental China and such was never given a thought, the new situation did urgently demand a drastic revision of strategic planning if our political aim was to defeat this new enemy as we had defeated the old."]

"...the new situation did urgently demand a drastic revision of strategic planning if our political aim was to defeat this new enemy as we had defeated the old."

MacArthur's proposed "drastic revision of strategic planning":

["Apart from the military need as I saw it to neutralize the sanctuary protection given the enemy north of the Yalu, I felt that military necessity in the conduct of the war made mandatory--

  1. The intensification of our economic blockade against China;
  2. The imposition of a naval blockade against the China coast;
  3. Removal of restrictions on air reconnaissance of China's coastal areas and of Manchuria;
  4. Removal of restrictions on the forces of the Republic of China on Formosa [Taiwan] with logictical support to contribute to their effective operations against the common enemy.

For entertaining these views, all professionally designed to support our forces committed to Korea and bring hostilities to an end with the least possible delay, and at a saving of countless American and Allied lives, I have been severely criticized in lay circles, principally abroad, despite my understanding that from a military standpoint the above views have been fully shared in past by practically every military leader concerned with the Korean campaign, including our own Joint Chiefs of Staff."]

"For entertaining these views,...I have been severely criticized..."

How Washington responded to MacArthur's proposed new strategy to deal with a drastic situation:

["I called for reinforcements, but was informed reinforcements were not available.I made clear that if not permitted to destroy the enemy build-up north of the Yalu; if not permitted to utilized the friendly Chinese forces of some 600,000 men on Formosa; if not permitted to blockade the China coast to prevent the Chinese Reds from getting succor from without; and if there were to be no hope of major reinforcements, the position of the command from the military standpoint forbade victory."]

["The tradgedy is that since the advent of the war with Red China there has been no definition of the political policy which would provide a solution for the new problems thereby created. 

This has resulted in a policy vacum hertofore unknown to war"]

Concerning the criticism from Truman that Big Mac's proposed new revised strategy would result in WWIII involving the Soviet Union, MacArthur wrote:

["The reason given for such a course has little validity. It has been argued in justification and seemingly to soothe the public concern that the application of conventional war measures against our enemy might provoke the Soviet into launching the Third World War,

Yet, since the end of the Second World War, without committing a single soldier to battle, the Soviet, aided by our own political blunders, has gained a dominion over territory and peoples without parallel in all of history--a dominion which it will take years for it to assimilate and administer.

What then would be its purpose in provoking a war of most doubtful result to the Communist cause? I have strong doubt that the start of a major war anywhere enters the Soviet plans at this stage"]

And here's the kicker:

["There are some who for varying reasons would appease Red China.

They are blind to history's clear lesson. For history teaches with unmistakable emphasis that appeasement but begets new and bloodier war.

It points to no single instance where the end has justified the means--where appeasement has led us to more than a sham peace. Like blackmail, it lays the basis for new and sucessively greater demands, until, as in blackmail, violence beomes the only alternative.

"...it lays the basis for new and sucessively greater demands,...like blackmail..."

["All men of good conscience earnestly seek peace. The method alone is in issue. Some, with me, would acheive peace through a prompt and decisive victory at a saving of human life., others through appeasement and compromise of moral principal, with less regard for human life.

The one course follows our great American tradition, the other but can lead to unending slaughter and our country's moral debasement."]

We would not be experiencing the current danger and problems with North Korea and China today if Big Mac had been listened to.







TOPICS: Government; History; Military/Veterans; Politics
KEYWORDS: china; korea; macarthur; russia; truman

1 posted on 03/31/2013 8:00:51 AM PDT by Amerisraelhere
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Amerisraelhere

Thank you for the well-chosen excerpts of MacArthur’s work as an explanation for the pickle we are in at this time.


2 posted on 03/31/2013 8:04:25 AM PDT by TEXOKIE (We must surrender only to our Holy God and never to the evil that has befallen us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Amerisraelhere

For some reason MacArthur didn’t think there were 300,000 Chinese military on the border of North Korea before they invaded.


3 posted on 03/31/2013 8:09:50 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (I’m not a Republican, I’m a conservative! Pubbies haven't been conservative since before T.R.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Amerisraelhere

It would have been better if he would have been given the authority to nuke those 300,000 Chinese as they came pouring over the border. This more than likely would have collapsed Mao’s new Chi-Com government and allowed us to re-install Chang Kai-shek.


4 posted on 03/31/2013 8:13:06 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (I’m not a Republican, I’m a conservative! Pubbies haven't been conservative since before T.R.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Amerisraelhere

Those same principles apply to dealing with the left.


5 posted on 03/31/2013 8:13:46 AM PDT by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Amerisraelhere
Judging MacArthur is a complex business. I will say this: The USA used to fight wars to win. We did whatever it took, and if the other side suffered, it was just evidence that messing with the USA was a bad idea. MacArthur wanted to win in Korea, and if that meant taking on China and/or using nukes, then he was ready and willing. The politicians (Truman) decided that in the name of political expediency, perhaps a lighter touch would be desirable.

Haven't really won a war since.

6 posted on 03/31/2013 8:13:50 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The ballot box is a sham. Nothing will change until after the war.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TEXOKIE

Patton wanted Russia and MacArthur wanted China. Let’s not forget that the American people were tired of war. We may have had nukes but what’s a million Chinese deaths other than millions more available? Didn’t matter to them. We were in a unique position after WWII and we didn’t take advantage. Hindsight will always be 20-20. Even our Rat friends second guessed 41 for not taking out Saddam the first time only AFTER arguing against the mission.


7 posted on 03/31/2013 8:18:29 AM PDT by DIRTYSECRET
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Amerisraelhere

“But with regard to his handling of the illegal Chinese military involvement and attack against U.S. and allied troops in Korea, Truman was flat out wrong.”

I have only one problem with the statement quoted above, and that is with just one word in it - the term “illegal”. That is only acceptable if one accepts the United Nations as a binding “legal” authority, which in the first place I do not and in the second place China was not a member at the time.


8 posted on 03/31/2013 8:20:17 AM PDT by Wuli
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Amerisraelhere

As I recall from those days of listening to the daily bickering about the size and shape of the table to conduct peace treaty meetings on, McA was fired because he proposed, in lieu of the reasons stated in his book, that the US lay down a miles wide corridor of Cobalt 60.


9 posted on 03/31/2013 8:27:50 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Amerisraelhere
Well, if China had successfully occupied the entire Korean peninsula (which they do still consider their territory, historically) all of it today might look more like Shanghai or Shenzhen than Pyongyang. There isn't a vast substantive difference between the governments of China and South Korea, today. The Kims would never have maintained the rule by cult of personality they have today under the oversight of Beijing. By "winning", we liberated Seoul but trapped Pyongyang in a 1953 time warp.

On the other hand, if China had taken the Koreas, they would surely have started much more trouble with Japan in the 50's and 60's.

Sometimes history unfolds in strange ways. Churchill warned about wars having grave and unforeseeable consequences.

10 posted on 03/31/2013 8:31:00 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DIRTYSECRET; Amerisraelhere

Good points. I’m just seeking to learn the lessons of history.

I appreciated the explanation set out in the above article...as I appreciate your placing them in context.


11 posted on 03/31/2013 8:46:36 AM PDT by TEXOKIE (We must surrender only to our Holy God and never to the evil that has befallen us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Jack Hydrazine

Our present situation proves that killing communists was always the right thing to do.Truman was a pussy,he should have given MacArthur permission to do what needed to be done.


12 posted on 03/31/2013 8:54:21 AM PDT by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Amerisraelhere

Patton had the better idea.


13 posted on 03/31/2013 9:03:16 AM PDT by bmwcyle (People who do not study history are destine to believe really ignorant statements.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Amerisraelhere

yeah he probably was


14 posted on 03/31/2013 9:05:51 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Amerisraelhere

truman was an idiot


15 posted on 03/31/2013 9:07:57 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jack Hydrazine
MacArthur didn't want there to be 300,000 Chinese troops on the Yalu. Marine and ROK units in northeast Korea were reporting captures/defections of Chinese troops from over 20 divisions if memory serves. But X Corp commander Ned Almond USA - racist, incompetent suck-up that he was, knew that MacArthur didn't want there to be Chinese troops in Korea and either didn't forward these details to Tokyo or Sutherland, who also knew that MacArthur didn't want there to be a massive Chinese army about to attack him, dismissed the reports he received as being a few Chinese "volunteers" serving in the DPRK army.
16 posted on 03/31/2013 9:15:53 AM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF (Because 2 terms with Jerry Brown as Governor was all I could take.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Farmer Dean

When Truman was threatening to use nukes in Korea he suddenly backed off. I watched a clip on GoogTube of a press conference he had about this and what I saw on his face was pure fear. I’ve tried finding it again but have been unable.

I don’t know if the Ruskies threatened to get involved or what but what ever was happening behind the scenes scared him pretty bad.


17 posted on 03/31/2013 9:21:39 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (I’m not a Republican, I’m a conservative! Pubbies haven't been conservative since before T.R.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: yldstrk

If Truman had email back in the day I would have sent him this.

http://youareanidiot.org/


18 posted on 03/31/2013 9:25:11 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (I’m not a Republican, I’m a conservative! Pubbies haven't been conservative since before T.R.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: yldstrk
Before the Korean War Truman appointed Louis A. Johnson, a fellow former national guard officer with an open contempt for the regular army, as his secretary of defense. Together they "cut the fat" out of the defense budget. Among the "fat" trimmed was bazooka ammunition and recoil oil for main tank guns. The first troops deployed to Korea were armed with the 2.36" bazooka, not real useful against a T38 in the best of cases, supplied with 6 rounds per weapon. The first Chaffee light tanks to reach Korea fired one round each - after which their turrets were knocked out of alignment by the recoil and their guns were knocked off their mounts.

Truman should have been impeached.

19 posted on 03/31/2013 9:28:15 AM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF (Because 2 terms with Jerry Brown as Governor was all I could take.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Jack Hydrazine

only do that to people you hate. you gave em a migraine with that


20 posted on 03/31/2013 9:30:42 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: InABunkerUnderSF

I totally agree, although I still commend him for bombing Japan


21 posted on 03/31/2013 9:32:27 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: All

22 posted on 03/31/2013 10:19:58 AM PDT by Amerisraelhere
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jack Hydrazine

Comintern.... in this time frame the Soviets and the Red Chinee were buddies. Managed by Stalin. Therefore the compromise of intel on the chinee horde probably was accomplished simply, through the perfumed coterie of army intel pukes who were Macarthur’s “court jesters”. Meanwhile the ground intel advance people knew the chinee were over the yalu, lots of them and coming.
Don’t forget Mac was willing to stop them with nukes since they were after all fodder for the Soviets. But the geniuses with loaded diapers at State were worried this would “bring in” the sovs. The sovs were already “in” there, with 26K troops post WWII, in yet another proxy war of their expansion. So one could say the continuation of the penetration by the Soviets of the FDR admin into the Truman haberdashery closet was quite effective. The red scare and the pussy in the white house. Appeasement has always lead to needless death of warriors. And politicians always lie. Never discount McCarthur’s emperor status at that point. He Was seriously right about Indochina- never get in a land war there (so, of course we did despite Eisenhower warning of the mil/indust complex-—sound familiar?)

Sino-Soviet split happened later with a sino-soviet border war that has been largely overlooked.

Parenthetically WEB Griffin has his character McCoy in the thick of this with some interesting plausibilities of the time and the nascent OSS/CIA vs. Army intel.

But, uh it’s OK we have John Kerry on the case... a comintern operative puke gigolo. A cast of characters and we are in bad hands.... again.


23 posted on 03/31/2013 10:24:13 AM PDT by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Amerisraelhere
In such times we need hard men running things.

24 posted on 03/31/2013 10:24:23 AM PDT by Bobalu (It is not obama we are fighting, it is the media.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InABunkerUnderSF

Almond’s “Don’t let a bunch of Chinese laundrymen push you around” comment to Col Faith is certainly proof enough for me that he knew. However, the bigger question is what stopped Walton Walker from reporting (or being heard) on the real situation on the western, 8th Army side. The 8th Cav got badly beat up by Chinese forces at Unsan nearly a month before the Chinese general offensive and 5th Cav was prevented by Chinese forces from relieving them. Yet, weeks later, the plan was put in motion to “advance to contact” ...


25 posted on 03/31/2013 10:33:40 AM PDT by Vesparado (The American people know what they want and they deserve to get it good and hard --- HL Mencken)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Bobalu

And now we have useful idiot Dempsey in charge of the military, a Muslim in charge of the CIA, and a traitorous, lying cabal running the Whitehouse. Meanwhile, the Chinese have so thoroughly hacked into our infrastructure that they could shut down areas of our electric grid, pipelines and communications. Their proxy, North Korea, is becoming increasingly bellicose, and the Chinese aren’t doing a thing about an increasingly dangerous situation. They’ve recently murdered US citizens working abroad, attacked Vietnamese fisherman, and they’ve threatened Japan’s Self Defense Forces. Frankly, this all makes me a bit nervous, to say the least, and all we can talk about as a nation are gay marriage and gun control.


26 posted on 03/31/2013 10:46:35 AM PDT by binreadin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Amerisraelhere

Patton, McCarthy, MacArthur, Churchill.......all great men,with vision, vindicated.


27 posted on 03/31/2013 10:57:04 AM PDT by kenmcg (scapegoat)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Amerisraelhere

MacArthur was probably the worst general we ever had. He blew the defense of the Philippines. He got a medal of honor for leaving everyone else to suffer the Bataan death march. His campaigns in the pacific were largely designed to give him a role for political reasons. The island hopping campaign could have easily succeeded without any of his land campaigns. Without any resupply due to the USN perfection of the Herman style of submarine warfare, New Guinea, Borneo, the Philippines, all would have been unable to strike out and interfere. They could have barely avoided starvation.
The Philippines campaign was mostly conducted because he said ‘i shall return’.
He also gets the credit for the landing at Inchon, as though the USN and USMC had never heard of amphibious warfare.
And while Inchon was fine, he never gets any credit for the defeats down to Pusan.
He did a moderately ok job on occupation duty, because he could be an ersatz monarch.
And last,, everybody was telling him the Chinese were massing and he ignored it all.
He cost uncountable US soldier lives thru his incompetence. He likely prolonged WWII and Korea.


28 posted on 03/31/2013 11:22:24 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DIRTYSECRET

We could have defeated the red Chinese and North Koreans , but Patton would have gotten thrown off the continent by the red Army ( unless we nuked them)


29 posted on 03/31/2013 11:37:04 AM PDT by hecht (america 9/11, Israel 24/7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Bobalu

Linbacker2 proved leMay correct. And if watergate hadn’t destroyed Nixon , south Vietnam would still exist


30 posted on 03/31/2013 12:14:29 PM PDT by hecht (america 9/11, Israel 24/7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Amerisraelhere

The Chinese had spies in the White House who told them in advance Truman would not use nuclear weapons. Had Truman been the other way the Chinese would not have invaded in the first place.


31 posted on 03/31/2013 3:07:03 PM PDT by Nateman (If liberals are not screaming you are doing it wrong!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson