Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Freeman Dyson speaks out about climate science, and fudge
Watts Up With That ^ | April 5, 2013 | Paul Mulshine

Posted on 04/05/2013 10:12:35 PM PDT by Rocky

Freeman Dyson is a physicist who has been teaching at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton since Albert Einstein was there. When Einstein died in 1955, there was an opening for the title of “most brilliant physicist on the planet.” Dyson has filled it.

So when the global-warming movement came along, a lot of people wondered why he didn’t come along with it. The reason he’s a skeptic is simple, the 89-year-old Dyson said when I phoned him.

“I think any good scientist ought to be a skeptic,” Dyson said.

------------------------------------------------------

Dyson said his skepticism about those computer models was borne out by recent reports of a study by Ed Hawkins of the University of Reading in Great Britain that showed global temperatures were flat between 2000 and 2010 — even though we humans poured record amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere during that decade.

That was vindication for a man who was termed “a civil heretic” in a New York Times Magazine article on his contrarian views. Dyson embraces that label, with its implication that what he opposes is a religious movement. So does his fellow Princeton physicist and fellow skeptic, William Happer.

“There are people who just need a cause that’s bigger than themselves,” said Happer. “Then they can feel virtuous and say other people are not virtuous.”

(Excerpt) Read more at wattsupwiththat.com ...


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: alberteinstein; climate; climatechange; edhawkins; freemandyson; globalwarming; princeton; science; skeptic
The article mentions that an Australian professor suggested that there be a death penalty for global warming skeptics.

Dyson says CO2 has been beneficial to plant growth.

1 posted on 04/05/2013 10:12:35 PM PDT by Rocky
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Rocky

Dyson is considered the best physicist without a Nobel Prize, or a Ph.D. Interesting distinction.


2 posted on 04/05/2013 10:40:44 PM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (What word begins with "O" and ends in economic collapse?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rocky
When Einstein died in 1955, there was an opening for the title of “most brilliant physicist on the planet.” Dyson has filled it. So when the global-warming movement came along, a lot of people wondered why he didn’t come along with it.

Uh, Paul? Did you forget about your first two sentences when you write the third? Seems like asked and answered to me.

3 posted on 04/05/2013 10:49:07 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rocky

“Dyson says CO2 has been beneficial to plant growth.”

Of course. CO2 is plant food, and they can’t get enough of it. If you increase the amount of CO2 they have access to, plants grow faster, and in growing, extract more CO2 from their environment to be stored in their cells. So, it’s a feedback loop that is one of the things that prevents a “runaway” greenhouse effect from happening on Earth.

Another feedback loop is the oceans. If the temperature were to rise enough for the glaciers to melt and raise the sea level, it would increase the volume and temperature of the oceans, both of which are factors that would increase the amount of CO2 that would dissolve in the oceans, and be taken out of the atmosphere.


4 posted on 04/05/2013 10:49:37 PM PDT by Boogieman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Boogieman
Of course. CO2 is plant food, and they can’t get enough of it.

I thought Brawndo's got Electrolytes, it's what plants crave.

5 posted on 04/05/2013 10:51:09 PM PDT by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Rocky

Way back in the 1960’s, Norman Augustine famously said that any computer model that cannot be explained on the back of an envelope is worse than useless, it’s dangerous.

Events have proven him correct.


6 posted on 04/05/2013 11:02:12 PM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (What word begins with "O" and ends in economic collapse?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rocky
There is a nice short interview with Dyson at the link. He's pretty sharp for 89. He discusses how the basic science of CO2 flux in and out of vegetation has been ignored while the big money went to computer modeling.

I wish Dyson's friend and colleague Richard Feynman was still around to back him up.

7 posted on 04/05/2013 11:06:06 PM PDT by TChad (Call them Oppressives, not Progressives.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TChad

Feynman was great.


8 posted on 04/05/2013 11:38:00 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator

Nice, I love obscure movie quotes.


9 posted on 04/06/2013 12:22:00 AM PDT by dsrtsage (One half of all people have below average IQ. In the US the number is 54%)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Lonesome in Massachussets
Dyson is considered the best physicist without a Nobel Prize, or a Ph.D.

Looks like he skipped a grade or two.

From the article:

When Einstein died in 1955, there was an opening for the title of “most brilliant physicist on the planet.” Dyson has filled it.

BTW, he has a daughter, Esther, who is a Silicon Valley VC and former gf of Mr. Bill.

10 posted on 04/06/2013 12:33:58 AM PDT by cynwoody
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Boogieman

I agree with everything you wrote with the following caveat: the oceans may be critical to the absorption of CO2 regardless of the ocean levels, in particular the phytoplankton - the single-cell plants that provide the foundation of the ocean food chain. If the rise in ocean temperatures or fall in salinity due to glacial melting starts to kill off the phytoplankton, a big part of the planet’s ability to absorb CO2 goes away. On the other hand, if the rise in temperatures promotes growth in the phytoplankton population, happy days are here again. Who knows?


11 posted on 04/06/2013 12:42:19 AM PDT by T. Rustin Noone (the angel wanna wear my red shoes......)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Still Thinking

Surely you’re joking Mr. Feynman is one of my favorite books


12 posted on 04/06/2013 1:22:39 AM PDT by bigtoona
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Rocky

Man has the largest artificial structure ever conceived NAMED after him!!! He deserves respect!

13 posted on 04/06/2013 2:21:36 AM PDT by GraceG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Boogieman
So, it’s a feedback loop that is one of the things that prevents a “runaway” greenhouse effect from happening on Earth. Another feedback loop is the oceans.

Not to be pedantic, but it's what they call a "reverse feedback loop."

Regards,

14 posted on 04/06/2013 2:25:47 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Rocky
“There are people who just need a cause that’s bigger than themselves,” said Happer. “Then they can feel virtuous and say other people are not virtuous.”

Perfect description of the entire Left-Liberal movement.

15 posted on 04/06/2013 3:29:47 AM PDT by Regulator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GraceG

“Can you imagine the Engineering just to design such a structure?!”


16 posted on 04/06/2013 4:51:56 AM PDT by mikrofon (RIP, Scotty)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Boogieman

Solubility of gasses in water generally decreases with increasing temperatures, which is why bubbles form in pots of water being boiled, that aren’t boiling yet. (Those are the air coming out of solution.) There are some exceptions but I don’t think CO2 is one of them. That said, I am not an alarmist.


17 posted on 04/06/2013 5:29:42 AM PDT by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: mikrofon
“Can you imagine the Engineering just to design such a structure?!”

Assuming that it were large enough to hold Mercury, Venus and Earth (and the Moon), I'd think it'd require the raw materials found in all the outer planets and the asteroid belt, and then some. Building a Ringworld would probably be easier.

Actually, for anyone interested in the subject, there was a ST:TNG novel called "The Dyson Sphere", which was okay reading, but had an appendix, which was about 1/4 or 1/3 of the book about the science of such a thing. (I have to admit that I didn't read too much of that either because it was a little dry or little over my head or both.)

18 posted on 04/06/2013 6:14:43 AM PDT by Tanniker Smith (Rome didn't fall in a day, either.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: dsrtsage

“The closer you get to Canada, the more things there are that’ll eat your horse”


19 posted on 04/06/2013 7:19:20 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: TChad

I’ve been saying for years that we have really needed Feynman around to eviscerate the AGW Warmist crowd.


20 posted on 04/06/2013 7:26:32 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: coloradan

Hmm, you are right. I was basing my assessment off the fact that solubility of solids, like sugar, for example, increases. Thanks for pointing that out.

I got curious as to why the difference exists, and it seems to be due to the fact that gases have more entropy than solids.


21 posted on 04/06/2013 9:00:37 AM PDT by Boogieman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: alexander_busek

True, if it was a normal feedback loop, it would do the opposite, and we’d all be very toasty right now :)


22 posted on 04/06/2013 9:02:27 AM PDT by Boogieman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; ...

Thanks Rocky.


23 posted on 04/06/2013 9:17:56 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Rocky; Old Sarge; sickoflibs; Liz; LucyT
That was vindication for a man who was termed “a civil heretic” in a New York Times Magazine article on his contrarian views. Dyson embraces that label, with its implication that what he opposes is a religious movement. So does his fellow Princeton physicist and fellow skeptic, William Happer. “There are people who just need a cause that’s bigger than themselves,” said Happer. “Then they can feel virtuous and say other people are not virtuous.”

The mindless mob defined... beautiful...

24 posted on 04/06/2013 9:21:12 AM PDT by GOPJ (New AP term for Illegal Aliens IS Undocumented Democrats.... Jay Leno)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: alexander_busek
Not to be pedantic, but it's what they call a "reverse feedback loop."

Silly me, forty years of engineering we call them "negative feedback" loops. When you write out the differential equations defining a servo loop, the feedback term should be negative if the loop is to be stable.

Positive feedback can be at best "metastable", balance a pencil on it's point, it will stand straight up until the slightest disturbance causes it's center of gravity to move slightly out of vertical alignment with the contact point. This applies a small torque increasing the magnitude of the disturbance which continues to increase as the pencil falls over. (positive feedback)

Negative feedback may be illustrated by dropping a marble into a spherical bowl. The marble will roll "downhill" into the bottom of the bowl. It will probably over shoot and roll past the bottom and up the side some but then it reverses course and rolls back down until it finally comes to a stop at the lowest point. This oscillation about the rest position is typical of a negative feedback system w/o a damping term. If you tried the experiment with various liquids filling the bowl, you would find that water has little effect, light cooking oil has more of an effect, and honey will prevent the marble from overshooting the rest position completely. The viscous drag of the liquids provides a "damping" effect the will slow the marbels's travel and cause it to stop at a stable position. Critical damping is achieved when the moving marble reaches it's rest position in the least time with out overshooting. A little less damping will allow a small overshoot and a few oscillations (under damped). A little more damping will increase the time it takes for the marble to arrive at it's rest position (over damped).

Most positioning servos system are intentionally designed to be slightly under damped as the minor oscillations near setpoint improve repeatability by reducing hysteresis.

Regards,
GtG

25 posted on 04/06/2013 11:16:05 AM PDT by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: muir_redwoods

The Missouri Breaks....Nice


26 posted on 04/06/2013 5:36:04 PM PDT by dsrtsage (One half of all people have below average IQ. In the US the number is 54%)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Gandalf_The_Gray
Silly me, forty years of engineering we call them "negative feedback" loops.

You're right, of course!

Regards,

27 posted on 04/07/2013 2:42:30 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson