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Göbekli Tepe, Turkey: a new wonder of the ancient world (9,000 B.C. Neolithic site)
The London Telegraph ^ | April 23, 2013 | Jeremy Seal

Posted on 04/23/2013 10:17:25 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

"Wow," exclaims the visitor from New Zealand, a place, after all, with a human history shorter than most. For from a wooden walkway we’re gazing down at an archaeological site of giddying age. Built about 9000 BC, it’s more than twice as old as Stonehenge or the Pyramids, predating the discovery of metals, pottery or even the wheel. This is Göbekli Tepe in south-eastern Turkey, generally reckoned the most exciting and historically significant archaeological dig currently under way anywhere in the world, and there are neither queues nor tickets to get in.

Wow for a number of reasons, then, though it’s neither the access nor the staggering implications of the site’s age that has particularly impressed the man from distant Auckland. Neolithic Göbekli Tepe is also remarkably beautiful. From the partially excavated pit rise circular arrangements of huge T-shaped obelisks exquisitely carved with foxes, birds, boars and snakes or highly stylised human attributes including belts, loincloths and limbs. We’re profoundly moved by this glimpse into a radically recast prehistory, and mystified too. Even the archaeologists hard at work on this September morning can only speculate about its function, not least because the stones appear to have been deliberately buried.

“This series of sanctuaries is the oldest known monumental architecture,” explains the excavation leader and approachable on-site presence Professor Klaus Schmidt. “Maybe burial was already part of their concept from the very beginning.”(continued)

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Religion; Science
KEYWORDS: anatolia; archaeology; archeology; catalhoyuk; catalhuyuk; gbeklitepe; gobeklitepe; godsgravesglyphs; history; klausschmidt; prehistory; sanliurfa; turkey
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1 posted on 04/23/2013 10:17:25 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Sometimes I wonder if mankind had to live ‘underground’ due to something like a nearby supernova.


2 posted on 04/23/2013 10:25:07 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: UCANSEE2

Put Gobekli complex was buried on purpose ... why have such a complex arrangement of structures then cover it with sand and abandon it?


3 posted on 04/23/2013 10:43:21 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: UCANSEE2
Helen Thomas photo:  helen-thomas.jpg "That's exactly what happened! I was just a kid but ... "
4 posted on 04/23/2013 10:43:45 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: MHGinTN

Earth quake, robbers, lack of water. See any trees in the area?


5 posted on 04/23/2013 11:08:11 PM PDT by Domangart
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To: SunkenCiv

ping


6 posted on 04/23/2013 11:42:57 PM PDT by SteveH (First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.)
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To: MHGinTN

I don’t know *why* they buried it but I’m glad they did! Have you looked at photos of the carvings? They’re in pristine condition. Look like they were done last week. It’s an astounding find and most people say “gobble gobble what?” when you try to tell them about it. ;o)


7 posted on 04/23/2013 11:46:17 PM PDT by Hetty_Fauxvert (FUBO, and the useful idiots you rode in on!)
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To: Hetty_Fauxvert

I have guessed that the pillars with “T” shape were holding up roofing timbers. The carvings do not appear to have been heavily weathered the way the Sphinx was, from rain and flowing water.


8 posted on 04/24/2013 12:07:13 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: SunkenCiv

FYI


9 posted on 04/24/2013 1:59:10 AM PDT by Pollster1 ("Shall not be infringed" is unambiguous.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

June 2011 of National Georgraphic had a great coverage of this wonderful find. Here’s a link:

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/gobekli-tepe/mann-text


10 posted on 04/24/2013 2:46:08 AM PDT by Portcall24
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To: Portcall24

Sadly, the authors of that article are not too bright:

“We used to think agriculture gave rise to cities and later to writing, art, and religion. Now the world’s oldest temple suggests the urge to worship sparked civilization.”

Wouldn’t that be obvious to anyone who can think?


11 posted on 04/24/2013 4:42:30 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998

I agree. Cities have always grown up around churches and temples. I wonder if the cultivation of grain was at least partly in response to a need to feed ancient visiting pilgrims (for a price, of course).


12 posted on 04/24/2013 4:53:57 AM PDT by RadiationRomeo (Step into my mind and glimpse the madness that is me)
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To: vladimir998

That supports the view that those living today are the only smart ones that gets it and all those early beings were a bunch of “hayseeds” that actually looked to an outside source as the creator.


13 posted on 04/24/2013 5:10:43 AM PDT by Portcall24
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To: Hetty_Fauxvert

I wonder if the monoliths themselves might be remnants of some even older civilization; their hard square edges and the detail of the carvings are very sophisticated. They almost look like some sort of antediluvian highway support pillars.

The carvings are interesting to contemplate as they are not carved into the stone monoliths, but sit in relief on the surface. That required an amazing amount of carving to produce the monoliths; 12,000 years ago.


14 posted on 04/24/2013 5:14:29 AM PDT by Flick Lives (We're going to be just like the old Soviet Union, but with free cell phones!)
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To: MHGinTN
It was designed by a royal architect from the neo-cartoonical school-

When the King NutTar and his Queen Ishtar saw it after it was completed, the Queen didn`t like all the animal cartoons which she said ranked of ox bestiality and lizard fetishes.

So the King ordered it buried coz it was offensive to his Queen`s royal eyes.

He killed the neo-cartoonical architect and found another architect who was schooled in the Pre-Byzantine style which has a lotsa domes and spires and arches and loudspeakers and beards. However, the animal fetish memory was forever enshrined into the name of the new city, Ish-Dung-Bull, not far from this site,by the new royal architect who was of friend of the old dead royal architect, who was from San Francisco.

But it could not be fully suppressed and soon spread to Paris. This royal ban on erotic fetish cities is what started the Trojan War soon afterwards. Centuries later the neo-cartoonical school was re-born in Sodom and Gomnorreah.

15 posted on 04/24/2013 5:14:32 AM PDT by bunkerhill7 (("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.))
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To: bunkerhill7

So you’re sayin’ that Mighhty Mouse did not come to save the day?


16 posted on 04/24/2013 7:10:05 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
A MODERN DAY WONDER!


17 posted on 04/24/2013 7:29:38 AM PDT by Young Werther (Julius Caesar said "Quae cum ita sunt. Since these things are so.".)
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To: SteveH; Pollster1; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks SteveH and Pollster1. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


18 posted on 04/25/2013 9:05:13 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
predating the discovery of metals, pottery or even the wheel

We have firm dates on all these events?

19 posted on 04/25/2013 9:12:36 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Promotional Fee Paid for by "Ouchies" The Sharp, Prickly Toy You Bathe With!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Umm wow. I followed the link and was reading through it while watching TV. I looked up and there it was on the History Channel too.


20 posted on 04/25/2013 9:18:14 PM PDT by ElkGroveDan (My tagline is in the shop.)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

The site has no metal tools, pottery, or wheels.


21 posted on 04/25/2013 9:25:53 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I think I read they say they have only uncovered what, like 5 percent of what’s there?

No doubt there are still many amazing things to find.

With all the animal motifs and the circles, I’ve been inclined to think...

Is this Planet Earths first zoo?


22 posted on 04/25/2013 9:30:11 PM PDT by djf (Rich widows: My Bitcoin address is... 1ETDmR4GDjwmc9rUEQnfB1gAnk6WLmd3n6)
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To: djf

Do these mysterious stones mark the site of the Garden of Eden?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1157784/Do-mysterious-stones-mark-site-Garden-Eden.html#ixzz2RXeuSDEK


23 posted on 04/25/2013 9:51:13 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

No. The garden of Eden is on the bottom of the Persian Gulf.


24 posted on 04/25/2013 11:04:24 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Read “The Source” by James Michener, which traces the people of ancient Israel.

Written a few decades ago, it is nevertheless a good read about ancient civilization in the region.


25 posted on 04/25/2013 11:19:12 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: truth_seeker
Read The Walking Drum by Louis L'Amour, explains a lot about the Middle Ages.
26 posted on 04/25/2013 11:21:35 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Read The Walking Drum by Louis L'Amour, explains a lot about the Middle Ages.

I loved that book.

27 posted on 04/25/2013 11:28:24 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard

He intended to write a sequel, but never got around to it.


28 posted on 04/25/2013 11:29:19 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: SunkenCiv
The site also has no food stored there that they have found.

Perhaps it predates eating?

29 posted on 04/26/2013 4:58:20 AM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Promotional Fee Paid for by "Ouchies" The Sharp, Prickly Toy You Bathe With!)
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To: SunkenCiv; 2ndDivisionVet; Portcall24

Thank you for the ping, post, and link to the National Geographic photos.


30 posted on 04/26/2013 4:59:05 AM PDT by TheOldLady
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

11,000 years old. Wow!


31 posted on 04/26/2013 5:14:49 AM PDT by Rebelbase (1929-1950's, 20+years for full recovery. How long this time?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; SunkenCiv

"Göbekli Tepe is generally reckoned the most exciting and historically significant archaeological dig currently under way anywhere in the world - and there are neither queues nor tickets to get in"
32 posted on 04/26/2013 6:08:14 AM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I think it was an entry portal for working bioengineers among the Ancient Aliens General Operations Division.

Images of the fauna and flora they might be working with or seeing as tourists were placed strategically around the lobby like travel posters today.

And on the seventh cosmic day, the chief of the G.O.D. looked around, said, “That’s a wrap. Let’s leave it to ‘em with G.O.D.s blessing.”


33 posted on 04/26/2013 8:17:25 AM PDT by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk only to me.)
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To: vladimir998
“Now the world’s oldest temple suggests the urge to worship sparked civilization.”

Wouldn’t that be obvious to anyone who can think?

It seems obvious when one stops to think about it. People would come together to worship, and needed to be fed.

34 posted on 04/26/2013 4:59:01 PM PDT by fanfan ("If Muslim kids were asked to go to church on Sunday and take Holy Communion there would be war.")
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To: SunkenCiv

Thanks for the ping, Civ.


35 posted on 04/26/2013 4:59:42 PM PDT by fanfan ("If Muslim kids were asked to go to church on Sunday and take Holy Communion there would be war.")
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

The site has barely been touched, just this group of sculptures, so other than those who claim precognitive powers, there’s more to be found.


36 posted on 04/26/2013 6:28:02 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: fanfan

People have been eating long before this one site was constructed; there’s no telling what it was used for — someone on the thread suggested it was the first zoo, which is amusing. 8000 years ago, still in preceramic times, a group from the mainland colonized Cyprus, their origin known from their rubbish tip, where bones of the species they brought along for food were found.


37 posted on 04/26/2013 6:32:37 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: TheOldLady

My pleasure. :’)


38 posted on 04/26/2013 6:32:50 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: MHGinTN

Maybe it wasn’t — that particular claim looked insubstantial when I first read it, and I haven’t seen anything new in support.


39 posted on 04/26/2013 6:34:19 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: vladimir998; RadiationRomeo

I can’t think, and your claim doesn’t make any sense. Agriculture led to larger populations and a need to settle disputes over boundaries, water supplies, and raiding by outsiders and neighboring groups. That necessitated recordkeeping. The rise of literature followed the rise of accounting and title deeds. Agriculture brought about food surpluses, and the rise of other crafts not related to agriculture, as well as standing armies to defend territory and food and water supplies.


40 posted on 04/26/2013 6:41:09 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: SunkenCiv

“I can’t think...”

Maybe you should have stopped right there.


41 posted on 04/26/2013 7:00:04 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: SunkenCiv
The site has barely been touched,

That was kind of my point.

Who knows what we might find there.

So saying that it was "before...." when we truly have no idea when those things were discovered is rather presumptuous.

Absence of evidence should not be assumed to be evidence of absence.

42 posted on 04/26/2013 7:20:46 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Promotional Fee Paid for by "Ouchies" The Sharp, Prickly Toy You Bathe With!)
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To: SunkenCiv
From the Geographic essay:

Puzzle piled upon puzzle as the excavation continued. For reasons yet unknown, the rings at Göbekli Tepe seem to have regularly lost their power, or at least their charm. Every few decades people buried the pillars and put up new stones—a second, smaller ring, inside the first. Sometimes, later, they installed a third. Then the whole assemblage would be filled in with debris, and an entirely new circle created nearby. The site may have been built, filled in, and built again for centuries.

43 posted on 04/26/2013 7:21:41 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I wonder if Fred Flintstone lived there. Maybe we have discovered Bedrock.


44 posted on 04/26/2013 7:31:46 PM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

The use of the materials names (not food, that was merely a nonsequitur) varied in date from place to place, but isn’t known to be used that early.


45 posted on 04/26/2013 8:00:30 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: SunkenCiv
They weren't known to be working with stone that early either.

And yet not only were they working with stone but they were working with big stones.

They thought that metal was first worked in the middle east around 4200 BC. They they found Varna. And found worked metal from 4600 BC and in Europe.

And now they found a copper chisel that is from 5500BC in Prokuplje Serbia.

The more we find the more the dates keep getting pushed back.

Saying "before we know metal was used" is correct. Saying "before metal was used" is not.

46 posted on 04/26/2013 8:18:28 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Promotional Fee Paid for by "Ouchies" The Sharp, Prickly Toy You Bathe With!)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

People have worked with stone for 100s of 1000s of years, including some possible small images of animals and such; one apparent stylized statue of a human dates back 400K years. Stone was used to work stone at this site. But it appears you’re really just objecting to the writing in the article.


47 posted on 04/26/2013 8:39:37 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: UCANSEE2; SunkenCiv

For underground dwellings check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derinkuyu_Underground_City


48 posted on 04/27/2013 3:09:16 AM PDT by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: SunkenCiv
Yes, that is exactly what I am objecting to and I should have said building with stone rather then working with stone.

I object to things stated as fact rather then stated as opinion or quantified with the statement that with our current level of knowledge this is what we believe.

And yes I understand that this was written by a travel writer rather then a scientist but my objection stands.

49 posted on 04/27/2013 9:14:05 AM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Promotional Fee Paid for by "Ouchies" The Sharp, Prickly Toy You Bathe With!)
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To: SunkenCiv

I think civilizations probably started because people saw the advantage of forming themselves into groups for safety.

What do you think?


50 posted on 04/27/2013 2:07:39 PM PDT by fanfan ("If Muslim kids were asked to go to church on Sunday and take Holy Communion there would be war.")
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