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To: GJones2
Bieber ~ a common enough name in Belgium ~ were you aware of that?

Ever wonder where it came from?

Here's all you need to look for ~ a noble name with the words for a military assignment in the middle, beginning or end ~ in BRETON.

For instance, a name with SA, meaning flag in Breton, might be linked to LINAS, a word meaning LINE ~ a SALINAS was the knight who held the flag on the left or right of the advancing formation of mounted knights.

Even looks Spanish doesn't it?

Look for almost any name that begins CA, CAR, KA, KER ~ all of them are Breton ~ that 'ker' has to do with a common affectation among Bretons for centuries to refer to 'house of' ~ and then whatever else their name was ~ in Celtic!

Some of the nobles adopted French surnames of course ~ as names of war, the French in those days having a reputation for brutality in combat.

All you have to do is remember that the Google.com Welsh translator does a fair job translating Breton as well ~ which will help you dig your way through Breton and French histories.

Brittany and Cornwall both got out of the country business in the 12th to 14th centuries ~ one of the reasons the English and French hog the credit.

Now, who was a Spaniard? Was it the Moslem noble whose family had lived there 500 years or the farm boy with the big horse and heavy sword from Brittany?

With Christian Spain rolled up to the North Coast (The Dead Coast) by the Moslems (7th/8th century AD), they were sitting ducks for fillubsterers from the rest of Europe ~ who arrived and set up Carvajal, Leone and Castile ~ those were the three kingdoms San Cho Noe I is credited with authorizing as he began his invasion from Cornwall ~ hey, he has a Breton name too!!! WOW! He wasn't a Spaniard 'til he got there.

The common denominator was simple ~ on one side the warriors were Christian, and other side they were Moslem. The war lasted from the 7th century to the 15th century ~ a very long war even by Irish standards, but not by Japanese standards (if you need a comparison).

Sometimes the war went one way and sometimes another. At least once other Moslem invaders came in to make a maor push-back against the Christians because the local Moslems proved too week, or too closely affiliated with the Christians to stick to the islamic rules. During other times both the area we call Morocco and Spain were part of a common culture ~ even today they have a special relationship.

(NOTE: Bieber ~ as in Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar ~ AKA El Cid!)

18 posted on 05/10/2013 6:37:48 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah; GJones2

GJones2,

When dealing with muawiyah it is always best to be somewhat skeptical. I can’t say there were no Breton fighting in Spain, but I really doubt there were many if any at all. Just an example of what I am talking about: muawiyah says there this:

“(NOTE: Bieber ~ as in Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar ~ AKA El Cid!)”

The problem is that Vivar probably has nothing to do with the Breton. If it is Celtic, it probably has everything to do with Spain’s own ancient Celtic population which pre-dated any Breton on the continent by centuries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Iberia_300BC.svg

The Celtic Vaccaei were living in the Vivar region many centuries before El Cid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccaei


20 posted on 05/10/2013 7:22:02 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: muawiyah

Thanks for the information, though I’m in no position to evaluate the accuracy of much of it. With etymological explanations especially, it’s often hard to separate fact from speculation.


26 posted on 05/11/2013 3:16:06 AM PDT by GJones2 (Spaniards not responsible for the Reconquest?)
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