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To: muawiyah


As always you resort to even stranger claims to defend your previous off base claims.

you wrote:

“Vlad, when the Moslems took over an area in their initial thrust they killed off the existing nobles and forcibly converted the peasantry to Islam. Later Jews from around the Mediterranean moved there in fairly appreciable numbers.
You already know that but for some unknown reason you want to sugar coat the Islamic invasion and conquest of Iberia.”

Okay, let’s look at your bizarre claims here:

1) “You already know that but for some unknown reason you want to sugar coat the Islamic invasion and conquest of Iberia.”

You show me EXACTLY where I have done that. Show me EXACTLY where I have EVER done that. You WILL fail because I have never done any such thing in any thread I have ever posted in in my entire life. How, in good conscience, can you just make stuff up like that? Seriously, how can you just flat out lie like that?

2) I am to infer that you are claiming that because the Muslims conquered Spain and (according to you) wiped out the nobility that that had something to do with El Cid’s real name? Seriously?

That doesn’t even work for you because anyone who knows about the Arab Muslim conquest of Spain knows that the Vivar region was under Muslim domination for a little over a century and the native Christians not only remained Christian but didn’t lose their place names in the local dialects.

“When it was over the Christians were reduced to those living North of the mountains along the coast of the Bay of Biscay.”

No. The FREE Christians lived in the mountains and foothills, but plenty of unfree Christians - still speaking their own language and learning Arabic too - remained where they were.

“They never recovered sufficiently to mount any sort of military offensive against the Muslims ~ that came from outside, from elsewhere in Europe.”

That is completely false. Pelagius, in Spanish: Pelayo, the founder of the Kingdom of Asturias was from Gallaecia (Hispania Gallaecia) and launched the Reconquista in about 722. He was a Visigoth FROM SPAIN.

“Modern Christian Spain began with Leon and Castile ~ a fairly informative but very brief brief is at ~ you did notice I didn’t refer to San Cho Noe I, but they do refer to Sancho II and Sancho III ~ they came later ~ MUCH LATER.”

All irrelevant of course as I already showed. Pelagius started the Reconquista and he was a native Spaniard.

“The Reconquista was in full sway by Sancho III. Galician chronicles demonstrate it began with arrivals from Cornwall ~ and by necessary implication, Brittany.”

The Reconquista started in the early 8th century - and was started by a native Spaniard a VISIGOTHIC prince. And I just don’t see any reason to believe your claims without some sort of documentation. You can easily search for what I posted online. Post some evidence for what you’re claiming.

24 posted on 05/10/2013 8:23:44 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998
vladimir998, now, now ~ you are buying into the ENGLISH imputed archaeological version of history ~ which is simply not the same as the GALICIAN documentary version.

Only the more primitive Germanic Angles, Saxons, Danes and rough Bavarian mountaineers imagine the people around the Bay of Biscay to have not had a history of their own.

Pelagius, even the most fawning records, is credited with having Gallitian ancestry ~ and only some credit him with having initiated the Reconquista. The Moslem records refer to him and his followers as "30 wild donkeys" ~ certainly something far short of number of folks needed to do something about the the Moslem occupation.

I have to take exception to your belief the folks in Northern Spain spoke 'Spanish' ~ that language became dominant there by the mid 1500s, but before that Galician was dominant ~ and that's a Celtic language, not a rough German tongue.

For the roots of modern Spanish you have to look to both Latin and Gallo and, of course, Ladino!

Regarding religious matters, the Moslems and Christians worked out the old 'follow the local noble' standard after several centuries of conflict ~ in the beginning they just chopped off heads. The local Arien Christians were not highly respected by the Christian knights moving in from Brittany and Cornwall ~ probably why that brand of Christianity is not known in the region today.

29 posted on 05/11/2013 4:57:56 AM PDT by muawiyah
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