Skip to comments.You Don’t Have To Like Edward Snowden
Posted on 06/23/2013 7:58:53 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Reporters have always been comfortable ignoring their sources motives. Now everybody else needs to get used to that.
Snowden welcome party
One of the most difficult features of the new news environment is that everybody gets to see the utter mess of the early hours of a breaking news story the chaos, the bad information off the scanner, the misidentifications. Those are things that used to take place inside the newsroom or, at worst, be swept away on the unrecorded broadcast airwaves.
There is now a heated debate over the moral status of Edward Snowden who fled Hong Kong for Moscow en route, reportedly, to Ecuador Sunday and over whether his decision to flee almost certain conviction and imprisonment in the United States means that his actions cant be considered civil disobedience. These seem like good questions for a philosophy class. They are terrible, boring, ones for reporters, and have more to do with the confusing new news environment than with the actual news.
Snowden is what used to be known as a source. And reporters dont, and shouldnt, spend too much time thinking about the moral status of their sources. Sources sometimes act from the best of motives a belief that readers should know something is amiss, or a simple desire to see a good story told. They also often act from motives far more straightforwardly venal than anything than has been suggested of Snowden: They want to screw someone who is in their way professionally; they want to score an ideological point by revealing a personal misdeed; they are acting on an old grudge, and serving revenge cold; they are collecting chits with the press to be cashed in later.....
(Excerpt) Read more at buzzfeed.com ...
what’s not to like?
I do not know what Snowden has or had, but anyone that screws Obozo and his band of Marxist is a hero in my book.
I don’t like False Flags and exercises of “flexibility” that distract from IRS/DOJ/Benghazi/Immigration Bill disaster, etc.
“fled Hong Kong for Moscow en route, reportedly, to Ecuador”
Ecuador has a number of U.S. expat communities.
Run Eddie run!
“Ecuador has a number of U.S. expat communities.”
All of Central America and western South America are hot spots for US expats. For info, get on the Email list for InternationalLiving.com
what maybe used to be called treason, maybe now, maybe now its a bold, courageous move....
time's a changin'..
Thanks for the recommendations. Who knows when one may need to follow the expat route.
Not a matter of “liking”. No more than liking Woodward and Bernstein when we found out what was going on in the Nixon White House. Government exists through the consent of the governed and a lot of folks are now uncertain about what we’ve been consenting to.
Soldiers are required to follow LAWFUL orders. I no more want civil servants performing illegal acts against American citizens in violation of the Constitution than I want soldiers committing murder and mayhem under the theory of “I was only following orders”.
Like Snowden said, consent of the governed is not consent if the governed are intentionally mis-informed by the governing.
“Who knows when one may need to follow the expat route.”
I started international travels in 1999, spending as much as months at a time in central Europe. I left for good in Jan. 2005.
I can not imagine ever returning to America, even for a visit.
I see The USSA as continuing on a downward spiral.
In order to survive , Snowden had to flee hurridly to a country which wouldnt turn him in order to evade arrest.
Is he a whistle-blower ?
Hell , yes !!
We were promised hope and change, along with transparency ~ instead we got beans and franks and chronic subversion of the Constitution , and government sanctioned data-mining.
Instead of Foreign Intelligence we found out that our own government was spying on us ( there ain’t nothing foreign about it !)
Snowden’s release of information upset the plutocrats (wealthy political elites) and ruined their control of information.
We found out that Micro$oft/NSA/FaceBook/Google/IRS/Government are in bed with each other, with open back doors to software.
There is nothing ethical about this adminsitration ~ it is all about AGENDA.
The Constitution has been subverted and replaced by community organizer Saul Alinsky !
The IRS discriminated against the Tea Party Conservatives to supress the Conservative vote and impact.
All that Snowden proclaimed is that our country is being taken over by a subtle coup d’etat.
Government elitists need to ALL be PRIMARIED OUT OF OFFICE !
I hate to say it but I’m considering an evac from the US as well. I just don’t trust this country anymore. Only two things stopping me: need to secure work where ever I become an expat and I would really hate to leave my guns behind. :D
>>whats not to like?
Intending to enable the Communist Chinese.
Glad to hear that you found a country with a non-corrupt government, where your Constitutional rights are not questioned.
Um, where might that be?
“need to secure work where ever I become an expat”
That can be tough, depending on where you go.
I started in Slovakia, working as a private tutor for English conversation. That was a nice life, working with individuals, and only about 20 hours per week.
I am now on SS and living in the Philippines.
Working here is pretty much out of the question.
TArcher ~:” Intending to enable the Communist Chinese.”
No ! Notifying the Chinese that they too have been compromised .
Snowden didn’t do the software - he merely reported it !
Government spying and over-reach by the Odumbo administration is the culprit !..not Snowden !
He is merely the reporter
An ‘ ad hominem ‘ arguement to shoot the messenger, not the message !
Since day one, I’ve said that it is a mistake to embrace this guy. He’s nutty.
>>Snowden didnt do the software - he merely reported it !
Who did he report it to? The Communist Chinese.
If this a$$hole was concerned about illegal orders then he should’ve went up the chain of command, to his Congressman, to his State Attorney General - etc.
Not to the Communist ENEMY.
You’ll believe anything, won’t you?
“Um, where might that be?”
See number 17.
Where I am now, I would not say that the government is not corrupt.
Other then the immigration office, you would not have any government contact.
Visiting the immigration office every two months gets old, unless you get married to a Philippine citizen. After that, you obtain a 13a visa, and never have to go to immigration again.
In Slovakia, I never saw an immigration office, nor did I report to anyone.
I won’t be surprised if he commits suicide, knowing that no one will believe that he really killed himself.
“he shouldve went up the chain of command”
Oh yea....Just how far do you think that would have gone?
Straight to the trash can.
I am not ready to judge Snowden. He could be a hero for all we know.
I believe Comrade Snowden flying to Latin America via Russia and Havana speaks for itself.
>>I am not ready to judge Snowden.
FU and the expatriated Jackwagon you rode out on.
“FU and the expatriated Jackwagon you rode out on.”
I feel your pain.
TArcher ~L: If this a$$hole was concerned about illegal orders then he shouldve went up the chain of command, to his Congressman, to his State Attorney General - etc.
Not to the Communist ENEMY.”
Excuse me !
I thought that spying on Americans was illegal ,.. or at least : “ the least untruthful statement “
That is what the Constitution would uphold.
The Constitution upholds individual rights FROM the government.
Should he have gone elswhere other than CHina , or Hong Kong ?
Hell yes.. !!
But when you are running for your life , international boundaries don’t mean too much !
Has he pi$$ed of the plutocracy ? .. Heck yeah !
But more importantly , he told us all what all the data-mining was used for , both domestic and foreign.
The problem is that the proggie got passed because it was supposed to be directed to foreign souces / NOT DOMESTIC !
NSA Oversight by Fienstein - the biggest PLUTOCRAT in the Senate ! She isn’t worth tits on a boar ! Totally useless !!
A Flameing LIBTURD ! She couldn’t find crap if it was stuck on her own nose !
And she is the over-sight on NSA ?
Right ! And you beleive in the tooth fairy ?
I said that it was an “ad hominem “ arguement..you still havne’t controverted that statement !
You are attacking the messinger ,.. and NOT the message !
I thought that spying on Americans was illegal ,.. or at least : the least untruthful statement
That was the statement by the NSA director !
That means that all that he stated was a lie !
or .. the least untruthfull statement.
Empowering Communists is more illegal - or at least more un-American.
Comrade Snowden’s LYING/CHEATING colors are further intensified by his flight path via Havana and Russia.
TArcher ~L:” I believe Comrade Snowden flying to Latin America via Russia and Havana speaks for itself.”
Where would you run ?
Especially since there is a history of “ Breitbarting “ , “arkanicideing” and Micheal Hastings being chasing ?
This adminsitration has no tolerance of dissidents ; in fact there are 10 listed enemies of the U.S. , all of who are involved in data-mineing.
would I have liked hi to go somewhere else .. heck yeah !
But I havent had to live the “Bourne Ultimatum” in order to survive ... yet ! ..yet !
How aobut you ? Have you had to run from “spooks “ ?
Ya run to whomever will accept you until you can figure where you can go !
TArcher ~: “NO SALE “
Then you continue to live in your world of complacentcy.
You have no concept of reality .. and I won’t be able convince you .
and .. I won’t try !
TArcher ~:” Empowering Communists is more illegal - or at least more un-American.”
Spying on Americans was illegal the last I knew.
Especially with a security program designed to seek out FOREIGN correspondence , not data-mineing American correspondence.
But when you have the highest law enforcemnt officer in the U.S. KNOWINLGLY offering PERJURED statements to a Federal judge,
and there is no consequence , or no accoutablility ,
Then there is NO law of the land ! ~ only chaos !
>>Spying on Americans was illegal the last I knew.
Yeah, and spying on the Commies is as American as Apple Pie — but weasels like Comrade Snowden and Bwadley Manning evidently can’t tell the difference.
That’s the X-Box generation for ya.
They called each other “comrade” in their emails. This guy could have stayed anonymous and gotten the same results instead he decided to go public where he could self-aggrandize his narsissistic needs.
The blessing of liberty requires the painful effort of judgment. Letting others tell us what are convictions must be is what got us where we are today.
Do I then gather correctly that you aren't one of those ex-pats who claim that America is going to hell in a handbasket*, that our freedoms are being eroded*, and that - if the s--t should ever hit the fan - one would be better off in some other country.
Rather, I infer that you merely find the cost of living - for retirees - in the Philippines lower.
*) NOTE: I don't claim that our country isn't sliding towards Gomorrah - I just don't think that, in the event of a zombie apocalypse, one would likely be better off elsewhere.
I think the government is getting more compliance than consent. They aren’t even asking for consent any longer. A thug with a gun to your head isn’t likely to get your consent to rob you, but he will damn well get your compliance. The thugs in DC (yes, both wings of the ONE party) don’t care if you consent, you’ll simply comply or die.
“Do I then gather correctly that you aren’t one of those ex-pats who claim that America is going to hell in a handbasket*, that our freedoms are being eroded*, and that - if the s—t should ever hit the fan - one would be better off in some other country.
No you do not gather correctly.....
I do believe that the country of my birth and spent almost 60 years in is going down the tubes.
That was not my reason for leaving at the time. I was interested in exploring other countries, and at that time I had never even heard of Barckus Obumbo.
As I see what is happening there, I can not imagine trying to return and live on my small pension, or live in the hell that is facing the population. Add to that, I now have a wife and child.
We have a very nice and simple life on our beach.
So, you think that the U.S. has "gone farther down the tubes" than the Philippines? That the Philippines (in comparison to the U.S.) is a bastion of moral rectitude, a shrine to free enterprise, and a protector of civil liberties? Elections there are more honest? There is less social unrest? Muslim extremists have less of a foothold there in the Philippines? Acts of terrorism are less frequent? Your 2nd Amendment rights and thus your ability to protect your family in the event of a breakdown of civil order are in better shape than in the U.S.?
Sorry if it sounds like I'm spoiling for a fight, or beating a dead horse, but it's just that countless Freepers (and even others) have, in recent years, been extolling the virtues of foreign lands.
However, if, for you, it's a matter primarily of personal economics (i.e., getting by on a small purse)...
“So, you think that the U.S. has “gone farther down the tubes” than the Philippines?”
You are comparing apples to oranges.
You would say that the Philippines is already down the tubes, but I say that America is rapidly decaying, and no longer resembles the country that I grew up in, and it is going to get worse. I no longer have to make plans and dispose of properties when it becomes too late.
The Philippines is a third world country, and yes there is poverty and corruption.
Philippine politics have little impact on expats, other then those on tourist visas, and for a very small amount of money, one can live a very nice life....a fraction of cost in the USSA. There are months when my wife, child, and myself need over $500 per month, and that includes rent and food. We live on a beach in an apartment with A/C and Sat TV. We have no need or desire for a car. I bicycle to the market every day.
Expats come here to live a life in retirement, not to do business. They are welcomed and live very nice lives here.
Just in my small municipality there are expats from all over the world.
Once on a permanent resident visa, we have little or no contact with the government. The only tax is a VAT tax on what we buy in a store.
I am no longer stuck in the USSA. If SHTF happens here, I can move on, even go back to Europe.
We do not have the government telling us what we must do.
Keep in mind, I do not suggest or recommend the Philippines for American families... husband, wife, and kids.
I rarely even see an American woman here.
For a western man, however, this is paradise.
I know of only one expat, a Swed, married to a local girl from here that was always upset with the culture and the way things were done. He thought Langkawi, Malaysia would be the cat’s meow. Well, he lasted there about a year and got fed up with the Muzies. He is now in the Canary Islands.
As I have posted before, couples would best be suited to think about Central and South America.
There is no heaven on earth, but there sure are some Hells.
America’s illegal immigrant Muzie POTUS will make sure that you live in one.